bring back holy trinity monk class

from the beginning we already had some variant of holy trinity with 1 dedicate healer (ele and guards with short time revenant). so why not to make a class which focus on that like the monk from gw1.

isnt that basically Firebrand? The community had allready spoken how they feel about this kind specs here, so whats the point of having some heavy support spec on game? Just to see it get murdered patch after patch like FB got? I mean, sure FB might still be played a lot on AT or something, but soloQueue? 80% of guards on Plat 2~1 were Radiance Core....

Firebrand/VentariRev/Tempest/Druid/Scrapper(?) can all be support/healers, but the problem is that Firebrand does it better than the rest of them.They're all in need of various levels of retooling or buffs to be made as viable supports. However, people then go MUH BUNKER META and we see such builds get canned when they're able to support themselves and others, or just not worth running when they can heal others decently but fold like paper otherwise (Ventari Rev).

The guardian class inherits a lot of the former monk skills (smiting and protection) - on firebrand now even the excessive healing.

It's basically a healer.

only if smite (and therefore RoJ) is op

@Felipe.1807 said:isnt that basically Firebrand? The community had allready spoken how they feel about this kind specs here, so whats the point of having some heavy support spec on game? Just to see it get murdered patch after patch like FB got? I mean, sure FB might still be played a lot on AT or something, but soloQueue? 80% of guards on Plat 2~1 were Radiance Core....

I played a decent amount of FB this season. The higher you go, the more common support FB becomes. It's still an incredibly broken class; and duo coming back will bring back more necro / fb duos.

But without having a strong necro (or rev, or other DPS spec) playing FB can be pretty frustrating. I've had games I switch to full mender heal only to watch my necro see 4 enemies stealth, then proceed to walk into mid and get one shot without even dodging once. That's GG because your necro just isn't on the level they need to be to be worth healing. It says NOTHING about the strength of FB; which is huge. It just means you need your team to play appropriately or it falls off hard. The same is true for necro in many regards.

I agree core guard is more common, but I think that's mostly because it's a DPS build (which more players enjoy) and it has more carry potential (because it's very spikey and less team reliant).

Eternal life monks of Gw1 in GW2? No thanks

that's so true as we have some sort of healer as FB. but monk in gw1 wasnt build to play as 1 ally healer and follow him (maybe in pve farm) but in pvp from what i can remember it was a group healer which spamm heal skills on the entire group from range while in gw2 its hardly exist in pvp (maybe due to point holds system)also in gw1 you had ways to counter the healer and shut it down while in gw2 its much much much harder.and remember that most ppl want the pvp from gw1 the system and the veraity in game modes and builds

I absolutely love monk from gw1, was my main. The healing was so strong and spell break could completely shut down any counters. A good monk could make a pvp 8 vs 8 match take an eternity to complete. I remember watching gvg games and they were so long. I am glad I can get in several 10 minute games, monks nothing would ever die. I do miss alliance battles, wish we had a 12v12 mode with 3 teams per side.

@Etheri.5406 said:

@"Felipe.1807" said:isnt that basically Firebrand? The community had allready spoken how they feel about this kind specs here, so whats the point of having some heavy support spec on game? Just to see it get murdered patch after patch like FB got? I mean, sure FB might still be played a lot on AT or something, but soloQueue? 80% of guards on Plat 2~1 were Radiance Core....

Yeah, thats why i said, " sure FB might still be played a lot on AT or something"...is strong when you have a strong comp that can work together, but thats not the kinds of game you have on ranked, not even on Plat...I was playing on Plat 2 and like i said, 80% were core guardians, is not worth playing FB with a team that is not organized, it cant carry games, it dosent have CC for days like old Ventari that you could 1v2~3 and uncap the point or Druid that could troll far 1v3 all day...a single power spec is allready enough to give FB some pressure, add a second one and his done.

@"Felipe.1807" said:

Yeah, thats why i said, " sure FB might still be played a lot on AT or something"...is strong when you have a strong comp that can work together, but thats not the kinds of game you have on ranked, not even on Plat...I was playing on Plat 2 and like i said, 80% were core guardians, is not worth playing FB with a team that is not organized, it cant carry games, it dosent have CC for days like old Ventari that you could 1v2~3 and uncap the point or Druid that could troll far 1v3 all day...a single power spec is allready enough to give FB some pressure, add a second one and his done.

I understand this, but how does bringing a Monk-like playstyle help that situation? Lower skill players will always be a nightmare for a support to try carrying because they're just that - low skill players; the uncoordinated will also have difficulty maximizing an FB's (or "Monk's")presence, as you've mentioned. I doubt a spec solely about healing/support with some control will change that much.

As much as I want Ventari Rev/Druid, Tempest ect to be good at supporting, I also doubt Anet will allow them to be Supporters who can also node-stall again after the subsequent nerfs to each of them (especially Druid, which was notorious for its ability to do just that despite having underwhelming team support getting hammered multiple times). People always cry out about such builds being able to 1vX and their inability to reliably deal with their presence on a map made such builds despised by many.

@messiah.1908 said:monk in gw1 wasnt build to play as 1 ally healer and follow him (maybe in pve farm) but in pvp from what i can remember it was a group healer which spamm heal skills on the entire group from range while in gw2 its hardly exist in pvp (maybe due to point holds system)

This isn’t actually true .here is the major difference between gw1 healing and gw2 healing

In Gw1, most healing abilities could not heal the monk themselves. The ones that did were used in the meta because it was unpractical to be the top focused class and not be able to protect yourself. So in a cleverly designed way nearly all healing abilities that could target yourself were only single target. So if you were under pressure as a monk you could only heal yourself and not have enough breathing room to heal others on your team, so a common strategy back then was to fake spike the monk and switch to another target really fast to obtain a kill.

Unlike gw1, gw2 has nothing but AOE healing when it comes to support classes because of their logic of not playing the UI with single target heals. As a consequence, you can have healers like firebrand able to heal not only themselves but the entire team, and create a bunker situation.

This is just a fundamental flaw with the initial design logic of the game and has to be complete revamped from the ground up.

If I can 55 again, I don't see why not. ;) ;)

I think Monk would reduce power creep since not every class would need to be a super healer.

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@messiah.1908 said:monk in gw1 wasnt build to play as 1 ally healer and follow him (maybe in pve farm) but in pvp from what i can remember it was a group healer which spamm heal skills on the entire group from range while in gw2 its hardly exist in pvp (maybe due to point holds system)

in some sort its true nut also the same tactic is valid in gw2. spike the healer make him use some healing abilities and than spike the dmg dealer. its true that gw2 has more aoe healing (see ventari who basically is almost close to gw1 monk and you have to be near the tablet to get the heal (so its like clicking on ally in gw1).and still the monk in gw1 didnt design to be 1 ally healer rather group healer (like ventari who lack in self heal and cleanse but great in output heals)

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@"Felipe.1807" said:

Yeah, thats why i said, " sure FB might still be played a lot on AT or something"...is strong when you have a strong comp that can work together, but thats not the kinds of game you have on ranked, not even on Plat...I was playing on Plat 2 and like i said, 80% were core guardians, is not worth playing FB with a team that is not organized, it cant carry games, it dosent have CC for days like old Ventari that you could 1v2~3 and uncap the point or Druid that could troll far 1v3 all day...a single power spec is allready enough to give FB some pressure, add a second one and his done.

the fixing of that would be easy . prevent them from holding point and give them heal ability. so like distortion every time you using heal skill which heal yourself you lose 1 pip in capture point (this is harsh i know but there must be more ways to handle this)

The trinity is in the game already i say just end eles pain and make it into a monk class.

@"messiah.1908" said:and still the monk in gw1 didnt design to be 1 ally healer rather group healer (like ventari who lack in self heal and cleanse but great in output heals)

Just take a look at the WoH monk Meta build, which had been a staple of PvP in gw1 for many many years

https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Build:Mo/W_RA_WoH_Monk

Every skill is single target, with nearly all the skills available to the monk with the purpose of being to be able to heal yourself and/or one other person (infuse health for example). Most AoE heals with the exception of Heal Party were not viable.

@Tehologist.5841 said:I absolutely love monk from gw1, was my main. The healing was so strong and spell break could completely shut down any counters. A good monk could make a pvp 8 vs 8 match take an eternity to complete. I remember watching gvg games and they were so long. I am glad I can get in several 10 minute games, monks nothing would ever die. I do miss alliance battles, wish we had a 12v12 mode with 3 teams per side.

There were a ton of ways to shut down a monk. You needed a very good front line to have a long fight. They needed to be able to interrupt key skills and keep the same from happening to you.

WE ALREADY HAVE THEM on several classes o_O

Anet cant make a trully monk class due nature of aoe spam game needs to be easy for scrubs and casuals, reason FB heals have been nerfed over time, they try but always end on making it way to easy to be carried due overperformance issues.

Now guardian Staff could be the weapon changed for that gameplay, probably that could be tuned and balanced for "monking" making guardians a decent and balanced setup for that roles.

Exactly, good teams could counter each other into a long stale mate. I used to play ranger interrupt and Mesmer as well. 1/4 second cast are next to impossible to interrupt. You would also get targeted fast by enemy team when you tried. It was a very different game, guardians have a lot of the monk skills. I just think of guardian as heavy armor monks, if want to fake it, get gem store monk armor and use scepter staff.

I voted "no" because I don't like the expression of holy trinity.

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"messiah.1908" said:and still the monk in gw1 didnt design to be 1 ally healer rather group healer (like ventari who lack in self heal and cleanse but great in output heals)

i didnt say single target rather 1 ally target. you could see monk cast 1 single target skills on all of his allies whether it was a cleanse or heal or both. now mostly you see guard move with necro mainly

@messiah.1908 said:i didnt say single target rather 1 ally target. you could see monk cast 1 single target skills on all of his allies whether it was a cleanse or heal or both. now mostly you see guard move with necro mainly

Your post is confusing. Not sure what you mean because the basis of my response was that the reason gw1 and gw2 are so different is the abundance of AOE heals and being able to heal both the healer and the party member(s) at the same time, rather than having to make a decision between healing yourself or the ally. That’s the root of the problem that can’t be solved without a redesign of healing in gw2

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@messiah.1908 said:i didnt say single target rather 1 ally target. you could see monk cast 1 single target skills on all of his allies whether it was a cleanse or heal or both. now mostly you see guard move with necro mainly

my post didnt mention the word AOE. at the start of gw2 anet stated that it deleted the holy trinity system but as we can see we had ele healer for couple of years with bunker guard to heal guard. so the the statement failed to the reality. so why to fight over it. just create sort of magi amulet with healing abilities and adjust some healing skills to be more around decisions making and not spamming (like ventari the healing accrue around the tablet so ventari has to choose whether to stand near his allies and take hits or stand from range and heal but be vulnerable. but the statement gw2 dont have holy trinity is false so if we fix that maybe we can fix the idea behind the desing of the game for the future