Rocket boots, blast at jump (start) or at land (end) position? (currently blast at landing)

I personally think that a blast at landing is normally a blast wasted, specially when playing with organized groups where group blast in regroup is a fundamental part of team play (healing, cleansing, invisibility). What do you guys think?

Rocket boots is weirdly inconsistent in this regard -- it acts like a leap finisher where any field you travel through can grant the finisher, but it's considered a blast finisher. If it was converted into a leap finisher, it would make more sense as it is. If it's supposed to be a blast, then it should be when you start the skill.

Honestly both seems more logical, since its the same as a rifle #5.

Rocket Boots: No blast, but full evade frames.

@Ardid.7203 said:Rocket Boots: No blast, but full evade frames.

Bad idea. Holosmith could take advantage of that and have two full evade frames, giving it even more sustain than it currently has.

Both RB and Jump Shot should be a Blast into a Leap. Blasting Zone isn't utilized enough anyway.

Make it freaking ground targeted already.

the good thing about it being on landing is that u can hit enemies and still get the stealth off if u blast a smoke field

That's not exactly how it works. The CHECK is in the beginning, only the EFFECT is in the end. If you jump from a smoke into a fire field for example, you're still gonna get stealth in the end of the jump. It's perfect the way it is, even an adventage as you won't get revealed by hitting something with it!

@"Xyonon.3987" said:That's not exactly how it works. The CHECK is in the beginning, only the EFFECT is in the end. If you jump from a smoke into a fire field for example, you're still gonna get stealth in the end of the jump. It's perfect the way it is, even an adventage as you won't get revealed by hitting something with it!

The check is at the beginning to look for a field and the effect applies on landing "on everybody around you at landing place", I think everybody that participated in this thread knows perfectly how it works. The ONLY case of it being and advantage is the one you are describing, where you don't mind about the rest of your party combing invi with you and being revealed and you getting invi at landing with the rest of your party revealed (if some other ally is combing invi and you benefit from it before jumping you will also be revealed so you will not be able to get your own combo at landing because the revealed effect will still be on you). You are describing a "yolo" situation, when you are combing your own smoke field or taking profit of someone else's field and you don't mind them getting revealed. This a collaborative game that promotes collaboration and, looking at the poll results, most of the people thinks the same. The effect at landing 900 range away is useless from a teamplay perspective, unless you want to give support at someone away from you (probably not in your party, as they will be combing together), if this case happens, you have to aim to someone that is not in your party to give him some invi or some heal or some condi cleanse. I admit that it can happen, but 95% os times the situation in a teamplay party will be the one we all think logic, regrouping together to collaborate combing a field and ALL getting the benefit, not only you 900 yards away.

Looking at the poll results, I hope to see some response from engineer developers anytime soon.

@Blackfish.7349 said:Looking at the poll results, I hope to see some response from engineer developers anytime soon.

What engineer developers?

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Blackfish.7349 said:Looking at the poll results, I hope to see some response from engineer developers anytime soon.

Ha! Gottem

hey Anet, gonna do something on that issue, look at the poll please, the results show clearly that rocket boots blast needs a change! Also you can look at its brother toolbelt skill, the kick is totally useless: low damage, low range, slow animation, no stun, no daze, just a meaningless burn....

Makes complete sense to change this, from a gameplay perspective and a visual perspective.

The only time there's a "BLAST" graphic and sound, it's when you first use the skill... that obviously should be the location and timing of the blast. It works like an awkward combination of Blast/Leap finishers .. you fly through the air, blasting the first field you come in contact with... when you land. Wut?

Leave it alone. This is what you use the rifle's Jump Shot for. You want to do damage coming or blast and going then pull out your trusty rifle. The Rocket Boot is made different by only doing damage at the landing point. But it has a longer range (900 to 800), is an ammo skill, and can remove three movement impairing conditions. The ammo skill thing is big as you can cross 1800 in a relatively short time. You add in Jump Shot and now you can make 2600 easy. The thing of it is, if you did blast as you were leaving, they'd rebalance the skill. They are not going to want two such abilities doing damage as you leave but leaving the Rocket Boot otherwise unchanged. It's a fairly strong combo. Jump Shot does damage coming and going and lets you target where you are going so that's where it really shines.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Make it freaking ground targeted already.

So you just want an extra Jump Shot skill then?

@Blackfish.7349 said:

@"Xyonon.3987" said:That's not exactly how it works. The

CHECK

is in the beginning, only the

EFFECT

is in the end. If you jump from a smoke into a fire field for example, you're still gonna get stealth in the end of the jump. It's perfect the way it is,

even an adventage

as you won't get revealed by hitting something with it!

I don't put a whole lot of stock in a forum poll. It's unscientific and would never even remotely meet the required thresholds that a poll needs to meet before its results should be taken seriously. Also, you discussed what you wanted but you didn't discuss what you'd give up. People who make these suggestions seem to not really think about in-game balance. They just assume that if a skill doesn't do something they want to do with it (even though a skill exists that does EXACTLY what they want to do) it would be given to you, free of charge. Not gonna happen. ANet is not likely to want Engineer to have two such skills. The two skills serve different purposes and you have to recognize that. There are plenty of advantages to Rocket Boots as is. If you want to do damage or blast when you're leaving then just use Jump Shot. It is a far superior skill for that kind of thing anyway. You'll notice that Jump Shot does damage leaving but it doesn't do nearly as much as Rocket Boots in terms of additional benefits aside from moving away. You know why that is? Balance. Which is the primary reason why I dismiss poll results. The people who voted yes have yet to discuss, on any level, the balance implications of the change (the secondary reason is that the poll has 29 responses and the Engineer community is magnitudes higher than that).

As for team play, hmmmmm I have to say if you feel that Engineer isn't being a team player because Rocket Boots does no damage on departure then you should stop playing Engineer. The profession is filled to the brim with abilities that provide no benefit for anyone other than the Engineer activating it. The whole team play aspect of Rocket Boots is in the strategic use of the skill. If you are using it in your "team" fashion then that means you need to be using it to leap into the fray, not away from it. Like seriously, damage, when you leave, is just not a big team ability. Jump Shot does 169 damage when you leave with it. That is a pitiful amount of damage and I can promise you your change to Rocket Boots wouldn't increase the damage higher than that. Then there is the fact that if the current use of Rocket Boots screws with team collaboration then you are working with a bad team anyway.

Hands down, a well-built Engineer has some of the best movement options in the game when combined well. Rocket Boots is fine as is for the role it was given.

@Blackfish.7349 said:Looking at the poll results, I hope to see some response from engineer developers anytime soon.

They won't care about this poll. Like, at all. On no level. This poll in no way gives them any insight into what Engineer players want.

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Blackfish.7349 said:Looking at the poll results, I hope to see some response from engineer developers anytime soon.

+1

@Blackfish.7349 said:hey Anet, gonna do something on that issue, look at the poll please, the results show clearly that rocket boots blast needs a change! Also you can look at its brother toolbelt skill, the kick is totally useless: low damage, low range, slow animation, no stun, no daze, just a meaningless burn....

mmmmmm yeaaaaaahhh, no. The results show nothing. Just a handful of folks who want a change on an unimportant skill.

@Xyonon.3987 said:That's not exactly how it works. The CHECK is in the beginning, only the EFFECT is in the end. If you jump from a smoke into a fire field for example, you're still gonna get stealth in the end of the jump. It's perfect the way it is, even an adventage as you won't get revealed by hitting something with it!

Oh snap, I didn't know that the hit wouldn't affect your ability to stealth in smoke fields. That's useful to know!

@Eastcorn.5901 said:

@Xyonon.3987 said:That's not exactly how it works. The

CHECK

is in the beginning, only the

EFFECT

is in the end. If you jump from a smoke into a fire field for example, you're still gonna get stealth in the end of the jump. It's perfect the way it is,

even an adventage

as you won't get revealed by hitting something with it!

The blast happening earlier would be better without waiting if it were a condition removal or healing blast. Not so cut and dry helpful the way it is now

In WvW, it'd be nice to be able to contribute to a group might/stealth stack with that blast. I'm pretty sure the team doesn't get the effects if they're in the field and you rocket-boots out to blast it. Actually, might need to test this.. now I can't remember.

Pretty minor concern though.. I'd prefer them to focus their efforts on other things (balance? please? please? Make core/scrapper/condi playable again). At least the RB blast kinda works in its current state.

@coro.3176 said:In WvW, it'd be nice to be able to contribute to a group might/stealth stack with that blast. I'm pretty sure the team doesn't get the effects if they're in the field and you rocket-boots out to blast it. Actually, might need to test this.. now I can't remember.

Pretty minor concern though.. I'd prefer them to focus their efforts on other things (balance? please? please? Make core/scrapper/condi playable again). At least the RB blast kinda works in its current state.

I confirm you that the team does not get the effects of the blast, because the effects do not happen in the jumping place but in the landing place.

@"Dace.8173" said:Leave it alone. This is what you use the rifle's Jump Shot for. You want to do damage coming or blast and going then pull out your trusty rifle. The Rocket Boot is made different by only doing damage at the landing point. But it has a longer range (900 to 800), is an ammo skill, and can remove three movement impairing conditions. The ammo skill thing is big as you can cross 1800 in a relatively short time. You add in Jump Shot and now you can make 2600 easy. The thing of it is, if you did blast as you were leaving, they'd rebalance the skill. They are not going to want two such abilities doing damage as you leave but leaving the Rocket Boot otherwise unchanged. It's a fairly strong combo. Jump Shot does damage coming and going and lets you target where you are going so that's where it really shines.

Mate, we do not need a description of the rocket boots skill...we know the range, and how it works. I think that you are totally missing the point. This debate is not about damage or range, is about blast combo effect and its area of application. But if you want to talk about damage, you are incorrect: rocket boots do damage as you jump, like jump shot, the difference is that jump shot also does damage at landing spot and rocket boots does not.

I don't put a whole lot of stock in a forum poll. It's unscientific and would never even remotely meet the required thresholds that a poll needs to meet before its results should be taken seriously. Also, you discussed what you wanted but you didn't discuss what you'd give up. People who make these suggestions seem to not really think about in-game balance. They just assume that if a skill doesn't do something they want to do with it (even though a skill exists that does EXACTLY what they want to do) it would be given to you, free of charge. Not gonna happen. ANet is not likely to want Engineer to have two such skills. The two skills serve different purposes and you have to recognize that. There are plenty of advantages to Rocket Boots as is. If you want to do damage or blast when you're leaving then just use Jump Shot. It is a far superior skill for that kind of thing anyway. You'll notice that Jump Shot does damage leaving but it doesn't do nearly as much as Rocket Boots in terms of additional benefits aside from moving away. You know why that is? Balance. Which is the primary reason why I dismiss poll results. The people who voted yes have yet to discuss, on any level, the balance implications of the change (the secondary reason is that the poll has 29 responses and the Engineer community is magnitudes higher than that).

So where are your credentials to talk in the name of Anet? So this poll is not a poll for you because you said so? Mate, this forum has the option to introduce polls and I think Anet appreciates such feature because they have allowed to used it here. The results of the poll are quite conclusive in the sense that most people participating want a change in the rocket boots "field blast mechanics". Do you want a mega poll with all the guild wars community participating to be valid? Engineer is the least popular class in GW2 and the rocket boots blast mechanics are quite complex to understand (even you do not understand) so do not expect a lot of people participating here.

As for team play, hmmmmm I have to say if you feel that Engineer isn't being a team player because Rocket Boots does no damage on departure then you should stop playing Engineer. The profession is filled to the brim with abilities that provide no benefit for anyone other than the Engineer activating it. The whole team play aspect of Rocket Boots is in the strategic use of the skill. If you are using it in your "team" fashion then that means you need to be using it to leap into the fray, not away from it. Like seriously, damage, when you leave, is just not a big team ability. Jump Shot does 169 damage when you leave with it. That is a pitiful amount of damage and I can promise you your change to Rocket Boots wouldn't increase the damage higher than that. Then there is the fact that if the current use of Rocket Boots screws with team collaboration then you are working with a bad team anyway.

You insist talking about the damage of the skill, and I insist you again that this discussion is not about damage...

They won't care about this poll. Like, at all. On no level. This poll in no way gives them any insight into what Engineer players want.

You again talk in the name of Anet...mmmmmm yeaaaaaahhh, no. The results show nothing. Just a handful of folks who want a change on an unimportant skill.

If we are a hadful of folks and the skill is unimportant...why you take so much time and writing to reply us with this totally nonsense description of rocket boots ?(you have no idea how they work, even in the superimportant aspect of the damage, which is not the object of this discussion). Please, go deeper in the study on rocket boots blast field location mechanics and come again to give a constructive opinion.

@"Blackfish.7349" said:Mate, we do not need a description of the rocket boots skill...we know the range, and how it works. I think that you are totally missing the point. This debate is not about damage or range, is about blast combo effect and its area of application. But if you want to talk about damage, you are incorrect: rocket boots do damage as you jump, like jump shot, the difference is that jump shot also does damage at landing spot and rocket boots does not.

I describe the skills in order to make my point about the benefits of one set of skills over another set of skills. I've learned that not everyone actually knows all of what a skill does, only part of what a skill does (typically the just the part they want to change). Thus, in order to have a proper conversation, I describe what I see is good or bad about a skill. Damage and range have bearing on this discussion as they play into why a skill works the way it does. You can't answer the question you asked by isolating the skills and looking at them in a vacuum. The lack of a blast field is due, in part, to all the extra stuff that this skill does over Jump Shot. We have a point of comparison from which to judge what ANet considers balanced for having a blast finisher on a skill. Thus, if we are talking about adding a blast finisher we also need to consider what we would be willing to give up in order to have the blast finisher.

So where are your credentials to talk in the name of Anet? So this poll is not a poll for you because you said so? Mate, this forum has the option to introduce polls and I think Anet appreciates such feature because they have allowed to used it here. The results of the poll are quite conclusive in the sense that most people participating want a change in the rocket boots "field blast mechanics". Do you want a mega poll with all the guild wars community participating to be valid? Engineer is the least popular class in GW2 and the rocket boots blast mechanics are quite complex to understand (even you do not understand) so do not expect a lot of people participating here.

No, it's not a real poll with real data points (and I do have the credentials to state that). It's logic dude. Your poll has 35 votes. There are hundreds of players who play Engineer. Your poll doesn't reflect what the entire Engineer community wants. Just 35 people. If ANet actually cared about these polls you'd see a lot more changes there is always a poll that says this or wants that and it doesn't get done. The result are not conclusive in the least (another thing I have the credentials to say). A conclusive poll results would have a larger sample size. The fact that Engineer is the least popular profession has no bearing on this because the Engineer population is much much much larger than 35 people. At present, we know that there are at least 161,533 characters, which gives us a rough idea on the number of players. Your 35 people is a drop in the bucket in regards to that.

Not conclusive, in the least (again, I have the credentials to make a statement like that).

You insist talking about the damage of the skill, and I insist you again that this discussion is not about damage...

Damage is a factor in this. Look at the other skills with blast finishers.

You again talk in the name of Anet...

Look at the number of the polls on this forums and then look at the number of changes based on those polls. That tells you all you need to know on how ANet feels about user polls. If they paid attention to the polls that show up on this forum the game would be radically different, a chaotic mess. We know this from the various polls on this forum. We know this from the number of polls that show conflicting player desires.

Read the polls. Look at the changes in the game. You will see that the two do not line up. Magnify that by six years worth of polls and six years worth of changes and again, you will see, they don't line up. There is no logical reason why you would be the one poll they suddenly listen to. As a matter of fact, swing on down to the Necromancer forums. Look at the number of polls they have and then ask them how responsive ANet is to those polls. They'll tell you, ANet doesn't really seem to care about their polls. You don't have to take my word for how unimportant these things are in the grand scope of things. There are plenty of other people who can tell you. Most folks make use of polls for fun. However, they are not representive of the Engineer community as a whole and are an extremely horrible measure for what Engineer players really want (again, got the creditentals to back a statement like that).

If we are a hadful of folks and the skill is unimportant...why you take so much time and writing to reply us with this totally nonsense description of rocket boots ?(you have no idea how they work, even in the superimportant aspect of the damage, which is not the object of this discussion). Please, go deeper in the study on rocket boots blast field location mechanics and come again to give a constructive opinion.

Me taking the time to refute the logic of the poll doesn't somehow mean this is important (though it does amuse me that you seem to think that if I comment then the matter must be important). A thread doesn't need to be important for me to want to give my input. In the grand scope of things, most of the threads on the forums are unimportant. I comment on all sorts of threads. Just because I comment here doesn't mean its important or meaningful. Additionally, getting one aspect wrong does not mean I don't understand the skill. There are tons of skills in the game, everyone is bound to get something wrong about them. It was a minor mistake, one you cannot use to dodge the questions I possed to you. My analysis of the situation isn't dependent on which end the damage is given (the part I got wrong). It changes nothing on the matter of balance, what ANet considers balanced for this skill or the fact that Engineer already has the skill you want. Engineer has the skill you want in Jump Shot. We know what ANet considers a balanced skill for what you are requesting. Rocket Boots does more than Jump Shot. This means they will rebalance the skill to compensate for the new interaction. This rebalance will take something away from Rocket Boots. So what are you willing to give up to get two Jump Shots? Why should it be given up? You asked me to go deeper but I went deeper than you had gone as I not only considered the skill you wanted but the implication of the changes, IE balance. A balance discussion is much deeper than what you were attempting to do, which was find out who supports your idea.

Also, asking about balance is a constructive opinion. It's an important part of any discussion. The fact that it disagrees with yours doesn't make it any less constructive. How do you intend to rebalance the skill? It will be rebalanced, I can promise you that. We have a skill that does exactly what you want so they are going to change it and remove things to pull it in line with the other ability.

I like to see it do 2 or 3 blast one at the start and one at the end (the 3ed would be in-between but maybe a leap would work better there).

A very long time ago, when Rocket Boots used to launch you waaay backwards, the blast was at the start. I used it on my smoke bombs to get out of hairy situations and compensate for the fact it was a launch instead of a dash. I miss that. I also don't get why it shouldn't be at the start from any perspective anyways.