Tonic exploit?

Fighting a group of 3 tonight who constantly go in and out of the ursan tonic while in combat.Wiki on the tonic: "Consuming the Ursan Tonic turns you into a Kodan. While turned you cannot fight."

Yet, this group is constantly attacking with the transformation icon on their characters. So, during the fight their character picture would go from Asura, to shroud (necro) to ursan in just about every order combination. What was odd, despite the really good sustain from the FB, was that even when the FB wasn't healing (dead for example) their health would regen like they were out of combat. Anyone know how people are attacking with the tonic active? And do tonics put you "out of combat" even if you are still mid-fight with a bunch of people?

This one is really confusing me.

@"Ubi.4136" said:Fighting a group of 3 tonight who constantly go in and out of the ursan tonic while in combat.Wiki on the tonic: "Consuming the Ursan Tonic turns you into a Kodan. While turned you cannot fight."

Yet, this group is constantly attacking with the transformation icon on their characters. So, during the fight their character picture would go from Asura, to shroud (necro) to ursan in just about every order combination. What was odd, despite the really good sustain from the FB, was that even when the FB wasn't healing (dead for example) their health would regen like they were out of combat. Anyone know how people are attacking with the tonic active? And do tonics put you "out of combat" even if you are still mid-fight with a bunch of people?

This one is really confusing me.

before there was a bug where you cant crit a kodan but was fixed.

so far i have not experience what you did. hope devs can confirm.

Hope you're not getting it confused with the Endless Kodan Tonic (combat tonic) whereas the Ursan Tonic is exactly that... not allowed to fight.

@Zephyra.4709 said:Hope you're not getting it confused with the Endless Kodan Tonic (combat tonic) whereas the Ursan Tonic is exactly that... not allowed to fight.

I am often confused, especially when I play a long time during the day. It's possible I'm just tired. But, much like you fall when out of combat and take damage, as soon as the damage stops you get full regen (no boon), their in combat regen with the tonic up is that, permanently.

edit: I think the best example I can give is it's like regen in guild wars 1. It's like they all have a passive +8 regen, every time the tonic goes up...even with the firebrand dead and no boons up, and it's 2 reapers, not warriors (adrenal health). Actually, it is about 5 times better than adrenal health by comparison.

I am often confused, especially when I play a long time during the day. It's possible I'm just tired. But, much like you fall when out of combat and take damage, as soon as the damage stops you get full regen (no boon), their in combat regen with the tonic up is that, permanently.

Just tested both Endless Kodan Tonic + Ursan Tonic ...as long as you are in combat you cannot revert/change tonics or turn into a tonic.

You are correct in that, as long as you are out of combat when taking falling dmg you will regen health rapidly shortly after, there's like a grace period before you start healing again? As for your previous statement which I will quote here:

What was odd, despite the really good sustain from the FB, was that even when the FB wasn't healing (dead for example) their health would regen like they were out of combat.

This may be a case of a thief/mesmer being stealthed, out of combat and rezzing the downed body. I've done it tonnes of times on my Deadeye since it's extremely easy to shadow-step out of range of your attackers (thus finally being out of combat) and shadow-step back in time to spam F on the dead ally (and pray you don't get CC'd haha) in order to stealth rez them.

you cant use the endless kodan tonic ( combat tonic) during combat. you have to use it before combat.but what you probably see is for example a holo or a druid if they use the tonic they will be a kodan, yet in photon forge or celestial avatar they are normal form. works with every combat tonic. not sure if necro shroud is also affected by it

what you probably see is for example a holo or a druid if they use the tonic they will be a kodan, yet in photon forge or celestial avatar they are normal form. works with every combat tonic. not sure if necro shroud is also affected by it

Tested on my Reaper just now using Endless Kodan Tonic. Your character does indeed go back to their racial form (in my case, Asuran reaper shroud form) and as soon as you exit shroud it snaps back to the Kodan form. Honestly never realized this until now... it's probably why OP was getting confused at times.

@Zephyra.4709 said:

what you probably see is for example a holo or a druid if they use the tonic they will be a kodan, yet in photon forge or celestial avatar they are normal form. works with every combat tonic. not sure if necro shroud is also affected by it

Yep, you guys are right. That matches exactly what the video is showing mostly. There does at times appear to be a delay before and after shroud, so it looks like they are just changing in and out at random, but it seems linked to reaper shroud (with delays, likely lag on my end). So tonic up, fighting, shroud (shows asura), back to tonic after shroud drops (occasionally with lag delay).

Thanks guys/gals. Was really scratching my brain for some useful brain cells at this hour.

Dont this go against the ideal game should be about visual gameplay?

Ins't is the same has if u could do other classes animation with other class so your target could not counter due visuals skills???

@Aeolus.3615 said:Dont this go against the ideal game should be about visual gameplay?

Ins't is the same has if u could do other classes animation with other class so your target could not counter due visuals skills???

this game doesnt allways use standartised visuals and you dont allways have the option to turn it into standard visuals.for example skin based projectile animations, even with standard enemy models were you have a standard weapon skin, your projectile will still be unique. you can force the sound to be accurate but not the animation. with that for example on my deadeye my rifle skills can have 4 different animation depending on if i use a standard weapon, either legendary or the strongest rifle : Pop Gun. because it has the least striking visuals so you really do get less aggro in a messy group fight, or generally when attacking from out of the FoV.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:Dont this go against the ideal game should be about visual gameplay?

Ins't is the same has if u could do other classes animation with other class so your target could not counter due visuals skills???

Yes but it is easy to what tsee what the visual is and what is what ur are shooting in that case, contradictory for what i understood with the kodan tonic, wich will hide way more visuals that actually are needed for perception of the skills being casted??

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:Dont this go against the ideal game should be about visual gameplay?

Ins't is the same has if u could do other classes animation with other class so your target could not counter due visuals skills???

no standard visuals of deadeye rifle skills have each a different projectile animation. if you study them a little you might get to a point when you see a bullet coming from behind into your field of view that you will know what skill it is and what effects it will do. the pop gun and the legendaries use the same animation regardless of skill used. so it hides information.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:Dont this go against the ideal game should be about visual gameplay?

Ins't is the same has if u could do other classes animation with other class so your target could not counter due visuals skills???

Oh good point, the deadeye unblockable skill would look the same like the blockables ones then... this is a requirement fail for ESL games actually.

Usually comes with a stronger red bullet effect if im not in mistake.

Combat tonics would be less worst, if they wouldn’t overwrite the Standard Models. Later should have top priority, and combat transformations should only be visible, if you don’t use Standard Models.First they wanted to adjust the hardly visible animations and different sizes of the effects (guardian shield bubble) and introduced the Human-only models. And now, everyone can run around as Char, Norn, even Asura again, reintroducing the exact same problems, which first led to the Standard Models. :rage: