Sylvari Looks: Why aren't there Charr or Asura Sylvari?

The Sylvari look humanoid because they have copied the look of humans right? Well, why aren't there Charr Sylvari or Asura Sylvari? They can grow a mushroom on their head, be born without a nose or look like their face is made of bark, so why can't they be super short like the Asura, As tall as a tree like the norn, or look more animalistic like the charr? Surely a Mini-Mushroom Asura-based or a Treebeard-esk Norn-based would be neat to see. Not to mention the monstrosity known as Charr-Sylvari.

And while I understand the amount of work this would take for PCs, I'm also refering to NPCs. Two trees are already in cannon, so why can't there be a tree that landed near an Asura settlement or nearly burnt tree near the firey wastelands or Icy wilds which create Asura, Charr, and Norn Sylvari NPCs?

@MisterCheshire.4029 said:The Sylvari look humanoid because they have copied the look of humans right? Well, why aren't there Charr Sylvari or Asura Sylvari? They can grow a mushroom on their head, be born without a nose or look like their face is made of bark, so why can't they be super short like the Asura, As tall as a tree like the norn, or look more animalistic like the charr? Surely a Mini-Mushroom Asura-based or a Treebeard-esk Norn-based would be neat to see. Not to mention the monstrosity known as Charr-Sylvari.

And while I understand the amount of work this would take for PCs, I'm also refering to NPCs. Two trees are already in cannon, so why can't there be a tree that landed near an Asura settlement or nearly burnt tree near the firey wastelands or Icy wilds which create Asura, Charr, and Norn Sylvari NPCs?

Have you played Heart of Thorns?

Yes. I am up to date with it, and am aware with Mordroth's relation to the Sylvari.

I have yet to beat the "Path of Fire" however, so yeah.

Sylvari look like humans because the tree grew on a human mass grave - and the community around it in its early days was human too.

Simple.

Is that cannon? if so we need an offshoot and a Charr mass grave.

yes. Ronan planted the seed on the mass grave containing, among others, his family.

The rest is then established in LW2 and HoT.

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:Sylvari look like humans because the tree grew on a human mass grave - and the community around it in its early days was human too.

Simple.

While I don't doubt the truth of this for our Pale Tree, it makes me wonder why Malyck looks so humanoid.

@Musaroxy.2874 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:Sylvari look like humans because the tree grew on a human mass grave - and the community around it in its early days was human too.

Simple.

Given how badly the Humans lost against the Charr, they probably have many mass graves.

I recently replayed the chapter of LS2 involving Durmand's library with all those beautiful lore books. :)Malyck's case has even been brought up in one of those books, so I suppose there might be a little more to the humanoid look than what we know so far. It really is odd that he looks like the other Sylvari, if he really was born from another tree and if the looks really depend on the tree's location or experience.

Unfortunately, as we all know, Malyck's story has not been featured in HoT, so we can't know for sure. Still, the existance of that book proves that there is more to that part of the lore than we are aware of atm and that this is not a mistake by the dev team, but fully intentional. I hope one day we'll get the chance to learn more, even though the actual Sylvari story might be finished with HoT.

well, the trees are all in Maguuma. What people lived in Maguuma? Humans. Not charr. Not Norn. Asura? Very few around Rata Sum, but not really in the heart of maguuma (with the exception of Rata Novus, but that was chak territory, no trees there).

Sylvari look humanoid because the Pale Tree decided to make them look humanoid. This decision was based off of the short-lived (long-term speaking) community of Ventari's Sanctuary which settled around Ventari, Ronan, and the Pale Tree. We don't know the fate of any of those people, but they didn't last long enough to remain when sylvari were born for sure.

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:Sylvari look like humans because the tree grew on a human mass grave - and the community around it in its early days was human too.

Simple.

It actually has nothing to do with buried atop of a gravesite, just exposure. The Pale Tree was exposed only to humans and centaurs and decided humans were the better form to copy for the sylvari. Though it's possible that some asura were around in the Pale Tree's youth to influence it, not many were. And no charr (sans Pyre as a hero in EotN) ever were, or norn (sans Jora as a hero in EotN).

The question is why Malyck's tree made humanoid sylvari. The most likely answer being that it was exposed to humanoid explorers or something, but it's still unknown.

While the trees can't just 'land' somewhere- the seeds were in a cave that no one knows the location of, and the Pale Tree was very deliberately removed and planted on the site of the Grove- it wouldn't be lore-breaking to have asura or charr sylvari. It's just something the devs haven't seen a need to include. It's a neat idea, but it doesn't add much to the current story, and justifying it would require enough background lore to make it a potential headache.

That said, nature-worshiping charr were a neat idea, that didn't add much to the current story, and justifying them required enough background lore to make them a headache, and yet, we have those now. It opens the door for lettuce-ears and tuber-horns to be on the table going forward.

As I said earlier, the devs seriously lampshade Malyck's humanoid looks in the lore book in the Durmand Priory. That is not a coincidence. There must be something more behind it than the commonly known Ventari tale. Either that, or Malyck turns out to be an amnesiac Sylvari from the Grove who just happens to have forgotten the Pale Tree. :lol:

The whole story with the tree seed, Ronan and Ventari is so full of unusual and unlikely events, it's hard to imagine a similar group of adventurers just so happened to have the exact same idea at the same time. (Cause trees need time to grow. If another tree had been planted centuries earlier or later than our Pale Tree, Malyck couldn't have been around at the same time as our Sylvaris.)

So, until we get further info, especially on Malyck, I keep my doubts about the Ventari version. I suspect that for whatever reason the general humanoid and canine forms of tree offspring was Mordremoth's choice, not the Pale Tree's.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Sylvari look humanoid because the Pale Tree decided to make them look humanoid. This decision was based off of the short-lived (long-term speaking) community of Ventari's Sanctuary which settled around Ventari, Ronan, and the Pale Tree. We don't know the fate of any of those people, but they didn't last long enough to remain when sylvari were born for sure.

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:Sylvari look like humans because the tree grew on a human mass grave - and the community around it in its early days was human too.

Simple.

But it was due to the graves under it, Ronan's family and his Dog in particular. No centaur graves there at the time the seed was planted. A NPC in the grove talks about the fen hounds and wishes that they had cats as well. Since the tree gives birth to both Sylvari and the Hounds.So human graves under or near Malyck's tree makes a bit of sense as well with all the murders the White mantle likes to do out in the Heart of Maguma. Also myself and a few others in game joke that the Choya are just Sylvari Quaggan from the Crystal Desert since it was once a Sea and a mass grave of sea life wouldn't be to far of a stretch.

The pale tree is a cleansed blighting tree that much we know for sure. What cleansed her, we do not know, yet. But those tree are almost exclusively fed dead bodies to make copies. So yes, it was the grave that was the big difference.

We also know about 'a' cave. There could have been many, all over Maguuma - and Malycks tree might be a lot older than the pale tree. Maybe shortly before Malyck was done, it was busy producing Vinetooth.. then some white mantle guys come along, bury some victims nearby and bam. Or died themselves. Bam. Malyck. Or some Exalted candidates who did not made the cut died out there in the jungle, the tree got fed the bodies, bam. Malyck.

There are many ways why Malyck existed and why the pale tree does only humanoid sylvari and fen hounds. But they are all based on the same foundation:

dead bodies, ready to be copied.

The blessed Mother had the mass grave. A mass grave without asura, without centaurs, without norn, quaggan, skritt or charr.

@"starhunter.6015" said:But it was due to the graves under it, Ronan's family and his Dog in particular .

Again, incorrect. The whole grave thing was pure player speculation and was even disproven before the game launched:

The main key to the design was developing an obvious anatomy that clearly described the race as plant rather than an offshoot of human. However, because the race tightly relates to the essence of human due to the Pale Tree’s influences from Ronan, the overall form has a human silhouette. But if you look more closely, you’ll see the forms are really quite alien. They are a collection of abstract notions the Pale Tree had about what made up the human, as she really only saw the surface. They are a tree’s interpretation of humans.https://web.archive.org/web/20120201114735/http://www.talktyria.net/2011/08/11/sylvari-lore-interview-with-ree-soesbee-kristen-perry/

It has nothing to do with graves.

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:The pale tree is a cleansed blighting tree that much we know for sure. What cleansed her, we do not know, yet. But those tree are almost exclusively fed dead bodies to make copies. So yes, it was the grave that was the big difference.

The Blighting Trees were only capable of using corpses because of Zhaitan's death and Mordremoth absorbing part of the death domain from The All. This got proven in the Lore AFC in April:

The ability for corpses to be viable candidates is the ability Mordremoth gained from Zhaitan. Without Zhaitan's power, only the living could be placed in Blighting Pods, making "taking people alive" the only way to create clones. I believe living hosts still create stronger clones, however, hence the drive to still capture victims alive when possible.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/493906/#Comment_493906

In the Pale Tree's case, she basically did what Primordus does for destroyers, which is to create copies based off of what's seen, rather than hooking them up. Like comparing someone drawing from still life to someone tracing over another art piece. The Pale Tree and Primordus did the sketching, Mordremoth does tracing.

@MisterCheshire.4029 said:

@Musaroxy.2874 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:Sylvari look like humans because the tree grew on a human mass grave - and the community around it in its early days was human too.

Simple.

Snorts You say that like Ascalon wasn't a gigantic Charr mass grave for the better part of a thousand years.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Well according to the official wiki it still has not been disproven only unresolved due to the appearance of Malyck and the link to the Lore talk is no longer active to find sadly.Sylvari emerge fully formed from golden fruit pods which grow on the branches of the Pale Tree. While many scholars now speculate on the sylvari's humanoid appearance, the original explanation was that the Pale Tree based it on her knowledge of Ronan, creating an abstract image of human biology.[1] Malyck, who was born from a different tree, cast doubt upon the accuracy of this explanation, and the matter is considered unresolved.

@starhunter.6015 The wiki page for sylvari (and tbh, all player races) are grossly outdated. They were pretty much created pre-release, and anything learned since has been (poorly) tacted on like that. That line of doubt (which would be rather subjective, tbh) obviously presumes that Malyck's tree had no interactions with humans which is a foolish thing to believe knowing the White Mantle had remained in the Maguuma for quite some time (and even more so knowing about the Exalted who were originally humans until they arrived at Gilded Hollows).

With the new knowledge of humans who went into the Maguuma, along with the sylvari being dragon minions, and how Mordremoth creates minions (and that he needed Zhaitan's magic to utilize corpses, for some illogical-but-absolute reason), the notion that the sylvari were modeled off of live humans is now the only real solution.

A better question would probably be why we don’t see any “non-human” Mordrem. We either see the “evil Sylvari” versions or corrupt Maguuma monsters.

Given the diverse nature of The Pact you’d think we’d see replicas of all the other races as Modrem, courtesy of the spawning pod thingies.

@Oglaf.1074 said:A better question would probably be why we don’t see any “non-human” Mordrem. We either see the “evil Sylvari” versions or corrupt Maguuma monsters.

Given the diverse nature of The Pact you’d think we’d see replicas of all the other races as Modrem, courtesy of the spawning pod thingies.

Well we kinda do. We see a blighted Rytlock, Mordrem Clones of Zoija, and there is a blighted Eir too.

The lack of mordrem charr, norn, human, and asura is a bit strange for HoT, tbh. It might have to do with the time span, the entirety of HoT only took place over three months and sylvari take a while to grow. Mordremoth had access to hylek and saurians for longer than the Pact soldiers. We only got to see clones of Zojja and Eir at the end, so it wouldn't be too surprising that was roughly how long it'd take for Mordremoth to create clones from newly encountered species.

(the Blighted Eir and Rytlock that @Tyson.5160 mentions, though, were in the Dream and thus not actual mordrem)

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:The lack of mordrem charr, norn, human, and asura is a bit strange for HoT, tbh. It might have to do with the time span, the entirety of HoT only took place over three months and sylvari take a while to grow. Mordremoth had access to hylek and saurians for longer than the Pact soldiers. We only got to see clones of Zojja and Eir at the end, so it wouldn't be too surprising that was roughly how long it'd take for Mordremoth to create clones from newly encountered species.

(the Blighted Eir and Rytlock that @Tyson.5160 mentions, though, were in the Dream and thus not actual mordrem)

Yeah I was gonna mention they were in a dream state, Eir and Garm look partially like Mordrem, with the dark bark, however Rytlock and Tybalt have no change except for the orange eyes. Same can be said for most of the blighted dream mobs except for the boss mobs themselves.

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:A better question would probably be why we don’t see any “non-human” Mordrem. We either see the “evil Sylvari” versions or corrupt Maguuma monsters.

Given the diverse nature of The Pact you’d think we’d see replicas of all the other races as Modrem, courtesy of the spawning pod thingies.

Special, unique story-based encounters, yes. I’m talking about Mordremoth’s forces in general.