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Useless Weaver Skills


spectrito.8513

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It's nothing new that there are some less useful skills for Elemenatlist. It has been a problem since launch with only a handful of abilities being truly useful. Its the downside of having 20+ weapon skills on one weapon. Flame Wall and Shatterstone are some of the old skills that come to mind.

Monsoon isn't that bad. It applies a decent amount of chill, as well as some healing. I find it useful to cast in WvW if I stumble into an Air/Water combo. Water has always been the support attunement so its no surprising that the water dual skills lack in power. Pressure Blast, while again not the strongest in terms of damage or healing (still does both), is an AoE Blind as well. I think the casting time on Pressure Blast needs to be reduced just a bit for it to be useful. As for Lahar, yeah that one really isn't all that good. It's fast to cast but the damage is pretty lacking. But its clearly meant to synergize with your other CC skills that would be available, either Frozen Ground or Unsteady Ground.

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@fuzzyp.6295 said:

Monsoon isn't that bad. It applies a decent amount of chill, as well as some healing. I find it useful to cast in WvW if I stumble into an Air/Water combo.

Not really. A skill on 20s cd that only does 1s chill and the regen heal doesnt even apply to yourself even if you try to run into it is pretty useless. Pressure Blast is better and it still sucks because of the long cast time

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@LazySummer.2568 said:

Monsoon isn't that bad. It applies a decent amount of chill, as well as some healing. I find it useful to cast in WvW if I stumble into an Air/Water combo.

Not really. A skill on 20s cd that only does 1s chill and the regen heal doesnt even apply to yourself even if you try to run into it is pretty useless. Pressure Blast is better and it still sucks because of the long cast time

That sums up a lot of ele skills :/ even a thief can apply more chill.

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@LazySummer.2568 said:

Monsoon isn't that bad. It applies a decent amount of chill, as well as some healing. I find it useful to cast in WvW if I stumble into an Air/Water combo.

Not really. A skill on 20s cd that only does 1s chill and the regen heal doesnt even apply to yourself even if you try to run into it is pretty useless. Pressure Blast is better and it still sucks because of the long cast time

While its long cool down sucks, it can still hit many targets over the duration. It pulses at 1/4 second and can hit up to 5 targets per pulse. Its' certainly not an amazing skill by any regard, but in large Zerg v Zerg fights, it can find its use since it can hit plenty of opponents bunched up. Being in Water/Air isn't very useful in general in WvW though, so its not something anyone should attune too for. It's not a very useful skill in PvE, yes.

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@LazySummer.2568 said:

Monsoon isn't that bad. It applies a decent amount of chill, as well as some healing. I find it useful to cast in WvW if I stumble into an Air/Water combo.

Not really. A skill on 20s cd that only does 1s chill and the regen heal doesnt even apply to yourself even if you try to run into it is pretty useless. Pressure Blast is better and it still sucks because of the long cast time

I feel like Moonsoon's ust super buggy. The way it reads from the low numbers and how it specifies interval, it sounds like it should be functioning like warhorn's Lightning Orb that hits multiple times per second (against pve mobs or downed players since it moves so slowly), but instead it only hits once even against someone running away that should be getting struck additional times.

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@zencow.3651 said:

Monsoon isn't that bad. It applies a decent amount of chill, as well as some healing. I find it useful to cast in WvW if I stumble into an Air/Water combo.

Not really. A skill on 20s cd that only does 1s chill and the regen heal doesnt even apply to yourself even if you try to run into it is pretty useless. Pressure Blast is better and it still sucks because of the long cast time

I feel like Moonsoon's ust super buggy. The way it reads from the low numbers and how it specifies interval, it sounds like it should be functioning like warhorn's Lightning Orb that hits multiple times per second (against pve mobs or downed players since it moves so slowly), but instead it only hits once even against someone running away that should be getting struck additional times.

Not sure about enemies, but when you cast it and allies move on top of it, it can stack at least 15 sec of regen per player. That can be lots of condi cleanse with water trait. I was testing weaver build with water instead of arcane and it's actually not bad. Damage output is weaker, but there's a lot of cleanse potential, as well as some aoe heals for backline. Considering that ice spike is one of the strongest skills now, having it on low cooldown is not a bad idea, although it's a bit clunky and slow, making it hard to hit.

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I have no experience in scepter, dagger, but what can i tell you about sword.

  • Water/water 3, cast is too long
  • Water 1, heal is too little
  • Aquatic stance, heal is too little, long cast time, in remember a thread about how bad this skill is.
  • Unravel, i have never used this skill
  • Stone resonance, i really think there are better defensive skills than this one, at least can be used underwater..... i think
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  • 2 weeks later...

@ZeteCommander.4937 said:Far more than these.Sword dual fire 3,dual water 3.Focus fire 4 ,water 4

Let's make a comparisonWinter's Bite(ranger)Damage 550 (1.5)Bleeding 12sChilled 4sWeakness 10sRange 900cast time 0.5s

Freezing Gust(ele)Damage: 83 (0.25)Chilled 3sRange 900cast time 0.5s

This is fair!!!!!

I think you forgot an important part

Recharge time:Winter's Bite: 10sFreezing Gust: 25s

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@ZeteCommander.4937 said:Far more than these.Sword dual fire 3,dual water 3.Focus fire 4 ,water 4

Let's make a comparisonWinter's Bite(ranger)Damage 550 (1.5)Bleeding 12sChilled 4sWeakness 10sRange 900cast time 0.5s

Freezing Gust(ele)Damage: 83 (0.25)Chilled 3sRange 900cast time 0.5s

This is fair!!!!!

Yes, but you are forgetting that ele has more weapon skills, so those skills have to be weaker to balance it out. Because being the squishiest class, having mediocre utilities and elites, having the slowest skills, and needing to invest full on into defense for most of the defensive skills to work is apparently not enough of a drawback.

But seriously, lots of the ele skills have long after casts or delays in addition to the cast time, so Freezing Gust is probably even worse than it seems, compared to Winter's Bite.

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I watched a sword weaver die 13 times doing a Fractal recommended scale last week , and it was molten boss. So at least for PvE, the skill level vs damage is going to be skewed toward low damage (whether due to stats or due to poor performance of using that class). The player likely wasn't using final shielding from Arcane line.

IMO Unravel should be a special skillslot such as F5 , it shouldn't use up a utility slot. Being locked out of your attunements is certain death.

Sword should be higher damage than dagger or staff because realistically it won't be run full damage everything without support or heals; if a trait needs to be tweaked and the damage buffs moved to sword instead of weaver so be it. Also I have the opinion peak damage should be inversely proportional to range , such that sword > dagger > scepter > staff.

The dual attacks have been buffed multiple times so really they need to be reevaluated as major patches are put in.

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@Theros.1390 said:Just make Unravel give Superspeed for 3 sec, and remoove 2 conditions, and then MAYBE it will find a place somewhere. As a US which takes a slot, it does not enough, that's why it's useless.

I think that even with those buff will still be useless.

I need to ask, why do i need to full attune using a utility skill? if i follow a rotation correctly then no matter how good unravel gets, there will not be any moment to use it.

Maybe, just maybe if i play with focus, unravel can be good enough to pull defensive cooldowns quickly.

I really think that unravel have to be totally reworked into another skill.

Now i got an idea: what if unravel, apart from fully attuning elements, reduces the attunement cd to 0?

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@LazySummer.2568 said:

Monsoon isn't that bad. It applies a decent amount of chill, as well as some healing. I find it useful to cast in WvW if I stumble into an Air/Water combo.

Not really. A skill on 20s cd that only does 1s chill and the regen heal doesnt even apply to yourself even if you try to run into it is pretty useless. Pressure Blast is better and it still sucks because of the long cast time

It reapplies regen at a very fast tick-rate which with cleansing water allows cleansing hundreds of conditions as it moves through a group. Gimmicky for sure, but actually the strongest AoE cleanse weaver has right now. As steki and others have confirmed.

Besides... the issue about air water isn't the dual skill. It's the fact that there's no good reason to go water / air ever. OH wait we're talking about PvE where most of the ele skills are useless either way. (Just kidding, not useless.... Merely not worth casting if you know what you're doing. Great RP value!

@Conqueror.3682 said:

@Theros.1390 said:Just make Unravel give Superspeed for 3 sec, and remoove 2 conditions, and then MAYBE it will find a place somewhere. As a US which takes a slot, it does not enough, that's why it's useless.

I think that even with those buff will still be useless.

I need to ask, why do i need to full attune using a utility skill? if i follow a rotation correctly then no matter how good unravel gets, there will not be any moment to use it.

Maybe, just maybe if i play with focus, unravel can be good enough to pull defensive cooldowns quickly.

I really think that unravel have to be totally reworked into another skill.

Now i got an idea: what if unravel, apart from fully attuning elements, reduces the attunement cd to 0?

Instant full attuning to an element lets you bypass 3.2-4s of your rotation AND instantly access the utility skills which most 3 / 4 / 5 skills have. If you think that can /never/ be useful then I think you're naive.

Is it ever going to be more DPS than pure dps utilities? Probably not. But then again, it doesnt need to be.

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@Ganathar.4956 said:Yes, but you are forgetting that ele has more weapon skills, so those skills have to be weaker to balance it out.

I know you are joking, but unfortunately I do believe that Arenanet balance team works like this. They are balancing Elementalist skills around being double the amount other professions have, so they must be weaker, not considering the fact that different attunements have vastly different skills (can't heal in Air, can't CC in Fire, can't deal much damage in Water and so on) and the attunement recharge makes the swap much more clunkier (and slow) than a weapon swap.

@steki.1478 said:Considering that ice spike is one of the strongest skills now, having it on low cooldown is not a bad idea, although it's a bit clunky and slow, making it hard to hit.

I honestly haven't done much testing myself but is Ice Spike really such a high damaging skill? Where has Elementalist fallen...

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@maddoctor.2738 said:I honestly haven't done much testing myself but is Ice Spike really such a high damaging skill? Where has Elementalist fallen...

It hits probably as hard as rev's CoR, but since it's slower and it has aoe indicator, it's much easier to avoid, making it less impactful. Meaning that water spec is still weak compared to air and arcane, but it doesnt hurt having one ele with it.

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@Etheri.5406 said:

Monsoon isn't that bad. It applies a decent amount of chill, as well as some healing. I find it useful to cast in WvW if I stumble into an Air/Water combo.

Not really. A skill on 20s cd that only does 1s chill and the regen heal doesnt even apply to yourself even if you try to run into it is pretty useless. Pressure Blast is better and it still sucks because of the long cast time

It reapplies regen at a very fast tick-rate which with cleansing water allows cleansing hundreds of conditions as it moves through a group. Gimmicky for sure, but actually the strongest AoE cleanse weaver has right now. As steki and others have confirmed.

Would only be decent if support weaver is a thing except it's not, and it still doesn't apply regen to yourself so it's useless. I also wouldn't say hundreds of conditions, maybe 5 or 6 usually while firebrand can do the same thing with much lower cd, no special situation gimmick, and half of those conditions also gets converted to boons instead.

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@LazySummer.2568 said:

@"fuzzyp.6295" said:

Monsoon isn't that bad. It applies a decent amount of chill, as well as some healing. I find it useful to cast in WvW if I stumble into an Air/Water combo.

Not really. A skill on 20s cd that only does 1s chill and the regen heal doesnt even apply to yourself even if you try to run into it is pretty useless. Pressure Blast is better and it still sucks because of the long cast time

It reapplies regen at a very fast tick-rate which with cleansing water allows cleansing hundreds of conditions as it moves through a group. Gimmicky for sure, but actually the strongest AoE cleanse weaver has right now. As steki and others have confirmed.

Would only be decent if support weaver is a thing except it's not, and it still doesn't apply regen to yourself so it's useless. I also wouldn't say hundreds of conditions, maybe 5 or 6 usually while firebrand can do the same thing with much lower cd, no special situation gimmick, and half of those conditions also gets converted to boons instead.

It cleanses 4 condies / second on 5 players on a slow-moving 1.2k range projectile.

I agree "support weaver" isn't a thing but running water traitline on staff ele isn't that new or unheard of. The metabuild during pre-hot pirateship used water/arcana synergy. The main issue is that water/arcana doesn't synergize well with weaver attunement CDs, especially on staff, and you'd lose fire which feelsbadman.

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