Endgame Runes and Sigil are boring

Just stack your roles primary stat. + Dmg + Condi or +Boon. Cookie cutter everything nothing unique. Most of the unused trash upgrades could be deleted from the game and nobody would miss them. Stop making BiS raw stats and add more useful play style variants for build diversity.

I agree, there are tons of runes and sigils but the used ones are just a small bunch in meta builds. Let us be able to summon our parrot in raids with Superior Rune of the Privateer!

True, most runes and sigils are complete garbage and might as well be deleted from the game

they have their use in other game modes

@Sephylon.4938 said:they have their use in other game modes

Most of them have no use in any game mode aside from open world PvE.

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@"Sephylon.4938" said:they have their use in other game modes

@Sephylon.4938 said:they have their use in other game modes

For the life of me i can't see anything that doesn't grant primary stat boost being useful in other modes. Trapper, Snowfall and Perplexity used to do that, but they've been gutted. Same goes for others like Privateer, Golem and the spawning ones. They're only used when they can do more damage than the raw stats can give to the player.

So i tend to agree with the sentiment that runes/sigils need something done to them. Either stat compression or better set effects that aren't all encompassing +x modifer or stat value.

Agreedmost runes/sigils are dead boring

Still kinda sad that chrono runes don't apply quickness to 5 allies in the well. Necro giving quickness could have been interesting, probably not ever meta, but interesting. Hell, reaper runes being condi based would have been interesting during the chill based condi reaper days.

But it is clear why most good runes are stats and not qualitative effects, Anet is afraid of unforeseen interactions between the more interesting runes and current/future traits.

It would be nice if they did a balance pass on runes and sigils, maybe creating new alternatives or giving class specific alternatives (think spellbreaker runes but better).

I highly doubt this happens though.

You'll always have a single best pick for your build. Runes, sigils, stats. You can't have them all be optimal simultaneously, so obviously the majority of them will be underused. That's normal.

The only thing that bothers me is that even in condi reaper geomancy is superior then anything else. Even then hydromancy

@Feanor.2358 said:You'll always have a single best pick for your build. Runes, sigils, stats. You can't have them all be optimal simultaneously, so obviously the majority of them will be underused. That's normal.

Sure, but does the best thing always have to be the generalist stat thing, that's kinda the problem we face. Raw statisical value almost always outweighs the benefits from more specialized runes/sigils and that seems to be poorly thought out or at the very least poorly implemented.

@TexZero.7910 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:You'll always have a single best pick for your build. Runes, sigils, stats. You can't have them all be optimal simultaneously, so obviously the majority of them will be underused. That's normal.

It's just numbers. Air sigil is used despite being "more specialized". But in the end, it's just damage that matters. In very rare cases it's something else. Provided it translates to damage. Like Energy sigil on Mirage.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:You'll always have a single best pick for your build. Runes, sigils, stats. You can't have them all be optimal simultaneously, so obviously the majority of them will be underused. That's normal.

Well its not like they dont have options, they just dont use them. Runes and sigill could get quite op if reworked, for examble make a glyph for necro that gives your minions some new effects (pretty much similiar to diablo set bonuses):(2)When using a minion, you summon triple the amount.(4)Your minions get a 50% dmg increase as long as you are bleeding.(6)Instead of entering shroud, you give your minions a full barrier for 5sec.

Things like that. And make them pve only so you dont break things in pvp/wvw(and make unique for those modes too).

But i doubt they will do sth like this^^.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:You'll always have a single best pick for your build. Runes, sigils, stats. You can't have them all be optimal simultaneously, so obviously the majority of them will be underused. That's normal.

Air isn't specialized at all. It's quite literally just damage. There's more way's to go about this than your Air/Force/Scholar/Strength/ etc... as Xantaria pointed out. Ways that modify what a user can do which allows them to flesh out or modify gameplay. Yes people will gravitate toward this strongest things, but allowing niches to be carved out is better than having just a universal this does damage.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:You'll always have a single best pick for your build. Runes, sigils, stats. You can't have them all be optimal simultaneously, so obviously the majority of them will be underused. That's normal.

I think that's the point. Or at least I would like more options to be viable in fringe cases such as energy sigil on mirage. Looking at a lot of the runes, part of the problem is that they proc randomly when you get hit. Those type of runes, with the exception of durability, tend to be viable in neither pvp, wvw nor pve.

These runes for example.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_HolosmithThe wiki lies about the heat lvl for the runes affecting it. It's super weak compared to the actual skill, only hits 6 instead of 12 (or 18 with high heat) times and procs when you get hit below 75%. What if those runes cast the actual laser disk skill and was actually affected by heat level when you pressed your heal skill? Ideally would also give ferocity instead of vitality. Would it beat scholar for the meta build? Probably not for sustained damage but it could be viable/optimal in some niche burst dmg scenarios for Holo while it wouldn't work as well for other classes.

What if there was 175/100 power/ferocity runes with a 6 bonus that is 20-30% crit damage bonus that lasts 10 seconds when you cast your elite? 45 second CD.Weaver with FGS on a 180 second CD would't benefit so much from this. On the other hand, power SB, which is high burst and low sustained damage with sic'em and owp would get a huge benefit from runes like that and have even huger bursts but lower sustained damage. Other power DPS builds would likely be somewhere in between in benefiting from these runes. If you had legendary armor, most power DPS classes would likely swap between the two runes based off of how quick phases are in a fight.

It would just come down to numbers as you say but at least it could mix things up a bit.

@Feanor.2358 said:You'll always have a single best pick for your build. Runes, sigils, stats. You can't have them all be optimal simultaneously, so obviously the majority of them will be underused. That's normal.

Ye thats the way balance works. I dont think u get it, what ppl ask here is to lower the gap and allow rumes and sigils with more unique effects compete.

I agree. Endgame runes and sigils are really boring. Stat stacking is boring whether it's from traits or upgrade components. I wished they were all more interesting. even the infusions. I'm glad you made this post and I hope it reaches the devs.

@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:It would just come down to numbers as you say but at least it could mix things up a bit.

Pretty spot on.

As another example, changing scholar from x% damage above y%hp to, after x spell cast your next spell used is a perfected spell which will guarenteed auto crit and have no fall off damage. This promotes active combat and selection of the skills you want to amp/use and when to use them. Granted it would need an Icon or some UI element for people to know it's up/coming up but still.

@TexZero.7910 said:

@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:It would just come down to numbers as you say but at least it could mix things up a bit.

I think this is whats keeping them from doing such thing. The ui has been a thorn on their side often. They would need to change the ui in some way to lessen the clutter of boons effects and sigil/ rune popups. Alot of ppl have also been asking to make traits visible through the ui that are related to active gameplay.

Having runes to be a build defining factor like gems are in PoE would be very interesting. I just feel that Anet isn't ready to face such a challenge considering that they have issues with balancing as is. But a man can dream...

@NotOverlyCheesy.9427 said:Having runes to be a build defining factor like gems are in PoE would be very interesting. I just feel that Anet isn't ready to face such a challenge considering that they have issues with balancing as is. But a man can dream...

Yeah bu runes are unversal. Its much easier to balance something everyone has acess to rather than balance 2 diff classes for example.

@Xantaria.8726 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:You'll always have a single best pick for your build. Runes, sigils, stats. You can't have them all be optimal simultaneously, so obviously the majority of them will be underused. That's normal.

They probably won't. These are much harder to balance, and unlike D3 this game isn't designed to scale into the trillions of damage.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Xantaria.8726 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:You'll always have a single best pick for your build. Runes, sigils, stats. You can't have them all be optimal simultaneously, so obviously the majority of them will be underused. That's normal.

Depends on. You dont have to make them so OP like in D3 where got a DPS-Boost of 50x Times your dps. And they are easier to balance, cause you can seperate them completly from PvP, which is way easier then making skills and traits different over modes. I just used D3 as reference since they have the system (though its way over the top in there).