Outnumbered Deadeye Roaming (No SA)

Enjoy or don't, whatevs.

Thanks for posting! Have you tried running Mercy instead of BP? I find on that build that the extra Mark has more value than 3s of stealth. It's got that quickness (+200power/precision), Mug, poison, boonsteal, daze, 2 initiative(in addition to 3+1perMalice), ToTC, and Vigor)

SA IS FOR THE WEAK! ;)

@Scud.5067 said:SA IS FOR THE WEAK! ;)

and trickery on DE for the stupid :3

hes doing good but he could do soo much more with SA..

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Scud.5067 said:SA IS FOR THE WEAK! ;)

IT'S TREASON THEN! :3

Trickery is awesome for DE. Moreso I guess if you don't have allot of time to play and just need to plow through stuff. Love SA for Rending Shade sometimes though.

@kash.9213 said:Trickery is awesome for DE. Moreso I guess if you don't have allot of time to play and just need to plow through stuff. Love SA for Rending Shade sometimes though.

trickery on DE is only good if you play for frontloadead damage and pretty much kill your opponents with your initial engage, wich is good against bad opponents but not so much against better opponents.what deadeye excells in tho is building up a burst to kill their opponents wich is alot better against good opponents. but in that case trickery is less usefull because at a later point in the fight on DD or core you would profit from the boon rip or the interrupt but DE is not that free in using his mark and has a casttime on it so he wont be using it at a later point for boon rip / interrupt to setup the burst. if you do not build for front loaded damage you also will mostelikely go for m7 over BQoBK, with that you will not need the ini from trickery. you simply cant utilize the utility from trickery as much on DE as you can on DD/core.similar with DA. on DD / core meta builds you use it. it provides posion because you need to make quick retreats and reengages and wouldnt want your opponent to heal much, it provides weakness because your in melee wich is alot more dangerous, it provides immob with panic strike to easier apply damage wich is more difficult with a melee weapon to a moving target. on DE with rifle you mostly have a range advantage and do not even get hit, so weakness is not as important, you apply constant pressure and higher pressure while your opponent tries to close the gap, so you do not need as much poison, you have projectiles that hit pretty reliable so you dont need immob or can just use an immob shot.DA and trickery both are offensive utility traitlines but DE with rifle doesnt profit from the utility as much as DD or core. wich makes for DE critical strikes better as offensive traitline. critical strikes however provides soo much damage that you can afford taking SA wich you can hardly justify on DD / core.SA gives you the option to have very fast frequent onesided resets as deadeye so you wear down your opponents defensive and offensive options while spending nearly no resources and at the same time you prepare a huge burst that will be ready when your opponent is no longer ready to defend against it properly. that makes it very strong.

1. DD thief without any food/nourishment.
2. Sees another DE thief and do NOT enter stealth immediately.
3. Ignores first DJ shot - gets hit into his face for 12k.
4. Ignores second DJ shot - gets downed.

Overall nice montage, but... where do I find enemies like yours? I mean those, who have their endurance locked at zero whole time.

trickery on DE is only good if you play for frontloadead damage and pretty much kill your opponents with your initial engage, wich is good against bad opponents but not so much against better opponents.Hmm, Lead attacks max stacks only after 15 initiative spent, Trickster provides condi-cleanse and lesser cd for Withdraw/Roll for Initiative, Preparedness provides bigger initiative pool for longer fights and easier Maleficent Seven procing, Thrill of the Crime combined with reduced cd on Steal provides 60%+ uptime on Fury/Swiftness. Now how is it possible, that Trickery is for fronloaded damage, while Critical Strike is for extended fights?

My five cents for WvW thiefs: use Acrobatics - no matter what weapon set and stat composition you run. Instant Reflexes and Hard to Catch saved my life dozens of times allowing me to keep fighting instead of spawning at the Keep and stacking Bloodlust sigil again.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@kash.9213 said:Trickery is awesome for DE. Moreso I guess if you don't have allot of time to play and just need to plow through stuff. Love SA for Rending Shade sometimes though.

very strong arguments. But tell me my man why SA doesnt work in pvp?

@Urejt.5648 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@kash.9213 said:Trickery is awesome for DE. Moreso I guess if you don't have allot of time to play and just need to plow through stuff. Love SA for Rending Shade sometimes though.

Because PvP is about capturing points, and sitting in stealth does not let you capture points, nor does it help your teammates. Luckily Mudse is talking about WvW where we don't need no stinkin' capture points! xD

@Urejt.5648 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@kash.9213 said:Trickery is awesome for DE. Moreso I guess if you don't have allot of time to play and just need to plow through stuff. Love SA for Rending Shade sometimes though.

because in spvp you only need frontloaded damage when you +1. SA is to extend the fight without losing resources. therefor i would go for CS + trickery in spvp or if you want to go little defensive CS/trickery + acro for the instant reflexes, but shouldnt be needed.

@Firiat.6308 said:

trickery on DE is only good if you play for frontloadead damage and pretty much kill your opponents with your initial engage, wich is good against bad opponents but not so much against better opponents.Hmm, Lead attacks max stacks only after 15 initiative spent, Trickster provides condi-cleanse and lesser cd for Withdraw/Roll for Initiative, Preparedness provides bigger initiative pool for longer fights and easier Maleficent Seven procing, Thrill of the Crime combined with reduced cd on Steal provides 60%+ uptime on Fury/Swiftness. Now how is it possible, that Trickery is for fronloaded damage, while Critical Strike is for extended fights?

preparedness gives you more ini at the beginning of the fight wich just lets you spamm more frontloaded damage, it doesnt give you ini regen for extended fights. spamming right there makes only sense if you hit more of it, therefor with quickness for wich you will run BQoBK and not m7. sure you can proc m7 easier with more ini to begin, but you dont need more ini if you dont just spamm mindlessly. its a nice bonus but thats not a reason to invest into it, thats simply not efficient.fury access is way better on CS then on trickery by picking no quarter or you weave stealth with hidden killer letting you crit even with 100% so you dont need precision. critical strikes gives much higher constant damage bonus than trickery. i dont see why you would run RFI over mercy, i mean the soft CC cleanse is nice but it still locks you into an animation wich is a big drawback. 1 condi cleanse every 15s , yeah thats gonna cover my condi cleanses. and if you run SA thats again not even needed as SA has the very best condi cleanse a thief can trait into.i did try it with trickery over CS a while because i wanted to know if i can make the boonrip of it usefull as we had lost our cursed bullet with the rework. but it is just quite a bit lower damage and provides utility not needed or in case of its boon rip and interrupt not practical cause of cast time and being more or less forced to use mark at specific times for malice rather then just for its boonrip or rupt. the only bonus was that i could spamm mindlessly at the beginning of the fights wich results in little higher frontloaded damage, but over extended fights CS just provides more damage.

instant reflexes is good but thats not enough for me to use a traitline slot for it in WvW. in spvp maybe because if you only +1 you dont need as much offense or defense in wich case an oh shit trait gains in value.

SA to TR one for one comparison assuming Rifle used.

More INI in TR but DE not really lacking INI with Mali7 and or Mercy. Condition cleanse in SA simply superior as you will drop in and out of stealth frequently, much more so than you will get an evade out of a TR cleanse . Further to that it always gets damaging conditions. With all that stealth Cover conditions harder to get on.

Kleptomaniac versus Merciful Ambush.With MA You can bring an ally up from downed in hurry and the remainder of the Traits in SA line mesh much better with Merciful. As in you are also getting a cleanse , you are warding off damage, you are setting up for a stealth attack and so on. INI is not as big an issue in DE as other builds and kelpto is just INI. None of the other traits out of the TR line Mesh with Klepto outside it being a source of INI for the preparedeness trait. Edge SA

SE versus BOA or TOTC. Depends on alternate Fury sources . Much like MUDSE I find the CS line as Fury source vastly superior and it can also be used as a Might source easily getting you to full stacks. Thus if you take CS BOA and TOTC are redundant outside of the extra quickness source in BOA. Taking SE in place of one of these two if you are in the CS line is an excellent Condition cleanse source. Edge SA predicated on being in CS. If CS not selected over DA you only gain advantage in TR and specifically if base precision low. Edge SA.

Preparedness versus Meld with shadows. That extra second in stealth is significant as with hidden theif it allows greater movement when stealthed. It also gets a second damaging condition cleanse with a single stealth use. 3 INI is 3 INI and always useful even in a build with other INI sources. I would give edge to TR.

Hidden Thief Versus Bountiful theft (Or Trickster) . Hidden thief is another source of stealth at range. The speed add when stealthed key to the skill as it more then makes up for lack of swiftness access which the TR line grants. BT is also a beaut. I give the edge to TR if taking BT but that leaves the TR build short of Condition cleanse. This gives SA advantages. I call this a draw.

SR versus lead attacks. 25 percent damage taken while stealthed is sweet. It synergizes with all of the other skills in the line and coupled with Iron sight can lead to 25 and 10 damage reduction. This will save your butt many times particularly through channled attacks (rapid fire) or AOE. Indeed I found it can swing a battle your way against another DE or DD thief trying to use Cleave or their own channeled attacks against you after a stealth. 15 percent damage is 15 percent damage. Edge TR.

Sleight of Hand versus any one of the GM traits. For the purposes of a stealth based build ANY of the GM traits superior to SOA or QP/BA. Yeah that stun on mark can be nice but the downtime on it high. Those GM traits out of SA can be used Consistently. CIS makes it next to impoosible to kill you if you stealth. See Merciful ambush RS rips away boons at will and trumps BT as a boon rip. Shadows Rejuv can fill your health up quick and provide a little INI > All of these are functioning every time you stealth which is often in a DE build. If you are going to stealth that often then maximizing what your stealths do is always a good choice. Edge SA.

This does not mean TR a bad choice for a DE build. If in a build not using Rifle and not as stealth focused (s/p or s/d as example) TR a better choice. If you are set on just getting that raw damage out as fast as possible and the heck with surviving the Counters, you might prefer TR.

I don't blow through initiative anyway but I like Bountiful Theft and Sleight of Hand and of course I'm using BQ over M7. I like most of the trait lines and I use them all but the classic DA & Trickery always syncs right with my eyes, ears, and hands and it floats well through different fights. You can write a book about SA being better and you might be right but save it for someone who's actually arguing with you.

To chime in-

@Turk.5460 said:Thanks for posting! Have you tried running Mercy instead of BP? I find on that build that the extra Mark has more value than 3s of stealth. It's got that quickness (+200power/precision), Mug, poison, boonsteal, daze, 2 initiative(in addition to 3+1perMalice), ToTC, and Vigor)

I have. I dont normally run blinding powder. I used to run mercy in the old deadeye spec. The double stun from mark was amazing. Now I just use assassin signet because it's a great opener and when it's off cd my opponents have normally used all of their defensive cds.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Scud.5067 said:SA IS FOR THE WEAK! ;)

A lot of old school thieves were brought up, taught, whatever, to not use SA because it's easy mode and takes a ton of damage away for defensive abilities you dont really need.

I use trickery because it makes mark a 17s'ish cooldown. With DA that's another heal, with crit strikes it's another burst. And more BQoBK procs.

@"Firiat.6308" said:

/

Ranger without Stoneform? Unless it was proced right before first fight happend - he is just another walking lootbag... also no Signet of Stone...

You start shooting at 2:35, his first dodge roll is at 2:38... just wow...

Hands down - it's the best part.

1. DD thief without any food/nourishment.
2. Sees another DE thief and do NOT enter stealth immediately.
3. Ignores first DJ shot - gets hit into his face for 12k.
4. Ignores second DJ shot - gets downed.

Overall nice montage, but... where do I find enemies like yours? I mean those, who have their endurance locked at zero whole time.

trickery on DE is only good if you play for frontloadead damage and pretty much kill your opponents with your initial engage, wich is good against bad opponents but not so much against better opponents.Hmm, Lead attacks max stacks only after 15 initiative spent, Trickster provides condi-cleanse and lesser cd for Withdraw/Roll for Initiative, Preparedness provides bigger initiative pool for longer fights and easier Maleficent Seven procing, Thrill of the Crime combined with reduced cd on Steal provides 60%+ uptime on Fury/Swiftness. Now how is it possible, that Trickery is for fronloaded damage, while Critical Strike is for extended fights?

I never use acro. I enjoy thief because the main specs dont have an auto'proc defensive trait. I like the twitch combat. And acro allows for bads to play thief. Too many mistakes are allowed when you play acro, and you lose out on loads of damage. I'd rather reroll then feel like I HAVE to play acro to play thief

The ranger was running the mega dps build for soulbeasts. If you haven't seen one of these before idk what to tell you.

The daredevil didnt ignore the second DJ, he was animation locked in heartseeker.

You'd be surprised at how many roamers panic when they get chunked for a lot of hp. Or when they forget DJ is unblockable now. So warriors, guards, eles, engis think they're gonna reflect or block a DJ and they wear the 10k+ to the face. Works very well. Especially with my build I get close to 3700 power with full stacks. Could be close to 3900 but I find the crit damage from critical Grant's me more burst than the more power when revealed.

@Remix.2086 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Scud.5067 said:SA IS FOR THE WEAK! ;)