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One observation. (pof)

Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

During Kormir's speech she says that the gods had the counsel about their leaving. They even left their houses... I want to know why they had to leave and they didn't wait until Balthazar death... What about Menzies, Dhuum... They left them in the Mists, also Grenth is no longer watching on the Underground.
Are they scared? :(

Ok anyway Kormir utters the names of Gods who wanted to leave Tyria's matter and when it came to Lyssa she says "EVEN Lyssa".

Why "even"? Kormir should be more like "nooo I have to leave my home, no more thinking about return" but she pointed Lyssa as somebody who is really sorry about their leaving.

Perhaps Lyssa was still on Tyria?
I think Anise and Jennah are Lyssa, even now. I think we might get an info that Queen is gone.

That would also explain why Kormir only said that Balthazar took the mirror, everybody with brain would guess so but in what circumstances it wasn't said so it's another reason that the gods aren't telling the whole truth about Balthazar and the mirror of Lyssa.

The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.

H. P. Lovecraft

Comments

  • There are two possibilities with the Lyssa comment. Either it is because she had a deeper bond with Balthazar (might explain why the gods didn't kill him outright) or that she is just very fond of Tyria and it's inhabitants, something I believe is said about her.

  • The origin of Lyssa (Ilya and Lyss) is unknown. Perhaps she somehow has a bond with Tyria. And before the second rise of Palawa Joko there was a Festival dedicated to Lyssa.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lyssa

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So it looks like that Lyssa betrayed her friend. Ohh the power of friendship... yes...

    I feel sorry for Balthazar.. Balthazar was only one who wanted to return to us... :( It's so sad the writers made him like the vicious guy who wants just smash things.. I'd rather him to be alive than Kralkatorrik.. Such a waste of great character who only wanted to repair things. He didn't and he made awful mistakes but the commander didn't even think about Balthazar and what he feels, he just provoked him so we were killed and I am glad it happened.

    RIP Balthazar. [*]

    The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.

    H. P. Lovecraft

  • It's rather interesting because in Kormir's own secret journal, she wrote that Lyssa mocked her for lingering behind.

  • I don't think there's much meaning behind the word "even". Though the Orrian History Scrolls do say that Lyssa was last of the gods to live among humans and wept when she had to leave them, Kormir's journal says that Lyssa mocked Kormir for staying so long.

    Of course, that could be part of Lyssa's duality concept, or the latter could have been her coping mechanism (if we want to make them more human, but Anet seems to go to great lengths here to dehumanize the gods).

    And people really need to drop the "Anise and Jennah are Lyssa" thing. Kormir outright states that Lyssa and the other four gods left Tyria and its surrounding Mists a long time ago. That council would have been at least 200 years ago, and Kormir stayed as long as she could. Lyssa would have left before GW2's time if not shortly after. Certainly before Season 3.

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  • @Farzo.8410 said:
    It's rather interesting because in Kormir's own secret journal, she wrote that Lyssa mocked her for lingering behind.

    @Arden.7480 said:
    During Kormir's speech she says that the gods had the counsel about their leaving. They even left their houses... I want to know why they had to leave and they didn't wait until Balthazar death... What about Menzies, Dhuum... They left them in the Mists, also Grenth is no longer watching on the Underground.
    Are they scared? :(

    Ok anyway Kormir utters the names of Gods who wanted to leave Tyria's matter and when it came to Lyssa she says "EVEN Lyssa".

    Why "even"? Kormir should be more like "nooo I have to leave my home, no more thinking about return" but she pointed Lyssa as somebody who is really sorry about their leaving.

    Perhaps Lyssa was still on Tyria?
    I think Anise and Jennah are Lyssa, even now. I think we might get an info that Queen is gone.

    That would also explain why Kormir only said that Balthazar took the mirror, everybody with brain would guess so but in what circumstances it wasn't said so it's another reason that the gods aren't telling the whole truth about Balthazar and the mirror of Lyssa.

    With both posts we can surmise that if Lyssa stayed behind it wasn't both of the twin Goddesses but just one while the other mocked Kormir for lingering behind and went with the other Gods.

    Whichever half of Lyssa stayed clearly wouldn't want the Elder Dragons dead and would have orchestrated for their survival doing her best to keep Kralkatorrik alive despite Glint's plan to replace him. Half of Lyssa is probably an Expansion villain.

  • It's clearly stated that the other Gods left long before Kormir. Before the PC dropping the Illusion Balthazar was using to fool the other Human Gods. Perhaps even before Rytlock setting Balthazar free. Kormir stating they would have taken action if the other Human Gods were still there.

    It's been a while since i've been in that instance but i'm quite sure that is what she said.

    Drop the Lyssa being Jenna and Anise. (there are also indications Anise is Livia's daughter and that is way more logical than this)

    Anise appeared after we found out Lazarus was in fact Balthazar. Kormir stating the other Gods left before finding out Balthazar was set free. Do you need more proof?

  • JayMack.8295JayMack.8295 Member ✭✭✭

    Kormir states he used Lyssa's mirror to 'hide the truth from OUR eyes' and that 'by the time the ruse was revealed, the other Gods already departed'. This implies they left somewhere between him being set free by Rytlock and when he obviously got revealed as Balthazar by us.

    On some level I'm convinced Lyssa actually helped Balthazar disguise himself AND helped in stripping him of his power.

    WHERE he got the mirror from has been nagging me for a while. Unless I've missed something obvious where it is explained, I can't see how he got the opportunity to get it after being freed.

    The only thing I can think of is that she left it with him when he was chained up for the hell of it, or Balthazar raided her 'domain' after she left it and grabbed a leftover mirror OR she gave it to him after he freed himself...for some reason.

    There's also the possibility that the mirror was on Tyria and he managed to get it but that also raises even more questions.

    Also, if the implication that they did leave after he disguised himself is true, I find it mighty suspect that Lyssa herself wouldn't be able to see through a disguise of her own making if they at all attempted to even find him.

    Regardless, it's a plot oversight to not explain how Balthazar obtained the mirror so it was either a deliberate lack of explanation to raise questions about the mirror or the writers just didn't have the time/didn't realise. Or maybe it'll get explained in the future...who knows?

  • @JayMack.8295 said:
    Kormir states he used Lyssa's mirror to 'hide the truth from OUR eyes' and that 'by the time the ruse was revealed, the other Gods already departed'. This implies they left somewhere between him being set free by Rytlock and when he obviously got revealed as Balthazar by us.

    I'm not too sure about that. I think Anet is just having their usual order of events problems there, like they also did with Kesho which sunk due to the diverting of the Elon that would have happened in 1135 to 1175, but Vlast was still there even after Glint's death even though he left it before it was sunk.

    This isn't the first time Anet cannot get their order of events correct - Scarlet's history is the same, and even in HoT we had such with the Exalted's timeline. We even saw this same issue with Abaddon's rebellion in 1 BE/Year 0.

    It's a long standing issue where Anet comes up with things that happens... but not the order they happen in properly. Either due to not getting their heads in the game, not communicating, or both.

    But as to the mirror - yeah, an unanswered question that needs answering.

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  • Pax.3548Pax.3548 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @JayMack.8295 said:
    Kormir states he used Lyssa's mirror to 'hide the truth from OUR eyes' and that 'by the time the ruse was revealed, the other Gods already departed'. This implies they left somewhere between him being set free by Rytlock and when he obviously got revealed as Balthazar by us.

    I'm not too sure about that. I think Anet is just having their usual order of events problems there, like they also did with Kesho which sunk due to the diverting of the Elon that would have happened in 1135 to 1175, but Vlast was still there even after Glint's death even though he left it before it was sunk.

    This isn't the first time Anet cannot get their order of events correct - Scarlet's history is the same, and even in HoT we had such with the Exalted's timeline. We even saw this same issue with Abaddon's rebellion in 1 BE/Year 0.

    It's a long standing issue where Anet comes up with things that happens... but not the order they happen in properly. Either due to not getting their heads in the game, not communicating, or both.

    But as to the mirror - yeah, an unanswered question that needs answering.

    I thought the gods originally retreated to the mist, to their own realms and severed their connections to tyria (or maybe because of the dragons awakening, as their influence on Tyria was eaten by them). The time when Rytlock freed Balthazar was the time they (the gods) finally decided to leave their realms and go to a new world/place. I remember the The Seventh Reaper in the Cathedral of Silence story mission implied grenth was still "present" somehow in his realm (underworld) so I always assumed they were on their own realm and just now we learned they decisively left Tyria AND the mist sections they used to rule.

  • The Seventh Reaper doesn't really give an indication that Grenth is still in his realm - just that he has communication with it. We also got the indication that even in GW1, Grenth and Balthazar were not in their realms but somewhere else.

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  • Pax.3548Pax.3548 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2017

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    The Seventh Reaper doesn't really give an indication that Grenth is still in his realm - just that he has communication with it. We also got the indication that even in GW1, Grenth and Balthazar were not in their realms but somewhere else.

    Ah yes I do remember a bit about that, but then it looked to me they weren't there to avoid battling themselves (they did seem to like avoiding doing things themselves back then and even now) either because they wanted to avoid causing big collateral damage or avoid blinding their mortals helpers.

    Another thing to considerate regarding that story mission, why would grenth care to have his priest's soul returned to him if he really departed from his realm, leaving all Tyria behind? I really feel the gods were still on their realms at that time, soon to depart for good, and after mordy's death they finally took their leave, and at the same time balth was freed and took Lyssa's mirror (if the gods truly left beforehand I don't know how balth could have taken that mirror).

  • There were no mortals in the Underworld / Fissure of Woe, just ghosts. And as we see in The Sanctum, the gods' presence doesn't hinder the ghostly followers.

    As for Grenth being in his realm or not - Priestess Rhie states that the gods are not in the Mists, which would mean that people already went to the gods' realms and found them empty (given Joko could access the Domain of the Lost easily enough and take Balthazar with him, and how easily we got to The Sanctum, that's not unfathomable). Why would he care about his priest's soul? Because its the soul of one of his followers, and Grenth is all about justice and rightful placement in the afterlife.

    All these squares make a circle.
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    All these squares make a circle.

  • Pax.3548Pax.3548 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    There were no mortals in the Underworld / Fissure of Woe, just ghosts. And as we see in The Sanctum, the gods' presence doesn't hinder the ghostly followers.

    As for Grenth being in his realm or not - Priestess Rhie states that the gods are not in the Mists, which would mean that people already went to the gods' realms and found them empty (given Joko could access the Domain of the Lost easily enough and take Balthazar with him, and how easily we got to The Sanctum, that's not unfathomable). Why would he care about his priest's soul? Because its the soul of one of his followers, and Grenth is all about justice and rightful placement in the afterlife.

    I meant when we (the players) got there to help solve problems. But you make fine points, I'm just trying to find an explanation to kormir's words that the gods left around the time balth was making his move on tyria (or something like that).