I'm sorry for Trahearne (SPOILERS) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

I'm sorry for Trahearne (SPOILERS)

Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
edited August 13, 2018 in Lore

I remember me and my friends making fun of him, generally making fun of everything in the story from lvl 1-80, especially the fight against zhaitan was just too goofy and cheesy for us.

But now, with the game developing and getting better (imo) looking back Trahearne's death feels kind of bad. Almost like the community killed him, instead of Mordremoth.
The same goes with Scarlett of course, however, I personally feel Scarlett died a good death.
Trahearne totally got mutilated. That guy was a firstborn, he belonged to a rare line, and probably was destined for big things. He's big thing however was to get entangled by Mordremoth, consumed and then being forced to sacrifice himself to end the Jungle Dragon.

Poor guy.

<13

Comments

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

    That's how things go. There's a hierarchy everwhere, even in your daily life. Until you're the big boss noone will give you credit's for anything. I have no issue with that, I never cared about it. I mean it's just a game and what the NPCs "think" doesn't matter to me.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

    That's how things go. There's a hierarchy everwhere, even in your daily life. Until you're the big boss noone will give you credit's for anything. I have no issue with that, I never cared about it. I mean it's just a game and what the NPCs "think" doesn't matter to me.

    Wat. That’s entirely irrelevant to what I’m talking about.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2018

    @Moonyeti.3296 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

    That's how things go. There's a hierarchy everwhere, even in your daily life. Until you're the big boss noone will give you credit's for anything. I have no issue with that, I never cared about it. I mean it's just a game and what the NPCs "think" doesn't matter to me.

    Wat. That’s entirely irrelevant to what I’m talking about.

    Why is it irrelevant? You said you didn't like that Trehearne stole the limelight from you. Clyan pointed out that he is your boss, bosses usually get the credit. That is completely on topic and relevant to what you were saying. You just don't agree with it.

    No it is irrelevant because I’ve no issues with “a boss” character and have said nothing of the sort. See for example the Pact Mentor characters (Forgal, Tybalt and the third one) - perfectly fine characters all of them. The issue is that Tree Jebus shouldn’t have been written like that in the first place.

    This is our personal story, not the Chronicles of Mary Sue Tree Jebus. As soon as that dreadful vegetable is introduced it ceases to be about your character and he/she is reduced to a sideline observer of his personal story.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Moonyeti.3296 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

    That's how things go. There's a hierarchy everwhere, even in your daily life. Until you're the big boss noone will give you credit's for anything. I have no issue with that, I never cared about it. I mean it's just a game and what the NPCs "think" doesn't matter to me.

    Wat. That’s entirely irrelevant to what I’m talking about.

    Why is it irrelevant? You said you didn't like that Trehearne stole the limelight from you. Clyan pointed out that he is your boss, bosses usually get the credit. That is completely on topic and relevant to what you were saying. You just don't agree with it.

    No it is irrelevant because I’ve no issues with “a boss” character and have said nothing of the sort. The issue is that Tree Jebus shouldn’t have been written like that in the first place.

    This is our personal story, not the Chronicles of Mary Sue Tree Jebus. As soon as that dreadful vegetable is introduced it ceases to be about your character and he/she is reduced to a sideline observer.

    Yeah, you made your point the first time, that still doesn't make it irrelevant, it makes it a different opinion. Irrelevant would be something off topic. This is directly on topic, just a different take on it.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moonyeti.3296 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Moonyeti.3296 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

    That's how things go. There's a hierarchy everwhere, even in your daily life. Until you're the big boss noone will give you credit's for anything. I have no issue with that, I never cared about it. I mean it's just a game and what the NPCs "think" doesn't matter to me.

    Wat. That’s entirely irrelevant to what I’m talking about.

    Why is it irrelevant? You said you didn't like that Trehearne stole the limelight from you. Clyan pointed out that he is your boss, bosses usually get the credit. That is completely on topic and relevant to what you were saying. You just don't agree with it.

    No it is irrelevant because I’ve no issues with “a boss” character and have said nothing of the sort. The issue is that Tree Jebus shouldn’t have been written like that in the first place.

    This is our personal story, not the Chronicles of Mary Sue Tree Jebus. As soon as that dreadful vegetable is introduced it ceases to be about your character and he/she is reduced to a sideline observer.

    Yeah, you made your point the first time, that still doesn't make it irrelevant, it makes it a different opinion. Irrelevant would be something off topic. This is directly on topic, just a different take on it.

    Relevant to the topic, irrelevant to the point I was making.

    Now cease this petty derailment of the thread, please.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Doesn’t really matter if he took credit or not. It wasn’t really about him as a character, but rather the role his character was forced into and how he, willingly or not, became the main focus in a story that was supposed to be about your character.

    Not the character’s own fault, but the fault of Anet’s writers. If that makes any sense?

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    Well, but that really only ever matters in the core story, right? I don't know if he appeared in LS1 at all and in LS2 he's just there for moral support and for organizing the Pact offscreen. So, after the core story the PC definitely is the main focus of the story we play, right?

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    Also, in the German version he's practically haunting us now. :scream: His voice actor seems to be taking more and more roles, it's really disturbing at times. Agent Kito, the bounty guys, even Braham in LS4, plus random NPCs.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    Well, but that really only ever matters in the core story, right? I don't know if he appeared in LS1 at all and in LS2 he's just there for moral support and for organizing the Pact offscreen. So, after the core story the PC definitely is the main focus of the story we play, right?

    Honestly, I don’t know. Most recent LW episodes seems to be more focused on the main villain’s actions and then all the good guys (PC included) just being equally dragged along for the ride fueled by whatever Plot Device/Maguffin/Ex Machina that Taimi pulls out of her adorable behind in response said villain’s action.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rognik.2579 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    See for example the Pact Mentor characters (Forgal, Tybalt and the third one) - perfectly fine characters all of them.

    Poor Sieran. No one ever remebers her. That is so not cherry!

    As for Trahearne taking the lead of the Pact, I don't really have a problem with it myself. First of all, he has to coordinate most of the attacks, while we as the Commander are free to lead the actual attacks. Second, as they said in game, he wasn't a member of any of the Orders, so he won't show a bias to any one of them. Third, from a game-design angle, it's easier to later identify a single NPC instead of having to describe a nameless PC who could be either gender or 5 different races. That's the same reason we turned down the Marshall position in the start of Season 3, especially as it was going to be a desk posting, staying far away from any danger. Unless, of course, you wanted to play Paperwork Wars 2.

    That someone who wasn't the player character led the pact isn't the problem, it's that Trahearne is a huge Mary sue who comes out of nowhere and takes the reins, there are better ways it could have been executed and the story only got better when he was gone.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    The story could have been exactly the same without him dying. He could have done the desktop job just as well as Logan and the Pact is pretty much out of the picture anyway. So yes, the story got better. But that started right with LS2 and is not tied directly to Trahearne's death.
    Also, you might want to double check the meaning of Mary Sue?

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Read my posts above. Nobody is saying that Trahearne personally stole anything.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Tsakhi.8124Tsakhi.8124 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2018

    @Oglaf.1074 , I actually do see where you're going and I agree in regards to him being put in a spot that didn't seem quite fitting, however, as a whole, it seems as though the community hated Trahearne specifically because he stole "your" story. Then again, I probably think way too much about this kind of thing. XD

    Ṡ̴͍̱̯̫̤̈o̶͍̪͔͚͉̖̤̍̈͛̊͑̈́́͗̿͊̆͝r̷̥̩͍̹͖̬̗̳̣̰͛͜r̵̡̡̛̩̠̳͉̺̞̥̤̘̭̽y̴̨̠̹͔̞̤̭̥̤͔͖͖̏̿́͆̈̈́̄̇̀̔͝ͅ

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    Also, you might want to double check the meaning of Mary Sue.

    He's a pretty text book case of a Mary Sue, you might want to look it up yourself. He somehow has history with all of the order mentors, has no personality or charm but is somehow liked by everyone, just happens to he such a powerful necromancer he summons a whole gang of flesh golems /and/ can single handedly purify an entire continent. Then there's the fact he has no experience yet somehow magically pulls the ability to lead an entire army out of nowhere... Then there's the whole "he's the chosen one by the tree to wield this legendary magic sword". All of these are Mary Sue traits.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2018

    I could never really buy him as leader of the Pact. He didn't really have any charisma, or military experience. He wasn't somehow a mix of the strengths of the three Orders, he was basically just another Priory scholar that happened not to have a formal membership. He was a firstborn, true (they could have talked that up more), he had a Wyld Hunt regarding the dragon (which makes him a more verbal Aurene, ie a plot device, not a commander). I could see if he fell into it due to cynical machinations on the part of the Order leaders (trying to set up a figurehead to manipulate), and randomly happened to be good at it. I could see if he was written more as an intense charismatic not-quite-religious leader on a crusade against the dragon that pulled people along with him.

    Nothing against the guy, but both his relationship with the PC and with the Pact were just pulled out of the air without any real narrative backing. You know, how in a fan fiction a character might be added who becomes friends with all the important protagonist characters for some unexplained reason and everyone loves and doesn't just join one faction, but finds a way to rapidly become leader of all of them (i.e. a Mary Sue, or else an Elder Scrolls player character). Of course, the PC is also a bit of a Mary Sue, at least in the Personal Story, but there's at least an established progression that explains how you're building your reputation up. It's mostly the interest of your DE mentor that feels a little contrived (e.g., it's hard to take being the hero of Shaemoor seriously when it isn't even a solo instance, so there are multiple heroes. What makes you stand out?). Well, that, and becoming Pact Commander rather than just becoming an elite operative in your chosen Order.

    • First of all, shame on the guy who forgot Sieran. All three mentors were quite memorable.
    • Second, Trahearne may have not stolen our credit for any action, but he did still the credit for the name of Fort Trinity.
    • Third, he was a horrible choice for Pact Commander, and someone else should have taken the job (not the PC). Trahearne would make an excellent choice for chief advisor on all things Orr/Zhaitan. He was a scholar, not a military commander. He had the charisma of a bog log too.
  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @smekras.8203 said:

    • First of all, shame on the guy who forgot Sieran.

    I’m a Vigil Boi. All my characters except two alts (for the other factions respectively) are Vigil. That’s why I couldn’t remember the Priory mentor. Tybalt I remember solely because of the one scene where he transforms into a teenage girl and talks about his newfound pair of lovely, round apples. :wink:

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2018

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

    Trahearne wasn't a mary sue in the least, and he certainly never stole the PC's credit. Hell, he constantly praised the PC. Just because he became the Marshal doesn't mean he stole credit or spotlight.

    Name one specific instance where he stole credit. I've asked others who are so adamant that he stole credit and spotlight time, but they couldn't give a proper answer because the few answers they gave, in that same situation he credited and praised the PC for a job well done.

    Sigh. Again with this? Read what I actually wrote about the spotlight stealing. It has nothing to do with what Trahearne does at all. It is about a shift in narrative focus not character actions. Once he enters the scene it ceases to be the story of your character; he/she gets shoved into the role of a supporting character and observer to Tree Jebus fulfilling his destiny. This stands in stark contrast to earlier “chapters” having been all about your character’s origins and rise to power/fame.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

    Trahearne wasn't a mary sue in the least, and he certainly never stole the PC's credit. Hell, he constantly praised the PC. Just because he became the Marshal doesn't mean he stole credit or spotlight.

    Name one specific instance where he stole credit. I've asked others who are so adamant that he stole credit and spotlight time, but they couldn't give a proper answer because the few answers they gave, in that same situation he credited and praised the PC for a job well done.

    You lost me at not a Mary Sue in the least.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

    Trahearne wasn't a mary sue in the least, and he certainly never stole the PC's credit. Hell, he constantly praised the PC. Just because he became the Marshal doesn't mean he stole credit or spotlight.

    Name one specific instance where he stole credit. I've asked others who are so adamant that he stole credit and spotlight time, but they couldn't give a proper answer because the few answers they gave, in that same situation he credited and praised the PC for a job well done.

    Sigh. Again with this? Read what I actually wrote about the spotlight stealing. It has nothing to do with what Trahearne does at all. It is about a shift in narrative focus not character actions. Once he enters the scene it ceases to be the story of your character; he/she gets shoved into the role of a supporting character and observer to Tree Jebus fulfilling his destiny. This stands in stark contrast to earlier “chapters” having been all about your character’s origins and rise to power/fame.

    Firstly, you never mentioned anything about "a shift in narrative focus" in any of your posts.

    Secondly, no, it's still a story about your character. I mean, the story from Claw Island onward is about you avenging your mentor and slaying an Elder Dragon, with the support of Trahearne. It is not about Trahearne slaying an Elder Dragon with your support.

    Trahearne plays the support role, you're the one being the kitten hero who slays the mighty champions, Mouths, and Eyes. You're the one who faces down the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan. Trahearne may be higher ranked than you, and he may have the ritual to cleanse Orr, but in the end he's just a patsy to your deeds and actions. Without the PC, Trahearne would have failed, fallen to depression, and given up.

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

    Trahearne wasn't a mary sue in the least, and he certainly never stole the PC's credit. Hell, he constantly praised the PC. Just because he became the Marshal doesn't mean he stole credit or spotlight.

    Name one specific instance where he stole credit. I've asked others who are so adamant that he stole credit and spotlight time, but they couldn't give a proper answer because the few answers they gave, in that same situation he credited and praised the PC for a job well done.

    You lost me at not a Mary Sue in the least.

    A Mary Sue is a nigh flawless character who often succeeds where the main character (or in the case of fan fiction, where the non-original characters) fail despite no reason for either the others' failure or the Mary Sue character's success.

    Scarlet Briar was a Mary Sue character because she had an impossibly grand background (studied under nearly all races and succeeded better than them), and whenever someone tried to punish her she got away ultimately scotch free. That's almost the very definition of a Mary Sue character.

    Trahearne doesn't have a grandios background - yes, he's Firstborn and respected among orders for his history, but that respect as we see when non-sylvari first meet (as well as when we're forming the pact) him has a pretty low limit. He suffers from depression and self-doubt, which is actually a pretty decent character flaw to balance out the fact he's a powerful necromancer and knowledgeable about Orr and risen. He doesn't just get to snap his proverbial fingers and solve whatever problem comes his way (unlike Scarlet), he has to actually work towards them.

    Just because he's a character you think steals the spotlight once introduced, doesn't mean he actually does, and doesn't mean that he's a Mary Sue character just because you dislike him.

    Scarlet being a more egregious example doesn't make Trahearne not one. He still pulls talents out if nowhere, is inexplicably well liked and flat as a character. The Destiny and sword business only cement this. Just because you like him doesn't make him not a Mary Sue, sorry.

  • Pax.3548Pax.3548 Member ✭✭✭

    I liked Trahearne, didn't care one bit about the "butting inside mah personal story" thing, though his voice acting was annoying.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2018

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    Scarlet being a more egregious example doesn't make Trahearne not one. He still pulls talents out if nowhere, is inexplicably well liked and flat as a character. The Destiny and sword business only cement this. Just because you like him doesn't make him not a Mary Sue, sorry.

    What talents does he pull "out of nowhere"? The only examples I can think of would be summoning multiple flesh golems, but he was long established to be a powerful necromancer at that point (and strengthened by Caladbolg, which was also established before then), or the ritual to cleanse orr, which similarly was very long established. Nothing out of nowhere.

    And well liked? Yes, that is exactly why he had to prove himself to the Orders despite being respected by them. Unlike Scarlet, who's short story shows people taking a liking to her for no god damned reason, Trahearne's respect came from spending 20 years on and off visiting one of the most dangerous places in the world (at the time). His backstory actually has reason for him being liked, just like the members of Destiny's Edge. Or are they Mary Sues too in your view?

    That's like proclaiming Deckard Cain from Diablo is a Mary Sue character because he knows a bunch of stuff about the Prime Evils because he spent his whole life studying demonology.

    That's not a Mary Sue.

    Flat character? Well, his voice sure is. But I wouldn't say that his character is. He's actually a well rounded character if you can ignore that annoying voicing.

    And his "destiny" doesn't make a Mary Sue. If that was true, then nearly every "chosen one" character in the history of fiction (famous examples: Anakin Skywalker, Dragon Age: Origins PC, Shepard from Mass Effect, and thousands more) would be considered a Mary Sue. That's a trope. Very different. And being gifted a legendary weapon also doesn't make a Mary Sue - again, that'd be a trope that can date back to folklore like King Arthur and Excalibur.

    And I never said I liked Trahearne; in fact, I dislike him, largely due to his super flat voicing. I just said he isn't a Mary Sue. So stop trying to shoving words into my mouth.

    If you're going to repeatedly proclaim Trahearne is a Mary Sue, how about providing specific examples? Go on, I'll wait.

    Leading an army while having only experience in scholarly pursuits, there an example of a skill that isn't explained. His flaws are all swept under the table and come off as insignificant, single handedly purifying an entire continent... Then there's stuff like again, the convenience of somehow having all the respect of the orders already before he just poofs in. Being some kind of "chosen one" is something I've always considered poor writing, and tacking it on to everything else is just further pushing him into Mary Sue territory. I don't care if you like him, he's still a Mary Sue and none of your unbased claims will change that duder.

    The way he pulls the spotlight onto himself us also a sign of a Mary Sue, despite how much you're in denial about that fact. A lot of this comes in my issues with Sylvari as a whole though, he's only actually in his mid 20s and has accomplished all this, I don't give a single kitten about the Sylvari's "born fully grown" garbage, that isn't how mental development works, and it's kitten stupid. Trahearne and later Scarlet are an amalgamation of the issues with the Sylvari race as a whole and don't even try to say their back story as dragon minions somehow excuses this. I'm far from the only one who thinks these things about Trahearne, and beliefs like that don't just come from thin air.

    Anet knew they messed up with him and that's why he was killed off, deal with it.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Again with the nonsense of him “stealing credit”. For the millionth time, that is not the friggin issue.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Tabasco.1743Tabasco.1743 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eekasqueak.7850
    I don't plan to get in the way, but I would like to clarify something:

    Leading an army while having only experience in scholarly pursuits, there an example of a skill that isn't explained. His flaws are all swept under the table and come off as insignificant, single handedly purifying an entire continent... Then there's stuff like again, the convenience of somehow having all the respect of the orders already before he just poofs in. Being some kind of "chosen one" is something I've always considered poor writing, and tacking it on to everything else is just further pushing him into Mary Sue territory. I don't care if you like him, he's still a Mary Sue and none of your unbased claims will change that duder.

    Trahearne did not purify the continent of Orr. He used Caladbolg to purifiy a wellspring named "The Source of Orr" ...AKA the Artesian Waters. We know from the lore that this is a place of power unlike any other in Tyria. Zhaitan empowered The Soveriegn Eye in that spring to maintain the magic that carried his necrotic energy to all areas in Orr. Even with Zhaitan's lieutenant slain, and the magic corrupting the waters nullified, Orr remains corrupt until the last of the undead dragon's energy is mitigated in the land. Though the areas we explored during the original personal story remain visually locked in the year 1325AE, the process is visible in season 3 where Siren's Landing is introduced. Even there in 1330AE we can still see how much of Zhaitan's influence still creeps through the soil.

    While we have been off saving the world from other threats, the narrative of Orr (and Siren's Landing) has been about reclamation of the land from the lesser sources of the dragon's corruption, which is a feasible goal now that the Source of Orr has been cleansed.

    Oh, and the reason @Konig Des Todes.2086 version of events makes no sense to you is due to your working definition of "Mary Sue" being suitably and entirely dissimilar. You are correct about Trahearne, but the scope of your correctness ends at the boundary of your perspective. Until you find common understanding you'll have to agree to disagree with him. (and a number of others here)

  • Kitty.6219Kitty.6219 Member ✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

    This, he Aragorned me from my moment of glory, his death was too easy, I would have chopped, burnt and grilled meat on top of his corpse.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I could see why Trahearne, surviving and learning in Orr, would have the respect of the Priory. But not so much the other two -- he didn't go around slaughtering enough Dragon minions to earn the respect of the Vigil, and he never seemed to have the cunning that might earn him the respect of the Order of Whispers.

    Now, maybe it would have worked better if your character saw the defeat at Claw Island and been the first to realize the Orders need to work together. You consult with your mentor in Destiny's Edge, who basically advises you to pull a My Fair Lady with Trahearne, who is known to the Orders but not affiliated, (under guidance from the other DE characters), and basically manufacture a reputation for him that will let him form the Pact. It would actually involve them more in the PS, and it would explain why people are willing to follow Trahearne. It might even let players see the emergence of leadership qualities (or, re-emergence, if they were lost due to self-doubt from some backstory screwup) rather than just pulling them out of thin air.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    Order of Whispers:

    He helped to overthrow the former leader. I'm not quite sure, I guess the former leader was corrupted by one of the dragons or something like that? Anyhow, that was the reason for the order.

    I like your alternative scenario though. :) It also reduces the influence of the Pale Tree greatly, which is a definite plus. For non-sylvari PCs I find it quite hard to just go along with seemingly random prophecies and suggestions from the Tree at that point.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A moment of silence for another firtsborn https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wynne

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There are good reasons why the community disliked him so much.

    That said I liked his end, killing him of was satisfying to me as a player who didn't like him..
    But I also liked how they did it.. with a sacrifice.

  • @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

    I liked exactly that. It's so ridiculous that by now, every player is the original heroest hero around. It makes much more sense if we're just one of many random people with their own, but ultimately hidden, personal story who contributed instead of being the main character. Total immersion breaker in an MMORPG.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @deatine.2498 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    No. I will never forgive his Mary Sue treebutt for coming in and stealing the show, making the latter half of my personal story all about him, nor will I ever take anything but sick pleasure from having been the one to do him in for good.

    I liked exactly that. It's so ridiculous that by now, every player is the original heroest hero around. It makes much more sense if we're just one of many random people with their own, but ultimately hidden, personal story who contributed instead of being the main character. Total immersion breaker in an MMORPG.

    This is the same reason that Kormir was the spear Marshall and became a goddess. The player could never obtain godhood, not in a mmo franchise.

    Trahearne plays pretty much the same role here. The thing is though, Trahearne is always asking for advice from the Commander, who honestly doesn’t have much more experience then Trahearne.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2018

    I never cared about being the "chosen snowflake", I regarded Trahearne just a comrade in arms. if there is something that I like about Personal History that is very militaristic tone. I suspect that I get sick of being the "choosen one", because I played the Dragon Age Inquisition before going to gw2.

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    Leading an army while having only experience in scholarly pursuits, there an example of a skill that isn't explained.

    A job that he does pretty poorly overall, and constantly refers to his four highest advisors (including the PC!) just like any inexperienced medieval king or adviser put in charge of an army that isn't so full of himself that gets his army destroyed.

    So, false.

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    His flaws are all swept under the table and come off as insignificant,

    They're continuously played to the very end of Victory or Death... We don't see them very much when we meet him again in Season 2, and he seems more general-y than scholarly, but he still performed some fatal tactical errors when not taking advisers' aide (which led to the Pact's destruction).

    Still swept under the table?

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    single handedly purifying an entire continent...

    For starters, Orr isn't even a continent, but a nation; more importantly, though, as is hammered into us during Siren's Landing, after Trahearne's initial ritual (which we knew then and there could be undone and was just the beginning of things), dozens of sylvari have been working to further the purification of Orr alongside the ghosts trapped within the Eyes of Zhaitan.

    So, false.

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    Then there's stuff like again, the convenience of somehow having all the respect of the orders already before he just poofs in. Being some kind of "chosen one" is something I've always considered poor writing, and tacking it on to everything else is just further pushing him into Mary Sue territory. I don't care if you like him, he's still a Mary Sue and none of your unbased claims will change that duder.

    Having a background of respect doesn't make one a Mary Sue. By this very argument, Rytlock is a Mary Sue. Eir is a Mary Sue. Zojja is a Mary Sue. Logan is a Mary Sue. Caithe is a Mary Sue. Why? Because they have backgrounds of respect, are each the most iconic figure of their species, and have some sort of special gear or attribute that makes them stand out above the rest even despite their backgrounds.

    These are not qualities of a Mary Sue. I think you need to look up what the definition of Mary Sue is.

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    The way he pulls the spotlight onto himself us also a sign of a Mary Sue, despite how much you're in denial about that fact.

    Tell me one case where he "pulls the spotlight onto himself". Hell, even @Oglaf.1074 is now denying he does such a thing (despite his original posts stating that he did, ironic).

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    he's only actually in his mid 20s and has accomplished all this, I don't give a single kitten about the Sylvari's "born fully grown" garbage, that isn't how mental development works, and it's kitten stupid.

    It actually is how mental development works for magical beings called sylvari; their mental development occurs in the Dream of Dreams, before they awaken and are "born". Technically speaking, if we go by mental development, the Firstborn are not 23 years old by the time of the PS but instead probably more like 30 if not older (we do not know how long their consciousness - or any sylvari's consciousness for that matter - exists in the Dream before awakening).

    And at that, Logan, Rytlock, and Zojja are both in their mid/late 20s and they're just as accomplished if not moreso than Trahearne during the PS (EoD makes Logan and Rytlock to sound like they're somewhere around 19-23 and 5 years pass, while Zojja is a bit younger, sounding more like 16/17). Hell, by this point so is Braham, he's only 17 when we meet him in 1326 and it's been 5 years since then now. He's 21 and he's felled an Elder Dragon and cracked the uncrackable tooth of Jormag with a special bow of his mother imbued with ancient jotun magic. Is he, too, a Mary Sue?

    Is every major character just a Mary Sue to you, because they're important figures or something? Because they're above the average character? Is that what "Mary Sue" is to you? Because it sure as heck sounds like it.

    Every complaint you've tossed towards Trahearne is either blatantly false or can be attributed to nearly every major character in every piece of fiction across the scope of fiction, except those that focus on underdogs who remain underdogs.

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    I'm far from the only one who thinks these things about Trahearne, and beliefs like that don't just come from thin air.

    Like I said, he may be a well designed character, but he was poorly executed. That's where people's complaints come from - the execution. And ultimately, many, like you, mistaken this poor execution for "Mary Suedom" or something similar, because you have an apparent gross misunderstanding of what a Mary Sue is.

    If you think the way he was executed is just "above" average, then you are in serious denial, but that much has been obvious from the start. I don't have a "gross misunderstanding" of what a Mary Sue is, I'm just not in denial about it and I'm actually willing to accept that not all sues are equally OP, but he still pulls skills out of nowhere, whether you're willing to admit it or not. Just like how you keep denying the spotlight thing, but you do you. You thought Jok(e)o was a good character after all.

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