So what would a thief support spec look like?

I haven't given the idea much thought but I will in the coming days and add my ideas to this post.What do you guys think?

For the spec I'm thinking about some offhand weapon.Traits - some boon application, boon protection from rips (idea from @Safandula.8723), heal allies on boon steal, maybe stealth heals allies on application and gets some strong boons etc.

if stealth wouldnt be broken with reveal but instead people/mobs would gain an effect to see stealthed opponents when attacked by 'em or when using a skill to get the effect . then we could make SA traits apply to all instances of stealth applied by the thief and change meld in shadows to share some of the stealth with allies. there you go damage reduction, condi cleanse possibly heal / crit immunity and being stealthed. this could ofc be increases with some elite spec around support.

but just adding 1 support elite spec without any core line changed to support wouldnt work that well i guess.

The best way to add support to thief would be though special debuffs, deadeye's mark is a huge missed opportunity in this regard. Imagine party members gaining certain benifits based on the amound of the deadeye's malice while fighting the markted target (doing more damage, taking less damage, HP gain on hit for their attacks, you name it).

Original Deadeye could be a decent support spec.

@Tails.9372 said:The best way to add support to thief would be though special debuffs, deadeye's mark is a huge missed opportunity in this regard. Imagine party members gaining certain benifits based on the amound of the deadeye's malice while fighting the markted target (doing more damage, taking less damage, HP gain on hit for their attacks, you name it).

Definitely this. Allowing the Deadeye to mark a target so that other players attacking it gains bonuses against it honestly seems like a huge missed opportunity.

Actually, now that you brought it up, it seems like such an obvious thing that I’m actually surprised they didn’t dedicate one or two traits in the Deadeye line for it, honestly... :confounded:

It would be a bard. Give him access to a focus (think harp) where his skills revolve around buffing and debuffing using battle songs.

I would probably first start with the base mechanic of the e-spec. The Daredevil gave an extra dodge bar. The Deadeye switched out Steal with Deadeye's Mark and Malice. So it seems that either re-doing Steal again or tinkering with the Initiative system would be potential points of exploration for a support thief.

You could probably play with the whole "master of shadows" motif of thieves and have a support class that draws too deeply on the shadows and becomes what we may as well just call a "Ghost." So maybe the thief becomes more Necromancer-like, gaining Spectral skills that draw on the shades of the Underworld. Or maybe they gain Ranger Spirits but as creatures of Shadow. Or maybe the ethereal nature of the support class would warrant the Mesmer's Glamour skills.

Support thief exists but people don’t play it.

Thief has the best long term stealth abilities. In a group fight a stealth oriented Deadeye can provide AoE might, AoE stealth and crowd control from range while providing support DPS.

Just because people play it for the big gank numbers doesn’t mean it can’t play other roles that contribute differently in group pvp.

For example FF14 Rogue/Ninja has a backstab mechanic with 60sec CD that boosts all party members dmg for 10 seconds to the target inflicted with it. In that game the said class isn't the best dps at all, but rather the king of party utility. Maybe specialisation like that could work in GW2 also.

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Tails.9372 said:The best way to add support to thief would be though special debuffs, deadeye's mark is a huge missed opportunity in this regard. Imagine party members gaining certain benifits based on the amound of the deadeye's malice while fighting the markted target (doing more damage, taking less damage, HP gain on hit for their attacks, you name it).

It would be somewhat like the Officer in Starwars Galaxies. I think the general idea was mentioned briefly in one of the first big DE threads and there was some talk about how out of hand that could get unless you separate modifiers over game modes.

I'd be happy being able to Mark and light up a friendly to actively, not passively, buff up as long as I get assist xp and drops.

@Oglaf.1074 said:I’m actually surprised they didn’t dedicate one or two traits in the Deadeye line for itThe minor grandmaster would have been the perfect choice here, instead of a flat 10% bonus vs. the marked target it could have been something like: the maked target receves 1% more damage / has its damage output reduced by 1% / hitting the marked target recovers X amount of HP for every stack of malice.

@kash.9213 said:there was some talk about how out of hand that could getI don't see how it could get out of hand, if it's a debuff then just don't make it stack past 7 malice. /done

SA Deadeye with boon share

It'd be what I originally proposed for Deadeye lol; damage -> healing conversion for allies, area denial, and lots of interrupts.

Condi Thief has a lot of boon share, boon strip, venom share, group heals, etc as a support while doing a lot of damage applying conditions.

I See a theof in zerg meta in New expansion. Look at this boys. A class based on boon steal, boon prptection and boon rip. Every zerg would need you to steal enemy protection, stab and resists. In addition we could get some ability to mass stealth like veil. I rly think thief is viable as support. I See it coming with some torch or focus

@Safandula.8723 said:boon protection

do you mean a buff where allies cant lose boons? that's a really good idea.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Safandula.8723" said:boon protection

Zeep: See what happened was Boon share meta got out of control. So we dedicated an entire expansion to adding Especs that rip boons left and right, but we made them all limited range. So players started going back to the Pirate ship meta. But we couldn't have that, so we nerfed all the skills that were working at range, so they'd all have to get in close. And now rather then spamming boons, we just have Firebrands and Scourges spamming healing and barrier on everything. But thats not our end game!!! Next expansion we're gonna narc this meta by giving Thief the ability to block boon rips, so it'll be added to every comp as well. Its Fun AND profitable!

Rick: I don't know man. What you're doing is unethical.

Zeep: No, no. See, we're giving other classes something important to do, so boons don't get out of control. Its called Build Diversity.

Rick: Its just Boon Share meta, but with extra steps.

I Just want to not be kicked out of zerg while playing thief ;'''(Seripusly i think all classes (thief engi ranger) should have possibility to play in zerg/blob. IMO the Best way to make use of thief is to give some boon manipulation (we are fking thiefs and Best we can steal is 1800 hp and 3 boons - kina meh for BIG fights).I think boon protection could be interesting but it needs a lot of testing. For example if thief could give 2 sec of boon protection and he would cast it in good moment it would completly deny scourges and would make zerg fights much more interesting.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:boon protection

That would be a Guardian, not a Thief. A thief doesn't protect.

@Safandula.8723 said:I Just want to not be kicked out of zerg while playing thief ;'''(Seripusly i think all classes (thief engi ranger) should have possibility to play in zerg/blob. IMO the Best way to make use of thief is to give some boon manipulation (we are kitten thiefs and Best we can steal is 1800 hp and 3 boons - kina meh for BIG fights).I think boon protection could be interesting but it needs a lot of testing. For example if thief could give 2 sec of boon protection and he would cast it in good moment it would completly deny scourges and would make zerg fights much more interesting.

Thief is actually extremely important in zergs just the fact no one thinks they play a vital role. We are talking a class that's able to burst said specific target down regardless if your running DE or not you can still put quite a bit of burst down on support eles and so forth and if you're skilled enough at pick killing the commander out of the zerg. Alongside the fact that you put thieves at the back of the zerg to protect the backline if someone jumps onto your backline and you have say, 5 thieves, they won't last very long. Shadow art thieves also can add regen to other targets depending on what they are running and they can revive them really fast. Thief still has a place but to why your getting kicked out so much is beyond me.

Even of you have 10 thiefs to protect your backline, spellbreakers Will live at least 10 sec. Never seem someone that put thiefs on backline to protect any1. Did you ever jump into a blob with Staff dd with 60 ping?

Honestly, a cool niche could be a dual sword spec with a sub-focus on Tanking via Evading, and granting boons to allies each time you Evade when using specific Stances.

Blade Dancer A "sustained DPS Spec if you Evade well and never miss a beat, or an Evasion Tank that functions like a Chrono, generating a ton of useful boons for your allies, including both Alacrity and Quickness."

I design something like this before, and it had a unique system of using a Main Hand skill, Offhand skill, and then a Dual Skill to finish a chain.

Chains could be Offensive (Mainhand > Off hand > Dual Skill) or Defensive (Offhand > Mainhand > Dual).

When used as the first step (Opener) abilities on each weapon would gain a different effect, similarly the second attack (Bridge) would also have a unique effect, and finally the Dual Skill (Finisher) would differ based on the type of combo used.

The other mechanic was an idea called Momentum which replaces your Endurance bar: a "heat gauge" that would fill above your health bar, which would provide increased effects if maintained, and would be reduced by being struck by abilities. Basically, don't get hit, you recover Initiative faster passively and get a damage bonus. Get hit, lose those bonuses and take a while to recovery. Instead of a dodge, you would have a unique Evasion in place skill similar to mirage, but this helps recover Momentum if you lose it recently and use the dodge ability within a second or so after being hit, which consumes Endurance to return some of the lost Momentum.

The new Abilities would be Stances. For the Blade Dancer, these special stances work differently from other Stances in that you can only have one active at a time. Since they are exclusive, they are extremely potent and provide strong bonuses for you and nearby allies when you Evade an attack (600 radius). The neat trick, however, is that using another Stance to cancel an existing stance causes a burst effect upon leaving the stance, so you are rewarded for "dancing" between the stances, but also want to hold out to get as much of a benefit as you can with your current stance. They would have a passive that reduced the recharges of all Stances when they change to a new Stance.

The ideas were things like granting Quickness, Alacrity, Might, Protection, Resistance etc through the Evasion buffs from the Stances.

A neat aspect of the Dual Sword/Sword skill I thought up, called Blade Dance, is that it would have two distinct functions. If used while remaining stationary, it would deal significant damage while channeled. Alternatively, while channeling, you could move while using the ability to transition it into a slower, wider area attack that causes you to Evade while maintained. If this ability is used as an Offensive Chain Finisher, the attack animations becomes increasingly faster until it reached a cap. If used as a Defensive Chain Finisher, this ability would cost less Initiative per second to maintain and life steal slightly, allowing the Defensive variation of the build to work up to a long phase of Evasion frames.

If replacing a Chronomancer as a boon-tank, the play-style would be to Evade absolutely as much as possible to maintain high Momentum to constantly keep the Initiative flowing in and let you continue to Blade Dance as much as you can while moving slightly about to keep the "Evasive" version of the ability going as needed to Evade, all while generating ally boons each time you successfully Evade.

Here is a copy from my reddit comment a while back describing the stances:

All stances have an instant activation time, 10 second base duration, and 30 second base Recharge time. One of the Minor traits of the Blade Dancer changes how Alacrity works when received while using the spec: Instead of speeding up recharge recovery time, it applies additional Initiative regeneration. This means the Stance duration, and other base Thief abilities, would not be impacted by Alacrity.

Heal - River Flows In You - While active, heal and remove 1 damaging Condition from yourself and nearby allies each time you Evade. Canceling this stance by using another Stance heals self and nearby allies for a burst of healing and removes 2 damaging conditions.

Utility - Reed In the Wind - While active, gain Evasion (1s) initially and every 3 seconds after for 10 seconds, and gain Quickness (3s) to yourself and nearby allies on each Evade. Canceling this stance by using another Stance applies a burst of quickness to nearby allies and self (5s) and applies Evade to self and allies (1s). (yes, you CAN DODGE for your allies!)

Utility - Tireless Tempo - While active, remove a offensive impairing condition (Weakness, Blind, Chill, and Slow) on yourself and allies each time you Evade, grant 10 Endurance per second to self and nearby allies, and grant Alacrity (3s) to yourself and nearby allies on each Evade. Canceling this stance by using another Stance applies a burst of Alacrity to nearby allies and self (5s), returns 20 Endurance to allies and self, and removes 2 offensive impairing conditions.

Utility - Unrestrained Form - While active, remove an action inhibiting conditions (Immobilize, Cripple), then break stun and apply Stability (3s) on yourself and allies each time you Evade. Canceling this stance by using another Stance applies a stun break, removes two inhibiting conditions, and applies Stability (3x 5s) to self and allies.

Utility - Bolero of the Bold - While active, gain 4 x Might (20s) and Fury (5s) on yourself and allies each time you Evade, and your attacks become Unblockable. Canceling this stance by using another Stance applies burst of 8 x Might (20s) and Fury (10s) and applies Unblockable (2s) to self and allies. 

Elite - Rhythmic Reversal - While active, gain Resistance (3s) and Aegis (3s) on yourself and allies each time you Evade, and your attacks transfer conditions and steal boons on each hit after Evading for 2 seconds. Canceling this stance by using another Stance applies burst of Resistance (6s) and applies Aegis once every second for 3 to you and surrounding allies. For 3 seconds, you and surrounding allies transfer conditions and steal boons on each hit.

@Swiftwynd.1685 said:snips

sounds pretty cool. seems a little like soulbeast.

The Chief Bandit

Class Role:Tank and support through self-administered ally healing.

Weapon:Hammer.

Profession Mechanic:Chief Bandit Presence: You become revealed instead of gaining stealth. When you are revealed gain flip-over skills.(All abilities that work while stealth, now work while revealed).

Minor Traits:Chief Bandit Presence: You become revealed instead of gaining stealth. When you are revealed gain flip-over skills. Gain alacrity when revealed. Alacrity also affects your traits.Quick tongue: Gain quickness when you Shout while revealed. Shouts have increased range.Bandit’s Endurance: Gain 1 stack of Bandit’s Endurance every 3 seconds after you been hit. Max stack: 5Bandit’s Endurance: +70 toughness.

Adept:1. Leader not Boss: Copy all your boons to 3 random allies within the threshold.CD: Pulse every 10 secs.2. Clear Orders: Allies heal for a set amount when they abandon the threshold. 400 units. CD: 10secs per ally.3. The Best Defense: Become revealed when your initiative is below 5. If you have revitalization when this occurs, consume the boon for it's total healing.

Master:1. Fierce Leader:Gain: 1/2 sec of protection for each ally within 300 units. (Up to 5).1/2 sec of retaliation for every foe within 300 units. (up to 5).CD:15 secs.2. Bringer of Havoc: Allies within the threshold heal for 15% of their critical hits. Exactly in between 400-500 units. Max: 5.3. Advanced Bandit’s Defense:Gain a block when your endurance is below 30. If you block something, gain back some endurance.

Grandmaster:1. Render to Caesar: Copy all boons of a random ally within the threshold to yourself.CD: 15 secs.2. Blood of a Martyr: Allies around you heal for 50% of the damage you receive. Exactly in between 300 to 400 units. Max count: 5, CD: 8secs.3. Bandit’s Reprisal: Gain retaliation if you have the max stack of Bandit’s Endurance.

Weapon skills:1. Melee-Aoe attack chain. 3rd one steals a boon from one target.2. Headblow: Swing your hammer in an arc, inflicting vulnerability and interrupting skills.3. Hammer Spin: Spin in place along with your hammer, destroying projectiles and damaging foes.4. Battlefield Presence: Stow your hammer for 3 seconds, becoming unable to attack. Become revealed and gain distortion. Downed allies in an area gain 1sec of stealth.5. Disrupting Hammer: Strike your hammer with force in front of you, knocking back enemies. Blast combo.

Utilities:6. Never surrender!: Heal for x. The healing skill cooldown of nearby allies is reduced by x%.Flip-over: Heal for less. This skill CD is halved.7. Pillage!: The next two critical hits of you and your allies heals for 100% of damage. Ammunition: 3. CD: 40secs.Flip-over: Self-heal for every ally affected.8. Arm yourselves!: Grant two explosive kits to up to 5 allies. Their next two attacks deal more damage and burn.Flip-over: When an ally does any combo, they also do a blast finisher.9. Together we stand!: You and up to 5 people heal x for every ally around you. Also gain some protection for every foe in the threshold. Breaks stun.Flip-over: Allies around you breaks stun.10. Ambush: You and allies around you gain stealth. Their next attack copies two boons from the target.Flip-over: Lose a condition for every boon copied.Elite- Assault!: Allies affected by this shout cannot have their boons stripped or corrupted. Boons already on them last 50% more. Duration: 5 secs.Flip-over: Lose all damaging conditions.CD: 40secs.

All 1, boonshare.All 2, healing.all 3, tank.