July 10, 2018 patch - the last big remaining balance issue (stuns)

First of all, ArenaNet, you people did an amazing job with the "July 10, 2018"-patch for PvP. Damage-wise the game feels roughly the same as it used to be. FANTASTIC JOB!

However, in my opinion there is one big balance issue remaining for PvP that was introduced with the PoF (and HOT). There is too much "Hard CC" in play (stun, fear, knockback, etc).There is one thing that every single player dislikes; to get CC'ed. PoF introduced way too much CC into the PvP scene. While the amount of stun-breaks remained the same as in the original game. Getting stunned for longer durations is incredibly unfun. And there were so many AoE CC skills with long durations introduced in PoF that you cannot bring enough stun-break skills to counter. I genuinly think this game has a CC issue (there is too much of it). Especially with the Holosmith.

To find a solution for the CC issue, first of all, let's look at what situations you want to save CC skills for in PvP:

• Interupt a heal skill
• Interupt a high-damage channeled ability
• Lock down an ennemy who is out of position (to kill him).
• Lock down a low-HP ennemy who is running away (to kill him)
• Preventing a stomp of a downed ally.
• Interrupt an opponent who is resurecting a downed ennemy.
• Push an opponent out of position (off a building, or into your team, away from an objective, etc.)

And that is roughly it. I may have missed some good uses of CC. However, as you can see from the list above, most of the uses are only to "interupt" or "displace" an opponent. Meaning that long duration CC skills are not required in the PvP scene at all. The only CC that needs longer durations is for locking down an ennemy who is out of position. The most suitable skills for this are "Daze" (to prevent teleports) and "Immobilize" (to prevent running away). I'd argue that those last 2 can be considered "Soft CC" (note; I completely disregard slow/cripple/chill in this definition).

So my suggestion to is to normalize CC skills and make their uses less frequent. I'd argue that all CC skills need normalised durations and cooldowns. This suggested change below should make the use of CC-skills more strategic (less spammy), without making stun-break skills invalid:

• Hard CC, single target = ~1,5 sec duration. 30 sec cooldown.
• Hard CC, multi target, Radius<240 = ~1 sec duration, 45 sec cooldown.
• Hard CC, Multi target, radius >240 = ~0,25 sec duration, 45 sec cooldown. (interupt)
• Soft CC, single target = ~2 sec duration, 25 sec cooldown.
• Soft CC, single target = ~0,25 sec duraction, 15 sec cooldown. (interupt)
• Soft CC, multi target = ~1,5 sec duration, 40 sec cooldown.
• (my definitions; Soft CC = Daze & Immobilize, Hard CC = stun, fear, taunt, knockback, etc)
• (The used numbers are mostly extracted from Vanilla-necromancer skills, with a +50% cooldown increase and -25% duration reduction)

To repeat my earlier statement. Getting CC'ed is incredibly unfun (although required for a healthy PvP game). Increasing the cooldowns of hard CC (and reducing the durations of AoE CC) should greatly improve the amount of fun that players will have in PvP. This is what I hope to achieve with this post.

To list some of the problematic CC that the game currently contains (in my opinion):

• Holographic shockwave -> 15 sec cooldown, large AoE, 2 sec duration hard CC.
• Entangle -> 9 sec immobilize.
• Jacaranda's Embrace -> 9 sec immobilize, 20 sec cooldown
• Hunter's Ward -> 5 sec immobillize, large AoE (the duration is way too long, immobilize cannot be removed, the warning animation of this skill does not always run)
• Expertise should no longer increase the duration of immobilize and fear effects.
• Holosmith has access to too many Hard CC skills.

For reference (in case anyone cares), I am just a casual player with no interest in the competitive scene at all. The only class I play is Core-Necro/Reaper. I love this game with all my heart. The PvP of this game is by far the best that I know of. I keep comming back after every balance patch, only to realise that PvP still isn't as fun as before the PoF release. And then I just quit playing again, awaiting the next patch.

Im interested to know in the opinions everyone else regarding the topic of hard/soft CC in Guild Wars 2.Kind regards,Sgt. Scrappy.

Hunters Ward? HahahaThe skill doesn't even immobilize, it counts as a ward. It has almost a 3 second cast-time and half of the time you can just walk out of the chains anyway.I feel like you didn't list the actual problematic CCs in Overcharged Shot, being near instant. Prime Light Beam being unblockable, Full Counter being unblockable, Point Blank Shot being near instant (and often unblockable).Even Necro torch not being LoSable.Jacaranda and Entangle is annoying at most, hardly overpowered.

I agree that the game need to be toned down a little bit...i may be a little biased, cause i am playing Guard right now, but I would hardly consider Hunters Ward a problematic skill, far from it actually, considering the whole DH longbow kit, i would say its a little underpowered, really rare accasions you can use the skill without putting yourself in a bad situation...Rangers immobiles are annoying as hell for sure, and Engi(Holo) CCs are way to abusive, the shockwave kind of remenbers me of old Hammer war, but hammer war with super steroids, its not even fun lol, not sure why Anet gave Holo more range on basically all their attack(Auto included) them other melees specs, its not like Holo dosent have a low cooldown mobility skill to keep himself near the target allready anyway, and to add assault to injury, you give them a long radius AoE skill...why Anet?

it not last.There are too many condition remove，The condition damage can't be used at all（except several professions）

** for reference, The specific skills that I personally find too good have to do with their CC duration. I play a necromancer, so my defensive options are barely existent. Getting hit by a 5sec immobilize in a fight usually means certain death for my class.As for Entangle, a necromancer can only transfer conditions , but not remove them (only Consume Conditions can remove). So as a necro am unable to get rid of an entangle immobilize when my transfer skills get blocked, the wrong conditions get transfered, or when I dont have vision. I had a game once where some guy hit me with entangle just as I fell off a rock. I was stuck for 9 seconds behind that rock. That feels like an eternity while in the heat of a teamfight. By the time I was finally free, half my team was already dead. (gosh I was irritated after that incident).

But I can understand that from the perspective of other classes, those skills that I listed are no more than a minor nuisance.

The Chronomancer "Gravity well" is another one of those skills that I find too strong. That one totals a 3sec hard CC, and it can be cast 2x in succession with the chronomancer ability reset skill.

The overabundance of all kinds of CC has been indicated before, but Anet won't really listen to it.

@"Sgt Scrappy.3965" said:First of all, ArenaNet, you people did an amazing job with the "July 10, 2018"-patch for PvP. Damage-wise the game feels roughly the same as it used to be. FANTASTIC JOB!

• Holographic shockwave -> 15 sec cooldown, large AoE, 2 sec duration hard CC.
• Holosmith has access to too many Hard CC skills.

I agree! I think we're in the most balanced state since Pre-HoT, and that's fantastic to see.

I agree there's a bit too much CC, but I wanted to offer a Holo's perspective on how I think ours can be toned down. Currently, Holo only has access to two hard CCs, (that no other engi has access to), and they both have major wind-ups, so I don't think they're a MASSIVE issue.

On shockwave, the cooldown is fine, but the radius needs to be shaved to 350. The duration is also fine, there's significant wind-up, heat gain and it feels like there's real aftercast.

I feel like the laser beam is also fine. It's got a 60-second cooldown and a 2-second wind-up.

I totally agree it's frustrating to get chain-cc'd, but since that's a weakness for some classes, it's the only way to beat them. As a holo, I'd have an issue with ANY necro if I couldn't cc them at least a little. They are super powerful when they're able to free-cast.

Interesting topic overall. Those are just my 2C

@"Sgt Scrappy.3965" said:First of all, ArenaNet, you people did an amazing job with the "July 10, 2018"-patch for PvP. Damage-wise the game feels roughly the same as it used to be. FANTASTIC JOB!

However, in my opinion there is one big balance issue remaining for PvP that was introduced with the PoF (and HOT). There is too much "Hard CC" in play (stun, fear, knockback, etc).There is one thing that every single player dislikes; to get CC'ed. PoF introduced way too much CC into the PvP scene. While the amount of stun-breaks remained the same as in the original game. Getting stunned for longer durations is incredibly unfun. And there were so many AoE CC skills with long durations introduced in PoF that you cannot bring enough stun-break skills to counter. I genuinly think this game has a CC issue (there is too much of it). Especially with the Holosmith.

To find a solution for the CC issue, first of all, let's look at what situations you want to save CC skills for in PvP:

• Interupt a heal skill
• Interupt a high-damage channeled ability
• Lock down an ennemy who is out of position (to kill him).
• Lock down a low-HP ennemy who is running away (to kill him)
• Preventing a stomp of a downed ally.
• Interrupt an opponent who is resurecting a downed ennemy.
• Push an opponent out of position (off a building, or into your team, away from an objective, etc.)

And that is roughly it. I may have missed some good uses of CC. However, as you can see from the list above, most of the uses are only to "interupt" or "displace" an opponent. Meaning that long duration CC skills are not required in the PvP scene at all. The only CC that needs longer durations is for locking down an ennemy who is out of position. The most suitable skills for this are "Daze" (to prevent teleports) and "Immobilize" (to prevent running away). I'd argue that those last 2 can be considered "Soft CC" (note; I completely disregard slow/cripple/chill in this definition).

So my suggestion to is to normalize CC skills and make their uses less frequent. I'd argue that all CC skills need normalised durations and cooldowns. This suggested change below should make the use of CC-skills more strategic (less spammy), without making stun-break skills invalid:

• Hard CC, single target = ~1,5 sec duration. 30 sec cooldown.
• Hard CC, multi target, Radius<240 = ~1 sec duration, 45 sec cooldown.
• Hard CC, Multi target, radius >240 = ~0,25 sec duration, 45 sec cooldown. (interupt)
• Soft CC, single target = ~2 sec duration, 25 sec cooldown.
• Soft CC, single target = ~0,25 sec duraction, 15 sec cooldown. (interupt)
• Soft CC, multi target = ~1,5 sec duration, 40 sec cooldown.
• (my definitions; Soft CC = Daze & Immobilize, Hard CC = stun, fear, taunt, knockback, etc)
• (The used numbers are mostly extracted from Vanilla-necromancer skills, with a +50% cooldown increase and -25% duration reduction)

To repeat my earlier statement. Getting CC'ed is incredibly unfun (although required for a healthy PvP game). Increasing the cooldowns of hard CC (and reducing the durations of AoE CC) should greatly improve the amount of fun that players will have in PvP. This is what I hope to achieve with this post.

To list some of the problematic CC that the game currently contains (in my opinion):

• Holographic shockwave -> 15 sec cooldown, large AoE, 2 sec duration hard CC.
• Entangle -> 9 sec immobilize.
• Jacaranda's Embrace -> 9 sec immobilize, 20 sec cooldown
• Hunter's Ward -> 5 sec immobillize, large AoE (the duration is way too long, immobilize cannot be removed, the warning animation of this skill does not always run)
• Expertise should no longer increase the duration of immobilize and fear effects.
• Holosmith has access to too many Hard CC skills.

For reference (in case anyone cares), I am just a casual player with no interest in the competitive scene at all. The only class I play is Core-Necro/Reaper. I love this game with all my heart. The PvP of this game is by far the best that I know of. I keep comming back after every balance patch, only to realise that PvP still isn't as fun as before the PoF release. And then I just quit playing again, awaiting the next patch.

Im interested to know in the opinions everyone else regarding the topic of hard/soft CC in Guild Wars 2.Kind regards,Sgt. Scrappy.

I think your cooldown numbers are awfully high there. Consider Engi's Glue Shot - 1.5s aoe immobilize + cripple field, 900 range, unblockable slow projectile. This is considered one of the worst skills in the game right now, and it's half the cooldown of what you suggest for similar skills. Consider Warrior's Shield Bash - a very fair 2-second single-target stun with an obvious tell to dodge. That's on a 20s cooldown and you suggest 30?

• Holo Shockwave's cc duration isn't too bad. It's more that it covers too much distance. The animation suggests that you ought to be able to avoid it by just moving out of range, but the shockwave keeps going long past the point where you think you should be safe.
• Entangle - this and Ancient Seeds and Jacaranda and similar immobs are either a guaranteed kill or completely useless. It just depends whether your class/build has condi cleanse or immob break on movement-skill/dodge. If you don't though, it lasts an eternity and you are probably dead.
• Holo doesn't really have much more CC than base engi. It's probably about the same. You just notice it more because base engi doesn't do as much damage while you're knocked back. Again, Prime Light Beam really isn't bad considering its cooldown and wind-up animation. The main problem with it is it's unblockable and it tracks the target with no red line to dodge. From the way it looks, it seems it should be a ground-targeted aoe that can by avoided by moving out of the line of fire. Instead, it tracks the target, so no amount of strafing will save you. Even moving completely behind the attacking engi isn't enough. It's unblockable too, so you MUST dodge it or else probably die right there.

@coro.3176 said:

@"Sgt Scrappy.3965" said:First of all, ArenaNet, you people did an amazing job with the "July 10, 2018"-patch for PvP. Damage-wise the game feels roughly the same as it used to be. FANTASTIC JOB!

However, in my opinion there is one big balance issue remaining for PvP that was introduced with the PoF (and HOT). There is too much "Hard CC" in play (stun, fear, knockback, etc).There is one thing that every single player dislikes; to get CC'ed. PoF introduced way too much CC into the PvP scene. While the amount of stun-breaks remained the same as in the original game. Getting stunned for longer durations is incredibly unfun. And there were so many AoE CC skills with long durations introduced in PoF that you cannot bring enough stun-break skills to counter. I genuinly think this game has a CC issue (there is too much of it). Especially with the Holosmith.

To find a solution for the CC issue, first of all, let's look at what situations you want to save CC skills for in PvP:

• Interupt a heal skill
• Interupt a high-damage channeled ability
• Lock down an ennemy who is out of position (to kill him).
• Lock down a low-HP ennemy who is running away (to kill him)
• Preventing a stomp of a downed ally.
• Interrupt an opponent who is resurecting a downed ennemy.
• Push an opponent out of position (off a building, or into your team, away from an objective, etc.)

And that is roughly it. I may have missed some good uses of CC. However, as you can see from the list above, most of the uses are only to "interupt" or "displace" an opponent. Meaning that long duration CC skills are not required in the PvP scene at all. The only CC that needs longer durations is for locking down an ennemy who is out of position. The most suitable skills for this are "Daze" (to prevent teleports) and "Immobilize" (to prevent running away). I'd argue that those last 2 can be considered "Soft CC" (note; I completely disregard slow/cripple/chill in this definition).

So my suggestion to is to normalize CC skills and make their uses less frequent. I'd argue that all CC skills need normalised durations and cooldowns. This suggested change below should make the use of CC-skills more strategic (less spammy), without making stun-break skills invalid:

• Hard CC, single target = ~1,5 sec duration. 30 sec cooldown.
• Hard CC, multi target, Radius<240 = ~1 sec duration, 45 sec cooldown.
• Hard CC, Multi target, radius >240 = ~0,25 sec duration, 45 sec cooldown. (interupt)
• Soft CC, single target = ~2 sec duration, 25 sec cooldown.
• Soft CC, single target = ~0,25 sec duraction, 15 sec cooldown. (interupt)
• Soft CC, multi target = ~1,5 sec duration, 40 sec cooldown.
• (my definitions; Soft CC = Daze & Immobilize, Hard CC = stun, fear, taunt, knockback, etc)
• (The used numbers are mostly extracted from Vanilla-necromancer skills, with a +50% cooldown increase and -25% duration reduction)

To repeat my earlier statement. Getting CC'ed is incredibly unfun (although required for a healthy PvP game). Increasing the cooldowns of hard CC (and reducing the durations of AoE CC) should greatly improve the amount of fun that players will have in PvP. This is what I hope to achieve with this post.

To list some of the problematic CC that the game currently contains (in my opinion):

• Holographic shockwave -> 15 sec cooldown, large AoE, 2 sec duration hard CC.
• Entangle -> 9 sec immobilize.
• Jacaranda's Embrace -> 9 sec immobilize, 20 sec cooldown
• Hunter's Ward -> 5 sec immobillize, large AoE (the duration is way too long, immobilize cannot be removed, the warning animation of this skill does not always run)
• Expertise should no longer increase the duration of immobilize and fear effects.
• Holosmith has access to too many Hard CC skills.

For reference (in case anyone cares), I am just a casual player with no interest in the competitive scene at all. The only class I play is Core-Necro/Reaper. I love this game with all my heart. The PvP of this game is by far the best that I know of. I keep comming back after every balance patch, only to realise that PvP still isn't as fun as before the PoF release. And then I just quit playing again, awaiting the next patch.

Im interested to know in the opinions everyone else regarding the topic of hard/soft CC in Guild Wars 2.Kind regards,Sgt. Scrappy.

• Holo Shockwave's cc duration isn't too bad. It's more that it covers too much distance. The animation suggests that you ought to be able to avoid it by just moving out of range, but the shockwave keeps going long past the point where you think you should be safe.
• Entangle - this and Ancient Seeds and Jacaranda and similar immobs are either a guaranteed kill or completely useless. It just depends whether your class/build has condi cleanse or immob break on movement-skill/dodge. If you don't though, it lasts an eternity and you are probably dead.
• Holo doesn't really have much more CC than base engi. It's probably about the same. You just notice it more because base engi doesn't do as much damage while you're knocked back. Again, Prime Light Beam really isn't bad considering its cooldown and wind-up animation. The main problem with it is it's unblockable and it tracks the target with no red line to dodge. From the way it looks, it seems it should be a ground-targeted aoe that can by avoided by
  moving out of the line of fire
  . Instead, it tracks the target, so no amount of strafing will save you. Even moving completely behind the attacking engi isn't enough. It's unblockable too, so you MUST dodge it or else probably die right there.

Its like we were writing our posts at the same time lol.

P.S. I think GW2 needs skills with better tracking like Prime Light Beam. They add to the overall skill of the game in my opinion. Less of a crapshoot. I LOVE queuing up my prime light beam for when a mesmer or thief has stealthed, then using my targeting to get them right when they pop out of stealth. Surprises them 8/10 times. My timing is correct 6/10 times xD.

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@coro.3176 said:

@"Sgt Scrappy.3965" said:First of all, ArenaNet, you people did an amazing job with the "July 10, 2018"-patch for PvP. Damage-wise the game feels roughly the same as it used to be. FANTASTIC JOB!

However, in my opinion there is one big balance issue remaining for PvP that was introduced with the PoF (and HOT). There is too much "Hard CC" in play (stun, fear, knockback, etc).There is one thing that every single player dislikes; to get CC'ed. PoF introduced way too much CC into the PvP scene. While the amount of stun-breaks remained the same as in the original game. Getting stunned for longer durations is incredibly unfun. And there were so many AoE CC skills with long durations introduced in PoF that you cannot bring enough stun-break skills to counter. I genuinly think this game has a CC issue (there is too much of it). Especially with the Holosmith.

To find a solution for the CC issue, first of all, let's look at what situations you want to save CC skills for in PvP:

• Interupt a heal skill
• Interupt a high-damage channeled ability
• Lock down an ennemy who is out of position (to kill him).
• Lock down a low-HP ennemy who is running away (to kill him)
• Preventing a stomp of a downed ally.
• Interrupt an opponent who is resurecting a downed ennemy.
• Push an opponent out of position (off a building, or into your team, away from an objective, etc.)

And that is roughly it. I may have missed some good uses of CC. However, as you can see from the list above, most of the uses are only to "interupt" or "displace" an opponent. Meaning that long duration CC skills are not required in the PvP scene at all. The only CC that needs longer durations is for locking down an ennemy who is out of position. The most suitable skills for this are "Daze" (to prevent teleports) and "Immobilize" (to prevent running away). I'd argue that those last 2 can be considered "Soft CC" (note; I completely disregard slow/cripple/chill in this definition).

So my suggestion to is to normalize CC skills and make their uses less frequent. I'd argue that all CC skills need normalised durations and cooldowns. This suggested change below should make the use of CC-skills more strategic (less spammy), without making stun-break skills invalid:

• Hard CC, single target = ~1,5 sec duration. 30 sec cooldown.
• Hard CC, multi target, Radius<240 = ~1 sec duration, 45 sec cooldown.
• Hard CC, Multi target, radius >240 = ~0,25 sec duration, 45 sec cooldown. (interupt)
• Soft CC, single target = ~2 sec duration, 25 sec cooldown.
• Soft CC, single target = ~0,25 sec duraction, 15 sec cooldown. (interupt)
• Soft CC, multi target = ~1,5 sec duration, 40 sec cooldown.
• (my definitions; Soft CC = Daze & Immobilize, Hard CC = stun, fear, taunt, knockback, etc)
• (The used numbers are mostly extracted from Vanilla-necromancer skills, with a +50% cooldown increase and -25% duration reduction)

To repeat my earlier statement. Getting CC'ed is incredibly unfun (although required for a healthy PvP game). Increasing the cooldowns of hard CC (and reducing the durations of AoE CC) should greatly improve the amount of fun that players will have in PvP. This is what I hope to achieve with this post.

To list some of the problematic CC that the game currently contains (in my opinion):

• Holographic shockwave -> 15 sec cooldown, large AoE, 2 sec duration hard CC.
• Entangle -> 9 sec immobilize.
• Jacaranda's Embrace -> 9 sec immobilize, 20 sec cooldown
• Hunter's Ward -> 5 sec immobillize, large AoE (the duration is way too long, immobilize cannot be removed, the warning animation of this skill does not always run)
• Expertise should no longer increase the duration of immobilize and fear effects.
• Holosmith has access to too many Hard CC skills.

For reference (in case anyone cares), I am just a casual player with no interest in the competitive scene at all. The only class I play is Core-Necro/Reaper. I love this game with all my heart. The PvP of this game is by far the best that I know of. I keep comming back after every balance patch, only to realise that PvP still isn't as fun as before the PoF release. And then I just quit playing again, awaiting the next patch.

Im interested to know in the opinions everyone else regarding the topic of hard/soft CC in Guild Wars 2.Kind regards,Sgt. Scrappy.

• Holo Shockwave's cc duration isn't too bad. It's more that it covers too much distance. The animation suggests that you ought to be able to avoid it by just moving out of range, but the shockwave keeps going long past the point where you think you should be safe.
• Entangle - this and Ancient Seeds and Jacaranda and similar immobs are either a guaranteed kill or completely useless. It just depends whether your class/build has condi cleanse or immob break on movement-skill/dodge. If you don't though, it lasts an eternity and you are probably dead.
• Holo doesn't really have much more CC than base engi. It's probably about the same. You just notice it more because base engi doesn't do as much damage while you're knocked back. Again, Prime Light Beam really isn't bad considering its cooldown and wind-up animation. The main problem with it is it's unblockable and it tracks the target with no red line to dodge. From the way it looks, it seems it should be a ground-targeted aoe that can by avoided by
  moving out of the line of fire
  . Instead, it tracks the target, so no amount of strafing will save you. Even moving completely behind the attacking engi isn't enough. It's unblockable too, so you MUST dodge it or else probably die right there.

See, I think it'd be more skillful and satisfying if it was a ground-targeted line instead of an auto-locking one. It takes more skill to predict where your opponent is going to be in 1 second and hit them. To compensate for the extra targeting difficulty, I'd knock some milliseconds off the cast time (down to maybe 0.75 or 1s).

@coro.3176 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@coro.3176 said:

@"Sgt Scrappy.3965" said:First of all, ArenaNet, you people did an amazing job with the "July 10, 2018"-patch for PvP. Damage-wise the game feels roughly the same as it used to be. FANTASTIC JOB!

However, in my opinion there is one big balance issue remaining for PvP that was introduced with the PoF (and HOT). There is too much "Hard CC" in play (stun, fear, knockback, etc).There is one thing that every single player dislikes; to get CC'ed. PoF introduced way too much CC into the PvP scene. While the amount of stun-breaks remained the same as in the original game. Getting stunned for longer durations is incredibly unfun. And there were so many AoE CC skills with long durations introduced in PoF that you cannot bring enough stun-break skills to counter. I genuinly think this game has a CC issue (there is too much of it). Especially with the Holosmith.

To find a solution for the CC issue, first of all, let's look at what situations you want to save CC skills for in PvP:

• Interupt a heal skill
• Interupt a high-damage channeled ability
• Lock down an ennemy who is out of position (to kill him).
• Lock down a low-HP ennemy who is running away (to kill him)
• Preventing a stomp of a downed ally.
• Interrupt an opponent who is resurecting a downed ennemy.
• Push an opponent out of position (off a building, or into your team, away from an objective, etc.)

And that is roughly it. I may have missed some good uses of CC. However, as you can see from the list above, most of the uses are only to "interupt" or "displace" an opponent. Meaning that long duration CC skills are not required in the PvP scene at all. The only CC that needs longer durations is for locking down an ennemy who is out of position. The most suitable skills for this are "Daze" (to prevent teleports) and "Immobilize" (to prevent running away). I'd argue that those last 2 can be considered "Soft CC" (note; I completely disregard slow/cripple/chill in this definition).

So my suggestion to is to normalize CC skills and make their uses less frequent. I'd argue that all CC skills need normalised durations and cooldowns. This suggested change below should make the use of CC-skills more strategic (less spammy), without making stun-break skills invalid:

• Hard CC, single target = ~1,5 sec duration. 30 sec cooldown.
• Hard CC, multi target, Radius<240 = ~1 sec duration, 45 sec cooldown.
• Hard CC, Multi target, radius >240 = ~0,25 sec duration, 45 sec cooldown. (interupt)
• Soft CC, single target = ~2 sec duration, 25 sec cooldown.
• Soft CC, single target = ~0,25 sec duraction, 15 sec cooldown. (interupt)
• Soft CC, multi target = ~1,5 sec duration, 40 sec cooldown.
• (my definitions; Soft CC = Daze & Immobilize, Hard CC = stun, fear, taunt, knockback, etc)
• (The used numbers are mostly extracted from Vanilla-necromancer skills, with a +50% cooldown increase and -25% duration reduction)

To repeat my earlier statement. Getting CC'ed is incredibly unfun (although required for a healthy PvP game). Increasing the cooldowns of hard CC (and reducing the durations of AoE CC) should greatly improve the amount of fun that players will have in PvP. This is what I hope to achieve with this post.

To list some of the problematic CC that the game currently contains (in my opinion):

• Holographic shockwave -> 15 sec cooldown, large AoE, 2 sec duration hard CC.
• Entangle -> 9 sec immobilize.
• Jacaranda's Embrace -> 9 sec immobilize, 20 sec cooldown
• Hunter's Ward -> 5 sec immobillize, large AoE (the duration is way too long, immobilize cannot be removed, the warning animation of this skill does not always run)
• Expertise should no longer increase the duration of immobilize and fear effects.
• Holosmith has access to too many Hard CC skills.

For reference (in case anyone cares), I am just a casual player with no interest in the competitive scene at all. The only class I play is Core-Necro/Reaper. I love this game with all my heart. The PvP of this game is by far the best that I know of. I keep comming back after every balance patch, only to realise that PvP still isn't as fun as before the PoF release. And then I just quit playing again, awaiting the next patch.

Im interested to know in the opinions everyone else regarding the topic of hard/soft CC in Guild Wars 2.Kind regards,Sgt. Scrappy.

• Holo Shockwave's cc duration isn't too bad. It's more that it covers too much distance. The animation suggests that you ought to be able to avoid it by just moving out of range, but the shockwave keeps going long past the point where you think you should be safe.
• Entangle - this and Ancient Seeds and Jacaranda and similar immobs are either a guaranteed kill or completely useless. It just depends whether your class/build has condi cleanse or immob break on movement-skill/dodge. If you don't though, it lasts an eternity and you are probably dead.
• Holo doesn't really have much more CC than base engi. It's probably about the same. You just notice it more because base engi doesn't do as much damage while you're knocked back. Again, Prime Light Beam really isn't bad considering its cooldown and wind-up animation. The main problem with it is it's unblockable and it tracks the target with no red line to dodge. From the way it looks, it seems it should be a ground-targeted aoe that can by avoided by
  moving out of the line of fire
  . Instead, it tracks the target, so no amount of strafing will save you. Even moving completely behind the attacking engi isn't enough. It's unblockable too, so you MUST dodge it or else probably die right there.

Would agree as long as it's not like anet's current ground targeted skills: you're locked into that pathing once you let go. I'd like to be able to move my aim pathing while it's charging up until it fires. That's the only way I think it becomes even more skillful.

Presently, no skills do this.

@coro.3176 said:I think your cooldown numbers are awfully high there. Consider Engi's Glue Shot - 1.5s aoe immobilize + cripple field, 900 range, unblockable slow projectile. This is considered one of the worst skills in the game right now, and it's half the cooldown of what you suggest for similar skills. Consider Warrior's Shield Bash - a very fair 2-second single-target stun with an obvious tell to dodge. That's on a 20s cooldown and you suggest 30?

• Holo Shockwave's cc duration isn't too bad. It's more that it covers too much distance. The animation suggests that you ought to be able to avoid it by just moving out of range, but the shockwave keeps going long past the point where you think you should be safe.
• Entangle - this and Ancient Seeds and Jacaranda and similar immobs are either a guaranteed kill or completely useless. It just depends whether your class/build has condi cleanse or immob break on movement-skill/dodge. If you don't though, it lasts an eternity and you are probably dead.
• Holo doesn't really have much more CC than base engi. It's probably about the same. You just notice it more because base engi doesn't do as much damage while you're knocked back. Again, Prime Light Beam really isn't bad considering its cooldown and wind-up animation. The main problem with it is it's unblockable and it tracks the target with no red line to dodge. From the way it looks, it seems it should be a ground-targeted aoe that can by avoided by moving out of the line of fire. Instead, it tracks the target, so no amount of strafing will save you. Even moving completely behind the attacking engi isn't enough. It's unblockable too, so you MUST dodge it or else probably die right there.

I am proposing to indeed increase all stun cooldowns by 50%. Because I think it would make the game more fun. Why is it needed to have stuns on short 20-sec cooldowns? The game would not be affected by longer cooldowns on CC. A poorly placed stun will just get dodged or stun-breaks will be applied. A good stun shuts a player down super hard. Having longer cooldowns would force players to be more strategic with their stun-skills to play efficiently (but longer cooldowns would not harm the effectiveness of good players). However when looking at if from the other side of the screen, getting stunned on a short cooldown is not fun all. So I genuinly think that a cooldown increase on all stun skills would make the game more fun.

• *Please do not mis-understand. I am proposing big stun-skil cooldown increases for my class (necro) as well (mostly the expertise change).
• *Regarding Glue shot, do not regard it as bad. Regard it as a teamplay option that you have. Hitting it at the right time and space will allow for you and your team to catch an opponent with his pants down, and it will have a massive impact on your game. The use of this skilll is just situational, you do not have to use it. But having it available as an option is fantastic IMO!
• *For Holo shockwave, yes I agree with you. Personally I would also propose either to make it either an interupt effect (0,25sec daze) at current massive AoE range and short cooldown, or a smaller range AoE stun (with a longer cooldown).
• *For entangle, you hit the mark perfectly. Either you can deal with it, or this single skill will cause you to die. This skill is way too strong in its current state.
• *Prime light beam; I didn't even know that :). That sounds really good for a high-damage CC skill :O. My dodge skills are pretty poor, I'm just a casual player, so I don't know the animations of skills. The only classes that I do research on are the ones that hard-counter me. So really the only classes that I know the skills of are the ranger (got poison cloud in my utility skills to counter their range) and the thief (I cant beat them at all XD).

EDIT: formatting

@"Mbelch.9028" said:

I totally agree it's frustrating to get chain-cc'd, but since that's a weakness for some classes, it's the only way to beat them. As a holo, I'd have an issue with ANY necro if I couldn't cc them at least a little. They are super powerful when they're able to free-cast.

I completely agree with you too. Having stuns and interupts is healty for a PvP game, just not too much. If my proposed changes were to ever happen (LOL no way), then the engineer should have some access to "interupt skills" (short cooldown 0,25 sec dazes), just 1 skill would be enough. That should allow you to deal with casters such as necromancers. However, there is no need for long stun durations to shut a necro down. Plus you'd still have your regular stuns to deal with the necro (just on a longer cooldown after use).