Guardian needs help in the support area.

Firebrand brings a lot of support and its cool in its own ways.And base guardian has tons of ways to not actively help allies.BUTThe Guardian Does feel like it could be achieving these things way better and more actively. So I'm Gonna suggest a few changes that I think it needs.THE STAFF.At its current state its the Guardians weakest asset and it needs to be moved to a full support style weapon.Wave Of Wraith- Just bring the distance back.Orb of light- I like that it grants the the aura at explosion but it should really heal allies it passes through and that shouldn't be reliant on the explosion. make healing number bigger reduce damge.Symbol of swiftness-I'm Cool with that.Empower- Let me MOVE!!!!! or apply aegis to allies and my self on the first pulse. BUT LET ME MOVE!!!Line of warding- SHOULD BE SCRAPPED. Id like to see it changed to Warding Spell- Channel a ward for the duration of the channel you are held in place but knockback foes who try to enter your circle.I'm sure some of that is OP but we can talk about that later.

Spirit weapons SHOULD BE SCRAPPED and changed to work like the ritualist of old.Splinter weapon- charge allies weapon. during this charge allies gain retaliation and might.Restorative weapon- allies next heal for the duration of the charge.Disruptive Weapon- allies next attack interrupt foesFlaming Weapon- allies attack burn for the duration of the charge.

These kinda work like the soulbeast's stances once traited but would only effect allies and would have to be traited to effect you as well

I had an idea for a staff rework some time ago that could greatly increase its support potential and also make it a decent option for offensive support as well rather than pure support. It borrows individual ideas I've seen put forth by the community here numerous times over the past few years including some of the ones you mentioned:

• Skill 1. Wave of Wrath: Keep the animation the same (a thrust with your staff) but change the visual effect from a light wave to a spear made of light (kinda like a paragon-style spear) that strikes targets from afar. It would be decently fast, 900 range, piercing but reflectable. It would also deal fairly low damage (dps on par with DH's longbow auto attack).
• Skill 2. Orb of Light: Make it a ground-targeted skill and increase the projectile's speed. It would have radius, similar to Longbow #3 (deflecting shot). All allies in the path are healed by the orb, foes struck take small damage and receive vulnerability. Detonating the orb heals/applies light aura to allies and deals high damage/burns foes (like underwater trident #2 skill).
• Skill 3. Symbol of Swiftness: This is perhaps the only decent skill on staff right now. I would say leave this skill as be, but perhaps lower the after-cast of the skill and increase swiftness duration. This skill really doesn't need much buffing if any.
• Skill 4. Empower: Perhaps full mobility with empower may be too OP but complete immobilization is underpowered and needs to change. I think a good compromise would be reduced mobility during the initial three casts of empower (like whirling wrath). The final cast (the big heal) would then become a flip-over skill on #4 that immobilizes the guardian for 1/4 to 1/2 second and delivers a large aoe heal to allies along with regen and would be a blast finisher. Flip-over would be available for 6 seconds.
• Skill 5. Line of Warding: Complete rework. Change the animation to a horizontal swipe (front-facing only for targeting). Same cast time and cool down, still 1200 range and ground-targeted but completing the cast sends out a fast wave of light (non-projectile). The light heals allies it passes through. Upon reaching the target destination, the wave explodes dealing decent damage to foes and leaving behind a line of warding just as it did before.

The key to reworking staff are skills 2 and 4 since these are the primary support skills. As is right now they are extremely straight forward but have too many drawbacks for support-based skills. Reworking them in the way that I mentioned would give guardians decent burst-heals and support-based comboes for allies. Just imagine the following: Cast staff 4 so you have the flipover-skill ready. Then, precast staff 2, Merciful intervention to an ally, detonate staff 2, cast the flip-over #4 skill.

Staff is actively used as a support weapon in PvP and WvW.None of your suggestions make it a significantly better weapon in PvE, where you don't adress any of firebrand / support guards' real issues (mostly : it isn't chrono).As a result, none of your suggestions have any vision. They won't make staff used in PvE outside of 1111 farm trains and clearly it doesn't need buffs for PvP and WvW where it's already META and very strong.

I'm sure some of that is OP but we can talk about that later.

I'm glad you're aware

2/10 - if you're going to "improve" things at least make sure they're an improvement and not random ideas to make a weapon fit your personal fantasies.

@"Arcaedus.7290" said:I had an idea for a staff rework some time ago that could greatly increase its support potential and also make it a decent option for offensive support as well rather than pure support. It borrows individual ideas I've seen put forth by the community here numerous times over the past few years including some of the ones you mentioned:

• Skill 1. Wave of Wrath: Keep the animation the same (a thrust with your staff) but change the visual effect from a light wave to a spear made of light (kinda like a paragon-style spear) that strikes targets from afar. It would be decently fast, 900 range, piercing but reflectable. It would also deal fairly low damage (dps on par with DH's longbow auto attack).
• Skill 2. Orb of Light: Make it a ground-targeted skill and increase the projectile's speed. It would have radius, similar to Longbow #3 (deflecting shot). All allies in the path are healed by the orb, foes struck take small damage and receive vulnerability. Detonating the orb heals/applies light aura to allies and deals high damage/burns foes (like underwater trident #2 skill).
• Skill 3. Symbol of Swiftness: This is perhaps the only decent skill on staff right now. I would say leave this skill as be, but perhaps lower the after-cast of the skill and increase swiftness duration. This skill really doesn't need much buffing if any.
• Skill 4. Empower: Perhaps full mobility with empower may be too OP but complete immobilization is underpowered and needs to change. I think a good compromise would be reduced mobility during the initial three casts of empower (like whirling wrath). The final cast (the big heal) would then become a flip-over skill on #4 that immobilizes the guardian for 1/4 to 1/2 second and delivers a large aoe heal to allies along with regen and would be a blast finisher. Flip-over would be available for 6 seconds.
• Skill 5. Line of Warding: Complete rework. Change the animation to a horizontal swipe (front-facing only for targeting). Same cast time and cool down, still 1200 range and ground-targeted but completing the cast sends out a fast wave of light (non-projectile). The light heals allies it passes through. Upon reaching the target destination, the wave explodes dealing decent damage to foes and leaving behind a line of warding just as it did before.

The key to reworking staff are skills 2 and 4 since these are the primary support skills. As is right now they are extremely straight forward but have too many drawbacks for support-based skills. Reworking them in the way that I mentioned would give guardians decent burst-heals and support-based comboes for allies. Just imagine the following: Cast staff 4 so you have the flipover-skill ready. Then, precast staff 2, Merciful intervention to an ally, detonate staff 2, cast the flip-over #4 skill.

Imagine this : you have FIREBRAND which is by a long shot the strongest defensive support in the game for PvP and WvW right now. The issue with firebrand is NOT how it struggles with healing. So you've just made the META, BY FAR STRONGEST pvp / wvw setup even stronger.

Yet it's issues in PvE come from not applying 25 might / damage modifiers / quickness / alacrity / ... as well as druid / chrono combo. NOTHING you changed about guard improves this. So you've created a more difficult, fancy weapon which... further makes firebrand MORE op in WvW / PvP and still doesn't fix its issues in PvE; further removing ourselves away from balance.

Are we roleplaying about stuff that sounds fun / fancy / nice? Are we just trying to imagine what they could do to staff to make firebrand godlikely broken? Or are we actually trying to "improve" support guard. I can't tell.

Instead rather look for changes that buff it's ability to share might (or alacrity or fury) in PvE without further improving it in WvW / PvP.

The staff isn’t fun. I’m just trying to make it more fun. Sure it has its function In wvw. But show me a pve player that find it interesting and making suggestions for that.

Pvp players generally care about functionality but yes as person who runs around the pve world and would like to use the staff for fantasy reasons it’s current interation is severely lacking

@"Etheri.5406" said:Imagine this : you have FIREBRAND which is by a long shot the strongest defensive support in the game for PvP and WvW right now. The issue with firebrand is NOT how it struggles with healing. So you've just made the META, BY FAR STRONGEST pvp / wvw setup even stronger.

Yet it's issues in PvE come from not applying 25 might / damage modifiers / quickness / alacrity / ... as well as druid / chrono combo. NOTHING you changed about guard improves this. So you've created a more difficult, fancy weapon which... further makes firebrand MORE op in WvW / PvP and still doesn't fix its issues in PvE; further removing ourselves away from balance.

Are we roleplaying about stuff that sounds fun / fancy / nice? Are we just trying to imagine what they could do to staff to make firebrand godlikely broken? Or are we actually trying to "improve" support guard. I can't tell.

Instead rather look for changes that buff it's ability to share might (or alacrity or fury) in PvE without further improving it in WvW / PvP.

Keep in mind that considering how "op" firebrand is, it's hard to suggest improvements to staff when it's supposed to be a support-focused weapon. At the same time, I don't think leaving staff in its current state is acceptable JUST because it would strengthen the firebrand. As it currently is, staff is a very poor weapon that at a base level is garbage, and only becomes MEDIOCRE given the correct stats/trait setup. Even then, you can honestly change staff out for something else and you wouldn't notice much difference because the primary support comes from Firebrand tomes/utilities, NOT staff. So staff is useless as an offensive weapon (regardless of build), and is completely expendable as a support weapon. That's unacceptable imo.

My changes were aimed at making staff more viable as an offensive weapon while still focusing on the support aspect. Please, tell me how making Empower a mostly mobile skill, and letting Orb of Light be ground-targeted would make firebrand OP? These two changes are at the heart of what I'm suggesting.

I just want the auto-attack to have a nice 1,200 range, but don't make it a wave. A projectile of some sorts, or really slim linear AoE could be cool. (Add maybe some boons on it, maybe might)AND, I also want the wards to be changed. "Wards" are classified as their own skill type, yet there isn't anything in the game that enhances or plays with them. Something grander would be appreciated like an explosion of light in a 360 AoE (1,200 range) that does OK healing but also prolongs the boon duration of: Might, Regen, Alacrity, & Quickness by 5 Seconds. (idk how people feel about the numbers, but yeee) :P

Again, all "flair" stuff that doesn't impact the fact that STAFF won't be used in PVE anywhere.You pretend all the support comes from tomes yet staff 2 doubletap is amazing to use in between two tomes and empower is staple in both WvW and PvP. You want to "empower" while moving? Doesn't make it ANY better in PvE while it's a massive buff for PvP and WvW.

Ward isn't "fun enough" yet it's undodgable CC at 1.2k range. Let's rework it to something that... still no support in PvE would use. Wards create temporary "terrain" making them not dodgeable, but also not apply CC unless you try to walk through. They're self-consistent and they do interact with both dashes (which they prevent) versus teleports (which they allow).

You pretend nobody uses staff because it's unfun or badly designed, when in reality it's just not a PvE weapon which is perfectly fine. Same for staff on necro and hammer on warrior. These are not PVE weapons and they will never be amazing in PVE, which is fine.

Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

@"Etheri.5406" said:Again, all "flair" stuff that doesn't impact the fact that STAFF won't be used in PVE anywhere.You pretend all the support comes from tomes yet staff 2 doubletap is amazing to use in between two tomes and empower is staple in both WvW and PvP. You want to "empower" while moving? Doesn't make it ANY better in PvE while it's a massive buff for PvP and WvW.

Ward isn't "fun enough" yet it's undodgable CC at 1.2k range. Let's rework it to something that... still no support in PvE would use. Wards create temporary "terrain" making them not dodgeable, but also not apply CC unless you try to walk through. They're self-consistent and they do interact with both dashes (which they prevent) versus teleports (which they allow).

You pretend nobody uses staff because it's unfun or badly designed, when in reality it's just not a PvE weapon which is perfectly fine. Same for staff on necro and hammer on warrior. These are not PVE weapons and they will never be amazing in PVE, which is fine.

Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

Well 1. I do think mobility of empower and a ground target aoe would greatly increase its usability in pve.

And 2. This thread is specifically about making the weapon more interesting to use in pve.

3. Tons of people complain about the necro staff in pve.

4. While the warrior hammer is not optimal it is still fun to use in pve.

5. Functionality isn’t the only thing to look at when it comes to class design. So can you stop pushing that angle.

@Etheri.5406 said:Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

Why wouldn't they push roleplay based stuff? Roleplayers matter too.

@Yannir.4132 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

Sure, but don't hide it under "balance" or support guard needing buffs. Just be honest. "Dear Anet, we need new guard staff skills because they don't suit my RP fantasies." At least then we know what we're on about.

Don't go around pretending you'll improve balance or guard's status as a support when you're doing the opposite : making it more oppressive and in need of nerfs for WvW and PvP while remaining non-functional for PvE.

@Artyport.2084 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:Again, all "flair" stuff that doesn't impact the fact that STAFF won't be used in PVE anywhere.You pretend all the support comes from tomes yet staff 2 doubletap is amazing to use in between two tomes and empower is staple in both WvW and PvP. You want to "empower" while moving? Doesn't make it ANY better in PvE while it's a massive buff for PvP and WvW.

Ward isn't "fun enough" yet it's undodgable CC at 1.2k range. Let's rework it to something that... still no support in PvE would use. Wards create temporary "terrain" making them not dodgeable, but also not apply CC unless you try to walk through. They're self-consistent and they do interact with both dashes (which they prevent) versus teleports (which they allow).

You pretend nobody uses staff because it's unfun or badly designed, when in reality it's just not a PvE weapon which is perfectly fine. Same for staff on necro and hammer on warrior. These are not PVE weapons and they will never be amazing in PVE, which is fine.

Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

3. Tons of people complain about the necro staff in pve.

4. While the warrior hammer is not optimal it is still fun to use in pve.

5. Functionality isn’t the only thing to look at when it comes to class design. So can you stop pushing that angle.

1. Mobility of empower changes NOTHING about its usability in PvE. It still can't apply 25 might, still struggles keeping up that same might and still won't compete with druid. Sorry but having to stand still when 99% of the bosses don't even move is the least of the issues staff has in PvE. It still won't be competitive in either fractals or raids or even zerg openworld content. Just an option for players who are happy to ignore performance.

2. Glad we're ignoring 2 gamemodes in favor of PVE. And no, they won't split the mechanics of a class.

3. Yes, and they're clueless players that will continue to get ignored for obvious reasons. Such as : necro staff is a great weapon as long as you need utility and not raw stats / DPS.

4. So is staff - just doesn't fit your fantasy.

5. I'm not pushing my angle. You're pushing yours. You'll PRETEND you try to improve SUPPORT from guard in PvE yet ... NOTHING you mentioned actually makes guard remotely viable or adresses the reasons it's NOT viable in PVE right now. Just shows you're clueless about even your own prefered gamemode. What does it do? Make it fit your fantasies better. Make it feel better. Not make it perform. Not make it more balanaced. Nope, just push it's fantasy that you desire.

And functionality is pretty important when you design a class. You know, you can design dumbly broken stuff pretending it's "fun" and "cool" and the result? Dull meta's you can't escape because everything is completely overloaded in amounts of stuff it does.

Sound familiar? Guess not because you have no idea what "performance" means. Nobody balances for how "open world" feels. Your feelings are fine - but not if they work AGAINST balance. And all your changes do exactly that.

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Artyport.2084 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:Again, all "flair" stuff that doesn't impact the fact that STAFF won't be used in PVE anywhere.You pretend all the support comes from tomes yet staff 2 doubletap is amazing to use in between two tomes and empower is staple in both WvW and PvP. You want to "empower" while moving? Doesn't make it ANY better in PvE while it's a massive buff for PvP and WvW.

Ward isn't "fun enough" yet it's undodgable CC at 1.2k range. Let's rework it to something that... still no support in PvE would use. Wards create temporary "terrain" making them not dodgeable, but also not apply CC unless you try to walk through. They're self-consistent and they do interact with both dashes (which they prevent) versus teleports (which they allow).

You pretend nobody uses staff because it's unfun or badly designed, when in reality it's just not a PvE weapon which is perfectly fine. Same for staff on necro and hammer on warrior. These are not PVE weapons and they will never be amazing in PVE, which is fine.

Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

3. Tons of people complain about the necro staff in pve.

4. While the warrior hammer is not optimal it is still fun to use in pve.

5. Functionality isn’t the only thing to look at when it comes to class design. So can you stop pushing that angle.

1. Mobility of empower changes NOTHING about its usability in PvE. It still can't apply 25 might, still struggles keeping up that same might and still won't compete with druid. Sorry but having to stand still when 99% of the bosses don't even move is the least of the issues staff has in PvE. It still won't be competitive in either fractals or raids or even zerg openworld content. Just an option for players who are happy to ignore performance.

2. Glad we're ignoring 2 gamemodes in favor of PVE. And no, they won't split the mechanics of a class.

3. Yes, and they're clueless players that will continue to get ignored for obvious reasons. Such as : necro staff is a great weapon as long as you need utility and not raw stats / DPS.

4. So is staff - just doesn't fit your fantasy.

5. I'm not pushing my angle. You're pushing yours. You'll PRETEND you try to improve SUPPORT from guard in PvE yet ... NOTHING you mentioned actually makes guard remotely viable or adresses the reasons it's NOT viable in PVE right now. Just shows you're clueless about even your own prefered gamemode. What does it do? Make it fit your fantasies better. Make it feel better. Not make it perform. Not make it more balanaced. Nope, just push it's fantasy that you desire.

Ok if you don’t like the idea. Just don’t comment Jesus.. you don’t agree we get it.

My big point is that the staff doesn’t feel fun to use. Sure it works in a lot of situations but I also would like for it to be FUN.I’m not trying to argue with you. I have had many convos with other guardian players who say the same thing.

So ok I think you have some valid points about its usage. But I just think they could make it useful and fun.

What’s wrong with people arguing for the sake of arguing. Omg

I feel like I should mention that staff has been meta in WvW since release. It has always been a mandatory weapon for a mandatory profession. Firebrand did not change this. The weapon is fine.

@Ganathar.4956 said:I feel like I should mention that staff has been meta in WvW since release. It has always been a mandatory weapon for a mandatory profession. Firebrand did not change this. The weapon is fine.

Yeah I can understand why it’s useful in WvW.And maybe pvp in general.

I’d like to change it so it is more useful in pve.And fun to use.

@Artyport.2084 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Artyport.2084 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:Again, all "flair" stuff that doesn't impact the fact that STAFF won't be used in PVE anywhere.You pretend all the support comes from tomes yet staff 2 doubletap is amazing to use in between two tomes and empower is staple in both WvW and PvP. You want to "empower" while moving? Doesn't make it ANY better in PvE while it's a massive buff for PvP and WvW.

Ward isn't "fun enough" yet it's undodgable CC at 1.2k range. Let's rework it to something that... still no support in PvE would use. Wards create temporary "terrain" making them not dodgeable, but also not apply CC unless you try to walk through. They're self-consistent and they do interact with both dashes (which they prevent) versus teleports (which they allow).

You pretend nobody uses staff because it's unfun or badly designed, when in reality it's just not a PvE weapon which is perfectly fine. Same for staff on necro and hammer on warrior. These are not PVE weapons and they will never be amazing in PVE, which is fine.

Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

3. Tons of people complain about the necro staff in pve.

4. While the warrior hammer is not optimal it is still fun to use in pve.

5. Functionality isn’t the only thing to look at when it comes to class design. So can you stop pushing that angle.

1. Mobility of empower changes NOTHING about its usability in PvE. It still can't apply 25 might, still struggles keeping up that same might and still won't compete with druid. Sorry but having to stand still when 99% of the bosses don't even move is the least of the issues staff has in PvE. It still won't be competitive in either fractals or raids or even zerg openworld content. Just an option for players who are happy to ignore performance.

2. Glad we're ignoring 2 gamemodes in favor of PVE. And no, they won't split the mechanics of a class.

3. Yes, and they're clueless players that will continue to get ignored for obvious reasons. Such as : necro staff is a great weapon as long as you need utility and not raw stats / DPS.

4. So is staff - just doesn't fit your fantasy.

5. I'm not pushing my angle. You're pushing yours. You'll PRETEND you try to improve SUPPORT from guard in PvE yet ... NOTHING you mentioned actually makes guard remotely viable or adresses the reasons it's NOT viable in PVE right now. Just shows you're clueless about even your own prefered gamemode. What does it do? Make it fit your fantasies better. Make it feel better. Not make it perform. Not make it more balanaced. Nope, just push it's fantasy that you desire.

"If you don't agree with my genius ideas just don't reply"... Why would you discuss changes on a forum?!

@Artyport.2084 said:

@"Ganathar.4956" said:I feel like I should mention that staff has been meta in WvW since release. It has always been a mandatory weapon for a mandatory profession. Firebrand did not change this. The weapon is fine.

I'm going to try, once more, to explain some simple basics. I get that YOU don't care about balance. Surely you understand many others, and as a result anet too, do. Balance is pretty important in video games, especially competitive or high-end modes. Let's assume balance is... relevant. Let's also see that anet WILL NOT split skill functionality between PvE and other modes. Only numbers.

The suggestions you make "may" make staff more fun. For you. After all, fun is subjective and I enjoy staff right now. This is nothing more than an opinion. What you find fun.

What is NOT an opinion, is the FACT that your suggestions make staff strictly stronger for PvP and WvW. That's a FACT because you're making each skill strictly stronger. Strictly stronger because you consider it more FUN.

Except where NONE of these buffs even consider PvP or WvW or high end PvE. Now in PvP and WvW You'll make the weapon even stronger, meaning the CLASS or WEAPON will need more nerfs for these modes. Yet you don't tackle any of its issues in PvE... Where it has AMAZING healing but struggles with might uptime and offensive boons. You want to buff staff? Make it give more might or longer might rather than allowing us to move. Make it in some way give fury, might, alacrity, quickness, ... in PvE. Not changing its functionality completely without even looking at these issues.

But you don't care. As you've admitted, you don't care about players who want balance. You don't care about other gamemodes or high end PvE. You care about how things feel, to you. Everyone else? Well fuck them. Didnt even THINK about it. And if they come here and tell you your ideas are completely out of wack? Well they're evil and shouldn't even post! How can they not agree staff isn't "fun" enough?

Here's the problem with suggestions without insight. You demand for "fun" buffs in a bad place / way -> worse balance -> anet needs to nerf for where the weapon overperforms aka PVP and WvW -> N e r f s -> ??? . Just blanket buffing something doesn't make it "more viable in PvE". Everything you suggested would lead to the opposite : Even more OP in PvP and WvW while even more shit in PvE in comparison.

So you want a full weapon rework for what? Making balance worse? Making a weapon subjectively fun for YOU while ignoring balance, other players, other gamemodes, ...? Not understanding that bad balance just leads to NERFS making staff even worse for YOU? Yeah. Goodluck with that.

If you want it MORE USEFUL IN PVE then we can talk. But your suggestions don't do that. They're just here for "roleplay". Stuff that sounds "fun" and fancy but doesn't do anything. If you want it MORE USEFUL in PvE, look at WHY it struggles in PVE. And it sure isn't because you stand still while you empower or because you can't aim staff 2 well enough.

You make suggestions without even CONSIDERING other players and other gamemodes yet get upset when your ideas get called out for being bad. Come back when your suggestions promote balance between PVE and PvP / WvW rather than making it worse.

And for the love of god, can the players who don't grasp how the game is played stop making balance suggestions? It just spams bad feedback towards anet. Which is exactly why I'm here making sure it's clear these are bad ideas. Wouldn't want them thinking players actually seriously think this is a good idea.

babe I never said my ideas are perfect. Or even the right answers.

I was just posting about a conversation me and some friends were having about the staff.

What’s annoying is that you are just here to say my opinion is invalid and it’s not just my opinion.

Again it’s not just about USEFULness to me. I understand that it is for you.

How about you make some suggestions about how it can be more useful in PVE then.

Jeez again I’m not trying to fight you I’m just expressing my opinion and I provided some suggestions on how I’d like to see it change. I even noted that my ideas are imperfect.

@Etheri.5406 said:And for the love of god, can the players who don't grasp how the game is played stop making balance suggestions? It just spams bad feedback towards anet. Which is exactly why I'm here making sure it's clear these are bad ideas. Wouldn't want them thinking players actually seriously think this is a good idea.

I'm sorry but you have an attitude that doesn't help.Instead of being constructive and offering your opinions in a way that would steer the conversation into the right directions you keep bashing on the OP for no apparent reason. Everybody has the right to voice their opinions, even when they are not correct in your opinion.

Are you really that afraid that any devs reading these comments are just gonna implement these changes no questions asked? They have data and analytics to see what changes are needed with under-utilized skills. This staff conversation pops up on a weekly basis, and guess what? Anet doesn't implement changes to it because they know every Firebrand in WvW/PvP uses the staff.I even agree with you on the basis that staff isn't first in line to need changes. But how you present yourself is kinda disrespectful and childish.

@"Etheri.5406" said:Again, all "flair" stuff that doesn't impact the fact that STAFF won't be used in PVE anywhere.You pretend all the support comes from tomes yet staff 2 doubletap is amazing to use in between two tomes and empower is staple in both WvW and PvP. You want to "empower" while moving? Doesn't make it ANY better in PvE while it's a massive buff for PvP and WvW.

Ward isn't "fun enough" yet it's undodgable CC at 1.2k range. Let's rework it to something that... still no support in PvE would use. Wards create temporary "terrain" making them not dodgeable, but also not apply CC unless you try to walk through. They're self-consistent and they do interact with both dashes (which they prevent) versus teleports (which they allow).

You pretend nobody uses staff because it's unfun or badly designed, when in reality it's just not a PvE weapon which is perfectly fine. Same for staff on necro and hammer on warrior. These are not PVE weapons and they will never be amazing in PVE, which is fine.

Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

Ok I agree and disagree with you here on the argument of "fun vs unfun" I can by and large agree with you but why there is the issue with making the staff 2 Orb of Light a ground targetable skill because in no way does it make it over powered it just improves it accuracy and your statement that the Line of Warding is undodgable is from my own experience false in that I had seen it and done it where you double tap dodge roll thru it , granted it doesn't always work but it does work often enough. I also have question both you and the other person's arguments in the sense you are both referring to the use of the staff in how it relates to the Firebrand which would be fine if the staff was only usable by the FB but it is a core Guardian weapon so you both should at least look at it usefulness to both the core Guardian and the Dragonhunter.

Some off the cuff ideas for the Staff:

1. Wave of Wrath: Either leave as is or bump the range to 450 (the whole reason the staff got nerfed in the first place was it ability to cleave thru walls etc in WvW giving it back anything close to it's old range would bring this problem right back)2a.Orb of Light: Make it ground targetable otherwise leave it alone (maybe make a blast finisher but I personally think that would be better else where).2b. Detonate Orb of Light: Leave alone except as noted above.
2. Symbol of Swiftness: Have it give the guardian casting it a flat 10 to 15 seconds of swiftness in line with all the other weapon granting swiftness skills otherwise leave as is for granting swiftness to others because it is totally counter intuitive to cast the symbol for yourself while running but have stop and stand in it for a few seconds.
3. Empower: Don't make it a mobile cast option , do give the PvE and WvW side the same final healing(3000)as in PvP or at least close to it( I'm not really sure why the split it this way in the first place it's usually the PvP side that is the downgraded side for effectiveness) and make it a blast finisher so if the players working with some sense of team work gives the Guardian way to thru his own Symbols cleanse the team or through other fields augment the effectiveness of his party, but at the same time requiring coordination to allow the guardian to get the effect off.
4. Line of Warding: Again don't drastically change it, even if I was right on the double tap dodge roll thru weakness but I do agree with you on adding an additional effect for passing thru the Ward. My view would be more of an enemies/allies split where the enemy receives a condition but the ally either gets a condition cleared or flipped to a boon.You would have to consider how to work this in the sense of the conditions applied and for that matter those that are removed or flipped or it could easily get out of hand.

Now any, all or none of these could come into play either via a baseline change to the weapon or via traitlines and while I'm not saying these are in anyway prefect , which I'm some players out there could do much better, I am saying that this example of changes could make the staff a more useful support weapon for all of the types of Guardian in all of the play styles.

Note: On further consideration I can't say absolutely that the Line of Warding can be double tapped dodge rolled thru because all the times that I have seen it or done it the situation was very dynamic and there would be no way to be sure that the wasn't other factors involved but at the time it appeared to work that way.

Thank you and any other ideas woukd be appreciated

@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:Again, all "flair" stuff that doesn't impact the fact that STAFF won't be used in PVE anywhere.You pretend all the support comes from tomes yet staff 2 doubletap is amazing to use in between two tomes and empower is staple in both WvW and PvP. You want to "empower" while moving? Doesn't make it ANY better in PvE while it's a massive buff for PvP and WvW.

Ward isn't "fun enough" yet it's undodgable CC at 1.2k range. Let's rework it to something that... still no support in PvE would use. Wards create temporary "terrain" making them not dodgeable, but also not apply CC unless you try to walk through. They're self-consistent and they do interact with both dashes (which they prevent) versus teleports (which they allow).

You pretend nobody uses staff because it's unfun or badly designed, when in reality it's just not a PvE weapon which is perfectly fine. Same for staff on necro and hammer on warrior. These are not PVE weapons and they will never be amazing in PVE, which is fine.

Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

A guardian that doesn't know how stability works... How do you guys expect me to treat you respectfully if you really just don't know how the game works. You can NEVER dodge through enemy wards unless you have stab or other effects which prevent knockdown. You can't just "dodge through".

I also have question both you and the other person's arguments in the sense you are both referring to the use of the staff in how it relates to the Firebrand which would be fine if the staff was only usable by the FB but it is a core Guardian weapon so you both should at least look at it usefulness to both the core Guardian and the Dragonhunter.

Like mace? Oh wait.Core guard used it fine for years, including throughout entire HoT. If FB vs core is too weak on the support side (which it is) then that needs buffs, not the weapon. Can staff use buffs? Sure, if you do FB nerfs to compensate or do them smartly, so targetted to boost PvE over WvW and PvP or through splits.

Some off the cuff ideas for the Staff:

1. Wave of Wrath: Either leave as is or bump the range to 450 (the whole reason the staff got nerfed in the first place was it ability to cleave thru walls etc in WvW giving it back anything close to it's old range would bring this problem right back)2a.Orb of Light: Make it ground targetable otherwise leave it alone (maybe make a blast finisher but I personally think that would be better else where).2b. Detonate Orb of Light: Leave alone except as noted above.

Acceptable.

3. Symbol of Swiftness: Have it give the guardian casting it a flat 10 to 15 seconds of swiftness in line with all the other weapon granting swiftness skills otherwise leave as is for granting swiftness to others because it is totally counter intuitive to cast the symbol for yourself while running but have stop and stand in it for a few seconds.

Not the end of the world. Fairly big buff for PvP where FB is gated by mediocre mobility but meh, swiftness.

4. Empower: Don't make it a mobile cast option , do give the PvE and WvW side the same final healing(3000)as in PvP or at least close to it( I'm not really sure why the split it this way in the first place it's usually the PvP side that is the downgraded side for effectiveness) and make it a blast finisher so if the players working with some sense of team work gives the Guardian way to thru his own Symbols cleanse the team or through other fields augment the effectiveness of his party, but at the same time requiring coordination to allow the guardian to get the effect off.

Because in WvW it was popular to spec into altruistic healing, which heals guard for every buff it applies. Every tick you apply 20 might stacks, giving you huge heals. 2 guards doing empower with this would be a full heal. Hence why they are forced to stand still with low end healing yet it's still very, very powerful.On top of that adding a blast...

Which means it's a full cleanse + full heal in WvW where it's used. Extra powerful in PvP too. Yet what does it get extra in PvE? 3 might stacks? A blast you can't control?

How does this make it better in PVE? More heal? FB already heals WAY too much for PvE; and that's not why it's not used. It's not used because it LACKS OFFENSIVE BUFFS compared to druid and chrono. Want to make staff better? Double the might duration on empower for PVE. Double the might stacks. Make it give fury too. Any of those are better than making it heal more, using its powerbudget on something it never ever needs.

5. Line of Warding: Again don't drastically change it, even if I was right on the double tap dodge roll thru weakness but I do agree with you on adding an additional effect for passing thru the Ward. My view would be more of an enemies/allies split where the enemy receives a condition

You're wrong. You get knocked down EVERY time as long as you don't have stab. Same for ring on hammer and sanctuary. There is no "condition on going through". It's not a goddamn trap. You either have stab and you can get through or you're not passing it. You could give it a buff if allies move through for PvE without making it TOO op.

but the ally either gets a condition cleared or flipped to a boon.You would have to consider how to work this in the sense of the conditions applied and for that matter those that are removed or flipped or it could easily get out of hand.

Except then you go about condi clear. Again, why does FB need extra condi clear in PvE? You have enough cleanse to deal with ANYTHING in PvE including literally jumping in red / scythe on SH. F2 and boom it's all gone. Condies and condi cleanse matters in WVW and PVP a LOOOOOOOOOOOOT more than in PvE. Want it viable for pve? Make it give DPS oriented boons like ... might? Or even better. Fix wards so they ACTUALLY HIT BREAKBARS without the boss walking into it. Don't even change the skill, just make it do breakbar damage when placed on a non-moving boss with a bar up.

Now any, all or none of these could come into play either via a baseline change to the weapon or via traitlines and while I'm not saying these are in anyway prefect , which I'm some players out there could do much better, I am saying that this example of changes could make the staff a more useful support weapon for all of the types of Guardian in all of the play styles.

I am saying this changes NOTHING about staff viability for PvE supports. It won't even be used as main option in most cases. It does make it drastically more powerful in PvE.

Note: On further consideration I can't say absolutely that the Line of Warding can be double tapped dodge rolled thru because all the times that I have seen it or done it the situation was very dynamic and there would be no way to be sure that the wasn't other factors involved but at the time it appeared to work that way.

You could just, I don't know, assume I actually know what i'm talking about. Or, you know, wiki it.

Despite the description, this skill is ground targeted. Additionally, the line is not unpassable. It acts like a tripwire by causing knockdown, but if the foe has stability or is otherwise immune to knockdowns they can pass through unaffected.

So I'll try once more :The reason FB support isn't more of a thing in PvE is because it can't replace chrono or druid. The reason staff is kinda bad isn't because of its lack of healing or damage - it's a support weapon and it actually heals quite well. The problem is it applies 12 stacks of might for a short duration... That forces you to camp the weapon without even mightstacking. (Compare to druid who heals while applying 25 might perma to 10 players, FB has... 12 stacks to 5 players on staff). Make that better. Make it give fury, or something. That's what staff struggles with. Cause guard healing and utility in PvE is actually REALLY REALLY good. It's just... nobody needs a super healer in PvE. That's what you need in PvP and WvW where you have full DPS enemy players destroying your necro.

That's also why FB is amazing in those modes. Insane healing, survival and condi clear.... Great in PvP and WvW.But not in PvE, where nobody needs insane healing and condi clear. They need damage buffs like might, quickness, fury and alacrity.

So if you want to suggest staff improvements for pve viability, fix the buff issue. don't make it heal more - it really doesn't make a difference. You can make it heal 5k on staff auto attack and it STILL won't be meta. (For the record, that'd be pretty dumb.)

@Etheri.5406 said:

@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:Again, all "flair" stuff that doesn't impact the fact that STAFF won't be used in PVE anywhere.You pretend all the support comes from tomes yet staff 2 doubletap is amazing to use in between two tomes and empower is staple in both WvW and PvP. You want to "empower" while moving? Doesn't make it ANY better in PvE while it's a massive buff for PvP and WvW.

Ward isn't "fun enough" yet it's undodgable CC at 1.2k range. Let's rework it to something that... still no support in PvE would use. Wards create temporary "terrain" making them not dodgeable, but also not apply CC unless you try to walk through. They're self-consistent and they do interact with both dashes (which they prevent) versus teleports (which they allow).

You pretend nobody uses staff because it's unfun or badly designed, when in reality it's just not a PvE weapon which is perfectly fine. Same for staff on necro and hammer on warrior. These are not PVE weapons and they will never be amazing in PVE, which is fine.

Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

I also have question both you and the other person's arguments in the sense you are both referring to the use of the staff in how it relates to the Firebrand which would be fine if the staff was only usable by the FB but it is a core Guardian weapon so you both should at least look at it usefulness to both the core Guardian and the Dragonhunter.

Some off the cuff ideas for the Staff:

1. Wave of Wrath: Either leave as is or bump the range to 450 (the whole reason the staff got nerfed in the first place was it ability to cleave thru walls etc in WvW giving it back anything close to it's old range would bring this problem right back)2a.Orb of Light: Make it ground targetable otherwise leave it alone (maybe make a blast finisher but I personally think that would be better else where).2b. Detonate Orb of Light: Leave alone except as noted above.

3. Symbol of Swiftness: Have it give the guardian casting it a flat 10 to 15 seconds of swiftness in line with all the other weapon granting swiftness skills otherwise leave as is for granting swiftness to others because it is totally counter intuitive to cast the symbol for yourself while running but have stop and stand in it for a few seconds.

4. Empower: Don't make it a mobile cast option , do give the PvE and WvW side the same final healing(3000)as in PvP or at least close to it( I'm not really sure why the split it this way in the first place it's usually the PvP side that is the downgraded side for effectiveness) and make it a blast finisher so if the players working with some sense of team work gives the Guardian way to thru his own Symbols cleanse the team or through other fields augment the effectiveness of his party, but at the same time requiring coordination to allow the guardian to get the effect off.

5. Line of Warding: Again don't drastically change it, even if I was right on the double tap dodge roll thru weakness but I do agree with you on adding an additional effect for passing thru the Ward. My view would be more of an enemies/allies split where the enemy receives a condition

but the ally either gets a condition cleared or flipped to a boon.You would have to consider how to work this in the sense of the conditions applied and for that matter those that are removed or flipped or it could easily get out of hand.

Now any, all or none of these could come into play either via a baseline change to the weapon or via traitlines and while I'm not saying these are in anyway prefect , which I'm some players out there could do much better, I am saying that this example of changes could make the staff a more useful support weapon for all of the types of Guardian in all of the play styles.

Note: On further consideration I can't say absolutely that the Line of Warding can be double tapped dodge rolled thru because all the times that I have seen it or done it the situation was very dynamic and there would be no way to be sure that the wasn't other factors involved but at the time it appeared to work that way.

Despite the description, this skill is ground targeted. Additionally, the line is not unpassable. It acts like a tripwire by causing knockdown, but if the foe has stability or is otherwise immune to knockdowns they can pass through unaffected.

Ok man I actually hear what you are saying. And it’s valid but wow it’s so hard to understand what you are saying because you are being such a rude person.

How about if the staff applied ashes of just to allies

Or if staff 5 reflected projectiles.

Are these better suggestions. Can we talk about this civilly

@Artyport.2084 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:Again, all "flair" stuff that doesn't impact the fact that STAFF won't be used in PVE anywhere.You pretend all the support comes from tomes yet staff 2 doubletap is amazing to use in between two tomes and empower is staple in both WvW and PvP. You want to "empower" while moving? Doesn't make it ANY better in PvE while it's a massive buff for PvP and WvW.

Ward isn't "fun enough" yet it's undodgable CC at 1.2k range. Let's rework it to something that... still no support in PvE would use. Wards create temporary "terrain" making them not dodgeable, but also not apply CC unless you try to walk through. They're self-consistent and they do interact with both dashes (which they prevent) versus teleports (which they allow).

You pretend nobody uses staff because it's unfun or badly designed, when in reality it's just not a PvE weapon which is perfectly fine. Same for staff on necro and hammer on warrior. These are not PVE weapons and they will never be amazing in PVE, which is fine.

Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

I also have question both you and the other person's arguments in the sense you are both referring to the use of the staff in how it relates to the Firebrand which would be fine if the staff was only usable by the FB but it is a core Guardian weapon so you both should at least look at it usefulness to both the core Guardian and the Dragonhunter.

Some off the cuff ideas for the Staff:

1. Wave of Wrath: Either leave as is or bump the range to 450 (the whole reason the staff got nerfed in the first place was it ability to cleave thru walls etc in WvW giving it back anything close to it's old range would bring this problem right back)2a.Orb of Light: Make it ground targetable otherwise leave it alone (maybe make a blast finisher but I personally think that would be better else where).2b. Detonate Orb of Light: Leave alone except as noted above.

3. Symbol of Swiftness: Have it give the guardian casting it a flat 10 to 15 seconds of swiftness in line with all the other weapon granting swiftness skills otherwise leave as is for granting swiftness to others because it is totally counter intuitive to cast the symbol for yourself while running but have stop and stand in it for a few seconds.

4. Empower: Don't make it a mobile cast option , do give the PvE and WvW side the same final healing(3000)as in PvP or at least close to it( I'm not really sure why the split it this way in the first place it's usually the PvP side that is the downgraded side for effectiveness) and make it a blast finisher so if the players working with some sense of team work gives the Guardian way to thru his own Symbols cleanse the team or through other fields augment the effectiveness of his party, but at the same time requiring coordination to allow the guardian to get the effect off.

5. Line of Warding: Again don't drastically change it, even if I was right on the double tap dodge roll thru weakness but I do agree with you on adding an additional effect for passing thru the Ward. My view would be more of an enemies/allies split where the enemy receives a condition

but the ally either gets a condition cleared or flipped to a boon.You would have to consider how to work this in the sense of the conditions applied and for that matter those that are removed or flipped or it could easily get out of hand.

Now any, all or none of these could come into play either via a baseline change to the weapon or via traitlines and while I'm not saying these are in anyway prefect , which I'm some players out there could do much better, I am saying that this example of changes could make the staff a more useful support weapon for all of the types of Guardian in all of the play styles.

Note: On further consideration I can't say absolutely that the Line of Warding can be double tapped dodge rolled thru because all the times that I have seen it or done it the situation was very dynamic and there would be no way to be sure that the wasn't other factors involved but at the time it appeared to work that way.

Despite the description, this skill is ground targeted. Additionally, the line is not unpassable. It acts like a tripwire by causing knockdown, but if the foe has stability or is otherwise immune to knockdowns they can pass through unaffected.

Yes we can, but it's insanely difficult. Mostly because you don't know how either three gamemodes are played (no offence, it's just literally the truth.) It's difficult to have a discussion like this because most players just aren't even on this page. It's nearly impossible. They don't even consider the other gamemodes, and instead just say "I don't care" or ignore it completely... I'm not going to be nice regarding bad suggestions, i'm just going to say they're bad. If that makes me an awful toxic person, then so be it. Sorry.

i.e. projectile reflect doesn't help PvE much either. Much better in PvP and WvW than in PvE and already very good on guard (wall of reflection, FB F3 3, ...). Ashes of just is a decent suggestion, but this only adds DPS (ashes applies the burn as counting from the guardian, not counting from the player that applies it.) So ashes would make staff a DPS oriented weapon (giving it more burn and even less identity). Reflect is again a buff for PvP and WvW more than for PvE.

So i'd say both are still bad suggestions. I guess ashes of just isn't too awful as burn / support hybrids in PvE are a thing (even if they go nowhere near staff - that's something that could be fixed).

Consider something like orb of light applying fury / might / alacrity to players it PASSES THROUGH. In PvP / WvW you normally double tap it for the instant burst heal. Making it so that you want to move it through the group to apply buffs would make you have real choices between "healing" and "buffing" players and maybe make it more fun (?). Or maybe make the symbol give an extra bonus if your allies stand in it the entire time (?) which is also fairly rare in WvW / PvP; but very doable in PvE.

@"Etheri.5406" said:Again, all "flair" stuff that doesn't impact the fact that STAFF won't be used in PVE anywhere.You pretend all the support comes from tomes yet staff 2 doubletap is amazing to use in between two tomes and empower is staple in both WvW and PvP. You want to "empower" while moving? Doesn't make it ANY better in PvE while it's a massive buff for PvP and WvW.

Ward isn't "fun enough" yet it's undodgable CC at 1.2k range. Let's rework it to something that... still no support in PvE would use. Wards create temporary "terrain" making them not dodgeable, but also not apply CC unless you try to walk through. They're self-consistent and they do interact with both dashes (which they prevent) versus teleports (which they allow).

You pretend nobody uses staff because it's unfun or badly designed, when in reality it's just not a PvE weapon which is perfectly fine. Same for staff on necro and hammer on warrior. These are not PVE weapons and they will never be amazing in PVE, which is fine.

Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

Yeah, mobile empower would be a "massive" buff which make staff go from mediocre, to maybe a little bit decent. No problem there.

Don't even try and spin Line of Warding as a decent or powerful skill. It's one of the worst offenders as far as bad staff skills go. LoW is essentially the same as Elementalist earth staff 4 (which by the way synergizes with their trait Lightning Rod) but is objectively worse. Lets go over some additional facts about this skill: You can actually shadowstep/teleport through it (if the line from your point A to point B crosses directly through LoW, you won't be knocked down). You can very easily walk around it (which wastes maybe 0.25 to 0.5 seconds of your time) and it's almost completely useless in pve (can NOT cc a stationary target with it).

I don't pretend nobody uses staff. People use it because of a lack of better options. Anet likely has some statistic to read off that tells them that people use staff so it must be in a good spot. I complain because I don't think it's in a good spot. It needs some love.

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:Again, all "flair" stuff that doesn't impact the fact that STAFF won't be used in PVE anywhere.You pretend all the support comes from tomes yet staff 2 doubletap is amazing to use in between two tomes and empower is staple in both WvW and PvP. You want to "empower" while moving? Doesn't make it ANY better in PvE while it's a massive buff for PvP and WvW.

Ward isn't "fun enough" yet it's undodgable CC at 1.2k range. Let's rework it to something that... still no support in PvE would use. Wards create temporary "terrain" making them not dodgeable, but also not apply CC unless you try to walk through. They're self-consistent and they do interact with both dashes (which they prevent) versus teleports (which they allow).

You pretend nobody uses staff because it's unfun or badly designed, when in reality it's just not a PvE weapon which is perfectly fine. Same for staff on necro and hammer on warrior. These are not PVE weapons and they will never be amazing in PVE, which is fine.

Give suggestions that ACTUALLY buff fb's ability to support in PvE rather than roleplay-based stuff please.

In pvp dropping lines in front or behind enemies predicting their movement is trivial. As a support you can drop a line on your DPS and repetively walk through, back and forth. It might only take them a few seconds to walk around, but it effectively buys you several seconds of "free time" unless they have stab or forces them to use cooldowns. It can also interupt various skills which are otherwise dodges and hard to CC, such as vault spam or rev sword 3.

In WvW dropping lines behind enemies during pirateship is standard. Dropping lines behind / inside your bubbles and pulling players just in front of them, only for them to waste dodges straight into the line due to panic is too.

Sure, in a vacuum the skill looks terrible. But that's probably because you're not being creative with their use. As soon as players run to the portal, 1 line stops them from getting there. Whenever you're fighting in a choke or narrow space, a single line is enough to prevent people from passing.

In WvW, I use line frequently and it grants me far more kills than symbol or the auto attack. If staff is so bad, why is it the main support weapon on FB? Because it sure as hell isn't mace which isn't even ran in PvP at high rating (where sword mobility > mace) nor as useful as staff considering a range-dominant meta.

I'm sorry that the CC on staff requires you to think about your positioning with the skill in order for it to be effective. Even if you can literally drop it straight on top of yourself or an ally and walk back and forth through it denying the enemy the chance to melee you at any point, or it allows the use from range to keep players in your AoE longer. I'm sorry empower requires you to think about where you stand before healing and buffing everyone around you. I understand this is awful gamedesign where "simple" skills that require thought and good placement are bad game design.

@Artyport.2084 said:The staff isn’t fun. I’m just trying to make it more fun. Sure it has its function In wvw. But show me a pve player that find it interesting and making suggestions for that.

Pvp players generally care about functionality but yes as person who runs around the pve world and would like to use the staff for fantasy reasons it’s current interation is severely lacking

I agree that staff is pretty boring on Guard I usually only play Firebrand for WvW and it is simply a must have on all guardian builds, Im not going to talk about what should happen with it but perhaps the #1 skill can be split to have the reduced range in WvW/PvP and keep the old range in PvE