Ranger is way too strong 1v1 in WvW — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Ranger is way too strong 1v1 in WvW

Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
edited August 16, 2018 in Ranger

It is too hard to kill a ranger, they get too many invulns dodging and stealth and hit like a truck. I block, and they pierce through my shield, I cripple, and they stealth and teleport away, I activate my invuln yet somehow the skill bugs out and allows me to still take physical damage enough is enough my dude. They need a nerf as they have a serious advantage in the roaming scene. I switch to full toughness armor and that bear greatsword skill chomped all of my hp and I'm still questioning how that even happens.

<134

Comments

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018

    Sounds like the Soulbeast knew how to deal with a Warrior.

    As for taking damage when you're invul, it's not a bug, soul beast can stack a good 10s or more of unblockable attacks, very effective for killing some classes such as Guardian, Warrior and Mesmer.

    It's really amusing when facing a guardian roamer actually because out of reaction they pop the focus 5 which won't stop unblockables then chain through the blocks/aegis which has no effect and by that stage you can literally see the player spamming dodges and panicking because you're still 1500+ range away safely pewpewing... Or they Judges intervention right into your worldly Impact.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • necromaniac.7629necromaniac.7629 Member ✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018

    Never managed to have trouble with ranger cause when they are pew-pewing I just mirror immediately but when they make their attacks un-blockable I just evade, hide among clones, stealth, port all over the place (just confuse them)
    Oh and I try to not be in their line of sight

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As many mentioned here, yes ranger has many unblockables and they counter blocking builds.
    Best counter against a ranger IMO is spamming CC. Rangers have low amounts of stability and need to use all the stunbreaks in the world to get away, ofc you need to catch them in melee or have ranged CC which isnt that common.
    Generally its the best idea to get out of their line of site and ambush them when in melee range.

  • PaRaPhReNiA.8763PaRaPhReNiA.8763 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018

    Lmaoooooo Maul brrrrroken
    Maybe u tell us your class and which build reks u, i guess guardian Tho, right ?

  • Lynnie.7213Lynnie.7213 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't know if i take this serious or not?

    DONEE - Youtube
    https://youtube.com/donee

  • @Faffin.6741 said:
    Play one, so you understand what they are doing. I wish you knew how funny this is if you do know what the ranger did. A ranger has 3 different unblockable modes, so no, it's not a bug when he hits you through invulnerability.
    Another thing I wish you knew is what a colossal pain in the kitten a warrior is if you're not set up to counter them. Most of the time I'm not, as I would have to sacrifice efficiency in other ways.

    The OP is full of nonsense but there is a lot wrong with that first sentence.

    Blocking is not invulnerable. Double endure pain on warrior isn't invulnerable either, it just reduces power damage to zero. This is the exact same functionality as signet of stone on ranger. Unblockable doesn't let you hit through invulnerability nor does it let you do more than zero power damage to someone with endure pain or signet of stone active. If that is happening it's a bug.

    That being said, the OP probably didn't realize that endure pain wore off. The only teleport ranger has is with merged smoke scale and that is an offensive teleport towards the enemy. So that's also a blatant misunderstanding of what ranger does.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magebane_Tether_(trait_skill)
    You have a pulsing reveal to counter stealth as a warrior. Use it. It will also cc them and pull them back to you when they "teleport away." If they are 1 hit KO'ing you with Maul, and that is possible, they are full glass and have very little defense or stability. Chain CC them.

  • Rock? Meet Paper.

    I ain't gonna lie, this was the funniest post I've read all day. Whoever you are OP, thank you for this. Ranger to strong in WvW, omg, priceless.

  • I was not aware we could stealth and teleport away - where do I learn that skill?

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Sounds like the Soulbeast knew how to deal with a Warrior.

    As for taking damage when you're invul, it's not a bug, soul beast can stack a good 10s or more of unblockable attacks, very effective for killing some classes such as Guardian, Warrior and Mesmer.

    It's really amusing when facing a guardian roamer actually because out of reaction they pop the focus 5 which won't stop unblockables then chain through the blocks/aegis which has no effect and by that stage you can literally see the player spamming dodges and panicking because you're still 1500+ range away safely pewpewing... Or they Judges intervention right into your worldly Impact.

    "Spamming dodges" So tell me what is the counterplay to the stupid mechanic of unblockables? If I don't dodge I'm downed in less than 3 seconds, If I dodge and get the opportunity to pressure, press invuln or go safely in stealth and repeat. And even in melee ranger you can still outpressure your opponent
    It's really amusing when people plays such a low risk high reward build and act like pro players.
    Really a 3 buttons combo made from 1500 range is everything, but definetely not skill based.
    Just another cheesy toxic easy to play wvw build not much different from mirage and spellbreaker.

  • @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @skystorm.9280 said:
    I was not aware we could stealth and teleport away - where do I learn that skill?

    from Juvenile Mesmers

    dang it I dont have the expansion to get that pet :/
    for real though I lold at your comment xD

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Sounds like the Soulbeast knew how to deal with a Warrior.

    As for taking damage when you're invul, it's not a bug, soul beast can stack a good 10s or more of unblockable attacks, very effective for killing some classes such as Guardian, Warrior and Mesmer.

    It's really amusing when facing a guardian roamer actually because out of reaction they pop the focus 5 which won't stop unblockables then chain through the blocks/aegis which has no effect and by that stage you can literally see the player spamming dodges and panicking because you're still 1500+ range away safely pewpewing... Or they Judges intervention right into your worldly Impact.

    "Spamming dodges" So tell me what is the counterplay to the stupid mechanic of unblockables? If I don't dodge I'm downed in less than 3 seconds, If I dodge and get the opportunity to pressure, press invuln or go safely in stealth and repeat. And even in melee ranger you can still outpressure your opponent
    It's really amusing when people plays such a low risk high reward build and act like pro players.
    Really a 3 buttons combo made from 1500 range is everything, but definetely not skill based.
    Just another cheesy toxic easy to play wvw build not much different from mirage and spellbreaker.

    If you honestly think playing a full berserker ranger as a solo roamer is low risk, toxic and easy to play build then clearly you haven't played it before... All it takes is one competent player to shut it down.

    Most of the people who die to this are completely clueless of their surroundings or are extremely bad players... And beating players that bad won't make anyone a pro.

    Not forcely you have to run full zerk, if you mix up marauder you can still achieve oneshot damage, so playing full zerk is probably just a stupid idea to make yourself think you are such a pro.
    Man, soulbeast got the tools to make full glass irrelevant. Look at core full zerk warrior, double endure pain, adrenaline health and shield, you won't feel at all you are running full zerk.
    Look soulbeast, double or single stone signet, block from gs, safe range from longbow, stealth, mobility from gs, unblockables. It's a core warrior with 1500 range, and everybody complains how toxic and easy to play is core warrior in wvw, soulbeast is a copy. The only thing is probably you have less toughness, but against condi it doesn't matter at all, you can have 2k armor or 3k armor it's the same, against power you have the tools to pressure them enough before they pressure you.
    If you have an opening with beastmode (unblockables), into longbow stun (unblockable cc instant from 1200 range) plus longbow2. 3 buttons as i said and you dropped any profession to 10-25% hp, impossible to recover from that position since you are still 1500.range and keep pressure them.
    If you said the usual "l2p" and dodge, you wasted already all your dodges and and one stunbreak for a 3 buttons combo. And you can go stealth or even go melee and pressure even more.since the opponent have probably one dodge left from sigil of energy.
    Soulbeast these days handles 2vs1 without too much effort, same as spellbreaker does.
    So yeah I confirm, low risk high reward, the "malus" on running full zerk is not relevant at all, not the same as running full zerk revenant for example.

  • Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @skystorm.9280 said:
    I was not aware we could stealth and teleport away - where do I learn that skill?

    from Juvenile Mesmers

    Best comment ever

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ChartFish.1308 said:
    @whoknocks.4935

    Say I get a perfect opening on an enemy and they're at 25% hp. What now. I blasted my only ranged CC for damage, so they can heal themselves in relative safety. My burst skills are on at least 10 seconds cooldown

    I have the advantage at the moment, heal and range still intact. But I wont be able to uphold my range advantage until my burst is back off cooldown. Long range shot isnt going to finish the job, and my unblockable will have run out by now. Closing a 1500 unit distance isnt very hard.
    Maybe I smoke assult and switch to melee. Try for a wordly impact to keep up pressure. Not impossible, but likely that enemy will dodge because the combo is obvious. Now my range advantage has been lost and I'm fighting in melee, where other classes often have the advantage instead. Sure, GS has a block and some evades, even a cc. It'll keep me going. For a bit. I rather use those cooldowns to reposition.

    Fighting in melee against almost any other class/build will give them the advantage. Even classes with ranged option like holo or staff mirage excell in melee. So it's not a position you want to be in for long.

    So by the time my cooldowns for burst are off again i will probably be in melee wether i wanted it or not. Either by initiating it myself, or enemy closing distance. Any advantage I got from opening burst is also gone, aside from classes with physical damage invuln like endure pain. I have to spend cooldowns now to get myself out of melee and into a position to burst.

    Also, run-down of skills. A merged rapid fire without sic 'em will land around 9k-11k if all crit, nothing is evaded. Any higher and you forgo signet of stone for sic 'em (you will want another stunbreak than zephyr because you'll end up using it for burst) and wilderness survival for MMS (no sustain, meager condi clear if using bear stance). And no, very few rangers take stoneform over access to might or a call of the wild. Too short duration, too long cooldown.
    Your LRS will hit 1.5k, maybe 2-3k merged.

    Even in melee ranger is not a dead weak profession by any mean, using sword/axe, you have mobility, evade and crazy damage on axe5 even if you are locked.
    If run gs have gs2 burst on super low cd, a leap, a block, a stun. Even at melee you can still pressure back your opponent.
    If you are in trouble, stealth plus heal saves you. Ranger heals are one of the bests in the game. 16sec cd on a 50% of your life heal is crazy good, it beats even healing turret with one or 2 water fields, it is activated almost immediately and 16sec cd is crazy low, 20sec cd on a good heal over time is good as well.

    It's really not that often you manage to 100-0 someoen from range without them reaching you. Even necroes, the sitting ducks, can catch up to you.

    True but you often 100-25 your opponent, or make them waste lot of resources while you are still on full cooldowns.
    As I said, go beastmode, into longbow4, into longbow2 is easy and rewarding to pull off, even if your opponent survives, guess what, all your utilities, healing, stunbreaks, elite are still there untouched.
    You are saying after pressing 3 buttons and failing the combo ranger is crazy weak and vulnerable with all the cd ON. This makes me laugh to be honest.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2018

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Sounds like the Soulbeast knew how to deal with a Warrior.

    As for taking damage when you're invul, it's not a bug, soul beast can stack a good 10s or more of unblockable attacks, very effective for killing some classes such as Guardian, Warrior and Mesmer.

    It's really amusing when facing a guardian roamer actually because out of reaction they pop the focus 5 which won't stop unblockables then chain through the blocks/aegis which has no effect and by that stage you can literally see the player spamming dodges and panicking because you're still 1500+ range away safely pewpewing... Or they Judges intervention right into your worldly Impact.

    "Spamming dodges" So tell me what is the counterplay to the stupid mechanic of unblockables? If I don't dodge I'm downed in less than 3 seconds, If I dodge and get the opportunity to pressure, press invuln or go safely in stealth and repeat. And even in melee ranger you can still outpressure your opponent
    It's really amusing when people plays such a low risk high reward build and act like pro players.
    Really a 3 buttons combo made from 1500 range is everything, but definetely not skill based.
    Just another cheesy toxic easy to play wvw build not much different from mirage and spellbreaker.

    If you honestly think playing a full berserker ranger as a solo roamer is low risk, toxic and easy to play build then clearly you haven't played it before... All it takes is one competent player to shut it down.

    Most of the people who die to this are completely clueless of their surroundings or are extremely bad players... And beating players that bad won't make anyone a pro.

    Not forcely you have to run full zerk, if you mix up marauder you can still achieve oneshot damage, so playing full zerk is probably just a stupid idea to make yourself think you are such a pro.
    Man, soulbeast got the tools to make full glass irrelevant. Look at core full zerk warrior, double endure pain, adrenaline health and shield, you won't feel at all you are running full zerk.
    Look soulbeast, double or single stone signet, block from gs, safe range from longbow, stealth, mobility from gs, unblockables. It's a core warrior with 1500 range, and everybody complains how toxic and easy to play is core warrior in wvw, soulbeast is a copy. The only thing is probably you have less toughness, but against condi it doesn't matter at all, you can have 2k armor or 3k armor it's the same, against power you have the tools to pressure them enough before they pressure you.
    If you have an opening with beastmode (unblockables), into longbow stun (unblockable cc instant from 1200 range) plus longbow2. 3 buttons as i said and you dropped any profession to 10-25% hp, impossible to recover from that position since you are still 1500.range and keep pressure them.
    If you said the usual "l2p" and dodge, you wasted already all your dodges and and one stunbreak for a 3 buttons combo. And you can go stealth or even go melee and pressure even more.since the opponent have probably one dodge left from sigil of energy.
    Soulbeast these days handles 2vs1 without too much effort, same as spellbreaker does.
    So yeah I confirm, low risk high reward, the "malus" on running full zerk is not relevant at all, not the same as running full zerk revenant for example.

    Chartfish gave a realistic situation and yet there's more to argue but what's worse is that now you're mentioning unrealistic situations like not building full glass but still being able to 3 hit people by using a knock back, rapid fire and hunters arrow all while maintaining a balanced sustain?

    Think I'm going to dip out of this one.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • ChartFish.1308ChartFish.1308 Member ✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    guess what, all your utilities, healing, stunbreaks, elite are still there untouched.
    You are saying after pressing 3 buttons and failing the combo ranger is crazy weak and vulnerable with all the cd ON. This makes me laugh to be honest.

    I didnt say that lmao. I just said it's weaker in melee, not helpless.
    Also, not all your utilities will be untouched. You will most likely have used your elite, be it strength of the pack or OWP as well as quickening zephyr, for your burst. If you're running sic 'em that's another utility used too, leaving only your heal and third utility.
    Even more so on a dps build you can't realistically use WHaO because then you have zero condi cleanse :v

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2018

    @ChartFish.1308 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    guess what, all your utilities, healing, stunbreaks, elite are still there untouched.
    You are saying after pressing 3 buttons and failing the combo ranger is crazy weak and vulnerable with all the cd ON. This makes me laugh to be honest.

    I didnt say that lmao. I just said it's weaker in melee, not helpless.
    Also, not all your utilities will be untouched. You will most likely have used your elite, be it strength of the pack or OWP as well as quickening zephyr, for your burst. If you're running sic 'em that's another utility used too, leaving only your heal and third utility.
    Even more so on a dps build you can't realistically use WHaO because then you have zero condi cleanse :v

    and then one of the many, many, many, many, many condi mirages will sneeze on you by accident and you're dead.... But warriors/Guardians handle them pretty easy right?

    Almost as if it's a game of rock paper scissors lmao

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • ChartFish.1308ChartFish.1308 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2018

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    and then one of the many, many, many, many, many condi mirages will sneeze on you by accident and you're dead.... But warriors/Guardians handle them pretty easy right?

    Almost as if it's a game of rock paper scissors lmao

    Warriors have lots of resistance, but once that runs out they have trouble with mirage too. Guardian on the other hand, especially medi guards, have often a full bar of meditations that all remove like 2 conditions on use. So yeah. It gets pretty easy then.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @ChartFish.1308 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    guess what, all your utilities, healing, stunbreaks, elite are still there untouched.
    You are saying after pressing 3 buttons and failing the combo ranger is crazy weak and vulnerable with all the cd ON. This makes me laugh to be honest.

    I didnt say that lmao. I just said it's weaker in melee, not helpless.
    Also, not all your utilities will be untouched. You will most likely have used your elite, be it strength of the pack or OWP as well as quickening zephyr, for your burst. If you're running sic 'em that's another utility used too, leaving only your heal and third utility.
    Even more so on a dps build you can't realistically use WHaO because then you have zero condi cleanse :v

    and then one of the many, many, many, many, many condi mirages will sneeze on you by accident and you're dead.... But warriors/Guardians handle them pretty easy right?

    Almost as if it's a game of rock paper scissors lmao

    Yeah, but soulbeast right now is at the same level of power and condi mirage in terms of cheesy roaming.

    But yeah now you two are ranger mains defending your profession without accepting a critique which has a sense, the only thing you said is: "and then one of the many, many, many, many, many condi mirages will sneeze on you by accident and you're dead".
    So because you have one counter (which counters every single profession in the game) so your profession is bad?

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    Chartfish gave a realistic situation and yet there's more to argue but what's worse is that now you're mentioning unrealistic situations like not building full glass but still being able to 3 hit people by using a knock back, rapid fire and hunters arrow all while maintaining a balanced sustain?

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Soulbeast_-Sic%27Em_Roamer

    Actually this is the baseline of all soulbeast roamers out there. An unrealistic situation not building full glass, makes me laugh.
    That build probably has 10% maybe 15% less damage than full zerk, but in a build which can 100-0 an opponent with all the buffs you manage to use it is an irrelevant damage loss. Instead of critting 30k with world impact you crit 25-27k... What a loss of damage considering the medium health of all profession is around 20k health xD.
    Now say world impact is easy to dodge yada yada yada, this is true but you don't have only that skill combos, and sometimes even autos can crit up to 3k-4k even on tankier targets.

    Think I'm going to dip out of this one.

    Yeah, the best thing you can do since you are offering nothing but keep defending your profession no matter what.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    ranger is quite alright but dueling is not its biggest strength. sure you want to stay at range against melee enemies but once that gap closes it becomes more difficult.

    you're more likely to hit your bursts in a +1 situation, in smaller groups where the focus is not on you. lb 4+2 and sb smokescale combo are serious killers.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hahaha. We are now OP and should be nerfed, right?

  • mulzi.8273mulzi.8273 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dami.5046 said:
    Hahaha. We are now OP and should be nerfed, right?

    Using Anet logic, they will combat this by buffing Mesmer.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ChartFish.1308 said:
    Ranger has many counters. Warriors, power revenants, condi/power thieves (sword in particular), engi, mesmer etc. Basically professions that can reliably catch up, cc and burst out high sustained damage.
    Ranger is not bad. It's in a ok-spot. If it's so OP, how come it's not meta. It barely even makes the small-scale roaming list.

    Power revenant counters soulbeast haha what a joke, joke even harder is engi countering soulbeast xD

    Engi (Holo) It's countered since always by 1. Condi classes, especially necro, 2. Ranged pressure aka Rangers.
    With the toss elixir u change only shield is left for engi to deal with range, and that's not a counter but an active defense which is different.

    In any MMO the ranger counters the melee warrior fighter class, this is not an exception, so you even counters warriors because you kite a warrior for days if you play right.
    If you are killed by a warrior you are just got outplayed and that's your fault.

    Sword thief got nerfed and I think it's a fair fight, definitely thief doesn't counter rangers at all, if you camp longbow you are actually the counter to thief who can't use sword2 as they want to, since you constantly pressure them from 1500 range. In an open field they have zero chances, in a field full of trees and upper/lower levels thief have an advantage.
    Condi thief not sure, but yeah since that build seems so low on condi cleanses probably counters you tho.

    Mesmer... let's see, only condi mesmer is probably a threat, power mesmer not so much, if you catch him in the free weak window you do 100-0 to him easily.

    I would love to hear from you why those classes counters you now.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @skystorm.9280 said:
    I was not aware we could stealth and teleport away - where do I learn that skill?

    1200 Gems - available now on the Gem Store 20% off during the Anniversary Sale. I bought 2 because I hate cooldowns.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @ChartFish.1308 said:
    Ranger has many counters. Warriors, power revenants, condi/power thieves (sword in particular), engi, mesmer etc. Basically professions that can reliably catch up, cc and burst out high sustained damage.
    Ranger is not bad. It's in a ok-spot. If it's so OP, how come it's not meta. It barely even makes the small-scale roaming list.

    Power revenant counters soulbeast haha what a joke, joke even harder is engi countering soulbeast xD

    Engi (Holo) It's countered since always by 1. Condi classes, especially necro, 2. Ranged pressure aka Rangers.
    With the toss elixir u change only shield is left for engi to deal with range, and that's not a counter but an active defense which is different.

    In any MMO the ranger counters the melee warrior fighter class, this is not an exception, so you even counters warriors because you kite a warrior for days if you play right.
    If you are killed by a warrior you are just got outplayed and that's your fault.

    Sword thief got nerfed and I think it's a fair fight, definitely thief doesn't counter rangers at all, if you camp longbow you are actually the counter to thief who can't use sword2 as they want to, since you constantly pressure them from 1500 range. In an open field they have zero chances, in a field full of trees and upper/lower levels thief have an advantage.
    Condi thief not sure, but yeah since that build seems so low on condi cleanses probably counters you tho.

    Mesmer... let's see, only condi mesmer is probably a threat, power mesmer not so much, if you catch him in the free weak window you do 100-0 to him easily.

    I would love to hear from you why those classes counters you now.

    Power rev can counter rangers farely well. They have high range CC and a 1200 gap closer. In addition to a plethra of stability, good burst they also have reveal on herald and a strong heal that makes rapid fire useless.
    Ofc it depends on the skill of the rev.
    Warriors can counter rangers and vice versa. Also this depends on skill.
    Sword thief counters ranger fairly well as long as they try to pewpew them they will have a thief faster in their face as they like.
    Thief can be countered by a ranger too if they time the reveal right but also this depends on skill.
    Mesmer can kill a ranger pretty fast in a 1v1 if not on an open plain. In close quarters a mirage is a dethscentence for a average soulbeast.

    Ofc i agree that pewpew one shot ranger is cheesy and not really engaging gameplay but pewpew rangers have always been cheesy in any iteration. They can be countered if you know how. CC and gap closing is the key. Rangers are somewhat of a noobfilter fue to the fact that they kill a plethra of unexperienced players.
    Sure you have a vast disadvantage if your profession is countered by ranger heavily and you do not want to change profession just for the sake of meta and i can understand your grief, but a pls nerf is OP argument isnt really helping either. Its not a constructive critisism, its postmodern complaining.

    Saying sonething like: Move the unblockable from Call if the Wild to Hunters Call and make Hinters Call requiring a target, would be a valid suggestion for example. It reduces the time unblockables can be stacked at max range without reducing the unblockable availability. This way the ranger needs to come closer for dmg and takes a higher risk for more reward.

    I am main ranger since launch and i can understand the motives behind your complain. But pure nerf isnt going to change much. Rangers will even more camp range and annoy you from afar if you strip the dmg, instead give the optimal playstyle a shift so rangers need to close in before taking full ranged advantage, its easier to counter and would need more skilled gameplay but wouldnt reduce the potency.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What the OP says holds a bit of merit. Druids are doing exceptionally well in WvW. saw a few of these in the last month or so is that it took multiple people to down it due to the condi clears and going to near 100% hp when uses CA. Fairly decent damage and great survivability. I know that CA skills were nerfed a bit over time (as I mained druid in WvW for a long time), however i dont know what happened as they appear to have become better

    Soulbeast. The biggest thing with soulbeast is the Worldly Impact damage needs to be toned down imo. Takes very little to get off a 10k - 15k hit (and before you get your knickers in a twist, I believe other abilities that can do this damage needs toned down a bit as well, even if its a class I play). This is really the only thing I would tweak on Soulbeast.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2018

    There was a surprising number of responses. What I said was just an opinion because almost every ranger I've seen always targets me and only me as a warrior and if it isn't ranger it's thief or occasionally mesmer. This is of course applicable to WvW, and I realized that there was only one to two ranger and thief combo practically pin sniping me the entire week. It turns out those rangers were in fact professional players in spvp.

    The only thing is that I felt they had too much of an advantage when they can simply just LB3 and use GS to get out of a losing advantage in a mere two seconds and get a whopping range of 2500 yards away from you, it takes 2 people not one at that point to kill the ranger! Because of this they always just return and end up healing and LB2 you to death. It's also absurd how the greatsword bear skill just chews past all the armor, it's as if it just ignores armor altogether. I'm not saying to render ranger useless I'm just saying to tone down these crazy numbers they're getting in wvw.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @ChartFish.1308 said:
    Ranger has many counters. Warriors, power revenants, condi/power thieves (sword in particular), engi, mesmer etc. Basically professions that can reliably catch up, cc and burst out high sustained damage.
    Ranger is not bad. It's in a ok-spot. If it's so OP, how come it's not meta. It barely even makes the small-scale roaming list.

    Power revenant counters soulbeast haha what a joke, joke even harder is engi countering soulbeast xD

    Engi (Holo) It's countered since always by 1. Condi classes, especially necro, 2. Ranged pressure aka Rangers.
    With the toss elixir u change only shield is left for engi to deal with range, and that's not a counter but an active defense which is different.

    In any MMO the ranger counters the melee warrior fighter class, this is not an exception, so you even counters warriors because you kite a warrior for days if you play right.
    If you are killed by a warrior you are just got outplayed and that's your fault.

    Sword thief got nerfed and I think it's a fair fight, definitely thief doesn't counter rangers at all, if you camp longbow you are actually the counter to thief who can't use sword2 as they want to, since you constantly pressure them from 1500 range. In an open field they have zero chances, in a field full of trees and upper/lower levels thief have an advantage.
    Condi thief not sure, but yeah since that build seems so low on condi cleanses probably counters you tho.

    Mesmer... let's see, only condi mesmer is probably a threat, power mesmer not so much, if you catch him in the free weak window you do 100-0 to him easily.

    I would love to hear from you why those classes counters you now.

    Power rev can counter rangers farely well. They have high range CC and a 1200 gap closer. In addition to a plethra of stability, good burst they also have reveal on herald and a strong heal that makes rapid fire useless.
    Ofc it depends on the skill of the rev.

    Hmmm. Remind me please this high range CC that rev has? Plethra of stability? Rev? Nobody runs retribution traitline, so the stability we have is, wait... ZERO stab.
    We have a 1200 gap closer which can be dodged and it's heavy energy cost. Both the elites in shiro and glint are crazy easy to dodge or avoid. Shiro elite is almost never used, if it fails, you pretty much die because drained all your energy completely.

    Glint heal works on bad players and on not interruptable skills, so the enemy attacks you and can't stop that attack, so you pop heal and refull, otherwise it's pretty easy to counter and make it the worse heal in the game. The line between full heal and trash heal is so subtle with that healing skill.

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_Shiro_Roamer

    The baseline everybody runs, please enlight me about the high range CC and the plethra of stab thanks :D

    I am main ranger since launch and i can understand the motives behind your complain. But pure nerf isnt going to change much. Rangers will even more camp range and annoy you from afar if you strip the dmg, instead give the optimal playstyle a shift so rangers need to close in before taking full ranged advantage, its easier to counter and would need more skilled gameplay but wouldnt reduce the potency.

    Don't take it as an attack, but i never proposed nerfs from what i remember, I am not good enough to say what should be changed and what not, but i simply showed how, in my opinion, and in the opinion of many people, soulbeast in roaming is overperforming same level as mirage and spellbreaker, and it's low risk high reward, everybody who disagree is probably a ranger main or a fool. I repeat how a 3 buttons combo pulled from 1200+ range without much effort is skill based.
    Oneshot power mesmer to use his combo use quite a bit of skills and he fails he has to retreat and chain invulns or die.
    If you fail the pewpew combo on soulbeast, you still have 90% of your skills and traits active, the enemy already used 2 dodges, one stunbreak, a gap closer, probably healing skill as well, your skills are instead untouched and you can defend yourself immediately having full dodges, healing skill ready, pet for stealth ready, elite ready for stab so you don't get CC, stunbreaks if you end up CC. This build has everything called low risk high reward. Agree or disagree this is just the truth.
    I didn't propose nerf because it's hard to balance a profession without destroy it completely.

    Maybe soulbeast having only one pet and reduce the unblockables from 4 to 2 seconds, so you have to plan it better when to use it, not sure.

  • ChartFish.1308ChartFish.1308 Member ✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Hmmm. Remind me please this high range CC that rev has? Plethra of stability? Rev? Nobody runs retribution traitline, so the stability we have is, wait... ZERO stab.
    We have a 1200 gap closer which can be dodged and it's heavy energy cost. Both the elites in shiro and glint are crazy easy to dodge or avoid. Shiro elite is almost never used, if it fails, you pretty much die because drained all your energy completely.

    Suddenly it's turned around. See how easy that is, mention that someones class is strong at something and mains come to its defence. No worries, we all do it. You wont be an exception.
    CC: shiro elite, glint elite, staff 5, staff 2, sword 4 (soft cc), axe 5, dwarf chains (taunt is still cc), centaur elite. Those just the top of my head. That's already a good five CCs that can be put in one build.
    I'm sad to have to agree with you, but yes reve has little in terms of stab.
    1200 closer can be dodged, yes... but you'll still teleport. You just miss the strike. It still counts as a gap closer.

    You can super easily bait dodges with shiro/glint elite too. Just stow weapons. Ezpz.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @""whoknocks.4935"

    Well i ran a shiro/Jalis hammer sword build in WvW which was rather offmeta.
    It was pretty bad against necros, holos, warriors and mesmers but it performed quiet well against rangers, thiefs and even guards. As you see it is not the best build but as it seems more effective against rangers as the meta one.
    I ran a rather high percentage of toughness which is why i havent perceived ranger pewpew as bad as others might do, i can only tell from my personal experience that i didnt had any troubles against rangers except on open areas on grassland where i tried to seek cover.

    I may add that i play mainly PvE and very rarely WvW or 2v2s in unranked for fun.
    So i can say that i am not as representitive for that case what i can admit.

    Glint heal does work on bad players indeed, which is a fair point. Although there are more bad pewpewers than you think.

    I also agree with you that LB gamestyle is boring and low effort, but i wouldnt call it toxic by far. Its rather annoying to play against but not difficult to exploit, IF (and thats sadly a big if) you have the right profession to play against.

    Unblockables have no counter play atm except dmg immunity and evade frames So skills with evade frames, dmg immunities and dodges are the main way to get to the ranger.

    As you may noticed i am a fairly civil person and dont worry i did not take your reaction and or any sentences as an attack.
    You are de facto correct that you did not spoke out any nerfs as far as i have seen but you tended toward the corresponding reaction although you didnt expressed that verbally.

    To speak about healthy changes: Rangers should be encouraged to go in and out of range to get a decent advantage.
    The main point why soulbeast can stack so many unblockables are due to the fact that unstoppavle union, call of the wild and signet of the hunt can be triggered back to back.
    With my proposed change, the ranger needs to get closer to the target to pull of this full duration.

    To go back towards some of your proposals.
    The proposal of soulbeast only getting one pet has been made multiple times. It would have been a better initial design IMO and would have been a great replacement for Petswap. It could have interacted thus more with the traits. But removing it would be like taking away weaponswap for guardians when they spec into firebrand. No one would have bat an eye if this would have been the initial design but now it would just create an utter outcry of anger and frustration.
    First and foremost i think they could shave the power aspect of Sbeast a bit but they HAVE to compensate for that, otherwise it wouldnt be really justified. Like improving both daggers, improve Shortbow range or give pets more utility, so you have another option except SS.
    Ranger has 1-2 working roaming builds, one is cheesy and the good old classic pewpew ranger and one is heavy on boons but also relies on power. Killing the power would kill both builds at once and thus kill WvW roaming for rangers.
    Thats basically the reason why you were greated so "friendly" after your first couple of responses.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ChartFish.1308 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Hmmm. Remind me please this high range CC that rev has? Plethra of stability? Rev? Nobody runs retribution traitline, so the stability we have is, wait... ZERO stab.
    We have a 1200 gap closer which can be dodged and it's heavy energy cost. Both the elites in shiro and glint are crazy easy to dodge or avoid. Shiro elite is almost never used, if it fails, you pretty much die because drained all your energy completely.

    Suddenly it's turned around. See how easy that is, mention that someones class is strong at something and mains come to its defence. No worries, we all do it. You wont be an exception.
    CC: shiro elite, glint elite, staff 5, staff 2, sword 4 (soft cc), axe 5, dwarf chains (taunt is still cc), centaur elite. Those just the top of my head. That's already a good five CCs that can be put in one build.

    You can super easily bait dodges with shiro/glint elite too. Just stow weapons. Ezpz.

    I am not even revenant main mate haha It's not yet a full day I am playing it, but I know his skills.

    -Shiro elite: never or almost never used due to it's crazy energy cost, good on bad opponents only.
    -Glint elite: blockable, easy to dodge. Baiting the skill will actually put the skill on Upkeep, consuming quite a bit of energy, and baiting skills is part of being a good player.
    -Staff2: It hits hard and stuns, but it's a CHAIN skill, only the second part hits hard and daze, very unreliable to pull it off in practice, if you try yourself you see.
    -Staff5: Yeah this is a MUST dodge skills and easy to dodge unless you are that dumb to stay attached to the rev's body and don't see it coming.
    -Sword4: Hits very hard but you must have line of sight with the target, even a 90 degree orientation will hit for zero damage in the air, you see the animation hitting nothing, not that easy to pull off like people think.
    -Axe5: Axe is seldom used and this skill is the slowest CC skills in the game, don't you see the red crater on the ground? Just dodge it tho.
    -Dwarf: Yeah dwarf is op and meta used by everyone. Kappa.
    -Centaur elite: Look above.

    I'm sad to have to agree with you, but yes reve has little in terms of stab.

    If you don't run retribution, giving up lot and lot of damage, it's not little, it's ZERO stab.

    1200 closer can be dodged, yes... but you'll still teleport. You just miss the strike. It still counts as a gap closer.

    Sword5 and staff5 are the only mobility skills rev has, if you remove the 1200 range gap closer what a rev is supposed to do against rangers which are already a big threat to rev? Watch them pewpew from 1500 and use staff5(600 range) plus sword5(600 range) just to get closer and wasting 2 important skills just for mobility?

    It's the same reason why guardian can't get rid of judge's intervention.

    Revenant has "forced" skills, if you go shiro you have that 5 skills, can't change them, now that Impossible Odds doesn't give quickness anymore it's become a pretty dead skill you have to run forcely, I bet you don't have a dead skill in your skillbar do you?

    And note this is said by a NOT Revenant main, and when I get killed by a good revenant I know how much effort it takes to play it, one of the hardest specs in the game to master.
    You can't say the same for soulbeast I'm sorry. I tried both recently... the skill level difference is huge.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You must be talking about druid in which case they don't hit like a truck but are annoying to fight. Soulbeast hits harder but it's still laughable how little damage they do to a tanky target.

    Also, WvW isn't about 1v1. Sure we can do it there, but the game isn't built around 1v1 encounters

  • Prophet.1584Prophet.1584 Member ✭✭✭

    zerk ranger too OP, FML..... L2P

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2018

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @ChartFish.1308 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    guess what, all your utilities, healing, stunbreaks, elite are still there untouched.
    You are saying after pressing 3 buttons and failing the combo ranger is crazy weak and vulnerable with all the cd ON. This makes me laugh to be honest.

    I didnt say that lmao. I just said it's weaker in melee, not helpless.
    Also, not all your utilities will be untouched. You will most likely have used your elite, be it strength of the pack or OWP as well as quickening zephyr, for your burst. If you're running sic 'em that's another utility used too, leaving only your heal and third utility.
    Even more so on a dps build you can't realistically use WHaO because then you have zero condi cleanse :v

    and then one of the many, many, many, many, many condi mirages will sneeze on you by accident and you're dead.... But warriors/Guardians handle them pretty easy right?

    Almost as if it's a game of rock paper scissors lmao

    Yeah, but soulbeast right now is at the same level of power and condi mirage in terms of cheesy roaming.

    But yeah now you two are ranger mains defending your profession without accepting a critique which has a sense, the only thing you said is: "and then one of the many, many, many, many, many condi mirages will sneeze on you by accident and you're dead".
    So because you have one counter (which counters every single profession in the game) so your profession is bad?

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    Chartfish gave a realistic situation and yet there's more to argue but what's worse is that now you're mentioning unrealistic situations like not building full glass but still being able to 3 hit people by using a knock back, rapid fire and hunters arrow all while maintaining a balanced sustain?

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Soulbeast_-Sic%27Em_Roamer

    Actually this is the baseline of all soulbeast roamers out there. An unrealistic situation not building full glass, makes me laugh.
    That build probably has 10% maybe 15% less damage than full zerk, but in a build which can 100-0 an opponent with all the buffs you manage to use it is an irrelevant damage loss. Instead of critting 30k with world impact you crit 25-27k... What a loss of damage considering the medium health of all profession is around 20k health xD.
    Now say world impact is easy to dodge yada yada yada, this is true but you don't have only that skill combos, and sometimes even autos can crit up to 3k-4k even on tankier targets.

    Think I'm going to dip out of this one.

    Yeah, the best thing you can do since you are offering nothing but keep defending your profession no matter what.

    I have 31 toons but only 2 rangers so your assumptions are wrong again LOL.

    I do how ever have about 6 elementalists, 6 Necro's, 5 Mesmers, and 6 guards, so I'm betting one of those would be considered my main and on those 4 professions have over 1k PvP wins each compared to my Ranger who hasn't even earned the champion title yet after 6 years.

    So yea I'm dipping out of this one, you're just posting crazy accusations and ramblings that lack scope and focus, first this is the issue then it's that then 3 skills can kill but then it's not the 3 skills you mentioned, I dunno, can't keep up with it..

    I really hate to say this because it sounds degrading, but this is a L2P situation and it says volumes Anet moved this thread out of the WvW subforum lmao

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • @Aridon.8362 said:
    It is too hard to kill a ranger, they get too many invulns dodging and stealth and hit like a truck. I block, and they pierce through my shield, I cripple, and they stealth and teleport away, I activate my invuln yet somehow the skill bugs out and allows me to still take physical damage enough is enough my dude. They need a nerf as they have a serious advantage in the roaming scene. I switch to full toughness armor and that bear greatsword skill chomped all of my hp and I'm still questioning how that even happens.

    From what I've seen as of late there is some things that do need to be tuned possibly, but if we're speaking of rangers as just a roaming class even with the cheesy builds on soulbeast I guess. It's not really anything I would call op once you realize what people are trying to use in my own opinion of course. I'm sure it's already been recommended somewhere here but it might be an idea to experiment with the cheese other players are throwing at you by messing with the class yourself, personally I used to have a lot of trouble with mesmers and still do depending on the match up, but playing the class myself helped with learning tells and such.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2018

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    It is too hard to kill a ranger, they get too many invulns dodging and stealth and hit like a truck. I block, and they pierce through my shield, I cripple, and they stealth and teleport away, I activate my invuln yet somehow the skill bugs out and allows me to still take physical damage enough is enough my dude. They need a nerf as they have a serious advantage in the roaming scene. I switch to full toughness armor and that bear greatsword skill chomped all of my hp and I'm still questioning how that even happens.

    So you never asked yourself how you can improve? Or questioned that maybe the ranger had superior skills compared to yours?

    I get that losing isn’t always fun, but instead of putting blame on some other profession, why not take a look at yourself, your build, your mistakes... and focus on learning.

    Everybody has been beaten up in wvw and spvp, but the ones who get better are the ones who ask for advice and practice... not the ones who “knee jerk” post on the forums about “op” and “nerf” this and that because they lost...

    I suggest posting your build in the warrior section and ask the community for advice. Should be a good start to handling those ranger encounters better.

  • Lynnie.7213Lynnie.7213 Member ✭✭✭

    Nerf is coming, boys, ... in 1 year.

    DONEE - Youtube
    https://youtube.com/donee

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    ...they get too many invulns dodging and stealth and hit like a truck.

    This isn't the place to complain about Spellbreakers

    and here I thought it was a daredevil or mesmer

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2018

    People keep saying it's a L2P issue, I bet none of you have actually 1v1ed a ranger that actually does a lot of roaming. I know a skilled player when I see one and I can tell already from these comments that alot of you don't actually fit the bill. And those that actually are skilled actually agree with me to an extent.

    The biggest flaw with this thread is that people are actually suggesting to go make a ranger and waste time testing out the cons I pointed out to begin with, but there's not actually a need to do so when there is a literal tab for combat logging. It's actually very easy to play ranger compared to warrior (and yes I used to main one back before Hot), I've spent hours throughout the day just looking around for small brawls and 1v1 fights and the biggest class that gives nobody a chance to do anything is in fact the SKILLED ranger in WvW. Just a while back today those two rangers I mentioned previously had wiped out a group of 6 players right in front of me. 6 and they did it by running away and using skills that give an excessive amount of range to an advantage every single time or using the signet skill to proc invuln so they can sneak the greatsword bear maul skill that chews their hip like b cutting through butter. If you can't win against everything in WvW as a ranger 1v1, then you are an unskilled ranger.

    Honestly this isn't that big of a deal to me, and I will never see it as an important issue because of the mere fact that wvw isn't about 1v1s and in spvp for some reason every ranger just pretty much sucks these days. I see them as easy prey in spvp and I'm certain a lot of other people do as well.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    ...they get too many invulns dodging and stealth and hit like a truck.

    This isn't the place to complain about Spellbreakers

    and here I thought it was a daredevil or mesmer

    Constructive posts by you. All you did was defending ranger and attacking me. So yeah better you just dip off.
    I never called soulbeast overpowered and called for huge nerfs.
    I just called it cheesy, and together with mirage and spellbreaker it's the new easy mode roaming spec.
    Lately I am encountering 10 times more soulbeasts than before, must mean something don't you think? And this is just a fact since I am not the only one who noticed this.
    Many many of players trying it for the first time even in small scale groups and having great success with it.
    Easy to play, low risk and high rewarding, going full zerk same core warrior doesn't have an impact like going full zerk on a guardian, which nobody does because with barely 12k hp you die in two skills.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2018

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    ...they get too many invulns dodging and stealth and hit like a truck.

    This isn't the place to complain about Spellbreakers

    and here I thought it was a daredevil or mesmer

    Constructive posts by you. All you did was defending ranger and attacking me. So yeah better you just dip off.
    I never called soulbeast overpowered and called for huge nerfs.
    I just called it cheesy, and together with mirage and spellbreaker it's the new easy mode roaming spec.
    Lately I am encountering 10 times more soulbeasts than before, must mean something don't you think? And this is just a fact since I am not the only one who noticed this.
    Many many of players trying it for the first time even in small scale groups and having great success with it.
    Easy to play, low risk and high rewarding, going full zerk same core warrior doesn't have an impact like going full zerk on a guardian, which nobody does because with barely 12k hp you die in two skills.

    mmk... more assumptions too as I know a few medi trap dhs will happily roll with 12-13k health, Im one of them and on the thread most underrated roaming classes youll see I posted medi trap burst as my number 1 favourite roaming class and build.

    im sorry if you found it offensive of me that I cant understand your unorthodox ramblings but little of what you said is trrue and you base your facts off misguided assumptions, so youre leaving little room for an intelligent conversation which is the foundation of a constructive post.

    tldr: if you say so, best of luck to your future endeavors.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2018

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    and here I thought it was a daredevil or mesmer

    If this means contributing with a constructive post, you have a weird idea of what a constructive post is.

    mmk... more assumptions too as I know a few medi trap dhs will happily roll with 12-13k health, Im one of them and on the thread most underrated roaming classes youll see I posted medi trap burst as my number 1 favourite roaming class and build.

    I would like to see you roaming with 12khp guardian and encounter an unblockable quickness soulbeast which get you from 1500 range, you don't even realize what's going on that you are downed already.
    This proves how little wvw experience you have tho.

    so I'm betting one of those would be considered my main and on those 4 professions have over 1k PvP wins each compared to my Ranger who hasn't even earned the champion title yet after 6 years.

    This post talks of WvW, nothing to do with sPvP, which seems you are more into. If you don't play much WvW you really cannot talk, if you play it casually with weird roaming builds.
    And guardian running 12k hp while roaming is a proof.

    more assumptions too

    I explained already enough what I think of soulbeast, and you couldn't contraddict me at all, just attacked me.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2018

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Lately I am encountering 10 times more soulbeasts than before, must mean something don't you think? And this is just a fact since I am not the only one who noticed this.

    the builds that are played alot in roaming usually are the ones that are against bad players rather good and easy to play. doesnt mean they are good or easy against good players. i mean thats the reason warrior is still roaming so much, because against bad players its good. but most other roamers when they are good on their profession will just destroy a warrior any day.
    would you prefer a balance catering to how a bad player feels when facing the build?

    read this, become a better player now.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.