The Next Elite Spec; What Is Engineer Missing? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

The Next Elite Spec; What Is Engineer Missing?

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  • Peutrifectus.4830Peutrifectus.4830 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2018

    Shoulder mounted mounted gatling gun? And an espec that swaps pistol skills to power and rifle skills to condi? Ooooooooo

    Sparkr's Wonderful World of Engineering - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEONFRaJV2u2f12ytXEir9A

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    engie missing alacrity and quickness generator !

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • @Frostmane.9734 said:
    This won't be a fun answer, but I personally hope they don't develop another e-spec and use the energy to revamp core specs. There are tons for fun builds, across all professions, that the core game had that are just unplayable now. Let's get some remediation and build diversity before we expand again.

    I think that since we're going straight into season 5 rather than getting a new expansion and given the recent updates/reworks to things like Medkit, Phantasms, Guardian Staff, Herald, Deadeye and underwater combat, it's fair to assume that this is what's actually happening. Where the effort would be spent on producing new elite specs instead they are working on improving the flavour, fun factor and balance of existing mechanics and classes, both core and Heart of Thorns.

  • Majic.4801Majic.4801 Member ✭✭✭

    Long-range DPS is what I miss most in the Engineer. Yes, we can equip mortar or grenades, or drop a rocket turret, but when I play one of my Deadeyes, I'm reminded of how short-ranged most of the Engineer's real DPS options tend to be.

    So maybe something like Deadeye, but with splosions.

    "Not the same, real and true. True you feel inside. Always follow what is true." -- Sentry-skritt Bordekka
    "I am so much more important than whatever it is you're doing!" -- Explorer Hiffa
    "Harpy love hurts!" -- Shaman Shoba

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dedicant.6820 said:

    @Frostmane.9734 said:
    This won't be a fun answer, but I personally hope they don't develop another e-spec and use the energy to revamp core specs. There are tons for fun builds, across all professions, that the core game had that are just unplayable now. Let's get some remediation and build diversity before we expand again.

    I think that since we're going straight into season 5 rather than getting a new expansion and given the recent updates/reworks to things like Medkit, Phantasms, Guardian Staff, Herald, Deadeye and underwater combat, it's fair to assume that this is what's actually happening. Where the effort would be spent on producing new elite specs instead they are working on improving the flavour, fun factor and balance of existing mechanics and classes, both core and Heart of Thorns.

    Based on some of their comments, I actually think at some point in Season 5 we'll see a new set of Elite Specs. They've talked about finding new ways to deliver material that they would normally hold off for expansions. Since they've already added more mounts and legendaries I think the only thing left that comes with an expansion are the Elites.

  • I've only just started about a month ago, so not the most knowledgeable about the game/engineer in general, but that gun the engineer/holosmith uses during primed laser cannon (might not be the actual name), I'm gonna need that as an actual primary weapon if possible.
    Also a sniper rifle too, if the laser cannon can't happen, I want a sniper rifle.

  • NO MORE ELITE SPECS.

    Christ...

  • Fipmip.7219Fipmip.7219 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:

    @Frostmane.9734 said:
    This won't be a fun answer, but I personally hope they don't develop another e-spec and use the energy to revamp core specs. There are tons for fun builds, across all professions, that the core game had that are just unplayable now. Let's get some remediation and build diversity before we expand again.

    I think that since we're going straight into season 5 rather than getting a new expansion and given the recent updates/reworks to things like Medkit, Phantasms, Guardian Staff, Herald, Deadeye and underwater combat, it's fair to assume that this is what's actually happening. Where the effort would be spent on producing new elite specs instead they are working on improving the flavour, fun factor and balance of existing mechanics and classes, both core and Heart of Thorns.

    Based on some of their comments, I actually think at some point in Season 5 we'll see a new set of Elite Specs. They've talked about finding new ways to deliver material that they would normally hold off for expansions. Since they've already added more mounts and legendaries I think the only thing left that comes with an expansion are the Elites.

    they can still add boats/airships. maybe they'll encourage us to make new classes for the expac and give us two extra character slots.

  • @Schnitzel.8270 said:
    I've only just started about a month ago, so not the most knowledgeable about the game/engineer in general, but that gun the engineer/holosmith uses during primed laser cannon (might not be the actual name), I'm gonna need that as an actual primary weapon if possible.
    Also a sniper rifle too, if the laser cannon can't happen, I want a sniper rifle.

    If you wanna play with a sniper rifle, Thief gets that as their version of rifle with the Deadeye elite specialisation, there's a few sniper skins if you want the aesthetic (but not the gameplay) for your Engineer too.

  • Noha.3749Noha.3749 Member ✭✭✭

    Bombkit: just rework and improve something and make it viable.
    Toolkit: Improve the AA, tookit AA is completely useless. Would be fun if it was viable to run rifle for range and cc and toolkit for AA dmg and its utilities.
    Throw Mine: remove/replace/rework.

    Hammer: longer reach on AA, quicker animations and a slightly longer duration on reflect.
    Gyros: i dont need to comment this one.

    What do we need from a new elite?
    All suggestions this far are nice. I can see it work with longbow or staff, also mech/techsuit <3

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenoSpyro.1780 said:
    NO MORE ELITE SPECS.

    Christ...

    Elites are fun and is the method they have chosen to make changes to the professions. What's wrong with having more options, new abilities, and access to new weapons? I mean, if you don't like them then you don't have to use them but some of us do enjoy the change in playstyle they bring.

    @Schnitzel.8270 said:
    I've only just started about a month ago, so not the most knowledgeable about the game/engineer in general, but that gun the engineer/holosmith uses during primed laser cannon (might not be the actual name), I'm gonna need that as an actual primary weapon if possible.
    Also a sniper rifle too, if the laser cannon can't happen, I want a sniper rifle.

    We already have the rifle. So you just need to find the right skin. I recommend Deadeye's Rifle, Cursed Flintlock, Whisper's Secret Rifle, and of course The Predator. Now if you want to actually be a sniper then you really just need to play Deadeye. They're not likely to change Engineer to be a sniper. It doesn't really fit the theme of the profession. As for the Prime Light Beam, it's your Elite so you have access to it whenever you need it, so long as it's not in CD. So I'm not sure what you mean by "if it can't happen" as it's already a part of your arsenal.

    @Fipmip.7219 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:

    @Frostmane.9734 said:
    This won't be a fun answer, but I personally hope they don't develop another e-spec and use the energy to revamp core specs. There are tons for fun builds, across all professions, that the core game had that are just unplayable now. Let's get some remediation and build diversity before we expand again.

    I think that since we're going straight into season 5 rather than getting a new expansion and given the recent updates/reworks to things like Medkit, Phantasms, Guardian Staff, Herald, Deadeye and underwater combat, it's fair to assume that this is what's actually happening. Where the effort would be spent on producing new elite specs instead they are working on improving the flavour, fun factor and balance of existing mechanics and classes, both core and Heart of Thorns.

    Based on some of their comments, I actually think at some point in Season 5 we'll see a new set of Elite Specs. They've talked about finding new ways to deliver material that they would normally hold off for expansions. Since they've already added more mounts and legendaries I think the only thing left that comes with an expansion are the Elites.

    they can still add boats/airships. maybe they'll encourage us to make new classes for the expac and give us two extra character slots.

    I can't tell if you are being genuine, sarcastic, or flippant for no real reason. Though I wouldn't mind a boat or access to an airship. But I see nothing wrong with getting things like Elites during a Living World season as opposed to having to wait until they get around to making a new expansion.

  • Fipmip.7219Fipmip.7219 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @XenoSpyro.1780 said:
    NO MORE ELITE SPECS.

    Christ...

    Elites are fun and is the method they have chosen to make changes to the professions. What's wrong with having more options, new abilities, and access to new weapons? I mean, if you don't like them then you don't have to use them but some of us do enjoy the change in playstyle they bring.

    @Schnitzel.8270 said:
    I've only just started about a month ago, so not the most knowledgeable about the game/engineer in general, but that gun the engineer/holosmith uses during primed laser cannon (might not be the actual name), I'm gonna need that as an actual primary weapon if possible.
    Also a sniper rifle too, if the laser cannon can't happen, I want a sniper rifle.

    We already have the rifle. So you just need to find the right skin. I recommend Deadeye's Rifle, Cursed Flintlock, Whisper's Secret Rifle, and of course The Predator. Now if you want to actually be a sniper then you really just need to play Deadeye. They're not likely to change Engineer to be a sniper. It doesn't really fit the theme of the profession. As for the Prime Light Beam, it's your Elite so you have access to it whenever you need it, so long as it's not in CD. So I'm not sure what you mean by "if it can't happen" as it's already a part of your arsenal.

    @Fipmip.7219 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:

    @Frostmane.9734 said:
    This won't be a fun answer, but I personally hope they don't develop another e-spec and use the energy to revamp core specs. There are tons for fun builds, across all professions, that the core game had that are just unplayable now. Let's get some remediation and build diversity before we expand again.

    I think that since we're going straight into season 5 rather than getting a new expansion and given the recent updates/reworks to things like Medkit, Phantasms, Guardian Staff, Herald, Deadeye and underwater combat, it's fair to assume that this is what's actually happening. Where the effort would be spent on producing new elite specs instead they are working on improving the flavour, fun factor and balance of existing mechanics and classes, both core and Heart of Thorns.

    Based on some of their comments, I actually think at some point in Season 5 we'll see a new set of Elite Specs. They've talked about finding new ways to deliver material that they would normally hold off for expansions. Since they've already added more mounts and legendaries I think the only thing left that comes with an expansion are the Elites.

    they can still add boats/airships. maybe they'll encourage us to make new classes for the expac and give us two extra character slots.

    I can't tell if you are being genuine, sarcastic, or flippant for no real reason. Though I wouldn't mind a boat or access to an airship. But I see nothing wrong with getting things like Elites during a Living World season as opposed to having to wait until they get around to making a new expansion.

    semi flippant. i agree new elites are fun and im always hype for them but I cant help but wonder what dedicating serious resources towards refining the rest of the classes and elites would do for the overall health of the game. would it be worth skipping a season of elites?

    Take ele. there are 20 skills on core ele staff alone. then the dagger/scepter/focus combinations. then the dozens of traits. then the elites. tens more skills underwater too. How do you even begin to make a meaningful change to that? one that keeps the class fun, balances the class and defines its role with respect to the other 8 classes, with their weapons, traits, elites and skills? it would take months of work if not years to start considering it, learning every facet of the game. Or, lets just keep adding more elites i suppose. Like I said I don't know. Many would like to see the game be more balanced.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fipmip.7219 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @XenoSpyro.1780 said:
    NO MORE ELITE SPECS.

    Christ...

    Elites are fun and is the method they have chosen to make changes to the professions. What's wrong with having more options, new abilities, and access to new weapons? I mean, if you don't like them then you don't have to use them but some of us do enjoy the change in playstyle they bring.

    @Schnitzel.8270 said:
    I've only just started about a month ago, so not the most knowledgeable about the game/engineer in general, but that gun the engineer/holosmith uses during primed laser cannon (might not be the actual name), I'm gonna need that as an actual primary weapon if possible.
    Also a sniper rifle too, if the laser cannon can't happen, I want a sniper rifle.

    We already have the rifle. So you just need to find the right skin. I recommend Deadeye's Rifle, Cursed Flintlock, Whisper's Secret Rifle, and of course The Predator. Now if you want to actually be a sniper then you really just need to play Deadeye. They're not likely to change Engineer to be a sniper. It doesn't really fit the theme of the profession. As for the Prime Light Beam, it's your Elite so you have access to it whenever you need it, so long as it's not in CD. So I'm not sure what you mean by "if it can't happen" as it's already a part of your arsenal.

    @Fipmip.7219 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:

    @Frostmane.9734 said:
    This won't be a fun answer, but I personally hope they don't develop another e-spec and use the energy to revamp core specs. There are tons for fun builds, across all professions, that the core game had that are just unplayable now. Let's get some remediation and build diversity before we expand again.

    I think that since we're going straight into season 5 rather than getting a new expansion and given the recent updates/reworks to things like Medkit, Phantasms, Guardian Staff, Herald, Deadeye and underwater combat, it's fair to assume that this is what's actually happening. Where the effort would be spent on producing new elite specs instead they are working on improving the flavour, fun factor and balance of existing mechanics and classes, both core and Heart of Thorns.

    Based on some of their comments, I actually think at some point in Season 5 we'll see a new set of Elite Specs. They've talked about finding new ways to deliver material that they would normally hold off for expansions. Since they've already added more mounts and legendaries I think the only thing left that comes with an expansion are the Elites.

    they can still add boats/airships. maybe they'll encourage us to make new classes for the expac and give us two extra character slots.

    I can't tell if you are being genuine, sarcastic, or flippant for no real reason. Though I wouldn't mind a boat or access to an airship. But I see nothing wrong with getting things like Elites during a Living World season as opposed to having to wait until they get around to making a new expansion.

    semi flippant. i agree new elites are fun and im always hype for them but I cant help but wonder what dedicating serious resources towards refining the rest of the classes and elites would do for the overall health of the game. would it be worth skipping a season of elites?

    Take ele. there are 20 skills on core ele staff alone. then the dagger/scepter/focus combinations. then the dozens of traits. then the elites. tens more skills underwater too. How do you even begin to make a meaningful change to that? one that keeps the class fun, balances the class and defines its role with respect to the other 8 classes, with their weapons, traits, elites and skills? it would take months of work if not years to start considering it, learning every facet of the game. Or, lets just keep adding more elites i suppose. Like I said I don't know. Many would like to see the game be more balanced.

    Well, some of these issues would still exist if they introduced Elites during an expansion. They would either be diverting resources to bringing us new Living World material or new expansion material. Like that's a given and something they rightfully should focus on to some extent. I think the issue is that the expansions aren't making them the kind of money they likely need them to make. I saw youtube video discussing this matter and they showed a clear drop after the initial spike of an expansion. Offering Elites during a season may be the kind of thing that keeps people engaged in the game and money flowing into the game as opposed to just a sudden spike at the release of an expansion and then a drop-off. They can still refine the current professions and elites, as we've seen them do just that during this current season. However, let's be honest, that isn't the kind of thing that is going to keep the community engaged for any length of time. I don't see bringing us new Elites and refining current mechanics as mutually exclusive activities. More so if instead of putting resources into an expansion team those resources are kept in Living World material and profession mechanics material.

    After all, if they were working on a new expansion the issues you highlight would still be present. They have shown they make balance changes as things progress. We've seen it this season. But if they aren't also producing new material for the game then balance issues won't matter as people start to drop off from a lack of things to do. If they aren't putting time into offering folks new things to play with then the game is most definitely will stagnate. People want new material and new things to do just as much as they want balance issues addressed.

    Also, I'm not sure why it would take years of work being as how they already have all that information on hand. If they didn't have that kind of information they wouldn't be able to make the changes they do now.

  • Fipmip.7219Fipmip.7219 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Fipmip.7219 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @XenoSpyro.1780 said:
    NO MORE ELITE SPECS.

    Christ...

    Elites are fun and is the method they have chosen to make changes to the professions. What's wrong with having more options, new abilities, and access to new weapons? I mean, if you don't like them then you don't have to use them but some of us do enjoy the change in playstyle they bring.

    @Schnitzel.8270 said:
    I've only just started about a month ago, so not the most knowledgeable about the game/engineer in general, but that gun the engineer/holosmith uses during primed laser cannon (might not be the actual name), I'm gonna need that as an actual primary weapon if possible.
    Also a sniper rifle too, if the laser cannon can't happen, I want a sniper rifle.

    We already have the rifle. So you just need to find the right skin. I recommend Deadeye's Rifle, Cursed Flintlock, Whisper's Secret Rifle, and of course The Predator. Now if you want to actually be a sniper then you really just need to play Deadeye. They're not likely to change Engineer to be a sniper. It doesn't really fit the theme of the profession. As for the Prime Light Beam, it's your Elite so you have access to it whenever you need it, so long as it's not in CD. So I'm not sure what you mean by "if it can't happen" as it's already a part of your arsenal.

    @Fipmip.7219 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Dedicant.6820 said:

    @Frostmane.9734 said:
    This won't be a fun answer, but I personally hope they don't develop another e-spec and use the energy to revamp core specs. There are tons for fun builds, across all professions, that the core game had that are just unplayable now. Let's get some remediation and build diversity before we expand again.

    I think that since we're going straight into season 5 rather than getting a new expansion and given the recent updates/reworks to things like Medkit, Phantasms, Guardian Staff, Herald, Deadeye and underwater combat, it's fair to assume that this is what's actually happening. Where the effort would be spent on producing new elite specs instead they are working on improving the flavour, fun factor and balance of existing mechanics and classes, both core and Heart of Thorns.

    Based on some of their comments, I actually think at some point in Season 5 we'll see a new set of Elite Specs. They've talked about finding new ways to deliver material that they would normally hold off for expansions. Since they've already added more mounts and legendaries I think the only thing left that comes with an expansion are the Elites.

    they can still add boats/airships. maybe they'll encourage us to make new classes for the expac and give us two extra character slots.

    I can't tell if you are being genuine, sarcastic, or flippant for no real reason. Though I wouldn't mind a boat or access to an airship. But I see nothing wrong with getting things like Elites during a Living World season as opposed to having to wait until they get around to making a new expansion.

    semi flippant. i agree new elites are fun and im always hype for them but I cant help but wonder what dedicating serious resources towards refining the rest of the classes and elites would do for the overall health of the game. would it be worth skipping a season of elites?

    Take ele. there are 20 skills on core ele staff alone. then the dagger/scepter/focus combinations. then the dozens of traits. then the elites. tens more skills underwater too. How do you even begin to make a meaningful change to that? one that keeps the class fun, balances the class and defines its role with respect to the other 8 classes, with their weapons, traits, elites and skills? it would take months of work if not years to start considering it, learning every facet of the game. Or, lets just keep adding more elites i suppose. Like I said I don't know. Many would like to see the game be more balanced.

    Well, some of these issues would still exist if they introduced Elites during an expansion. They would either be diverting resources to bringing us new Living World material or new expansion material. Like that's a given and something they rightfully should focus on to some extent. I think the issue is that the expansions aren't making them the kind of money they likely need them to make. I saw youtube video discussing this matter and they showed a clear drop after the initial spike of an expansion. Offering Elites during a season may be the kind of thing that keeps people engaged in the game and money flowing into the game as opposed to just a sudden spike at the release of an expansion and then a drop-off. They can still refine the current professions and elites, as we've seen them do just that during this current season. However, let's be honest, that isn't the kind of thing that is going to keep the community engaged for any length of time. I don't see bringing us new Elites and refining current mechanics as mutually exclusive activities. More so if instead of putting resources into an expansion team those resources are kept in Living World material and profession mechanics material.

    After all, if they were working on a new expansion the issues you highlight would still be present. They have shown they make balance changes as things progress. We've seen it this season. But if they aren't also producing new material for the game then balance issues won't matter as people start to drop off from a lack of things to do. If they aren't putting time into offering folks new things to play with then the game is most definitely will stagnate. People want new material and new things to do just as much as they want balance issues addressed.

    Also, I'm not sure why it would take years of work being as how they already have all that information on hand. If they didn't have that kind of information they wouldn't be able to make the changes they do now.

    Are you arguing to release more elites during expansions? like just keep piling them on like it's magic the gathering? sure, I guess we could make the game balanced by making sure the meta never settles, but kitten. Risky move. We'd probably have to get rid of ranked pvp since it would be basically meaningless.

    Also I dont really want to go into this too much further since it's dealing with a lot of facts that you or I dont know about. I remember reading from one of the developers that no one at Anet had actually gotten good with every class. so i guess they have 'all that information on hand' but they dont know how to read it, or what that information is. how do you quantify fun vs balance?

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Are you arguing to release more elites during expansions? like just keep piling them on like it's magic the gathering? sure, I guess we could make the game balanced by making sure the meta never settles, but kitten. Risky move. We'd probably have to get rid of ranked pvp since it would be basically meaningless.

    No, I'm arguing that current indicators make it appear that it may be a while before we see another expansion, as in they may not be working on one right now and thus we might not see another expansion until 2020 (at the earliest). As such providing Elites in season 5 shouldn't be a problem. ArenaNet has made several statements that indicate to some people that they aren't working on an expansion and that they are looking at different ways to provide us with new material that doesn't require the release of an expansion. They've said it themselves that they are looking to give us things in season 5 that we may normally expect to see in an expansion. Releasing elites during a season instead of holding off all new mechanical changes until an expansion may stabilize player interest in the game so that it maintains a steady high as opposed to a large dip and drop post-expansion release.

    Also I dont really want to go into this too much further since it's dealing with a lot of facts that you or I dont know about. I remember reading from one of the developers that no one at Anet had actually gotten good with every class. so i guess they have 'all that information on hand' but they dont know how to read it, or what that information is. how do you quantify fun vs balance?

    If you believe they don't know how to read the information then the problems you speak of aren't fixable. But I find it extremely unlikely that they don't know how to read all this data they collect. If they didn't understand it at all balance would be worse than it currently is. It can certainly improve but the balance issues in this game aren't nearly as bad as people keep indicating, in the same fashion that Necromancer isn't nearly as horrible as some folks make it out to be. I also wouldn't read to much into a statement about no one at ArenaNet getting good at every profession. What it likely means is that no single person is good at all the professions. Instead, individual members of the development team may be good at some professions and bad at others. Being good at all nine professions is an incredible time sink and they don't have time to spend all day playing the game. Again, if they didn't understand how their professions work balance would be a lot worse than it currently is. Not being able to read or understand all the data the game gives them would make producing the game impossible.

    As for quantifying fun vs balance, you can't. In every game, you have to accept a certain level of imbalance in a game. Perfect balance is impossible but it would also be boring. Folks idea on what is fun and balanced will vary greatly. Overall though I don't think they are doing a bad job as this game could be a lot worse than it currently is. If balance was really horrible the game wouldn't be as lively as it currently is. Folks don't stick around to play a badly balanced game. There are too many options for that to be the case. But folks are enjoying the game. It's fun for a lot of people. The game is constantly attracting new people to it. It is consistently ranked as a good game or a game people should be playing by gaming magazines. Balance could be improved, but that is true of pretty much every single faction based game out there, whether we are talking about video games, board games, minis, or CCG/LCG games. Even Magic the Gathering suffers from balances issues at times.

    If balance really was as bad as people on this forum indicate then I really don't get why they continue to play the game. It makes no sense to play a game and to go onto its forums and take part in conversations if the game really is as bad at balance as some people try to indicate. This game does not behave like a horribly balanced game.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dace.8173 said:

    Are you arguing to release more elites during expansions? like just keep piling them on like it's magic the gathering? sure, I guess we could make the game balanced by making sure the meta never settles, but kitten. Risky move. We'd probably have to get rid of ranked pvp since it would be basically meaningless.

    No, I'm arguing that current indicators make it appear that it may be a while before we see another expansion, as in they may not be working on one right now

    they're still working on the xpac (it's a dedicated team) they're just giving it more development time.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    Are you arguing to release more elites during expansions? like just keep piling them on like it's magic the gathering? sure, I guess we could make the game balanced by making sure the meta never settles, but kitten. Risky move. We'd probably have to get rid of ranked pvp since it would be basically meaningless.

    No, I'm arguing that current indicators make it appear that it may be a while before we see another expansion, as in they may not be working on one right now

    they're still working on the xpac (it's a dedicated team) they're just giving it more development time.

    Well, that would still mean that we aren't likely to see an expansion in 2019 but in 2020. 2020 sounds like a good time frame if they are giving the development team more time. Still, based on their comments I still think they are likely to drop new mechanical stuff such as Elites during season 5. Giving the expansion more time is a great idea as I hate rushed developments (I'm looking at you Mass Effect: Andromeda). However, if we get nothing new mechanics wise to play with I think interest will drop off after a while.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    Are you arguing to release more elites during expansions? like just keep piling them on like it's magic the gathering? sure, I guess we could make the game balanced by making sure the meta never settles, but kitten. Risky move. We'd probably have to get rid of ranked pvp since it would be basically meaningless.

    No, I'm arguing that current indicators make it appear that it may be a while before we see another expansion, as in they may not be working on one right now

    they're still working on the xpac (it's a dedicated team) they're just giving it more development time.

    Well, that would still mean that we aren't likely to see an expansion in 2019 but in 2020. 2020 sounds like a good time frame if they are giving the development team more time. Still, based on their comments I still think they are likely to drop new mechanical stuff such as Elites during season 5. Giving the expansion more time is a great idea as I hate rushed developments (I'm looking at you Mass Effect: Andromeda). However, if we get nothing new mechanics wise to play with I think interest will drop off after a while.

    i doubt it will be elite specs as they are fairly difficult but we might see some substantiel reworks to old specs.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Odokuro.5049Odokuro.5049 Member ✭✭✭

    My idea for a Elite Specialization for Engineer.

    Mechano-wrangler (Think the Mech version of the Ranger.)
    A Mechano-wrangler would work mostly like a Ranger in terms that the Engineer would have a pet-bar like the Ranger (Where our toolbet currently is.)
    Our pets would mimic those "Steam-punk" looking creations like the Steam Minotaur, we'de have to do class-specific quests to track down these elusive mecha-beasts to reprogram AKA "Tame". We would have a variety of pets such as tanky ones, dps ones, support ones and hybrids of those three.

    Now some of you may be thinking/saying, "What about my tool-belt, I like my tool-belt." well here is the way we'd still make use of it or have it. Dependent on what skills you slot on your 6-0 keys, would gift your pet with similar abilities, you would be able to control attack-centric skills much like the Ranger does, but things like elixers, heal-belt skills, ect. would grant your pet passive boosts. You would be able to control which attack skill they use and how they use it, by opening up your New panel "Scrap-yard", where you would have menus to select abilities and how often they use them (Off-cooldown, melee-only, ranged-only ect.) your f2 would give you primary control over one of them or heck the f2 could be like an "over-charge" option where you instruct your pet to activate their buffs, prior to engaging an enemy.

    your heal would heal you both, ect.

    This was just a crazy idea, but I think it would be a pretty interesting spec, and add another flavor to engineer.

    The Self-Appointed Pervy Sage of Dragonbrand.

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No more AI please.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odokuro.5049 said:
    My idea for a Elite Specialization for Engineer.

    Mechano-wrangler (Think the Mech version of the Ranger.)
    A Mechano-wrangler would work mostly like a Ranger in terms that the Engineer would have a pet-bar like the Ranger (Where our toolbet currently is.)
    Our pets would mimic those "Steam-punk" looking creations like the Steam Minotaur, we'de have to do class-specific quests to track down these elusive mecha-beasts to reprogram AKA "Tame". We would have a variety of pets such as tanky ones, dps ones, support ones and hybrids of those three.

    Now some of you may be thinking/saying, "What about my tool-belt, I like my tool-belt." well here is the way we'd still make use of it or have it. Dependent on what skills you slot on your 6-0 keys, would gift your pet with similar abilities, you would be able to control attack-centric skills much like the Ranger does, but things like elixers, heal-belt skills, ect. would grant your pet passive boosts. You would be able to control which attack skill they use and how they use it, by opening up your New panel "Scrap-yard", where you would have menus to select abilities and how often they use them (Off-cooldown, melee-only, ranged-only ect.) your f2 would give you primary control over one of them or heck the f2 could be like an "over-charge" option where you instruct your pet to activate their buffs, prior to engaging an enemy.

    your heal would heal you both, ect.

    This was just a crazy idea, but I think it would be a pretty interesting spec, and add another flavor to engineer.

    This really isn't feasible. You're not going to find that many players who would be happy with being the only Elite that has to track down and quest for their abilities, more so when you consider a lot of folks don't like AIs. Secondly, redoing the toolbelt in that fashion is waaaaaaaaaay too much work for something that most players will reject due to their dislike of AIs. It might have worked if that had always been the case and the Engineering skills were already set up in that fashion but to take all the Engineering skills and rewrite them in such a fashion is a non-starter. Finally, this concept really isn't all that different from Golemancer. You've just replaced golems with mechs.

  • I’d like to see a real 1200 range DPS weapon that’s not the rifle. It could be staff of longbow. Longbow would make more sense thematically. I assume it would be a super high tech one with lots of acessories for distribution of nano-golems, electricity, poison, etc. having some self contained combos with it and one mobility skill to kite would be A+ Maybe it could be a Spec Ops theme with stealth and traps for utility skills brining in a long range hit and run element.

    If it’s melee I think a greatsword with high mobility would be great. Something like how the ranger can fly around with it but with technology and even more mobile. It would have to be super tanky even more than scrapper. Maybe rework scrapper into our support build and make a golem suit based greatwaed build that has a lot of CC and sustain to harass enemies and not die

  • Conqueror.3682Conqueror.3682 Member ✭✭✭

    I always wanted some sort of offensive alchemist, lke these joko loyalist which throw you molotov cocktails, also, can be used to complement core condition engineer.

    Fall down seven times, get up eight.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Conqueror.3682 said:
    I always wanted some sort of offensive alchemist, lke these joko loyalist which throw you molotov cocktails, also, can be used to complement core condition engineer.

    Please no more ground targeting. Grenade kit was enough.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018

    I have always been in high support of the Technomancer Elite Specialization (Staff Elite Spec) that allows the Engineer to use and create technology that allows them complete mastery over magical energy. Giving Engineer a Elite Spec that specializes in Utility and/or Damage based on which traits you use to make the Technomancer skills more Shield/Healing focused or Damage focused.

    A Elite spec made to give players the choice on playing Utility or Damage Dealer because the Technomancers are engineers that specialize in creating and modifying technology to give them mastery over magic in ways only they can achieve through the use of technology.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018

    I'd love a compound (long) bow. All sorts of different arrow types

    I'd also love a proper golemancer class, though we have too much AI. Maybe make it a suit that you pop in and out of like a kit...

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2018

    A real pet class though having an automaton with different class types tide to how you "build" it. I want a puppet master from ff11 in gw2.
    http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Puppetmaster

    You could use different types of tech in gw2 to changes it class char being more steam punk more melee / def aimed, azern would be more golme like being more of an mage dmg class, plant base being more of an support class and, gear human base being more of a ranged thf class.

    It would be hand hand h2h but there nothing like that in this game so dagger main hand.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Naix.8156Naix.8156 Member ✭✭

    People need to keep in mind when speculating on or creating new elite specs that the design has some constraints :

    1. Copy-Pasta is Paramount
      The concept for elite specs seems to be "Class X through the lens of Class Y." At the skills and traits level of detail the vast majority are taken from existing sources and tweaked.

    2. Displace to Make Play Space
      The elite specs of a new expac seem to be designed with a base power level and efficacy makes the previous versions substandard. From an over arching perspective the new elite spec meta conquers if not hard counters the current meta (with respect to competitive game modes).

    3. Power Creep Required
      It doesn't feel good to pay money for the new hotness only to get owned by the existing specs. To this end, the new elite spec needs to launch at absurd power levels and/or existing specs will get a last minute nerf.

    As interesting as these player created elite spec ideas are to read, they generally aren't even in the ballpark when it comes to a possibility for implementation. Perhaps a better approach to suggesting or brainstorming new elites would be to keep the above constraints in mind.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naix.8156 said:
    People need to keep in mind when speculating on or creating new elite specs that the design has some constraints :

    1. Copy-Pasta is Paramount
      The concept for elite specs seems to be "Class X through the lens of Class Y." At the skills and traits level of detail the vast majority are taken from existing sources and tweaked.

    2. Displace to Make Play Space
      The elite specs of a new expac seem to be designed with a base power level and efficacy makes the previous versions substandard. From an over arching perspective the new elite spec meta conquers if not hard counters the current meta (with respect to competitive game modes).

    3. Power Creep Required
      It doesn't feel good to pay money for the new hotness only to get owned by the existing specs. To this end, the new elite spec needs to launch at absurd power levels and/or existing specs will get a last minute nerf.

    As interesting as these player created elite spec ideas are to read, they generally aren't even in the ballpark when it comes to a possibility for implementation. Perhaps a better approach to suggesting or brainstorming new elites would be to keep the above constraints in mind.

    these are literally everything wrong with e-specs. don't do any of those

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naix.8156 said:
    People need to keep in mind when speculating on or creating new elite specs that the design has some constraints :

    1. Copy-Pasta is Paramount
      The concept for elite specs seems to be "Class X through the lens of Class Y." At the skills and traits level of detail the vast majority are taken from existing sources and tweaked.

    2. Displace to Make Play Space
      The elite specs of a new expac seem to be designed with a base power level and efficacy makes the previous versions substandard. From an over arching perspective the new elite spec meta conquers if not hard counters the current meta (with respect to competitive game modes).

    3. Power Creep Required
      It doesn't feel good to pay money for the new hotness only to get owned by the existing specs. To this end, the new elite spec needs to launch at absurd power levels and/or existing specs will get a last minute nerf.

    As interesting as these player created elite spec ideas are to read, they generally aren't even in the ballpark when it comes to a possibility for implementation. Perhaps a better approach to suggesting or brainstorming new elites would be to keep the above constraints in mind.

    Woah... I don't think even Anet design by those standards. If it were true, the power creep disaster we currently have would be and example of great balance in comparison...

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭
    edited October 11, 2018

    Just a joke idea because Xenoblade...

    Two-handed sword (aka Greatsword) Elite Spec that use a mechanic called Core mechanic.

    There will be 3 Cores being Power, Speed, and Guard with each Core giving the equipped Main Weapon its own Unique skills and replacing the Default weapon skills from Core Engineer. Weapon Swap button is used to switch between the three cores.

    Power (red core) - Heavy damage skill/Small AoE for focused damage
    Speed (blue core) - Fast attack skills/Large AoE for large mob killing.
    Guard (green core) - Medium attack skills/Utility skill that provide more barriers when used to the Engineer and his/her party members nearby.

    The Main Weapon will also emits small red, blue, or green electric energy that reflect the type of Core being used.

    Main Elite mechanic will be Overdrive where the Engineer will temporarily overcharge the Core to perform even stronger versions of the Main Weapon's Core skills with more flashier animation to show the attacks being in overdrive.

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    @Naix.8156 said:
    People need to keep in mind when speculating on or creating new elite specs that the design has some constraints :

    1. Copy-Pasta is Paramount
      The concept for elite specs seems to be "Class X through the lens of Class Y." At the skills and traits level of detail the vast majority are taken from existing sources and tweaked.

    2. Displace to Make Play Space
      The elite specs of a new expac seem to be designed with a base power level and efficacy makes the previous versions substandard. From an over arching perspective the new elite spec meta conquers if not hard counters the current meta (with respect to competitive game modes).

    3. Power Creep Required
      It doesn't feel good to pay money for the new hotness only to get owned by the existing specs. To this end, the new elite spec needs to launch at absurd power levels and/or existing specs will get a last minute nerf.

    As interesting as these player created elite spec ideas are to read, they generally aren't even in the ballpark when it comes to a possibility for implementation. Perhaps a better approach to suggesting or brainstorming new elites would be to keep the above constraints in mind.

    In my opinion there's no harm at all in asking for the impossible because ultimately we're going to be shoveled whatever hot mess the unlucky dev who picked the short straw for Engineers that cycle decided to dash off at the last minute to meet the minimum requirements as given by their boss before going back to working on the things they actually want to instead.

    That's just how Holo comes across- 'Couldn't be kitten to do a proper elite so here- have something that's overdone, mindnumbingly easy to play, and just shut up about how broken the rest of the profession is. Besides, with this you shouldn't need or want to play core again anyway.'

  • they're missing a condi or support themed spec, so I'm speculating on that.

  • Houston we have a problem...
    We expect a ranged weapon for the new elite..
    But that does kill all options to play the new profession as a mellee...

    What the engineer still needs most is a new standard weapon skill Thats mellee
    And a new basic non elite skill tree
    I think this goes for almost all classes..
    I think open world season 5 would be a great time to introduce this..
    Maybe even with some utillity and an elite skill

    If they would like add dagger as a new mainhand weapon for thieves, this would solve the problem of a new ranged weapon with the next elite..

    For the next elite, there is several options.

    A longbow engineer with mechanical traps..
    Would work very much as the engineer version of John Rambo.
    With F5 skill being a getling gun(kit)
    But affraid it would play to much like a dragonhunter..

    An other option is a teleporter based engineer..
    That uses a device to tap into leyline energy to teleport himself around, or to teleport engineering stuff to him..
    I could see them teleport a device with a field of darkness..

    And then there is the old robotic team..
    summing robots to help out in combat..
    Or having a combat suit aplied trough the F5 skil..
    It would be more of an asura theme...

    In general i hope the F5 skill will from now on allways be a kit..

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lordbachus.6091 said:
    Houston we have a problem...
    We expect a ranged weapon for the new elite..
    But that does kill all options to play the new profession as a mellee...

    What the engineer still needs most is a new standard weapon skill Thats mellee
    And a new basic non elite skill tree
    I think this goes for almost all classes..
    I think open world season 5 would be a great time to introduce this..
    Maybe even with some utillity and an elite skill

    You have heard of scrapper and holo right? Both have melee weapons as their new weapons.

    @lordbachus.6091 said:
    If they would like add dagger as a new mainhand weapon for thieves, this would solve the problem of a new ranged weapon with the next elite..

    For the next elite, there is several options.

    A longbow engineer with mechanical traps..
    Would work very much as the engineer version of John Rambo.
    With F5 skill being a getling gun(kit)
    But affraid it would play to much like a dragonhunter..

    I'm so confused by this.

    @lordbachus.6091 said:
    An other option is a teleporter based engineer..
    That uses a device to tap into leyline energy to teleport himself around, or to teleport engineering stuff to him..
    I could see them teleport a device with a field of darkness..

    As much as I want engineer to keep reflecting Valve games... let's not.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What the engineer still needs most is a new standard weapon skill Thats mellee
    And a new basic non elite skill tree
    I think this goes for almost all classes..
    I think open world season 5 would be a great time to introduce this..
    Maybe even with some utillity and an elite skill

    I really don't see them adding new basic skills or an additional weapon. It's an ugly can of worms to open that would cause more grief for them than paying off. The other professions would argue that they need new skills and new core weapons too and there is no logical reason why they would want to say yes to all of them (such as Warrior, Guardian, or Ranger). However, gamers being gamers if one faction gets something then folks feel they should have something too. It honestly doesn't matter if their request is reasonable or not, or even logical. So unless they were prepared to give everyone a new set of skills and weapons there is no point in giving just one or two professions new skills and weapons as the vast majority of your customers would likely be upset that they got left out. In my experince, gamers in a faction based game are not as rational as they need to be.

    Which is why they created Elite specs in the first place. Then they can give everyone new weapons and new skills. Everyone gets a new toy, everyone remains happy. They've already said that Elite specs is how they want to change professions and I don't see them changing their mind on that as it would undermine their justification for them and any future use of them. Folks would argue why have an elite when these things could just be added to core.

    I also don't see them adding a ranged Elite as all that problematic as if a person wants to play a melee based character they have Holosmith and Scrapper.

    A longbow engineer with mechanical traps..
    Would work very much as the engineer version of John Rambo.
    With F5 skill being a getling gun(kit)
    But affraid it would play to much like a dragonhunter..

    I would have gone with Green Arrow but a trap based ranged fight would likely play too close to Dragonhunter.

    And then there is the old robotic team..
    summing robots to help out in combat..
    Or having a combat suit aplied trough the F5 skil..
    It would be more of an asura theme...

    I don't see this happening. People hate AI controlled stuff too much. It's one of the complaints about Scrapper, that gyros are useless due to the AI.

    In general i hope the F5 skill will from now on allways be a kit..

    While I don't mind the F5 being a kit I think always being a kit would get dull and boring and really wouldn't be all that imagntive. Photon Forge is great, but it's not great enough that I would want that mechanic on every future Elite. I think it would be better if they experiment with their Elites than having this standard application of a kit. It doesn't help that not everyone likes kits and not everyone liked the use of Photon Forge.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MaxwellM.2075 said:
    I’d like to see a real 1200 range DPS weapon that’s not the rifle. It could be staff of longbow. Longbow would make more sense thematically. I assume it would be a super high tech one with lots of acessories for distribution of nano-golems, electricity, poison, etc. having some self contained combos with it and one mobility skill to kite would be A+ Maybe it could be a Spec Ops theme with stealth and traps for utility skills brining in a long range hit and run element.

    If it’s melee I think a greatsword with high mobility would be great. Something like how the ranger can fly around with it but with technology and even more mobile. It would have to be super tanky even more than scrapper. Maybe rework scrapper into our support build and make a golem suit based greatwaed build that has a lot of CC and sustain to harass enemies and not die

    1. Steam Powered Bow
    2. F5 skill that activates an enhancement to the available weapon set
    3. Utility skills based on Aetherblade technology
    • Aether Shield - Ammo based, 2 uses. Activating grants 12 charges and envelops the user in protective shield that destroys projectiles and blocks melee attacks, with each attack nullified consuming a charge. If all charges not consumed when the field expires, it grounds and sends out a shock wave that stuns nearby enemies (1/2 second + 1/2 second for every 3 charges remaining) .
    • Steam Crash - Send forward a cascade of electrified steam that damages and blinds floes in its path
    • Dragnet - Places a device on the ground that detonates after 2 seconds, pulsing immobilize in an area around it.
    • Electro Tether - Ground Target - Shots an arc of electricity to Target location, crippling enemies in its path; then causes user to leap to the location, dazing adjacent enemies on impact.
    • Airship Bombardment - Call in an Airship bombardment that pelts the area in cannon blasts of fire and electricity, causing burning and vulnerability respectively.

    Give me a break.. I'm bored.

  • Dabrixmgp.4758Dabrixmgp.4758 Member ✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018

    only correct answer is Golemancer with Staff maybe?

  • Atmaweapon.7345Atmaweapon.7345 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018

    Engineer is based entirely around steampunk and is predominantly Charr. Golemancy is magitech and entirely Asuran in principle which completely defeats the point of Engi as a non-magic profession, not to mention that the golem mechanic would either directly rip off the Necro shroud or Ranger pet and they’re in the process of removing borrowed skills from Engineer to establish a better identity.

    Now if there’s anything Engineer could do that no other profession could, it’d be a jetpack. One of the gimmicks behind this elite spec would be the real life practice of cloud seeding which is essentially weather modification. Let’s call it the “Stormrider” which sounds interesting enough while keeping the jetpack theme. The Stormrider utilizes two different weapons, a bow-type weapon, and the Spear. It would utilize Shortbows or Longbows as a power/support weapon whose gimmick is to launch special ammunition straight up into the air to land at a designated area, giving Engineer a way around projectile hate. Spears utilized are in conjunction with their jetpack gimmick which I’ll explain.

    Basically, replace the elite toolbelt skill with jetpack, and replace endurance with fuel. Use jetpack to go airborne (height limit works like the skimmer hover) which gives a somewhat modified set of weapon skills that share cooldowns, and replaces toolbelt skills with 4 different spear skills. Fuel is consumed rapidly, but barrel roll dodges are very low cost while in the air. On the ground, dodge roll is turned into a quick rocket boost with less invincibility frames, can be used more often. Also, rocket boosting on the ground also allows usage of spear skills without needing to boost into the air.

    Spear skills are as follows:

    1) Homing stab: Quickly dart forward and stab at a target
    2) Spiral charge: Charge through an enemy while evading.
    3) Lightning Spire: Attract a bolt of Lightning to grant Alacrity to allies.
    4) Tectonic crash: End Jetpack mode and dive towards the ground, launching nearby enemies.

    Yeah, this elite spec is essentially a jetpack Dragoon.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2018

    @Atmaweapon.7345 said:
    Engineer is based entirely around steampunk and is predominantly Charr. Golemancy is magitech and entirely Asuran in principle which completely defeats the point of Engi as a non-magic profession, not to mention that the golem mechanic would either directly rip off the Necro shroud or Ranger pet and they’re in the process of removing borrowed skills from Engineer to establish a better identity.

    Now if there’s anything Engineer could do that no other profession could, it’d be a jetpack. One of the gimmicks behind this elite spec would be the real life practice of cloud seeding which is essentially weather modification. Let’s call it the “Stormrider” which sounds interesting enough while keeping the jetpack theme. The Stormrider utilizes two different weapons, a bow-type weapon, and the Spear. It would utilize Shortbows or Longbows as a power/support weapon whose gimmick is to launch special ammunition straight up into the air to land at a designated area, giving Engineer a way around projectile hate. Spears utilized are in conjunction with their jetpack gimmick which I’ll explain.

    Basically, replace the elite toolbelt skill with jetpack, and replace endurance with fuel. Use jetpack to go airborne (height limit works like the skimmer hover) which gives a somewhat modified set of weapon skills that share cooldowns, and replaces toolbelt skills with 4 different spear skills. Fuel is consumed rapidly, but barrel roll dodges are very low cost while in the air. On the ground, dodge roll is turned into a quick rocket boost with less invincibility frames, can be used more often. Also, rocket boosting on the ground also allows usage of spear skills without needing to boost into the air.

    Spear skills are as follows:

    1) Homing stab: Quickly dart forward and stab at a target
    2) Spiral charge: Charge through an enemy while evading.
    3) Lightning Spire: Attract a bolt of Lightning to grant Alacrity to allies.
    4) Tectonic crash: End Jetpack mode and dive towards the ground, launching nearby enemies.

    Yeah, this elite spec is essentially a jetpack Dragoon.

    Handling Engineer as a Charr steampunk kind of thing is just too limiting. Nor is there anything wrong with using other mechanics. Photon Forge is just a better version of Necro/Reaper Shroud and gyro's are just weaker pets. You could do Golemancy and it still have a unique identity. The bigger problem with Golemancy isn't that it's Asuran. If anything Engineer should branch out further. The problem is just pets in general and the AI for them. The act of borrowing the pet mechanic wouldn't make it less Engineer so long as it actually worked.

    Also, I don't see the whole jetpack thing as viable. It comes off as too gimmicky to really be viable in a competitive sense. Constantly needing to be airborne just makes Engineer an easy target for Deadeye and Ranger. The arrows would also be too slow if they are having to arch up into the air first in order to avoid projectile hate.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2018

    @Atmaweapon.7345 said:
    On the ground, dodge roll is turned into a quick rocket boost with less invincibility frames, can be used more often.

    Just want to clarify on this statement specifically:

    Evade frames =/= Invincibility.

    This is a very important distinction to make. Evade frames can be countered by a limited number of skills. Invincibility cannot.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • The engi class has never really clicked with me because.. well, it just doesn't feel like an engineer (to me).
    Just as a necromancer plays with dead things, an engineer should play with.. machines. In a sense, it's almost like the engineer interfaces with the world through machines, not directly. When my engi runs around with a sword, rifle, pistols or hammer it just feels... odd.

    Personally, I'd like the next elite to allow the engi to create machines to deal damage/support and not get directly involved in the fighting. Of course, there would be some melee weapon (like a wrench or ..crowbar) in case things got close and personal, but ultimately the engi should avoid melee as much as possible and keep the machines maintained.

    Building on this, the spec could involve dropping a factory (I'd like to call it a forge but that's taken) that could produce droids to do various tasks. For example, the engi could produce a might generating droid and assign it to a particular ally. The droid would then follow and help that ally. That's something that would distinguish this spec, and engi, for me. All other minions/pets in this game are ultimately attached to the player who owns them. Being able to create minions and attach them to others would be something different.

    Taking that further, you could produce several droids and assign them to different players - or assign multiple droids to one player for added benefits. If a player has two droids with them, the droids might connect up to create a barrier, in addition to their basic functions.

    I guess what engi is missing for me isn't a specific weapon or a specific role, but a more engineering theme. I don't really care what the next spec is. It could be completely different from my concept above but feel suitably engineery in a different way, and that might be enough. Maybe the next one will click with me. Fingers crossed.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoltar MacRoth.7146 said:
    The engi class has never really clicked with me because.. well, it just doesn't feel like an engineer (to me).
    Just as a necromancer plays with dead things, an engineer should play with.. machines. In a sense, it's almost like the engineer interfaces with the world through machines, not directly. When my engi runs around with a sword, rifle, pistols or hammer it just feels... odd.

    It's a steampunk fantasy game, there are limits on the type of machines they could put into the game. As for interacting with the world through machines, Flamethrower, Tool kit, goggles, slick shoes, pocket ram, jump boots. There is really only so far you can take the interacting with the world via machines so far in an MMO.

    Personally, I'd like the next elite to allow the engi to create machines to deal damage/support and not get directly involved in the fighting. Of course, there would be some >melee weapon (like a wrench or ..crowbar) in case things got close and personal, but ultimately the engi should avoid melee as much as possible and keep the machines >maintained.

    You mean like with turrets, kits, and gyros? Not being directly involved in combat is a really dull way to play an MMO game. Players want to interact with their environment and have control over what they are doing, hence why AIs are not well liked. It would pretty much rely on a bunch of AIs, a non-starter for many Engineer players.

    Building on this, the spec could involve dropping a factory (I'd like to call it a forge but that's taken) that could produce droids to do various tasks. For example, the engi >could produce a might generating droid and assign it to a particular ally. The droid would then follow and help that ally. That's something that would distinguish this spec, >and engi, for me. All other minions/pets in this game are ultimately attached to the player who owns them. Being able to create minions and attach them to others would >be something different.

    You mean like Supply Crate? Ranger already has commands that allow their pet to focus on other players. Attaching pets to other plays is really a non-interactive way of playing the game and the strength of the Elite would wholly be reliant on the AI being competent.

    Taking that further, you could produce several droids and assign them to different players - or assign multiple droids to one player for added benefits. If a player has two >droids with them, the droids might connect up to create a barrier, in addition to their basic functions.

    The balance on that would be a nightmare. Also, this sounds way too involved to be an Elite.

    I guess what engi is missing for me isn't a specific weapon or a specific role, but a more engineering theme. I don't really care what the next spec is. It could be completely >different from my concept above but feel suitably engineery in a different way, and that might be enough. Maybe the next one will click with me. Fingers crossed.

    Most of what you listed are already elements that are in Engineer. The rest are really AI dependent and non-interactive. The AI part has been addressed before but there is only so much you can do with the engineering concept in an MMO. Some of those things are viable in a single player game where the game itself can be created to focus on just that character and its abilities. With an MMO though you really can't have a player sit back and pump out an endless supply of bots to attach to other people. However, if being able to drop turrets, summon gyros, have different kits, have gadgets and explosives aren't already engineer like for you it is unlikely that will change with a new Elite as it's hard to deny that Scrapper is engineer like, in the very least.

  • I guess I'll have to clarify some of the ideas I had with the Jetpack Engineer:

    1) The Jetpack is meant to be a positioning tool rather than a "mode" the way Photon Forge is.
    2) You can activate spear skills immediately after using dodge rolls so you never actually have to go into the air, but retain the flavor of using a jetpack.

    3) Most of the Bow type weapon skills would function like arrow-carts or Barrage in that they're channeled AoE attacks that fire straight up and persist for a moment rather than projectiles. Attack abilities would be stuff like a rain of explosive arrows, while supportive abilities could be an Elixir Rain. The Weather seeding concept lets the Engineer perform attacks differently from an Elementalist, for example they could fire bomb arrows that freeze in the air and rain down as icicles which then detonate after delay.
    4) The Bow would primarily be a support weapon, but packs good sustained power damage. The auto-attack would basically be Spatial Surge with an AoE rather than an arcing effect. All of the support abilities would be non-projectile effects.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Atmaweapon.7345 said:
    I guess I'll have to clarify some of the ideas I had with the Jetpack Engineer:

    1) The Jetpack is meant to be a positioning tool rather than a "mode" the way Photon Forge is.
    2) You can activate spear skills immediately after using dodge rolls so you never actually have to go into the air, but retain the flavor of using a jetpack.

    3) Most of the Bow type weapon skills would function like arrow-carts or Barrage in that they're channeled AoE attacks that fire straight up and persist for a moment rather than projectiles. Attack abilities would be stuff like a rain of explosive arrows, while supportive abilities could be an Elixir Rain. The Weather seeding concept lets the Engineer perform attacks differently from an Elementalist, for example they could fire bomb arrows that freeze in the air and rain down as icicles which then detonate after delay.
    4) The Bow would primarily be a support weapon, but packs good sustained power damage. The auto-attack would basically be Spatial Surge with an AoE rather than an arcing effect. All of the support abilities would be non-projectile effects.

    If all you have to do is dodge to gain access to the spear then what you are really doing is giving the Elite two weapons for the price of one. There wouldn't be much point to the jetpack mechanic if you can get most of the same effect simply by dodging. Actually, there is no point to a jetpack if you don't need to go into the air. The lack of not having to go into the air pretty much kills any flavor it has and would be viewed as nothing more as a cheap gimmick.

    The arrow thing is just unbalanced. Arrow cart works because it's a stationary device that can be destroyed. Ranger and Dragonhunter only get one such attack and that attack roots them in place, leaving them vulnerable. One would be fine, an entire weapon of such effects would not be balanced, at all. The balance issues get worse when you have to dodge to gain access to these spear skills. The actual arrows also come off as too strong.

  • I don't disagree with your reply - except on one point: that not being directly involved in combat is a dull way to play an mmo.
    Obviously, what's dull and what's not is subjective, or the forums wouldn't be full of conflicting opinions on the subject. There will be some who would enjoy standing back from direct combat and providing support - and there are options already for this in-game as a result. And it doesn't just vary from person to person but also by mood. Sometimes I feel like standing back and sometimes I feel like being in the enemy's face, so dullness is a pointless argument. Arguments about the limitations and balance of an mmo are reasonable and I don't disagree with you there. I was just voicing my own day-dream of an engi, as impractical as it might be.

    As I said at the end, I really don't care what the next spec is. I'm not hanging out for anything. I just haven't clicked with engi yet and I'm hoping the next spec does something thematically that feels more engi (to me).

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoltar MacRoth.7146 said:

    I don't disagree with your reply - except on one point: that not being directly involved in combat is a dull way to play an mmo.
    Obviously, what's dull and what's not is subjective, or the forums wouldn't be full of conflicting opinions on the subject. There will be some who would enjoy standing back from direct combat and providing support - and there are options already for this in-game as a result. And it doesn't just vary from person to person but also by mood. Sometimes I feel like standing back and sometimes I feel like being in the enemy's face, so dullness is a pointless argument. Arguments about the limitations and balance of an mmo are reasonable and I don't disagree with you there. I was just voicing my own day-dream of an engi, as impractical as it might be.

    As I said at the end, I really don't care what the next spec is. I'm not hanging out for anything. I just haven't clicked with engi yet and I'm hoping the next spec does something thematically that feels more engi (to me).

    I guess I should have framed it as passive vs active combat. You can be active in combat and sit on the back line. That's what a lot of what support does. Passive combat, on the other hand, I do not think creates a fun MMO experience, at least in my opinion. I think what you said came off as a passive way of being in combat, which, admittedly, I find to be dull.

  • @Dace.8173 said:

    @Atmaweapon.7345 said:
    I guess I'll have to clarify some of the ideas I had with the Jetpack Engineer:

    1) The Jetpack is meant to be a positioning tool rather than a "mode" the way Photon Forge is.
    2) You can activate spear skills immediately after using dodge rolls so you never actually have to go into the air, but retain the flavor of using a jetpack.

    3) Most of the Bow type weapon skills would function like arrow-carts or Barrage in that they're channeled AoE attacks that fire straight up and persist for a moment rather than projectiles. Attack abilities would be stuff like a rain of explosive arrows, while supportive abilities could be an Elixir Rain. The Weather seeding concept lets the Engineer perform attacks differently from an Elementalist, for example they could fire bomb arrows that freeze in the air and rain down as icicles which then detonate after delay.
    4) The Bow would primarily be a support weapon, but packs good sustained power damage. The auto-attack would basically be Spatial Surge with an AoE rather than an arcing effect. All of the support abilities would be non-projectile effects.

    If all you have to do is dodge to gain access to the spear then what you are really doing is giving the Elite two weapons for the price of one. There wouldn't be much point to the jetpack mechanic if you can get most of the same effect simply by dodging. Actually, there is no point to a jetpack if you don't need to go into the air. The lack of not having to go into the air pretty much kills any flavor it has and would be viewed as nothing more as a cheap gimmick.

    The arrow thing is just unbalanced. Arrow cart works because it's a stationary device that can be destroyed. Ranger and Dragonhunter only get one such attack and that attack roots them in place, leaving them vulnerable. One would be fine, an entire weapon of such effects would not be balanced, at all. The balance issues get worse when you have to dodge to gain access to these spear skills. The actual arrows also come off as too strong.

    There’s a major disconnect in expectations here, I guess I could have called the jetpack a rocket. Your expectation seems to be that the jetpack is like one of those games where its only purpose is to bob you up and down in the air. My thinking actually comes from a game series called rocket knight where your jetpack is like an omnidirectional dash. There’s a certain charm to having a plethora of movement options bound by 1 resource (Endurance in this case) and having multiple viable ways to use a jetpack depending on the situation is part of the charm of using a jetpack as opposed to say, a levitation device. The main purpose of the jetpack is to blast you around at blindingly fast speeds; if the main purpose of the jetpack was just to hover, it’d just be a glorified glider.

    As for a free second weapon, it’s much more limited than say, Druid or Holo.

    Finally, for the bow, not every skill is going to be a targeted aoe, When say “good sustained dps” I mean that the auto-attack isn’t garbage like Rifle, requiring you to run a another kit (I mean for the shortbow to compliment the Med kit in a support setup). When I compare it to an arrowcart it’s obviously not going to be anywhere near that size of that AoE, especially on the offensive attacks. The exploding icicle arrows sounds hideously OP because it sounds cool, but in reality it would look like this:
    -Deal damage in an area. After a delay, deal damage again and chill in that area.

    Plenty of professions have non-projectile ranged attacks that hit rather hard. The fact that it looks like Barrage doesn’t mean it’ll be anywhere as effective.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Atmaweapon.7345 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Atmaweapon.7345 said:
    I guess I'll have to clarify some of the ideas I had with the Jetpack Engineer:

    1) The Jetpack is meant to be a positioning tool rather than a "mode" the way Photon Forge is.
    2) You can activate spear skills immediately after using dodge rolls so you never actually have to go into the air, but retain the flavor of using a jetpack.

    3) Most of the Bow type weapon skills would function like arrow-carts or Barrage in that they're channeled AoE attacks that fire straight up and persist for a moment rather than projectiles. Attack abilities would be stuff like a rain of explosive arrows, while supportive abilities could be an Elixir Rain. The Weather seeding concept lets the Engineer perform attacks differently from an Elementalist, for example they could fire bomb arrows that freeze in the air and rain down as icicles which then detonate after delay.
    4) The Bow would primarily be a support weapon, but packs good sustained power damage. The auto-attack would basically be Spatial Surge with an AoE rather than an arcing effect. All of the support abilities would be non-projectile effects.

    If all you have to do is dodge to gain access to the spear then what you are really doing is giving the Elite two weapons for the price of one. There wouldn't be much point to the jetpack mechanic if you can get most of the same effect simply by dodging. Actually, there is no point to a jetpack if you don't need to go into the air. The lack of not having to go into the air pretty much kills any flavor it has and would be viewed as nothing more as a cheap gimmick.

    The arrow thing is just unbalanced. Arrow cart works because it's a stationary device that can be destroyed. Ranger and Dragonhunter only get one such attack and that attack roots them in place, leaving them vulnerable. One would be fine, an entire weapon of such effects would not be balanced, at all. The balance issues get worse when you have to dodge to gain access to these spear skills. The actual arrows also come off as too strong.

    There’s a major disconnect in expectations here, I guess I could have called the jetpack a rocket. Your expectation seems to be that the jetpack is like one of those games where its only purpose is to bob you up and down in the air. My thinking actually comes from a game series called rocket knight where your jetpack is like an omnidirectional dash. There’s a certain charm to having a plethora of movement options bound by 1 resource (Endurance in this case) and having multiple viable ways to use a jetpack depending on the situation is part of the charm of using a jetpack as opposed to say, a levitation device. The main purpose of the jetpack is to blast you around at blindingly fast speeds; if the main purpose of the jetpack was just to hover, it’d just be a glorified glider.

    As for a free second weapon, it’s much more limited than say, Druid or Holo.

    Finally, for the bow, not every skill is going to be a targeted aoe, When say “good sustained dps” I mean that the auto-attack isn’t garbage like Rifle, requiring you to run a another kit (I mean for the shortbow to compliment the Med kit in a support setup). When I compare it to an arrowcart it’s obviously not going to be anywhere near that size of that AoE, especially on the offensive attacks. The exploding icicle arrows sounds hideously OP because it sounds cool, but in reality it would look like this:
    -Deal damage in an area. After a delay, deal damage again and chill in that area.

    Plenty of professions have non-projectile ranged attacks that hit rather hard. The fact that it looks like Barrage doesn’t mean it’ll be anywhere as effective.

    I understood what you meant by jetpack, which is why I called it out as basically trying to sneak in two weapons for one Elite. Bobbing up and down in the air isn't enough of a justification, mechanically, for an entirely new set of weapon skills on top of the new weapon you already get. There isn't much point to a jetpack mechanic that is basically dodging. If changes in movement options were enough to justify a brand new set of weapons the Daredevil and Mirage would have gotten them too as both of those are movement based professions that work off of positioning and dodges. No matter how you limit it, though, you are still giving them a free second weapon.

    People really need to stop giving Rifle so much grief. It actually is a solid weapon. Using the Rifle does not require you to run another kit. In the realm of firearms, it's the pistols that are underwhelming. Our rifle gives us a nice set of attacks. Also, the exploding icicle doesn't sound OP because it sounds cool, I don't think it sounds cool in the least, it's OP because you have it doing a bunch of different things. First, it arches into the air to avoid being reflected, then it comes down as a bunch of icicles, then it explodes. Oh, and it's a bomb arrow. And it also adds a condition. If I thought it sounded it cool I might have ignored it being an overpowered set of abilities. Your proposed arrow shot is better than Mortar skill, and that's an elite skill.

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