Update on Swiss and On-Demand ATs?

It's been over 6 months since we last had an update on these things. (A real update)Multiple Living Story maps has been pushed out, fractals, a new mount and even a legendary item. Pvp has had nothing in the past half year, except for overpowered builds ruining the experience.With all these threads about returning DuoQ, putting a few extra people on the new ATs might not be the dumbest thing for you guys.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Swiss:There hasn't been much to update. Work continues, it's just been more complicated than we hoped. But a lot of progress has been made in the last couple weeks. Sometime in the next few weeks, we'll have another update to the tournament backend systems that should be mostly invisible to you. But it will contain a lot of the things needed by swiss.

On-Demand AT's:This has been pushed to after swiss. It unfortunately needed more UI work than we originally hoped.

Bonus update: Special Tournaments:The server work mentioned in the above swiss section is also needed for special tournaments.

Thanks for the update.

Do you have anything else planned for PvP and/or a time frame for when Swiss will be completed?

Thanks Ben for replying,and I’m sure the little staff dedicated to pvp is trying and to give you guys credit when you do come out with balance changes they have been in the right direction for awhile now.That being said pvp hasn’t had a pvp map in over 3 years and we have been giving any content since before PoF with the release of AT’s which isn’t unique content since it consist of the same gamemodes/maps everyone’s played forever.

The core problem to pvp primarily and I guess gw2 is population.Without content or an incentive to actually get good people move on to other games/gamemodes.This makes the matchmaker work harder and I’m sure you’re aware of the rest.

Thank you again Ben for trying I love you

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Skittledness.5106 said:Thanks Ben for replying,and I’m sure the little staff dedicated to pvp is trying and to give you guys credit when you do come out with balance changes they have been in the right direction for awhile now.That being said pvp hasn’t had a pvp map in over 3 years and we have been giving any content since before PoF with the release of AT’s which isn’t unique content since it consist of the same gamemodes/maps everyone’s played forever.

The core problem to pvp primarily and I guess gw2 is population.Without content or an incentive to actually get good people move on to other games/gamemodes.This makes the matchmaker work harder and I’m sure you’re aware of the rest.

Thank you again Ben for trying I love you

That new map for custom arenas sounds really fun. Hopefully if it does well you would consider making it a new gamemode. Coming from GW1, the variety was amazing. In my opinion, one of the biggest issues with PvP is the lack of gamemodes. If you don't like Conquest, you're out of luck. Gamemodes like 2v2, 3v3, 5v5/10v10 deathmatch, etc. etc. would be absolutely amazing and a very good incentive for a lot of people to come back to play. Of course, only if we can play with our friends.

Asides from that, I have one other very important question. Has Anet seen the concerns for bringing duo/team que back and would it be possible to test them again for a single season?

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Skittledness.5106 said:Thanks Ben for replying,and I’m sure the little staff dedicated to pvp is trying and to give you guys credit when you do come out with balance changes they have been in the right direction for awhile now.That being said pvp hasn’t had a pvp map in over 3 years and we have been giving any content since before PoF with the release of AT’s which isn’t unique content since it consist of the same gamemodes/maps everyone’s played forever.

The core problem to pvp primarily and I guess gw2 is population.Without content or an incentive to actually get good people move on to other games/gamemodes.This makes the matchmaker work harder and I’m sure you’re aware of the rest.

Thank you again Ben for trying I love you

Not sure if you're aware, but back before PvP was solo/duo queue, people just whined and whined and whined constantly on the forums about getting stomped by a pre-made 5-person group. Now that we have solo/duo, people just whine about that.

Lesson? People whine about everything. The devs can't please everyone. At least they're developing new things, even if it takes an inexplicably long time. Yay pvp team!

@coro.3176 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Skittledness.5106 said:Thanks Ben for replying,and I’m sure the little staff dedicated to pvp is trying and to give you guys credit when you do come out with balance changes they have been in the right direction for awhile now.That being said pvp hasn’t had a pvp map in over 3 years and we have been giving any content since before PoF with the release of AT’s which isn’t unique content since it consist of the same gamemodes/maps everyone’s played forever.

The core problem to pvp primarily and I guess gw2 is population.Without content or an incentive to actually get good people move on to other games/gamemodes.This makes the matchmaker work harder and I’m sure you’re aware of the rest.

Thank you again Ben for trying I love you

I'm aware. I played solo even when team ques were a thing and still maintained a 65% win ratio. Never had an issue with it.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Skittledness.5106 said:Thanks Ben for replying,and I’m sure the little staff dedicated to pvp is trying and to give you guys credit when you do come out with balance changes they have been in the right direction for awhile now.That being said pvp hasn’t had a pvp map in over 3 years and we have been giving any content since before PoF with the release of AT’s which isn’t unique content since it consist of the same gamemodes/maps everyone’s played forever.

The core problem to pvp primarily and I guess gw2 is population.Without content or an incentive to actually get good people move on to other games/gamemodes.This makes the matchmaker work harder and I’m sure you’re aware of the rest.

Thank you again Ben for trying I love you

its pretty fucking clear they are intentionally ignoring this question....

I shall take my unpleasantness to pve or wvw and kill my allies and violate thier corpse with spew and siege. im sure theyll be as thrilled as I am mwahaha

you can't revive the dead winky face.

by the time all this content comes out there wont be any people left playing. i like that your working on things but this is crazy slow. talk to your boss plz. maybe this swiss thing is not even worth the trouble, go help them make another living story map or something

@"coro.3176" said:

Not sure if you're aware, but back before PvP was solo/duo queue, people just whined and whined and whined constantly on the forums about getting stomped by a pre-made 5-person group. Now that we have solo/duo, people just whine about that.

Lesson? People whine about everything. The devs can't please everyone. At least they're developing new things, even if it takes an inexplicably long time. Yay pvp team!

It's probably two different groups of PvP'ers whining each time, but you're right. The system as it currently stands basically always has one side being unhappy. I think there needs to be a major overhaul of Ranked PvP.

Firstly, drop Unranked and Ranked Queues. Unranked tends to be all but abandoned during Seasons (and of late, Seasons have been running near-constantly with only a couple weeks downtime in between), since why would you ever play Unranked when you can get more rewards for the same thing in Ranked? Change it back to Solo and Team Queues, so that players who want to just jump in with 9 other randos and players who want to challenge other pre-made teams can both get what they want.

Now, the problem with Solo/Team Queues in the past was that VERY few players were doing Team Queues compared to Solo Queues, resulting 30min+ wait times for some people, depending on the hour. To fix this, I suggest creating a new opt-in PvP option that reads: "Allow me to be matched against Team Queues while Solo Queuing". To create incentive for Solo Queuers to tick this option, Solo Queuers who are placed in a match with Team Queuers get DOUBLE the rewards (in PvP XP, reward track progress, and pips) of what they would have normally got while Solo Queuing.

This neatly solves the problem of low pop in Team Queues, since I can guarantee that you will have no shortage of PvP players who don't really care if they win or lose a match as long as they think the rewards was worth their time. (The fact that you won't know if you're in a Team or Solo match should still incentivize players to do their best. Why get 6 pips if you could get 20 pips?) Players who absolutely do not want to face pre-mades still won't do so if they never tick that option, and if you are a pre-made team who doesn't want to get clueless (or leeching) randos on your team, you can always form a 5-man team and go in, thereby ensuring you will never get a random.

This is the most entitled filled pvp community I've ever seen and I've been around for 30 years.

Ben is doing a great job keeping us updated and engaged when he can. Changes to pvp play through swiss style should result in better gameplay in that it's no longer one and done elimination. And according to Ben, after swiss style is implemented we will get on-demand ATs... people need to realize these are fundamental framework changes to pvp that shouldn't be done overnight and need time to go through ideation and iterations.

PvP is stale so a new map and changes to tournaments is definitely welcomed. The solo/duo queue probably won't change and for good reason. If the pvp population increases dramatically then sure, bring back duo queues for plat+. But with the gross imbalances in this game from elites to duo queuing in general, I don't see this changing any time soon.

I'd rather we get more maps and different game types that's not named Stronghold but this will do for now.

And they also need to update the frequency of balance passes. When they do come, they're missing the mark and we're kept in the dark as to when we'll see another pass and even then it's not guaranteed they're going to make meaningful changes.

2 years for 1 map that will just be another circle dancing joke. You can see how it clearly got here when there is not even a part time person working on pvp but there are about 40-60 people working on flashy buyable skins ooooooooohhhh pretty but doesn't make the game better... Evey update has more flashy stuff to buy so we know there is time to do things there.

I really love all the back end coders and development experts who have years of experience with GW2 code in this thread.

Funny it's the same people going full retard in this thread who are running riots in duoq threads because they seem to know everything better, doesn't matter if it's about the community, development or anything else.

At least we will have enough quotes saved when the next thread about 'no communication' comes in a few days.

With all these threads about returning DuoQLet's put it like that, it's the same few people spamming threads and votes every week. Although I do agree AT-s would require a bit more focus.

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Skittledness.5106 said:Thanks Ben for replying,and I’m sure the little staff dedicated to pvp is trying and to give you guys credit when you do come out with balance changes they have been in the right direction for awhile now.That being said pvp hasn’t had a pvp map in over 3 years and we have been giving any content since before PoF with the release of AT’s which isn’t unique content since it consist of the same gamemodes/maps everyone’s played forever.

The core problem to pvp primarily and I guess gw2 is population.Without content or an incentive to actually get good people move on to other games/gamemodes.This makes the matchmaker work harder and I’m sure you’re aware of the rest.

Thank you again Ben for trying I love you

It's so obvious that they don't have to answer this ... Population is way too low for this kind of Q to exist. It would make more wrong than good to spvp. Qs would be way too long , and not enoug competitive teams for the best one to compete => No (more) fun. You just need to see how many team get registered to the AT daily and monthly.

So If you want to make duo/team Q back, you better find a solution to get ppl back to GW2 and/or to spvp.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Swiss:There hasn't been much to update. Work continues, it's just been more complicated than we hoped. But a lot of progress has been made in the last couple weeks. Sometime in the next few weeks, we'll have another update to the tournament backend systems that should be mostly invisible to you. But it will contain a lot of the things needed by swiss.

On-Demand AT's:This has been pushed to after swiss. It unfortunately needed more UI work than we originally hoped.

Bonus update: Special Tournaments:The server work mentioned in the above swiss section is also needed for special tournaments.

I appriciate the answer, however; How can the Special tournaments require swiss in order to be implemented? Would it be easier to implement into unranked for a weekend?Having stuff like a:No downstate weekend.Half Cooldown weekend. (horrible idea)Even old gw1 flux's implemented.

During an old reddit AMA one dev stated that swiss was "still some ways away" and that was almost five months ago. Is it safe to assume that it won't happen until 2019?I understand your need for discretion. But keeping the player-base on ice for months upon months with a promise that (too be honest) never seems to be happening just seems like the wrong way to go about things.I for one would greatly appriciate complete transparency from the PvP team regarding these sort of things. Even though I understand that you most likely have no clue when you'll be able to ship swiss, having a bulletpoint list on the forums where you check things off as they're completed might be a thing you should do. That way, we can at least follow your progress instead of being completely in the dark.

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

With all these threads about returning DuoQLet's put it like that, it's the same few people spamming threads and votes every week. Although I do agree AT-s would require a bit more focus.There are over 115 unique people voting yes in the polls, that's a pretty high amount for these forums. However, that's not a discussion for this thread.

Thanks for the updates, Ben. Two forum users are being completely inappropriate here. Don't listen to them.

I appreciate folks like Angel Loves Frederik pressing our questions in respectful ways.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Skittledness.5106 said:Thanks Ben for replying,and I’m sure the little staff dedicated to pvp is trying and to give you guys credit when you do come out with balance changes they have been in the right direction for awhile now.That being said pvp hasn’t had a pvp map in over 3 years and we have been giving any content since before PoF with the release of AT’s which isn’t unique content since it consist of the same gamemodes/maps everyone’s played forever.

The core problem to pvp primarily and I guess gw2 is population.Without content or an incentive to actually get good people move on to other games/gamemodes.This makes the matchmaker work harder and I’m sure you’re aware of the rest.

Thank you again Ben for trying I love you

Thank you for the updates.

In the grand scheme of things none of these sound like changes that will redeem GW2 PvP or attract any new players or even bring old players back to the dying game mode.

We have tournaments. They’re okay and welcome but only a fraction of what PvP needs as a whole. It seems like all of the PvP development is focused on developing this niche feature for a relatively minor improvement. Unless the vision for the future of PvP is everyone participating in these Swiss tournaments at all hours of the day?

A new conquest map is cool but again, an addition to an already existing and played out game mode. So many resources devoted to something that offers a minor improvement.

As for the custom 10v10 map. Am I wrong in assuming this is just another map that will go off to die in the PvP browser because no one uses these custom maps anymore?

This is all incredibly underwhelming.

Just some feedback from an avid PvPer who has spent way too much in the gem store. The reason I’m still here is because of my wife and guild, but that won’t stop me from moving to a better MMO when it comes out. I’ll be taking as much of my community with me as I can when I go. If I can’t take the important people with me I’ll end up dividing my time between a game I no longer care about but people I do and a game that is actually fun. You can guess where my money will be going, though.

@"rank eleven monk.9502" said:Funny it's the same people going full kitten in this thread who are running riots in duoq threads because they seem to know everything better, doesn't matter if it's about the community, development or anything else.

At least we will have enough quotes saved when the next thread about 'no communication' comes in a few days.

With all these threads about returning DuoQLet's put it like that, it's the same few people spamming threads and votes every week. Although I do agree AT-s would require a bit more focus.

The people asking about duo and team queue have every right to do so as it was just a trial that never got finalized and Anet are being exceptionally rude about it by not answering those legitimate questions from their customers.

ANet said it was a trial, Anet said we would have another poll, Anet pretends like team queue never existed.... Of course people are unhappy and running "riots", especially the ones who got manipulated and cheated.

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Skittledness.5106 said:Thanks Ben for replying,and I’m sure the little staff dedicated to pvp is trying and to give you guys credit when you do come out with balance changes they have been in the right direction for awhile now.That being said pvp hasn’t had a pvp map in over 3 years and we have been giving any content since before PoF with the release of AT’s which isn’t unique content since it consist of the same gamemodes/maps everyone’s played forever.

The core problem to pvp primarily and I guess gw2 is population.Without content or an incentive to actually get good people move on to other games/gamemodes.This makes the matchmaker work harder and I’m sure you’re aware of the rest.

Thank you again Ben for trying I love you

The solution is team queue.... Population is low due to this extended trial of duo queue and is still declining, the evidence of that is throughout the first 10 pages of the PvP forums...People still ask in Discord if team queue has come back yet and then there's the math side that team queue will always bring in more players than solo/duo queue.

Your perspective is currently on duo/solo queue population, that will not sustain team rank of course not.... But the team queue population could easily sustain both team rank and solo queue as it used too before it was removed.

And personally, I never used to mind the 2-3 minute queues for team rank and wouldn't mind the 5 minute queues that we would probably have today if it were to return....

Besides... If they add a team queue button alongside the solo queue button, why would it have any effect on anyone except the people willing to queue up in team ranked?

Teamies would be happy, are you against that for some reason? Or is this one of those things where you'd know most people would ditch the solo for team in an instant?

Regardless of our opinions, Anet released a trial and has yet to finalize that trial... And to be fair, we've been trialing for longer than the expected duration, it's about time we finalized it even if the end result is the same

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

Swiss:

There hasn't been much to update. Work continues, it's just been more complicated than we hoped. But a lot of progress has been made in the last couple weeks. Sometime in the next few weeks, we'll have another update to the tournament backend systems that should be mostly invisible to you. But it will contain a lot of the things needed by swiss.

On-Demand AT's:

This has been pushed to after swiss. It unfortunately needed more UI work than we originally hoped.

Bonus update: Special Tournaments:

The server work mentioned in the above swiss section is also needed for special tournaments.

If swiss will be done by December thats fine by me. If your looking at at 2019 drop of swiss that be very dissapointing.