The Next Elite Spec; What Is Engineer Missing? - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

The Next Elite Spec; What Is Engineer Missing?

13>

Comments

  • Atmaweapon.7345Atmaweapon.7345 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2018

    The theoretical icicle attack is:
    -Deal damage in an area.
    -After a period of time, enemies in the area take damage and are chilled.

    All the fluff about bombs and stuff is to explain why it functions the way it does and how it differs from what an elementalist can do. Also Freeze grenades are as good/better than Endothermic blast so I don’t know what you’re getting at there with certain Mortar kit abilities being outclassed.

    My point about Rifle damage was oriented towards PvE where Bomb autos deal 50% more dps than Hipshot.

    Finally, the Spear suggestion was more of a way to add some fun and relevance to Underwater weapons. If the balance problem is literally equipping a second weapon, that part can be dropped easily and the spear can be an implied weapon.

  • I want to say something about the Golemancer ideas flying around: I’m not against using a mech in some fashion and fulfilling the Iron Man fantasy, but I’m against it specifically being a Golem because Golems are magically animated constructs made out of stone. If anything I think Golemancer would take a page from Blish and work better a Necromancer spec where you bind your soul to a construct and puppeteer it while also being able to jump into it to protect yourself. Essentially, it’d be a reverse Soulbeast where your Deathshroud can act independently of you.

    Approaching Engineer from a Mechrider perspective also opens up a lot of aesthetic possibilities over a stone golem. We have Watchknights and Steam creatures and tanks running around afterall.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Atmaweapon.7345 said:
    The theoretical icicle attack is:
    -Deal damage in an area.
    -After a period of time, enemies in the area take damage and are chilled.

    All the fluff about bombs and stuff is to explain why it functions the way it does and how it differs from what an elementalist can do. Also Freeze grenades are as good/better than Endothermic blast so I don’t know what you’re getting at there with certain Mortar kit abilities being outclassed.

    My point about Rifle damage was oriented towards PvE where Bomb autos deal 50% more dps than Hipshot.

    Finally, the Spear suggestion was more of a way to add some fun and relevance to Underwater weapons. If the balance problem is literally equipping a second weapon, that part can be dropped easily and the spear can be an implied weapon.

    Dude, I completely understand the effect. You don't need to re-explain it or strip it of flavor. It doesn't change the nature of the critique. The only person caught up on the fluff is you. Your designed shot is better than Endothermic Shell, an elite skill. Endothermic Shell does everything you discuss, sans a delayed secondary chill and damage effect. And no, Freeze Grenades are not better than Endothermic Shell. The grenades do 178 damage to 5 targets in a radius of 120 with a range of 900. ES does 355 damage to 5 targets in a radius of 240 with a range of 1500 and drops and ice field. In noooooooooooooooo way are Freeze grenades better than that. If you think Freeze grenades are better, or even equal to, then I understand why you don't get that you designed an OP skill.

    Also, why are you comparing the Rifle auto to an auto you get from a utility skill? Of course, it's stronger. It's a utility skill. It's also bombs. You are comparing a rifle shot to a bomb. There would be something seriously wrong if the Hip Shot was doing more damage. Also, underwater skills lack relevance because players don't really like underwater combat. Engineer doesn't even use spear. Still, an implied weapon is still a weapon. You're adding a different kind of weapon attack for dodging.

    @Atmaweapon.7345 said:
    I want to say something about the Golemancer ideas flying around: I’m not against using a mech in some fashion and fulfilling the Iron Man fantasy, but I’m against it specifically being a Golem because Golems are magically animated constructs made out of stone. If anything I think Golemancer would take a page from Blish and work better a Necromancer spec where you bind your soul to a construct and puppeteer it while also being able to jump into it to protect yourself. Essentially, it’d be a reverse Soulbeast where your Deathshroud can act independently of you.

    Approaching Engineer from a Mechrider perspective also opens up a lot of aesthetic possibilities over a stone golem. We have Watchknights and Steam creatures and tanks running around afterall.

    In this game Golems are machines. To claim that all it is is magic is to ignore the current lore surrounding golemancers. Don't confuse the material used to make them as how they work. They are controlled or were controlled, with joysticks and pads. The newer models are operated using a mind interface, that is not magic. The game lore references it as technology. If it were magically in nature it would say as much given the way in which magic and technology coexists.

  • I was comparing Rifle auto to Bomb auto to highlight the disparity in dps in regards to how the Bow auto would be balanced to be higher sustained damage than the Rifle, yet weaker than bomb, but just good enough to be able to justify not running bomb kit in PvE because as a support you would already be running Medkit for healing (and probably elixir gun too.) As for the implied weapon... well yeah? If the Jetpack is the focal point of the elite, you should naturally have skills you can utilize with it to accentuate its importance.

    You're also throwing around numbers without even taking into account that Freeze grenade hits 3 times and chills upfront. I didn't even post any numbers for the icicle attack and you're saying it's OP on the basis that it would ignore projectile hate and Mortar doesn't. AoE chill attacks that ignore projectile hate already exist in the game.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Atmaweapon.7345 said:
    I was comparing Rifle auto to Bomb auto to highlight the disparity in dps in regards to how the Bow auto would be balanced to be higher sustained damage than the Rifle, yet weaker than bomb, but just good enough to be able to justify not running bomb kit in PvE because as a support you would already be running Medkit for healing (and probably elixir gun too.) As for the implied weapon... well yeah? If the Jetpack is the focal point of the elite, you should naturally have skills you can utilize with it to accentuate its importance.

    You're also throwing around numbers without even taking into account that Freeze grenade hits 3 times and chills upfront. I didn't even post any numbers for the icicle attack and you're saying it's OP on the basis that it would ignore projectile hate and Mortar doesn't. AoE chill attacks that ignore projectile hate already exist in the game.

    You're still comparing Rifle to a utility skill that is meant to be a bit stronger. Kit weapons were designed as a replacement for weapon swap. Making them strong is just sane game design. Comparing Rifle and Bomb auto to make a point about another hypothetical weapon is not going to work in your favor. The least of which you are trying to make a point about a weapon so that you don't have to run a certain set of kits. Those kits are all optional. Engineer can already do well in PvE without needing to run Medkit, Elixir Gun, and Bomb Kit. You are making this false assumption that these kits you are trying to not justify running are already not justified in running.

    You also need to stop waffling on the jetpack. First, it's an important skill that is used to hover and position. Then it's just something you could do to gain access to these weapon traits but you know you could also just dodge instead. Then it's back to being a focal point. It's just a gimmick though.

    Oh, and yes I tossed out numbers. You made a bad point about Freeze Grenades somehow being better than Endothermic Shell. Yeah, it tosses three grenades and does 178 in damage. If the damage was per grenade it would be written as Damage (3x) 178. Also, I already explained what made it OP. It's not that it avoids projectile damage (despite being an arrow) and Mortar doesn't. It's that it is multiple effects in one. Your effect is that it does it ignores projectile hate, does damage, then does damage again and chills. Mortar avoids projectile and does damage once. The Elite does damage once and you want to give a non-Elite skill most of what Mortar does in addition to being able to do a delayed damage attack. You want a bow that fires a bunch of barrage skills and those skills do damage and then those same skills do damage again and apply a condition. Oh, it will also do higher sustained damage than the rifle, but you know not more than the bomb. It's not really a good weapon design.

13>
©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.