2v2 Annihilation mode

Hello, remaining GW2 PvP community,

Solo/Duo Queuing into 5v5 conquest is the main attraction for pick-up PvP games in GW2.

Lately in NA I've felt the lack of a populated Plat community, the norm is now to pull in players on both sides without good builds and understanding of conquest.

Now more than ever, I've been thinking about previous suggestions to introduce a smaller size game mode to PvP. Why? Say for example there's few platinum players queuing right now: with conquest, the matchmaker will pull a lot more lower tier players. With a 2v2 mode, even if only a few plat players are queued up, the matchmaker is not going to pull gold and silver level teams in.

A small-team game mode would have skyrocketed match quality at this time.

How it would fit in the current system:

• Enter the unranked and ranked queue checkbox
• Effort put in to make it a competitive game mode
• Annihilation AT tournaments that happen multiple times a day, in between conquest ATs. This will increase content available for players who want to do more ATs of all types.

What is 2v2 Annihilation?

• With duo queue for all returning, this game mode obviously is intended for the two on each side to be pre-made and coordinated. This will cater to those who want the team queue experience as well, due to no random teammates.
• Each Annihilation game features no respawns, last side standing wins, best of three rounds.
• The upcoming 2v2 map would serve as the first Annihilation map.

How to make the game mode competitive:

• Stealth openers balanced by placing a pulsating vision crystal in the middle of the map. Any player to walk into this crystal will pulse reveal every second on all players for 10s, effectively leaving the initial stealth open strategy countered unless they open in that immediate window, which can be reasonably prepared for.
• Stacking debuff on everyone appearing starting 3:00 into each round, periodically increasing all damage taken, and reduced healing received.

More about the Annihilation mode to be added later..

I think this is the best thing that GW2 could do in the next PvP development stage. The shrinking PvP population makes Solo/Duo in conquest more about who sets their build up to farm the most players who are vastly less experienced. I don't think conquest should die, but I foresee more serious, competitive minded players more likely to queue Annihilation when there are no ATs available.

GW2 community, let me know your thoughts

I mean - any content would be cool and nice for a change. I am sure I'd try this too.

But this mode would change a lot. Some things would improve, but a lot of things would become completely irrelevant and simplified. Not map awareness anymore, no mobility classes, no +1s... I do believe after a short while a lot of builds or even classes would become completely obsolete, because the balance is so completely different from conquest.

So, as long as this is just a mode for fun, I am totally in. But they should focus on making one mode competitive and optimise balance for that one mode - and I think conquest is the better choice here.

@Chaith.8256 said:GW2 community, let me know your thoughts

A 2v2 team deathmatch mode sounds like a nice idea for duo queuing. I wouldn't recommend focusing too much on debuffs like the one you proposed with increased damage taken and reduced healing received. Instead focus on level design. To balance out maps for 2v2, they shouldn't be as large as the 5v5 maps and not too open similar to maps like Eternal Coliseum as this would make ranged professions like the ranger hard counter the thief.

The only other recommendation I would add to this game mode is that since you mentioned no respawns, I was wondering what do you think about having no downed state? Some would say that this would boil down to bursting the enemy as fast as possible, but it's still interesting when you think about it.

you know there is alredy such a mapbut only for private arenas

@Megametzler.5729 said:I mean - any content would be cool and nice for a change. I am sure I'd try this too.

But this mode would change a lot. Some things would improve, but a lot of things would become completely irrelevant and simplified. Not map awareness anymore, no mobility classes, no +1s... I do believe after a short while a lot of builds or even classes would become completely obsolete, because the balance is so completely different from conquest.

So, as long as this is just a mode for fun, I am totally in. But they should focus on making one mode competitive and optimise balance for that one mode - and I think conquest is the better choice here.

Throughout GW2 History, we've had some pretty good & build diverse 2v2 tourneys even while balancing for 5v5. Every profession has pretty flexible build options to sacrifice out-of-combat mobility in favor of increased fighting strength. I don't think balance would likely need to change drastically, but a little consideration would be nice. Conquest has a 1v1 and 2v2 meta as well that has to be kept in mind as well, so the balancing goals aren't completely mismatched between 2v2 and 5v5.

@Hoodie.1045 said:A 2v2 team deathmatch mode sounds like a nice idea for duo queuing. I wouldn't recommend focusing too much on debuffs like the one you proposed with increased damage taken and reduced healing received. Instead focus on level design. To balance out maps for 2v2, they shouldn't be as large as the 5v5 maps and not too open similar to maps like Eternal Coliseum as this would make ranged professions like the ranger hard counter the thief.

The only other recommendation I would add to this game mode is that since you mentioned no respawns, I was wondering what do you think about having no downed state? Some would say that this would boil down to bursting the enemy as fast as possible, but it's still interesting when you think about it.

Level design can't fully stop stall-tactics and just endlessly running away. Each round should be no longer than 5 minutes, starting a creeping damage taken/healing taken debuff at the 3 minute mark I still think will be essential to curb stall tactics and enforce the proper pacing of matches.

@Namless.4028 said:you know there is alredy such a mapbut only for private arenas

Courtyard, yeah. That was technically a 5v5 deathmatch map. It may differ from the 2v2 map to come, so I did not mention it. Also, it was not annihilation, it was deathmatch. There's a huge difference, 5v5 Deathmatch is just points given per kill, and constant respawns. Annihilation is the arena combat that's become known in MMOs.

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Namless.4028 said:you know there is alredy such a mapbut only for private arenas

There's actually a 2v2 map out already with a first to five score system in place.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"Namless.4028" said:you know there is alredy such a mapbut only for private arenas

Everytime people mention "2v2" mode I have to laugh at how lazy it seems. Buy a server and make 2v2 room. You guys can organize in-house scrims but can't put together a 2v2?

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Namless.4028 said:you know there is alredy such a mapbut only for private arenas

He talks about 2v2 arena which is out of map rotation in Qs and available only for custom arenas. It is real 2v2 deathmatch for 3 or 5 wins.

i like this idea, it'll be something different and new to the game overall. I'll back this up if it was added to the game.

This seems like it would be fun. Mesmers would totally dominate, as usual, but it would be something different to do besides conquest at least.

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Namless.4028 said:you know there is alredy such a mapbut only for private arenas

Oh nice, was not aware of that, a couple mentioned it, but I assumed it was good old Courtyard. That would be a potential Annihilation map right there, then

@"Chaith.8256" said:Hello, remaining GW2 PvP community,

Solo/Duo Queuing into 5v5 conquest is the main attraction for pick-up PvP games in GW2.

Lately in NA I've felt the lack of a populated Plat community, the norm is now to pull in players on both sides without good builds and understanding of conquest.

Now more than ever, I've been thinking about previous suggestions to introduce a smaller size game mode to PvP. Why? Say for example there's few platinum players queuing right now: with conquest, the matchmaker will pull a lot more lower tier players. With a 2v2 mode, even if only a few plat players are queued up, the matchmaker is not going to pull gold and silver level teams in.

A small-team game mode would have skyrocketed match quality at this time.

How it would fit in the current system:

• Enter the unranked and ranked queue checkbox
• Effort put in to make it a competitive game mode
• Annihilation AT tournaments that happen multiple times a day, in between conquest ATs. This will increase content available for players who want to do more ATs of all types.

What is 2v2 Annihilation?

• With duo queue for all returning, this game mode obviously is intended for the two on each side to be pre-made and coordinated. This will cater to those who want the team queue experience as well, due to no random teammates.
• Each Annihilation game features no respawns, last side standing wins, best of three rounds.
• The upcoming 2v2 map would serve as the first Annihilation map.

How to make the game mode competitive:

• Stealth openers balanced by placing a pulsating vision crystal in the middle of the map. Any player to walk into this crystal will pulse reveal every second on all players for 10s, effectively leaving the initial stealth open strategy countered unless they open in that immediate window, which can be reasonably prepared for.
• Stacking debuff on everyone appearing starting 3:00 into each round, periodically increasing all damage taken, and reduced healing received.

More about the Annihilation mode to be added later..

I think this is the best thing that GW2 could do in the next PvP development stage. The shrinking PvP population makes Solo/Duo in conquest more about who sets their build up to farm the most players who are vastly less experienced. I don't think conquest should die, but I foresee more serious, competitive minded players more likely to queue Annihilation when there are no ATs available.

GW2 community, let me know your thoughts

Chaith — THANK YOU for suggesting something that would really help the community.

If they thought it was too much work to execute your suggestion, I honestly think they could just re-work and shrink a map to have one "circle" on it, allowing it to be sort of like a team death-match, with the first team to 200 points to win. Kills are worth 10 points, but the circlequest mechanic still exists, since it appears to be Anet's favorite.

To folks who think this would split the PvP community? I say no, this would bring players back, give them things to do, expand build variety, and so on.

At this point I'll take anything that's not a rehashed/updated Stronghold and Conquest. What is kind of alarming is that someone from ANet said they're planning on updating Stronghold which doesn't need it. They need to sunset that failure and move onto items that the players really want.

Nerf stronghold its op

The 2v2 tournies WAY back in the old days were some of the most fun I ever had in this game (I still remember me/Quilja vs Caed/zoose was epic the one week). I would absolutely be on board with 2v2 coming back, but they would need to set restrictions on amulet choices and maybe class stacking to prevent cheese double mender comps and such.

I would come back to play 2v2 pvp, it would be great fun to play a game that was serious and involved the reliability of myself and a friend. I was no amazing player , slightly above average i would say, but the complete destruction of playing with your friends in PvP caused my friends and myself to quit this game mode. (I'm sorry but when you go un-ranked you just have to put up with so much bull that its not worth it).

So I hope they are considering doing something that allows 2 v 2 or even better yet 3v3. So that people can hang out with friends again and work together for coordinated fights.

I truly believe that not playing with your friends and just solo-queue has encouraged, trolling, spamming, non-competitive behavior. Everyone who played this game mode for fun but serious play is starting to walk away because of the simple fact that most of us don't want to play an MMORPG alone.

Could be fun.

Some guildmates have done 2v2v2 fights in our guild hall, and that's always a lot of fun. I'd be down for something similar in pvp. 2v2v2 elimination would make for interesting but fast games. You could use basically any map including parts of pve maps as long as there's enough space.

@coro.3176 said:Could be fun.

Some guildmates have done 2v2v2 fights in our guild hall, and that's always a lot of fun. I'd be down for something similar in pvp. 2v2v2 elimination would make for interesting but fast games. You could use basically any map including parts of pve maps as long as there's enough space.

2v2v2? Like, a three way battle? Sounds pretty chaotic and RNG of who gets focused first by 4 players

@Chaith.8256 said:

@coro.3176 said:Could be fun.

Some guildmates have done 2v2v2 fights in our guild hall, and that's always a lot of fun. I'd be down for something similar in pvp. 2v2v2 elimination would make for interesting but fast games. You could use basically any map including parts of pve maps as long as there's enough space.

Yeah. I think it might be healthier for the player base than a straight 2v2 though. I imagine many players will lose a few games of 2v2 in a row and then not queue it again. With 2v2v2, there's a bit more chaos and rng, like you said.

Plus, you don't immediately lose the moment your first player dies. The second player remaining player can strategically try and 1v2v2 the other teams and steal a win by making sure the other players all die at the same time. It's a bit more exciting IMO, though it would be slower than a 2v2.

Just curious, how are you going to resolve stealth classes with the first 10s? Obviously people can wait it out or attack beforehand, but 10s is still a pretty long handicap.

i feel like any 2v2 mode would just be dominated by FB + rev/holo

I think you have to discourage bunker play and address the reality of overturned bruiser builds as well in this game mode. My assumption in this regard is that tie breakers are given to the team that dealt the most total damage to players (excluding pets, clones, etc). There should also be a hard cap on each round, which should probably be around 3-4 minutes.

If a team simply focuses too much on sustain, which defeats the purpose of an annihilation mode, they ultimately will lose the match.

The only thing missing is the codex rules about skillshttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Codex_Arena

@Chaith.8256 said:

@coro.3176 said:Could be fun.

Some guildmates have done 2v2v2 fights in our guild hall, and that's always a lot of fun. I'd be down for something similar in pvp. 2v2v2 elimination would make for interesting but fast games. You could use basically any map including parts of pve maps as long as there's enough space.

sounds like a lot of fun... I love your OP suggestion and I wish to make my own...

how about whats left of the community come together under a guild with an arena and we can organise our own XvXvX game modes in house all day everyday?

I would love to be apart of something like that because youre essentially creating new PvP game modes that anet clearly wont give us.

maybe its time for community action is what im geting at here, try and rebuild the PvP comminuty.