How to defeat a Weaver?

Hey guys, I come here because lately while roaming in wvw I am encounting quite a bit of weavers roaming too.

I am not here to complain that they are OP or anything.

They are the most boring profession to fight, second only to druid.I explain why.

Today I fought this guy, Merciless Legend title, so probably good, probably Cellofrag build or some variant.I was just playing full zerk core warrior with bull's charge for fun.

The battle was 5 minute and I decided to leave because no point on continuing.Constantly landing all my CCs when he was without stab. And at some point I landed a full 3 seconds Bull's Charge knockdown followed by hundred blades, dropped him to 15-20% health.

He switched to water, used water2 (Riptide), then Twist of fate, spammed few autos he was 100% in about 2-3 seconds, and those evades cannot even be interrupted.

He dropped me just few above 50% but nothing too scary.

Every time I find a weaver with sword/dagger build it's the same story, even if I play perfectly with my CCs and damage skills, the go water2 and back to life.

How you can kill a weaver like this, this evade combo is on so low cooldown as well and it's "spammed".

He wasn't able to kill me either and I was playing all full zerk. At least Cellofrag seems to do great damage and kill people with it, or they are all completely noobs or those guys are playing a variant I dunno what to think. And same as druid they have perma protection seems, so my hits can't have the oneshot potential, but at least I dropped him to 15%.

Can some main Ele helps me?

I don't wanna offend anyone saying it's the most boring profession to fight, it's just how I feel when fighting them, the profession is complex and everything you want, but so boring to fight against imho.

In my opinion the only solution is to one shot him. A good elementalist can juggle with his lifebar pretty easily, but you have to know that if he can heal him that easily, he don't have enough damages to kill you, mostly if you're running a war. As an elementalist, I often play as a support healer. I'm really hard to kill and I can easily tank 2 or 3 people (except a huge burst obviously because the elem pool of HP is really low) but I can't kill anyone except if my opponent commit some huge mistakes.

His build is probably more balanced than mine, but still if he invests in heal, your only solution is to poison him to reduce the heals and to burst him when he's low HP.

But you know, it's a pain for us too to kill a war :)

You don't. You just ignore them completely because they can't touch you. Just ignore and /laugh until they leave because they realise they can't kill you either.

Only good part of this build is finding pipfarmers (ruins, camps on bl's are good places) that frequently recap every 5-10 minutes. Get them in combat, then follow them around. Don't kill them, make sure you can never die and don't let them cap anything for ~15 minutes. Their participation will be 0 and you have cleansed WvW.

@whoknocks.4935 said:(...) or they are all completely noobs or those guys are playing a variant I dunno what to think. (...)

Well, most fights in WvW are against complete noobs... :tongue:

Yeah, sound like he had some really defensive gear. Lots of celestial, marshal or so. Core warrior shouldn't be a big deal for weaver tbh, it is spellbreaker and FC that kicks ass. When he couldn't bring you below 50% and on the other hand healed up that much, just go away. It's like fighting any bunker at all, except he doesn't have much group support. And I do agree, that's boring.

In group fights, just ignore him. Kill everyone else and overwhelm him at the end. Be careful though, I know some weavers use more offensive gear. Makes them a lot less sustainy, but then they can dish out some good damage.

I do have one more suggestion though: Watch not only his stab, watch his attunements. Burst him when he just switched into fire or air. Or maybe after he used his riptide+vortex combo, it has ~10s CD. You might need two stuns then, though, once to force him into that combo and once for the kill.

If you'd use spellbreaker, btw., you would have an easy time. FC and the boon rips are really tough. Bait the stun breaks and the riptide combo with rampage. Then finish him.

In WvW roaming, I actually don't find weaver that bad. Not meta, but okayish.

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:(...) or they are all completely noobs or those guys are playing a variant I dunno what to think. (...)

But those guys are dueling people alone in duel spot xDOr I find them around the map roaming alone and they gank me first usually.

I can understand they wanna roam and never die to other roamers. But why gank me in the first place if you can't kill me? I mean the damage they pull out with the combo it's decent, but then I kite a bit and they are not able to finish me ever.

Anyway yeah, unless it's oneshot weaver probably I'll just ignore them and spam /laugh to them xD

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:(...) or they are all completely noobs or those guys are playing a variant I dunno what to think. (...)

They might be able to kill some other classes, but yeah, that is basically why everyone says ele sucks atm.^^ When having sustain, there is zero damage.

I actually run a lot more offensive gear, lots of grieving and zerker mixed in. This way I can get killed, but I can also kill. It's definitely more fun, I totally agree with you.

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:(...) or they are all completely noobs or those guys are playing a variant I dunno what to think. (...)

Yeah I found some very good weavers around who baited all my stunbreaks, then stunlocked me for like 5 seconds and destroyed me, but my damage on them was pretty high as well.

Again those sustain Cello wanna be weaver I land 3k with an Eviscerate crit... impossible to drop them down due to the constant water2 "spam".

Well, did you ever try to kill a minstrel firebrand? :tongue: Cellofrag also runs more offensive gear, I believe. Not as much as I usually do, but much less celestial which is the main source of toughness. Or, well, maybe he actually had some minstrel mixed in because he usually is a zerg healer...^^

other question:

how to defeat a warrior that allthough using zerker gear can easily sustain my damage and if getting low just pulls out with no chance for the ele to pursuit him?

Weav secret is Twist of Fate

Just force him to use his two TOF, and then CC and kill.

Even with their sustain, with enough pressure weaver are downable. Do not let them the time to recover.

I'll make this short: You hit them.

I run grieving armor and weapons, marshal, grieving and celestial trinkets, actually I have a strong burst with primordial stance. But against holo and SB I'm dead half the time; one hit and i'm half life, one cc and i'm dead if they're zerker, or long and painful fight if they are more tanky.More tankiness or more celestial and I barely kill AFK some times, okai you don't die but ... okai ...The +40% endurance regen is OP, on every class.

@shinta.8906 said:other question:

how to defeat a warrior that allthough using zerker gear can easily sustain my damage and if getting low just pulls out with no chance for the ele to pursuit him?

Warrior is so easy to defeat. I am not even a warrior main, so no need to attack warrior class to defende yours.I kill warriors pretty easily.Proc passive stab with unexpected CCs.Drop them to 50% and proc passive defy pain.Kite them for days.Burst them and make them use active endure pain.Kite them for days.Burst them again and as soon you see them running away follow them keeping pressure on them and dont allow to regen. Use your main combo burst of damage which you didn't waste if you are good enough and finish them.Those weaver I found just spam water2 and twist of fate off cooldown, and from what I saw those 2 skills having evade frames are impossible to interrupt, ao they will regen regardless.

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@shinta.8906 said:other question:

how to defeat a warrior that allthough using zerker gear can easily sustain my damage and if getting low just pulls out with no chance for the ele to pursuit him?

It depends on what you are playing, but it is true that in many cases warrior can be easier to kill. But you have to keep in mind that weavers who do this go with full defensive stats and defensive trait lines, because ele has no other choice. This build is sub-optimal, but the rest of the builds are even worse. Imagine if warrior used all of his stats and traits for defense. That would seriously be the stuff of nightmares. But no warrior ever does this. Why would a warrior do this when they can retain some pretty good defense while having amazing burst? This annoying weaver build is nothing but the last resort that a trash class is forced to take.

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@shinta.8906 said:other question:

how to defeat a warrior that allthough using zerker gear can easily sustain my damage and if getting low just pulls out with no chance for the ele to pursuit him?

read carefully

sd weaver has no burst potential. ppl talking about that since the pof betas.

sd has some kite potential, yes. but even that is on the lower end.

the playstyle you talk about describes scepter freshair which was nerfed twice in a rough without compensation.

for your question. yes you can interrupt twist of fate (even with stab traited) and riptide. several skills in the game can do it.

@shinta.8906 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@shinta.8906 said:other question:

how to defeat a warrior that allthough using zerker gear can easily sustain my damage and if getting low just pulls out with no chance for the ele to pursuit him?

Man I think you are the one who did not understand my thread sorry.

I wasn't complaining of Weaver impossible to defeat, omg, broken spec, yad yada yada.

I was saying: why people solo roam which such a build like that? That even with my core warrior I can't drop down? I drop them to 15%, they water2 plus twist of fate, back to 100%.And they GANK me in the first place around the map, they make the first move, and they don't drop me under 50%.

It's a boring fight who last even 5 minutes with no winner.

And saying warrior run zerk and have defense and burst shows how you did not understand anything of the topic.Instead of warrior I could say Power Shiro revenant, still probably is not able to drop down a weaver like that.

So why they play it and gank people with it? Usually ganking builds have good damage combos and as well defenses to survive a counter attack in any 1vs1, but that build is just meh, a druid 2.0.

its a druid 0.5 if anything.

idk i stoped wvw cause ppl run defensive builds near their own fully buffed objectives to bail into if things go south. thats probably what happens to you.

try magebane tether if you see them using twist of fate or riptide without stab. as it is kinda like spear of justice in its unblockable pull ability it should work too. stab on twist of fate applys after their evade frame so you can pull inbetween it.

why is it possible to interrupt evade frames? anet logic

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@shinta.8906 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@shinta.8906 said:other question:

how to defeat a warrior that allthough using zerker gear can easily sustain my damage and if getting low just pulls out with no chance for the ele to pursuit him?

Out side of FA build that how you defeat a weaver you simply become to tankly to die to one its not that hard as bleed and burns alone are not enofe condi dmg to deal with healing and any type boon you put on your self is effectually a hard counter to the ele class as it has NO means of dealing with boons at all. Its funnly resistance stops all condis and soft cc ele can do and there is nothing an ele can do about it. Why ele has condi dmg and soft cc is beyond me at this point. You could even say protection on your self makes you have a free - 33% dmg up on them as the weaver or ele or tempest cant do any thing about it. If you die to a non FA ele that more on you then the ele as there soo much free effects you get that you cant use vs all of the other classes in the game with out any real fear.

If a core warrior or SB is fighting a Weaver Sword and dagger in a radius the size as a guard point radius the fight will go quick. Mostly in the weaver's favor. I can shut down or make most warriors flee with in 30 seconds of the fight. However, if he choose to perma dodge and avoid direct combat by perma kiting it will last longer. Counter warriors with Sigil of doom is a must. VSing Holo rifle build or certain condi hybrid Mirage spamming builds are weavers counter since sword Weaver damage are small packet damage over time mix with light condi. Our sowrd range is 130 and if someone truly wants to kite or play keep away they can. Most damage moves on warriors are fire 2 which is slow and telegraphs and earth 3 core burst. Forcing a warrior to stay on point is the only way to beat them. Anyone can out run a sword weaver. Yes I win 97% fight vs warrior if on guard point or in ruin they end under 1-2 mins. Unless he swaps to GS and flees to regen and comes back after 10-15 seconds.

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@shinta.8906 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@shinta.8906 said:other question:

how to defeat a warrior that allthough using zerker gear can easily sustain my damage and if getting low just pulls out with no chance for the ele to pursuit him?

Maybe they run it because they like to play weaver and want to roam? It is one of the more viable roamingbuilds for us sad as that is.

Having said that I win almost all fights vs warriors over sentry points. They either die cause restricted space or I cap the point cause they spend half their time outside it.

I would hardly call weaver PvP viable, but we are going though tempest bunker kinda all over again. Fighting weaver takes ages. What keeps them out of viability, is that power burst is too high, if you can lock them down you can 1 shoot them better than you can 1 shoot similar bruiser builds.

I dunno why the only semi viable builds ele ever maintain in PvP are always bunker/semi bunker builds.

@otto.5684 said:I would hardly call weaver PvP viable, but we are going though tempest bunker kinda all over again. Fighting weaver takes ages. What keeps them out of viability, is that power burst is too high, if you can lock them down you can 1 shoot them better than you can 1 shoot similar bruiser builds.

I dunno why the only semi viable builds ele ever maintain in PvP are always bunker/semi bunker builds.

Because elementalist is an awful design, it has been so from the start but....it's easy to please the masses so instead than reworking the whole thing they decided to feed these bunker delusions...factually speaking the class has been using a healing power amulet since launch : ( old valkyrie amulet- cleric/settler -celestial and now mender )

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@otto.5684 said:I would hardly call weaver PvP viable, but we are going though tempest bunker kinda all over again. Fighting weaver takes ages. What keeps them out of viability, is that power burst is too high, if you can lock them down you can 1 shoot them better than you can 1 shoot similar bruiser builds.

I dunno why the only semi viable builds ele ever maintain in PvP are always bunker/semi bunker builds.

Moreover Water and/or Arcana have been mantarory since forever. So much diversity.

well, it could be worst, weaver doesnt have stealth spamming.

@"whoknocks.4935" said:Hey guys, I come here because lately while roaming in wvw I am encounting quite a bit of weavers roaming too.

I am not here to complain that they are OP or anything.

They are the most boring profession to fight, second only to druid.I explain why.

Today I fought this guy, Merciless Legend title, so probably good, probably Cellofrag build or some variant.I was just playing full zerk core warrior with bull's charge for fun.

The battle was 5 minute and I decided to leave because no point on continuing.Constantly landing all my CCs when he was without stab. And at some point I landed a full 3 seconds Bull's Charge knockdown followed by hundred blades, dropped him to 15-20% health.

He switched to water, used water2 (Riptide), then Twist of fate, spammed few autos he was 100% in about 2-3 seconds, and those evades cannot even be interrupted.

He dropped me just few above 50% but nothing too scary.

Every time I find a weaver with sword/dagger build it's the same story, even if I play perfectly with my CCs and damage skills, the go water2 and back to life.

How you can kill a weaver like this, this evade combo is on so low cooldown as well and it's "spammed".

He wasn't able to kill me either and I was playing all full zerk. At least Cellofrag seems to do great damage and kill people with it, or they are all completely noobs or those guys are playing a variant I dunno what to think. And same as druid they have perma protection seems, so my hits can't have the oneshot potential, but at least I dropped him to 15%.

Can some main Ele helps me?

I don't wanna offend anyone saying it's the most boring profession to fight, it's just how I feel when fighting them, the profession is complex and everything you want, but so boring to fight against imho.

It's like fighting a full minstrel staff druid but th difference is they can buff the pet to do sick dmg while they remain untouchable for you