Condition Damage & Ferocity Merging [Idea]

Condition Damage:Reduced base and coefficients by 25% of current values.

Ferocity renamed to Intensity:Intensity function unchanged for critical damage. Now also improves condition damage at 15 points = 1%.

0 ferocity = 75% of old condition damage values500 ferocity = 100% of old condition damage values633/639 ferocity = 107% of old condition damage values961 ferocity = 123% of old condition damage values1173 ferocity = 133% of old condition damage values

Rampager stat now gives:Precision + Ferocity/Condition Damage

Dire stat now gives:Condition + Ferocity/Vitality

Trailblazer stat now gives:Ferocity/Condition Damage + Vitality/Expertise

Condition Damage gear stat will no long be directly paired with both vitality and toughness going forward.

Idk just my thoughts oh how to bring condition damage into the fold of high damage requiring 3 different stats. Probably could see some un-nerfs to condition application in specific cases.

Of course some balance changes would have to be made however I've always wished it was like this:

Reduce the base damage of conditions and possible power damage too, balancing is always tricky.Conditions can now crit. The critchance is based on precision. When a condition crits the inflicted condition debuffs deal more damage based on ferocity.Power now use 3 damage stats, Condition now use 3 (or 4 counting condition duration).

Concerns I have with the idea is hybrid builds possibly becoming too dominant compared to power and condi ones.

@Justine.6351 said:Condition Damage:Reduced base and coefficients by 25% of current values.

Ferocity renamed to Intensity:Intensity function unchanged for critical damage. Now also improves condition damage at 15 points = 1%.

0 ferocity = 75% of old condition damage values500 ferocity = 100% of old condition damage values633/639 ferocity = 107% of old condition damage values961 ferocity = 123% of old condition damage values1173 ferocity = 133% of old condition damage values

Rampager stat now gives:Precision + Ferocity/Condition Damage

Dire stat now gives:Condition + Ferocity/Vitality

Trailblazer stat now gives:Ferocity/Condition Damage + Vitality/Expertise

Condition Damage gear stat will no long be directly paired with both vitality and toughness going forward.

Idk just my thoughts oh how to bring condition damage into the fold of high damage requiring 3 different stats. Probably could see some un-nerfs to condition application in specific cases.

So your idea is to needlessly complicate condi damage output just to force in a 3rd stat requirement, and do an unhealthy removal of all defensive and health stats from specific build set-ups? Are you trying to create even more issues with combat gameplay?

...I feel like you need to think things through a bit more and focus on solving the real problems, not create more of them.

I don't get the motion of forcing condi builds to 3 dmg stats. Comdition builds require more defensive statistics just to have time to deal damage.

@Virelion.4128 said:I don't get the motion of forcing condi builds to 3 dmg stats. Comdition builds require more defensive statistics just to have time to deal damage.

its not forcing them, it is giving them an option to deal more damage and die faster. they can still remain tanky trading in a little damage.

Ya its really not that complicated. Ferocity would improve condition damage by +%, 15ferocity/1%. Doesn't require calculus or anything lol.

It feels like condi damage is fairly balanced now to me? Is there a specific aspect in which you feel condi damaged is unbalanced now in WvW?

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Virelion.4128 said:I don't get the motion of forcing condi builds to 3 dmg stats. Comdition builds require more defensive statistics just to have time to deal damage.

There are already options to create condi builds without certain stats, that carry certain strengths and weaknesses, if the user chooses...

There isn’t anything in the suggestion that improves the state of condi builds or gameplay.

@"Justine.6351" said:Ya its really not that complicated. Ferocity would improve condition damage by +%, 15ferocity/1%. Doesn't require calculus or anything lol.

You’re right, your idea isn’t complicated to understand, but it doesn’t address any real issues with the condition system as it stands. Just makes things worse and kills off build diversity.

You should identify the real issues and address them instead, not make more problems.

Quote below so you understand what I mean by identifying issues and trying to come up with solutions....

“These will be simplified suggestions... The changes will be great for spvp and wvw, and the rest of the game too.

AMA quotes to start...

“We’re looking at the condition damage issues that are inherent to the scaling number of players in WvW. Major mode-centric changes are a major part of balance patches and we’ll be iterating through several potential changes specifically for WvW. I wouldn’t expect huge mode-specific balance changes before the first post-PoF balance patch”

“Power is intended to be more spike damage-centric. Condi more ramping sustained damage. Currently there are some issues with how quickly condition damage can be spiked up, negating the benefits of power damage. If I presented you with a power skill that dealt 1,000 damage instantaneously and a condition one that dealt 1,000 damage over 4 seconds there wouldn’t be a question about what build to choose; you’d go with the instant option every time. Not counting other effects, condition skills must inflict more damage over their duration in order to make power vs. condi into a real choice.”

The Suggestions...

A stat, that players can build for with gear, that mitigates condi damage... Toughness would be my personal preference.

Remove condition damage from auto-attacks.

Weapon attacks designed for condition damage are changed to DoT (damage over time) skills using 1 particular condition damage per tick. Examples using the AMA quotes for guidance... A power weapon skill is assigned to hit for 1,000 raw damage. A new condi DoT skill is assigned to hit for 1,200 condition damage, and hits an opponent for 300 condition DoT damage over 4 seconds.

Ranger Shortbow damage type examples using the above suggestion...

~Crossfire- X power damage. No bleeds.~Poison Volley- X poison DoT over X seconds.~Quick Shot- X bleed DoT over X seconds.~Crippling Shot- X bleed DoT over X seconds.~Concussion Shot- X power damage.

*You keep in place all the other secondary “stuff” going on with the skills. So Quick Shot still provides evade and swiftness... Crippling Shot still provides cripple and immobilize...

Assign each individual weapon skill and slot skill to use only 1 type of DoT damaging condition. You still keep secondary movement impairing and hard conditions on skills...

Look at the difference between these skills and you’ll see what I mean.

Way crazy and over-the-top condi skill, and highlights the overarching condi issues this game faces...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Spite

Well designed condi skill, and what I’m talking about with the above with assigning 1 DoT condi to all skills.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blood_Is_Power

Cleansing skills become power and condi DoT damage mitigation skills, but they still remove secondary soft (cripple, chill, ...) and hard (daze, knock down... ) condition effects. These redesigned cleanses do not remove condi DoT damage...

Skills that produce hard condition effects remain the same.

All stats and equipment remain and function the same way, except expertise...Either remove expertise so the devs can have duration control on skills for balance, or expertise can function like precision does, but only for condi DoT damage.”

As long as the final product yields condition damage is equal to physical damage then it would work. But if this idea causes condition damage to spike someone down instantly then it wouldn't work (from a 1v1 standpoint). Same goes if it overall weakens it to the point that it takes too much condition application and time to bring someone down.

I do like the idea of condition damage being able to crit, but at the same time it would also need to have a means to speed up how fast it ticks to prevent a heavily invested build rendered useless by 1 simple condition cleanse. You'd also have to remove resistance from the game as well (which I'm fine with).

You first have to identify if there is even a problem with conditions to begin with, so lets look at a class that uses them heavily, Scourge. Many players now have dumped scourge condition builds in favor of power/blood magic support builds. If anyone looks at their combat log in WvW after a big fight, you will likely see the majority of the damage you sustain is physical attacks, not conditions. Even from scourge, you'll see more damage from initial attacks from shades rather than the conditions themselves. At first glance this would tell someone that conditions in fact don't do enough damage; they are supposed to be equal to physical damage. Perhaps your idea may fix this if it allows more bursty condition.

Condition damage is pretty balanced right now. It's literally just two professions that are able to abuse the defensive gear w/condition damage, largely due to the frustrating and mechanics that go along with them. Ranger and Mesmer. Both have avoidance, AI to block, and one of their AI's does berserker-stat damage regardless of what gear the player is using...I dunno how to balance condi mesmer, but I always thought that Ranger pets stats should mirror the gear that it's owner has equipped. There is no reason that a pet should do the same damage regardless if the owner is even wearing armor or not.

@Turk.5460 said:I dunno how to balance condi mesmer, but I always thought that Ranger pets stats should mirror the gear that it's owner has equipped. There is no reason that a pet should do the same damage regardless if the owner is even wearing armor or not.That's stupid and completely removes the point of the pet even having independent stats.

(also the most-used pet is basically identical to a bear, stats-wise, so I don't think you've thought this cunning plan all the way through)

Seriously, you think condition damage should be able to crit? Lol...

@"Justine.6351"

It does not make sense, u already vulnerability for that, and a ton of skills actually aply it.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vulnerability

Condition damage needs to be a separated stats, IMO magic atack and magic def needs also to be created, the more stats u have the more easy is to balance since it WONT conflict with other types of skills.

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I dunno how to balance condi mesmer, but I always thought that Ranger pets stats should mirror the gear that it's owner has equipped. There is no reason that a pet should do the same damage regardless if the owner is even wearing armor or not.That's stupid and completely removes the point of the pet even having independent stats.

WOW did I hit a hot button? Someone got very defensive very quickly...

Congratulations. You just found a way to make Mirages even more cancerous.