Ranger is way too strong 1v1 in WvW - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Ranger is way too strong 1v1 in WvW

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  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Lately I am encountering 10 times more soulbeasts than before, must mean something don't you think? And this is just a fact since I am not the only one who noticed this.

    the builds that are played alot in roaming usually are the ones that are against bad players rather good and easy to play. doesnt mean they are good or easy against good players. i mean thats the reason warrior is still roaming so much, because against bad players its good. but most other roamers when they are good on their profession will just destroy a warrior any day.
    would you prefer a balance catering to how a bad player feels when facing the build?

    No man, the builds played a lot in roaming are the cheesy ones with a low risk high reward, usually with high burst without much effort to pull off and with easy escapes. They are effective even on good players. On bad players they are insanely good because usually bad players don't know what to dodge.

    Warrior is very common because it's so easy to pick up and become good at it, and with double endure pain and double stab pulse, shield block, you can afford many many mistakes without getting punished that much. A good player can kite warrior easily and counter him if he knows what he's doing.

    I know you play deadeye from what I've seen, and that's a pretty cheesy roaming spec too. The stupid thing about it it's not the oneshot damage, but the stealth after dodge, it's just a lame mechanic, even if you are skilled you can't interrupt the dodge into stealth, because stealth is applied on dodge, you can't interrupt a dodge, it has no counter at all.
    Daredevil pistol5 dagger2 stealth combo can be interrupted by a good player, deadeye stealth cannot.
    And many people say, just use reveal. And of course deadeye has it's elite removing revealed state and stealth again, it's pretty dumb.

    Those build works with no so much effort, that's why I freak out when a full zerk soulbeast or full zerk warrior/spellbreaker, mirage think they are pro in a 1vs1 scenario.

  • @Aridon.8362 said:
    It is too hard to kill a ranger, they get too many invulns dodging and stealth and hit like a truck. I block, and they pierce through my shield, I cripple, and they stealth and teleport away, I activate my invuln yet somehow the skill bugs out and allows me to still take physical damage enough is enough my dude. They need a nerf as they have a serious advantage in the roaming scene. I switch to full toughness armor and that bear greatsword skill chomped all of my hp and I'm still questioning how that even happens.

    • Thief has more access to stealth than a Ranger
    • Mesmer has more access to teleport (Ranger cannot teleport except for smokescale and that's offensive not defensive).
    • Warrior has more access to invulnerabilitg than a Ranger
    • Ranger power bursts require a certain amount of setup for full effect and can be predicted

    The Ranger is such a jack of all and master of none yet it sounds like you're just going up against players who have mastered the class.
    The key is to understand that because of their limited access to many things you can bait their stealth and know they cannot stealth again for a few seconds, bait their unlockable and then start blocking yourself. Anticipate the worldly impact once they stealth and focus on timing that one dodge.

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  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2018

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Lately I am encountering 10 times more soulbeasts than before, must mean something don't you think? And this is just a fact since I am not the only one who noticed this.

    the builds that are played alot in roaming usually are the ones that are against bad players rather good and easy to play. doesnt mean they are good or easy against good players. i mean thats the reason warrior is still roaming so much, because against bad players its good. but most other roamers when they are good on their profession will just destroy a warrior any day.
    would you prefer a balance catering to how a bad player feels when facing the build?

    No man, the builds played a lot in roaming are the cheesy ones with a low risk high reward, usually with high burst without much effort to pull off and with easy escapes. They are effective even on good players. On bad players they are insanely good because usually bad players don't know what to dodge.

    Warrior is very common because it's so easy to pick up and become good at it, and with double endure pain and double stab pulse, shield block, you can afford many many mistakes without getting punished that much. A good player can kite warrior easily and counter him if he knows what he's doing.

    I know you play deadeye from what I've seen, and that's a pretty cheesy roaming spec too. The stupid thing about it it's not the oneshot damage, but the stealth after dodge, it's just a lame mechanic, even if you are skilled you can't interrupt the dodge into stealth, because stealth is applied on dodge, you can't interrupt a dodge, it has no counter at all.
    Daredevil pistol5 dagger2 stealth combo can be interrupted by a good player, deadeye stealth cannot.
    And many people say, just use reveal. And of course deadeye has it's elite removing revealed state and stealth again, it's pretty dumb.

    Those build works with no so much effort, that's why I freak out when a full zerk soulbeast or full zerk warrior/spellbreaker, mirage think they are pro in a 1vs1 scenario.

    what i play is completely irrelevant to the topic. because we dont discuss me as a player, we discuss about professions.
    see you dont even disagree warrior is common because it is easy against bad players, but its weak against good ones.
    ranger is better against good players, yet when facing a good player as a ranger, you can no longer let the build play for you or you will lose again.
    you are correct that deadeye lacks mostly interaction as it is pushed towards stealth play, yet stealth has a terrible counter in reveal wich counters not just the invisibility but all secondary effects, deadeye needs those secondary effects to work. the invisibility is not as important. if you have too much reveal the deadeye is a free kill because he gets stripped of all secondary effects and if you dont have enough you will lose if you fight. so yeah we need to replace reveal with a different counter to invisibility, just as i described over in the thieves forum. but that again is not part of the discussion.
    i just wanted to point out that popularity highly depends on what is good against the opponents you can expect. if you expect to face rather bad players it would be less efficient to build what is good against good players. as the majority of opponents in WvW are not good, the builds that are popular do not have the focus on being good against good players.

  • Yeah, no. If this was the case there would be more roaming rangers instead of the revenants, mesmers, thieves and holos i constantly die to when running around in tier1.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Etheri.5406 said:
    I'm afraid I cannot post in this thread by @Gaile Gray.6029 's orders.
    The amount of posts here that clearly show players do not know, understand or comprehend their own builds or the ones they're fighting is very large.

    It's impossible to discuss "balance" if you pretend you're fighting a class that isn't limited to a certain BUILD. I can say FB can give every boon in the game except alacrity at 100% uptime, including 25 might, do 2k+ breakbar dmg, heal very well, do 30k+ condi dps and 25k+ power dps. But the truth is it can't ever do all of these things at once.

    Except in WvW or PvP ofcourse. There a holo is a conversion bunker with 5 elixers and 4 exceed skills and arcdpsh4x giving them full zerk, commander and mender at the same time. Where a rev has access to 4 elite skills and a ranger has both 3-5 utility skills used for unblockables and damage modifiers, full zerk and defensive modifiers all at the same time!

    WvW is such a wonderful world. :)
    Before you die, blame the class and come to the forums to talk about balance, go play the class and figure out what it can and cannot do depending on builds. It'll make you a better player (omagod, that's elitist i just wanna play my reapur!). It's not that the meta is balanced, it's that finding a post on these forums that actually accurately describes pvp or wvw balance (much less gives suggestions to IMPROVE it without breaking other modes) is like finding a needle in a haystack. It'd be easier if most users didn't post about things they're not sure of at all.

    PS. If you're a person who takes pride in running their own, amazing special builds and you encounter someone with a build so good they completely slaughter you... consider having a look at the meta build for that gamemode / playstyle on that class. Chances are that... it's exactly that one ;)

    Just for clarification: Are you agreeing with OP or not?

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Etheri.5406 said:
    I'm afraid I cannot post in this thread by @Gaile Gray.6029 's orders.
    The amount of posts here that clearly show players do not know, understand or comprehend their own builds or the ones they're fighting is very large.

    It's impossible to discuss "balance" if you pretend you're fighting a class that isn't limited to a certain BUILD. I can say FB can give every boon in the game except alacrity at 100% uptime, including 25 might, do 2k+ breakbar dmg, heal very well, do 30k+ condi dps and 25k+ power dps. But the truth is it can't ever do all of these things at once.

    Except in WvW or PvP ofcourse. There a holo is a conversion bunker with 5 elixers and 4 exceed skills and arcdpsh4x giving them full zerk, commander and mender at the same time. Where a rev has access to 4 elite skills and a ranger has both 3-5 utility skills used for unblockables and damage modifiers, full zerk and defensive modifiers all at the same time!

    WvW is such a wonderful world. :)
    Before you die, blame the class and come to the forums to talk about balance, go play the class and figure out what it can and cannot do depending on builds. It'll make you a better player (omagod, that's elitist i just wanna play my reapur!). It's not that the meta is balanced, it's that finding a post on these forums that actually accurately describes pvp or wvw balance (much less gives suggestions to IMPROVE it without breaking other modes) is like finding a needle in a haystack. It'd be easier if most users didn't post about things they're not sure of at all.

    PS. If you're a person who takes pride in running their own, amazing special builds and you encounter someone with a build so good they completely slaughter you... consider having a look at the meta build for that gamemode / playstyle on that class. Chances are that... it's exactly that one ;)

    Just for clarification: Are you agreeing with OP or not?

    For 1v1 / duelling or small group roaming, not at all. Freely around the map in a vacuum, they still have strong kite but that's rather standard for roaming builds. It's strong, but not super OP.

    For free for all ganking while hugging the safety of objectives and groups, ranger is very safe for how strong it is. They have a lot more freedom in pressuring players and choosing fights than classes like warrior / rev / guardian / ele / ... These need to put themselves at risk a lot more in order to pressure or kill someone a lot more than rangers do. There risk / reward doesn't add up.

  • Lynnie.7213Lynnie.7213 Member ✭✭✭

    We are confirmed broken. I've been getting a lot of those lately in WvW. Worst part is that came from another ranger.

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  • kappa.2036kappa.2036 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    It is too hard to kill a ranger, they get too many invulns dodging and stealth and hit like a truck. I block, and they pierce through my shield, I cripple, and they stealth and teleport away, I activate my invuln yet somehow the skill bugs out and allows me to still take physical damage enough is enough my dude. They need a nerf as they have a serious advantage in the roaming scene. I switch to full toughness armor and that bear greatsword skill chomped all of my hp and I'm still questioning how that even happens.

    • Endure Pain (5 s) + Defy Pain (5 s) = 10 sec total damage immunity
    • Balanced Stance (5 s) + Lesser Balanced Stance (5 s) = 10 sec immunity to critical hits
    • Full Counter: 1/2 s evade
    • 2 dodges (3 dodges with Energy sigil)

    As you can see, you have plenty of tools to be immune to power type-damage if you play warrior, even without blocks.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2018

    @kappa.2036 said:

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    It is too hard to kill a ranger, they get too many invulns dodging and stealth and hit like a truck. I block, and they pierce through my shield, I cripple, and they stealth and teleport away, I activate my invuln yet somehow the skill bugs out and allows me to still take physical damage enough is enough my dude. They need a nerf as they have a serious advantage in the roaming scene. I switch to full toughness armor and that bear greatsword skill chomped all of my hp and I'm still questioning how that even happens.

    • Endure Pain (5 s) + Defy Pain (5 s) = 10 sec total damage immunity
    • Balanced Stance (5 s) + Lesser Balanced Stance (5 s) = 10 sec immunity to critical hits
    • Full Counter: 1/2 s evade
    • 2 dodges (3 dodges with Energy sigil)

    As you can see, you have plenty of tools to be immune to power type-damage if you play warrior, even without blocks.

    You act like I don't know about those skills and traits, condescending and stating the obvious. Skilled fights take much longer than everything you just mentioned. Like I said inexperienced talking L2P.

  • Obligatory I died in a PvP / WvW zone! PLEASE NERF WHATEVER KILLED ME. I'm too good of a player to possibly ever die! SO THEY MUST BE OP! NERF THEM!

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    People keep saying it's a L2P issue, I bet none of you have actually 1v1ed a ranger that actually does a lot of roaming. I know a skilled player when I see one and I can tell already from these comments that alot of you don't actually fit the bill. And those that actually are skilled actually agree with me to an extent.

    The biggest flaw with this thread is that people are actually suggesting to go make a ranger and waste time testing out the cons I pointed out to begin with, but there's not actually a need to do so when there is a literal tab for combat logging. It's actually very easy to play ranger compared to warrior (and yes I used to main one back before Hot), I've spent hours throughout the day just looking around for small brawls and 1v1 fights and the biggest class that gives nobody a chance to do anything is in fact the SKILLED ranger in WvW. Just a while back today those two rangers I mentioned previously had wiped out a group of 6 players right in front of me. 6 and they did it by running away and using skills that give an excessive amount of range to an advantage every single time or using the signet skill to proc invuln so they can sneak the greatsword bear maul skill that chews their hip like b cutting through butter. If you can't win against everything in WvW as a ranger 1v1, then you are an unskilled ranger.

    Honestly this isn't that big of a deal to me, and I will never see it as an important issue because of the mere fact that wvw isn't about 1v1s and in spvp for some reason every ranger just pretty much sucks these days. I see them as easy prey in spvp and I'm certain a lot of other people do as well.

    So rangers are “easy prey” for you in spvp, but a problem for you in wvw... That’s a personal problem then.... Unlike in spvp, a good roamer in wvw isn’t going to stand and fight honorably in a little circle while getting smashed... You’re getting out-played, so take your losses as a learning experience.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    Ohai more baseless assumptions....
    im over 3k rank from roaming and havok groups lol and for the situatuon you described, I use judges intervention in the middle of using whirling wrath or sword teleport and pick up my free loot bag... I believe other users posted similar ways to help you deal with Rangers that you ignored but I'll happily post some more for you as you seem to have a huge issue with Soulbeasts and longbow: These are generic ideas that any class could use, you can get more creative depending on your class.

    • Dodge the rapid fire
    • Have a passive stun break so knock back shot doesn't effect you or use stability.
    • Use gap closers
    • Run through the character using rapid fire to cancel the skill out
    • When they land Hunters shot, count to 2 and dodge. If you're on Australian net like I am, count to 1 and dodge.
    • Don't stand in Barrage
    • Gap closers or move closer to them so the long range shot doesn't hit as hard.
    • When in melee range, don't attack the block because that's part of the set up.
    • If you see a giant bear go "ROOOOOOOAR", usually that's a good time to dodge as they are trying to set up the burst from the extra damage you get from maul.

    I appreciate the feedback even if it's pretty aggressive tho (the second part, but i'll ignore it), I don't know why you can't answer in a moderate manner, but okay.

    • Dodge the rapid fire

    If you didn't get surprised by it and you know it's coming I don't know if one dodge is enough to cover all the skill duration, usually have to chain an evade with it, "wasting already one dodge plus something else, another dodge or evade frame skill.

    • Have a passive stun break so knock back shot doesn't effect you or use stability.

    Not every class is carried like warrior by 2 insane passives, for example playing revenant I have zero passives. So it's either dodge it, which is not the easiest thing in the world due to it's animation very fast and without much tells; what remains is stunbreak out of it using an active skill.

    • Use gap closers

    Fair enough, you must use those.
    Let's sum it up 2 seconds: Ranger at 1200-1500 range used 2 skills (3 if they popped unblockables too); You used: 1 to 2 dodges, an evade frame skill, an active or passive stunbreak, a gap closer skill.

    • Run through the character using rapid fire to cancel the skill out (?)

    Hmmm not sure about this, running through? You mean walking in the direction of the ranger? I doubt this will cancel the skill, you still get hit by the projectiles. But I might be wrong, so I leave a question mark.

    • When they land Hunters shot, count to 2 and dodge. If you're on Australian net like I am, count to 1 and dodge.

    Pretty random tactic against stealth, you might get lucky and dodge perfectly the incoming stealth attack or unlucky and waste a dodge.

    • Don't stand in Barrage

    Nothing to say here, but usually you have to either dodge out of it or evade it somehow to avoid cripple, or you get the cripple to cleanse it immediately afterwards.

    • Gap closers or move closer to them so the long range shot doesn't hit as hard.

    Look above.

    • When in melee range, don't attack the block because that's part of the set up.

    True, unless you have an unblockable CC.

    • If you see a giant bear go "ROOOOOOOAR", usually that's a good time to dodge as they are trying to set up the burst from the extra damage you get from maul.

    Another melee skill to dodge.

    You forgot the soulbeast shadowstep ability into knockdown into worldly impact which requires other 2 dodges or block if the ranger doesn't have unblockables up.

    Soulbeast has constant pressure both ranged and melee, and I repeat, running full zerk or marauder/zerk it's not that big malus and you can get away with it.
    Some soulbeasts go full melee Gs + Sword/Axe and you easily handle many 2vs1 and have the mobility to escape pretty easily.

    "3 skills will kill everyone its op so nerf"

    I don't remember I ever said "it's op so nerf". I said and I repeat: super low risk, high reward build, and that's why it's so abused lately, no difference from mirages and spellbreakers. That's all.

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935
    Soulbeast has to use its elite (OWP or SotP) and typically one or two utilities (usually QZ and/or Sic 'Em) to do a strong enough burst with Rapid Fire to put an enemy at risk of going down from the opening burst. Their heal (WHaO) might also be used for might stacking. Unblockable if used will come from merging for UO, warhorn's CotW while merged, or the signet. Avoid the Rapid Fire and any soulbeast built to burst with longbow will have much of its bar on cooldown.

    Also, if you move through a soulbeast's body (their hitbox basically) during Rapid Fire, the skill will cancel instead of finishing because it's channeled and requires its target to be in front of the soulbeast.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Also, if you move through a soulbeast's body (their hitbox basically) during Rapid Fire, the skill will cancel instead of finishing because it's channeled and requires its target to be in front of the soulbeast.

    Which ranger cast rapid fire that close melee range that you can pass through their hitbox realistically?

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2018

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Also, if you move through a soulbeast's body (their hitbox basically) during Rapid Fire, the skill will cancel instead of finishing because it's channeled and requires its target to be in front of the soulbeast.

    Which ranger cast rapid fire that close melee range that you can pass through their hitbox realistically?

    by using something like judges intervention and running strait through them...

    as to your quote on me, you said that a knock back shot, rapid fire and hunters shot is enough kill, this being a 1v1 thread it should be obvious to dodge said set up. As others pointed out too, to pull off something like that would require you to use your whole skill bar to set that damage up which would leave a sitting duck and open food for anyone who bothered to dodge once....

    this is where the confusion comes in because you start to claim that a ranger can do that without using any set up or using berserkery gear.

    the only times you really die to a ranger one on one is purely because they are more skilled than you or because they caught you with your pants down so to speak.

    I get that I came across a bit gnarky im sorry for that but I wonder if you would be too if you had all those accusations and assumptions thrown at you instead.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
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  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Also, if you move through a soulbeast's body (their hitbox basically) during Rapid Fire, the skill will cancel instead of finishing because it's channeled and requires its target to be in front of the soulbeast.

    Which ranger cast rapid fire that close melee range that you can pass through their hitbox realistically?

    by using something like judges intervention and running strait through them...

    as to your quote on me, you said that a knock back shot, rapid fire and hunters shot is enough kill, this being a 1v1 thread it should be obvious to dodge said set up. As others pointed out too, to pull off something like that would require you to use your whole skill bar to set that damage up which would leave a sitting duck and open food for anyone who bothered to dodge once....

    this is where the confusion comes in because you start to claim that a ranger can do that without using any set up or using berserkery gear.

    the only times you really die to a ranger one on one is purely because they are more skilled than you or because they caught you with your pants down so to speak.

    I get that I came across a bit gnarky im sorry for that but I wonder if you would be too if you had all those accusations and assumptions thrown at you instead.

    The time you use judge's intervention, rapid fire is already finished, soulbeast is probably stealthed already, or with longbow stealth or with pet stealth.
    The tactic to cancel the rapid fire animation is the most useless thing I've ever heard.

    If you are a decent soulbeast player you don't waste all your cooldowns on a combo which has a chance to fail, that's dumb.
    Why use elite, healing skill, sic'em, soulbeast mode, at 1500 range when you are at safety risking to fail it?

    Soulbest mode for unblockables, longbow knockback plus rapid fire is already a pretty high damage combo even without the buffs and without using healing, elite etc., and if it fails you still have plenty of comebacks.

    Of course if you waste all your skills and fail, if then that guy gap close in melee range you are screwed and die in 3 skills xD You have nothing left to use.

    It's like if a spellbreaker pops berserker stance, endure pain and balanced stance immediately at the beginning of the fight and then remains with nothing left to use and die lol.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Also, if you move through a soulbeast's body (their hitbox basically) during Rapid Fire, the skill will cancel instead of finishing because it's channeled and requires its target to be in front of the soulbeast.

    Which ranger cast rapid fire that close melee range that you can pass through their hitbox realistically?

    maybe not move but teleport, i canceled a soulbeasts rapidfire yesterday with a shadowstep through them.

    as now several times the point was made that moving through the soulbeast cancels rapid fire...
    that is true and wrong.
    if the soulbeast doesnt move during the channel, you can even teleport though em and they will flip 180° , like holo elite or true shot on DH.
    but if they move you can walk or teleport onto the other side of the soulbeast wich will then cancel the shot, actually by the soulbeasts own movement.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    It is too hard to kill a ranger, they get too many invulns dodging and stealth and hit like a truck. I block, and they pierce through my shield, I cripple, and they stealth and teleport away, I activate my invuln yet somehow the skill bugs out and allows me to still take physical damage enough is enough my dude. They need a nerf as they have a serious advantage in the roaming scene. I switch to full toughness armor and that bear greatsword skill chomped all of my hp and I'm still questioning how that even happens.

    Do you honestly think that warrior is somehow balanced and that every warrior player wins fights thx to their superior player skill?

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Also, if you move through a soulbeast's body (their hitbox basically) during Rapid Fire, the skill will cancel instead of finishing because it's channeled and requires its target to be in front of the soulbeast.

    Which ranger cast rapid fire that close melee range that you can pass through their hitbox realistically?

    by using something like judges intervention and running strait through them...

    as to your quote on me, you said that a knock back shot, rapid fire and hunters shot is enough kill, this being a 1v1 thread it should be obvious to dodge said set up. As others pointed out too, to pull off something like that would require you to use your whole skill bar to set that damage up which would leave a sitting duck and open food for anyone who bothered to dodge once....

    this is where the confusion comes in because you start to claim that a ranger can do that without using any set up or using berserkery gear.

    the only times you really die to a ranger one on one is purely because they are more skilled than you or because they caught you with your pants down so to speak.

    I get that I came across a bit gnarky im sorry for that but I wonder if you would be too if you had all those accusations and assumptions thrown at you instead.

    The time you use judge's intervention, rapid fire is already finished, soulbeast is probably stealthed already, or with longbow stealth or with pet stealth.
    The tactic to cancel the rapid fire animation is the most useless thing I've ever heard.

    If you are a decent soulbeast player you don't waste all your cooldowns on a combo which has a chance to fail, that's dumb.
    Why use elite, healing skill, sic'em, soulbeast mode, at 1500 range when you are at safety risking to fail it?

    Soulbest mode for unblockables, longbow knockback plus rapid fire is already a pretty high damage combo even without the buffs and without using healing, elite etc., and if it fails you still have plenty of comebacks.

    Of course if you waste all your skills and fail, if then that guy gap close in melee range you are screwed and die in 3 skills xD You have nothing left to use.

    It's like if a spellbreaker pops berserker stance, endure pain and balanced stance immediately at the beginning of the fight and then remains with nothing left to use and die lol.

    Why do you even ask for advice if you immediatly reject any kind of advice?
    Wverything he said is perfectly right and works fantastically. A ranger sometimes just gets a third of their rapid fire done due to that you can walk through them.
    JI is pretty much instantly in the face of the ranger sure it has 300 range less than RF bit guardian has more mobility to play with than JI and grestword leap JI during Whirling wrath and whirling behind the ranger most often led either to death or retreat.
    But why do i even tell this if you totally reject the idea of counterplay.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2018

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Also, if you move through a soulbeast's body (their hitbox basically) during Rapid Fire, the skill will cancel instead of finishing because it's channeled and requires its target to be in front of the soulbeast.

    Which ranger cast rapid fire that close melee range that you can pass through their hitbox realistically?

    by using something like judges intervention and running strait through them...

    as to your quote on me, you said that a knock back shot, rapid fire and hunters shot is enough kill, this being a 1v1 thread it should be obvious to dodge said set up. As others pointed out too, to pull off something like that would require you to use your whole skill bar to set that damage up which would leave a sitting duck and open food for anyone who bothered to dodge once....

    this is where the confusion comes in because you start to claim that a ranger can do that without using any set up or using berserkery gear.

    the only times you really die to a ranger one on one is purely because they are more skilled than you or because they caught you with your pants down so to speak.

    I get that I came across a bit gnarky im sorry for that but I wonder if you would be too if you had all those accusations and assumptions thrown at you instead.

    The time you use judge's intervention, rapid fire is already finished, soulbeast is probably stealthed already, or with longbow stealth or with pet stealth.
    The tactic to cancel the rapid fire animation is the most useless thing I've ever heard.

    If you are a decent soulbeast player you don't waste all your cooldowns on a combo which has a chance to fail, that's dumb.
    Why use elite, healing skill, sic'em, soulbeast mode, at 1500 range when you are at safety risking to fail it?

    Soulbest mode for unblockables, longbow knockback plus rapid fire is already a pretty high damage combo even without the buffs and without using healing, elite etc., and if it fails you still have plenty of comebacks.

    Of course if you waste all your skills and fail, if then that guy gap close in melee range you are screwed and die in 3 skills xD You have nothing left to use.

    It's like if a spellbreaker pops berserker stance, endure pain and balanced stance immediately at the beginning of the fight and then remains with nothing left to use and die lol.

    Why do you even ask for advice if you immediatly reject any kind of advice?
    Wverything he said is perfectly right and works fantastically. A ranger sometimes just gets a third of their rapid fire done due to that you can walk through them.
    JI is pretty much instantly in the face of the ranger sure it has 300 range less than RF bit guardian has more mobility to play with than JI and grestword leap JI during Whirling wrath and whirling behind the ranger most often led either to death or retreat.
    But why do i even tell this if you totally reject the idea of counterplay.

    There is counterplay, but on a ranger who is not dumb to waste all his skill at the beginning of the fight, he immediately has the advantage over you.
    As I said, he most of the times uses soulbeast mode, longbow knockback and rapid fire, 3 skills freecasted from safety range.
    And you already used 1 to 2 dodges, a stunbreak and a gap closer. Of course going close he has to retreat.
    But you have to be careful of a precast wordly impact, which good players do, they precast it on the moment you are gap closing and exactly when you meet them melee you get melted by a timed worldly impact, and i admit that requires skill and timing to pull of.
    But many even run the immob trait so as soon as you go close you are rooted for a quite a bit and he has time to reassest or combo burst.
    Again I repeat I'm not calling the class op and nerfs needed, I was just mad when people were calling it high skill build, when instead it's just the same as a spellbreaker, mirage, deadeye etc. Low risk high reward.
    In a pure duel 1vs1 or roaming 1vs1 in which you see the ranger coming to you, and if it's not a completely open field with zero obstacles, life is easier for you to deal with him, have more preparation to react fast, but if you get caught somehow by knockback and rapid fire and don't react fast enough you already lost that fight if that soulbeast is not completely handless.
    Again, knockback plus rapid fire without any prep of buffs, dish out already a pretty good amount of damage able to bring even tankier targets to about 50% health.
    That's all.

    I leave the video of this guy, which is pretty good at soulbeast, so you see what I mean.

    Yeah maybe the enemies are not that great, but for example he gets hit my an holo Prime Light Beam, stunbreak, heal full health downed enemy xD
    And he faces one enemy followed by another, and he wasn't "wasted" after using his combo like you all are saying.
    Killed a spellbreaker, an holo and a scourge in succession without cuts.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Also, if you move through a soulbeast's body (their hitbox basically) during Rapid Fire, the skill will cancel instead of finishing because it's channeled and requires its target to be in front of the soulbeast.

    Which ranger cast rapid fire that close melee range that you can pass through their hitbox realistically?

    by using something like judges intervention and running strait through them...

    as to your quote on me, you said that a knock back shot, rapid fire and hunters shot is enough kill, this being a 1v1 thread it should be obvious to dodge said set up. As others pointed out too, to pull off something like that would require you to use your whole skill bar to set that damage up which would leave a sitting duck and open food for anyone who bothered to dodge once....

    this is where the confusion comes in because you start to claim that a ranger can do that without using any set up or using berserkery gear.

    the only times you really die to a ranger one on one is purely because they are more skilled than you or because they caught you with your pants down so to speak.

    I get that I came across a bit gnarky im sorry for that but I wonder if you would be too if you had all those accusations and assumptions thrown at you instead.

    The time you use judge's intervention, rapid fire is already finished, soulbeast is probably stealthed already, or with longbow stealth or with pet stealth.
    The tactic to cancel the rapid fire animation is the most useless thing I've ever heard.

    If you are a decent soulbeast player you don't waste all your cooldowns on a combo which has a chance to fail, that's dumb.
    Why use elite, healing skill, sic'em, soulbeast mode, at 1500 range when you are at safety risking to fail it?

    Soulbest mode for unblockables, longbow knockback plus rapid fire is already a pretty high damage combo even without the buffs and without using healing, elite etc., and if it fails you still have plenty of comebacks.

    Of course if you waste all your skills and fail, if then that guy gap close in melee range you are screwed and die in 3 skills xD You have nothing left to use.

    It's like if a spellbreaker pops berserker stance, endure pain and balanced stance immediately at the beginning of the fight and then remains with nothing left to use and die lol.

    Why do you even ask for advice if you immediatly reject any kind of advice?
    Wverything he said is perfectly right and works fantastically. A ranger sometimes just gets a third of their rapid fire done due to that you can walk through them.
    JI is pretty much instantly in the face of the ranger sure it has 300 range less than RF bit guardian has more mobility to play with than JI and grestword leap JI during Whirling wrath and whirling behind the ranger most often led either to death or retreat.
    But why do i even tell this if you totally reject the idea of counterplay.

    There is counterplay, but on a ranger who is not dumb to waste all his skill at the beginning of the fight, he immediately has the advantage over you.
    As I said, he most of the times uses soulbeast mode, longbow knockback and rapid fire, 3 skills freecasted from safety range.
    And you already used 1 to 2 dodges, a stunbreak and a gap closer. Of course going close he has to retreat.
    But you have to be careful of a precast wordly impact, which good players do, they precast it on the moment you are gap closing and exactly when you meet them melee you get melted by a timed worldly impact, and i admit that requires skill and timing to pull of.
    But many even run the immob trait so as soon as you go close you are rooted for a quite a bit and he has time to reassest or combo burst.
    Again I repeat I'm not calling the class op and nerfs needed, I was just mad when people were calling it high skill build, when instead it's just the same as a spellbreaker, mirage, deadeye etc. Low risk high reward.
    In a pure duel 1vs1 or roaming 1vs1 in which you see the ranger coming to you, and if it's not a completely open field with zero obstacles, life is easier for you to deal with him, have more preparation to react fast, but if you get caught somehow by knockback and rapid fire and don't react fast enough you already lost that fight if that soulbeast is not completely handless.
    Again, knockback plus rapid fire without any prep of buffs, dish out already a pretty good amount of damage able to bring even tankier targets to about 50% health.
    That's all.

    I leave the video of this guy, which is pretty good at soulbeast, so you see what I mean.

    Yeah maybe the enemies are not that great, but for example he gets hit my an holo Prime Light Beam, stunbreak, heal full health downed enemy xD
    And he faces one enemy followed by another, and he wasn't "wasted" after using his combo like you all are saying.
    Killed a spellbreaker, an holo and a scourge in succession without cuts.

    I will always respect somebody who comes out and state the hard truth...
    Yes the game is full of low risk/high reward builds and there is no reason to play anything else other than tryhard to prove a point , like somebody running 30 miles per day to a location instead than catch the train/bus .

    You run cheese because you will be cheesed all day from others, so no fault in my choices, the theme of GW2 is low risk=high reward for the casual playerbase and that's fine, I like your sincerity and what I hate it's the attitude shown by the OP...he plays a kitten spellbreaker and dare to complain about fair fight...C'MON people!

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    I will always respect somebody who comes out and state the hard truth...
    Yes the game is full of low risk/high reward builds and there is no reason to play anything else other than tryhard to prove a point , like somebody running 30 miles per day to a location instead than catch the train/bus .
    You run cheese because you will be cheesed all day from others, so no fault in my choices, the theme of GW2 is low risk=high reward for the casual playerbase and that's fine, I like your sincerity and what I hate it's the attitude shown by the OP...he plays a kitten spellbreaker and dare to complain about fair fight...C'MON people!

    Yeah, playing spellbreaker as well sometimes I win most of my 1vs2s and I realize sometimes I didn't deserve to win them.
    I wish those soulbeasts players have the same honesty to admit that.
    If you solo roam you are forced to play something cheesy, after getting constantly nuked by mesmers, thieves, soulbeasts, spellbreakers, or you play something cheesy too or you will be sent back to wp every minute.

    To sum up all my posts, the central node of my thinking is: soulbeast with the recent changes rised up among mesmers, thieves, spellbreakers, holos, to be a cheesy low risk high reward spec to use in small groups or solo roaming; and I gave more than enough proofs to consolidate my words.

    Then of course ranger mains came calling it glassy, if you fail the combo you are done and dead immediately, when instead I proved many soulbeasts even if full zerk, they run durability runes, and even if you add up marauder pieces your overall damage is lowered by an insignificant amount when instead your survivability rise up.

    And same as warrior who runs full zerk, full zerk soulbeast is not much different, plenty of defensive tools.

    A full zerk soulbeast with dura runes and (almost perma) protection on dodge, it's everything but not glassy as you might expect, while the damage is crazy high.

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    I will always respect somebody who comes out and state the hard truth...
    Yes the game is full of low risk/high reward builds and there is no reason to play anything else other than tryhard to prove a point , like somebody running 30 miles per day to a location instead than catch the train/bus .
    You run cheese because you will be cheesed all day from others, so no fault in my choices, the theme of GW2 is low risk=high reward for the casual playerbase and that's fine, I like your sincerity and what I hate it's the attitude shown by the OP...he plays a kitten spellbreaker and dare to complain about fair fight...C'MON people!

    If you solo roam you are forced to play something cheesy, after getting constantly nuked by mesmers, thieves, soulbeasts, spellbreakers, or you play something cheesy too or you will be sent back to wp every minute.

    To sum up all my posts, the central node of my thinking is: soulbeast with the recent changes rised up among mesmers, thieves, spellbreakers, holos, to be a cheesy low risk high reward spec to use in small groups or solo roaming; and I gave more than enough proofs to consolidate my words.

    Then of course ranger mains came calling it glassy, if you fail the combo you are done and dead immediately, when instead I proved many soulbeasts even if full zerk, they run durability runes, and even if you add up marauder pieces your overall damage is lowered by an insignificant amount when instead your survivability rise up.

    That's what roaming is. Fundamentally inbalanced. H&r builds, hugging objectives, ganking, permastealth, resetting, completely laughable damage and rock-paper-scissors style PvP. It's about avoiding even matchups and picking matchups you can WIN so you can feel good about yourself even if the matchup was won by default. The skill comes from playing patient enough to only pick fights you win. It's loved for exactly that reason, anyone can be a winner no matter how high or low your skill level is.
    That's why it's so much more popular than PvP. Because people can pretend to be good far more easily.

    But does that make ranger in itself OP? Well it's risk/reward is completely out of balance but that's true for almost all "top tier" roaming builds. As you clearly state, most "meta" roaming builds are all about high reward low risk. Reminds me of everyone running condi mirage when it was completely busted.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Etheri.5406 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    I will always respect somebody who comes out and state the hard truth...
    Yes the game is full of low risk/high reward builds and there is no reason to play anything else other than tryhard to prove a point , like somebody running 30 miles per day to a location instead than catch the train/bus .
    You run cheese because you will be cheesed all day from others, so no fault in my choices, the theme of GW2 is low risk=high reward for the casual playerbase and that's fine, I like your sincerity and what I hate it's the attitude shown by the OP...he plays a kitten spellbreaker and dare to complain about fair fight...C'MON people!

    If you solo roam you are forced to play something cheesy, after getting constantly nuked by mesmers, thieves, soulbeasts, spellbreakers, or you play something cheesy too or you will be sent back to wp every minute.

    To sum up all my posts, the central node of my thinking is: soulbeast with the recent changes rised up among mesmers, thieves, spellbreakers, holos, to be a cheesy low risk high reward spec to use in small groups or solo roaming; and I gave more than enough proofs to consolidate my words.

    Then of course ranger mains came calling it glassy, if you fail the combo you are done and dead immediately, when instead I proved many soulbeasts even if full zerk, they run durability runes, and even if you add up marauder pieces your overall damage is lowered by an insignificant amount when instead your survivability rise up.

    That's what roaming is. Fundamentally inbalanced. H&r builds, hugging objectives, ganking, permastealth, resetting, completely laughable damage and rock-paper-scissors style PvP. It's about avoiding even matchups and picking matchups you can WIN so you can feel good about yourself even if the matchup was won by default. The skill comes from playing patient enough to only pick fights you win. It's loved for exactly that reason, anyone can be a winner no matter how high or low your skill level is.
    That's why it's so much more popular than PvP. Because people can pretend to be good far more easily.

    But does that make ranger in itself OP? Well it's risk/reward is completely out of balance but that's true for almost all "top tier" roaming builds. As you clearly state, most "meta" roaming builds are all about high reward low risk. Reminds me of everyone running condi mirage when it was completely busted.

    Exactly, but I would just love a bit of honesty from the players who play those builds.
    Like those warriors (and lately soulbeasts to remain in thread, or condi/power mirages) with double endure pain and double balanced stance who siege you and whisper you to get good, thinking they are pro players, when they probably arehalf your skill level, but you can't do much about it because you got hard countered or simply they can afford multiple big mistakes and you no more than one or two.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭

    That video that was posted only proves my point. Don't deny it, it's just sheer evidence that supports my claim, the dude did 14k damage using longbow 2 alone.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2018

    @Aridon.8362 , play some builds with decent evasion and gap closer, guardian with GS and meditation tends to melt rangers easilly, if they stalth they cant move further away, bomb that zone and probably ranger will apear downed, only issue is if pet hits with opening maul that will hurt alot expect 15k(i think it is the opening hit with maul that makes it increase alot the damage but rangers/druids can correct me if i am wrong) hit, or LB burst at melee range lol.

    Vault thief u would not even touch it due the amount or block evasion dodge they have ;D

  • misterman.1530misterman.1530 Member ✭✭✭

    Shoot. Here I was thinking I had missed a skill/trait or combination of the two that would allow me to teleport away as a ranger. Sigh.

    As for rangers being too op in wvw - I will grant they are a scourge's nemesis. A scourge - like all Necro builds - has no mobility to speak of, and no way to block. So, if a ranger zeros in, all a scourge can do is hope they get close enough to cast some marks or shades - or get away somehow (which is unlikely).

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2018

    @misterman.1530 said:
    Shoot. Here I was thinking I had missed a skill/trait or combination of the two that would allow me to teleport away as a ranger. Sigh.

    As for rangers being too op in wvw - I will grant they are a scourge's nemesis. A scourge - like all Necro builds - has no mobility to speak of, and no way to block. So, if a ranger zeros in, all a scourge can do is hope they get close enough to cast some marks or shades - or get away somehow (which is unlikely).

    that only happens in 1 vs 1 lol...

    in group gameplay scourges arent alone the moment ranger and other try to pin scourge players they are already on the aoe spam zone :bleep_bloop: wich mean no matter u dodge u will die instantly between the 2 jump dodge frames...

    Dont forget that actually scourge can do 1200 range easilly.

  • Iris Ng.9845Iris Ng.9845 Member ✭✭✭

    I roam mainly as a warrior. From my experience, I lost half of the time I faced a really good ranger who knows how warrior works and I won like 80% against rangers who just spam rotations and don't dodge full counter. Surprisingly, soul beast and druid are picked up the most by average-skill roamers.

  • Bashi.8902Bashi.8902 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    It is too hard to kill a ranger, they get too many invulns dodging and stealth and hit like a truck. I block, and they pierce through my shield, I cripple, and they stealth and teleport away, I activate my invuln yet somehow the skill bugs out and allows me to still take physical damage enough is enough my dude. They need a nerf as they have a serious advantage in the roaming scene. I switch to full toughness armor and that bear greatsword skill chomped all of my hp and I'm still questioning how that even happens.

    Rangers are Squishy. Rangers require more mechanical skill then most other classes (holo, spellbreaker, Guardian, necro), Rangers need constant awearness of their pets to be fully affective, Rangers need to blow 3 utility skill to 100-0 you from range which you could have dodged if you wouldnt be totally clueless (One Wolf Pack, Quickening Zephyr, Sick Em) once you are close all you need to worry about is "if they are GS" the block which interrupts on the next hit, also guess what MAUL has a huge casttime and is so ez to see there is no way you ever hit someone with it that isnt blind. Same goes for wordly impact btw. Its a L2P issue at its fines. Lemme guess you where playing Guardian and didnt know what button your blink was on? Or it took you actually 4 seconds to stunbreak and you ate a whole Longbow combo.

  • Lynnie.7213Lynnie.7213 Member ✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    Also, if you move through a soulbeast's body (their hitbox basically) during Rapid Fire, the skill will cancel instead of finishing because it's channeled and requires its target to be in front of the soulbeast.

    Which ranger cast rapid fire that close melee range that you can pass through their hitbox realistically?

    by using something like judges intervention and running strait through them...

    as to your quote on me, you said that a knock back shot, rapid fire and hunters shot is enough kill, this being a 1v1 thread it should be obvious to dodge said set up. As others pointed out too, to pull off something like that would require you to use your whole skill bar to set that damage up which would leave a sitting duck and open food for anyone who bothered to dodge once....

    this is where the confusion comes in because you start to claim that a ranger can do that without using any set up or using berserkery gear.

    the only times you really die to a ranger one on one is purely because they are more skilled than you or because they caught you with your pants down so to speak.

    I get that I came across a bit gnarky im sorry for that but I wonder if you would be too if you had all those accusations and assumptions thrown at you instead.

    The time you use judge's intervention, rapid fire is already finished, soulbeast is probably stealthed already, or with longbow stealth or with pet stealth.
    The tactic to cancel the rapid fire animation is the most useless thing I've ever heard.

    If you are a decent soulbeast player you don't waste all your cooldowns on a combo which has a chance to fail, that's dumb.
    Why use elite, healing skill, sic'em, soulbeast mode, at 1500 range when you are at safety risking to fail it?

    Soulbest mode for unblockables, longbow knockback plus rapid fire is already a pretty high damage combo even without the buffs and without using healing, elite etc., and if it fails you still have plenty of comebacks.

    Of course if you waste all your skills and fail, if then that guy gap close in melee range you are screwed and die in 3 skills xD You have nothing left to use.

    It's like if a spellbreaker pops berserker stance, endure pain and balanced stance immediately at the beginning of the fight and then remains with nothing left to use and die lol.

    Why do you even ask for advice if you immediatly reject any kind of advice?
    Wverything he said is perfectly right and works fantastically. A ranger sometimes just gets a third of their rapid fire done due to that you can walk through them.
    JI is pretty much instantly in the face of the ranger sure it has 300 range less than RF bit guardian has more mobility to play with than JI and grestword leap JI during Whirling wrath and whirling behind the ranger most often led either to death or retreat.
    But why do i even tell this if you totally reject the idea of counterplay.

    There is counterplay, but on a ranger who is not dumb to waste all his skill at the beginning of the fight, he immediately has the advantage over you.
    As I said, he most of the times uses soulbeast mode, longbow knockback and rapid fire, 3 skills freecasted from safety range.
    And you already used 1 to 2 dodges, a stunbreak and a gap closer. Of course going close he has to retreat.
    But you have to be careful of a precast wordly impact, which good players do, they precast it on the moment you are gap closing and exactly when you meet them melee you get melted by a timed worldly impact, and i admit that requires skill and timing to pull of.
    But many even run the immob trait so as soon as you go close you are rooted for a quite a bit and he has time to reassest or combo burst.
    Again I repeat I'm not calling the class op and nerfs needed, I was just mad when people were calling it high skill build, when instead it's just the same as a spellbreaker, mirage, deadeye etc. Low risk high reward.
    In a pure duel 1vs1 or roaming 1vs1 in which you see the ranger coming to you, and if it's not a completely open field with zero obstacles, life is easier for you to deal with him, have more preparation to react fast, but if you get caught somehow by knockback and rapid fire and don't react fast enough you already lost that fight if that soulbeast is not completely handless.
    Again, knockback plus rapid fire without any prep of buffs, dish out already a pretty good amount of damage able to bring even tankier targets to about 50% health.
    That's all.

    I leave the video of this guy, which is pretty good at soulbeast, so you see what I mean.

    Yeah maybe the enemies are not that great, but for example he gets hit my an holo Prime Light Beam, stunbreak, heal full health downed enemy xD
    And he faces one enemy followed by another, and he wasn't "wasted" after using his combo like you all are saying.
    Killed a spellbreaker, an holo and a scourge in succession without cuts.

    Seems like i got dragged into this discussion. Yeah, gotta admit most of these fights the players were not very skilled but since i am stuck in T4 that's the most i've got lately. But, about the holo fight, that is my personal opinion of course: holo is the hardest fight for me to fight against because of the high damage pressure and the CC chains (which ranger is weak against). I'd rather fight two spellbreakers than a good holo. If you commit a mistake they will kitten you up. So yeah, i got lucky there and he wasn't that skilled per say. The day i fought Xan a couple times, dude destroyed me most of times(like 90ish % of times). About being "wasted", i try to space out my utility cooldowns the most that i can, so i don't get stacked cooldowns that will lead to my defeat.

    DONEE - Youtube
    https://youtube.com/donee

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lynnie.7213 said:
    Seems like i got dragged into this discussion. Yeah, gotta admit most of these fights the players were not very skilled but since i am stuck in T4 that's the most i've got lately. But, about the holo fight, that is my personal opinion of course: holo is the hardest fight for me to fight against because of the high damage pressure and the CC chains (which ranger is weak against). I'd rather fight two spellbreakers than a good holo. If you commit a mistake they will kitten you up. So yeah, i got lucky there and he wasn't that skilled per say. The day i fought Xan a couple times, dude destroyed me most of times(like 90ish % of times). About being "wasted", i try to space out my utility cooldowns the most that i can, so i don't get stacked cooldowns that will lead to my defeat.

    Nothing personal against you obviously, I used your last video ( I even gave you some visibility, now I have to get paid :P haha) to prove that soulbeast works on marauder durability, and the damage is insanely high with a lot of survivability too, not different from a spellbreaker.
    You are good at playing it so you can even 1vs2 and get an enemy followed by another and still win.

    All people here had the theory of: Soulbeast burst you using a lot of resources, and if the damage combo fails he is screwed because glassy yada yada yada.

  • Lynnie.7213Lynnie.7213 Member ✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Lynnie.7213 said:
    Seems like i got dragged into this discussion. Yeah, gotta admit most of these fights the players were not very skilled but since i am stuck in T4 that's the most i've got lately. But, about the holo fight, that is my personal opinion of course: holo is the hardest fight for me to fight against because of the high damage pressure and the CC chains (which ranger is weak against). I'd rather fight two spellbreakers than a good holo. If you commit a mistake they will kitten you up. So yeah, i got lucky there and he wasn't that skilled per say. The day i fought Xan a couple times, dude destroyed me most of times(like 90ish % of times). About being "wasted", i try to space out my utility cooldowns the most that i can, so i don't get stacked cooldowns that will lead to my defeat.

    Nothing personal against you obviously, I used your last video ( I even gave you some visibility, now I have to get paid :P haha) to prove that soulbeast works on marauder durability, and the damage is insanely high with a lot of survivability too, not different from a spellbreaker.
    You are good at playing it so you can even 1vs2 and get an enemy followed by another and still win.

    All people here had the theory of: Soulbeast burst you using a lot of resources, and if the damage combo fails he is screwed because glassy yada yada yada.

    No, no, i am poor, no paying! lol
    I get what you mean but the Sic em soulbeast build is pretty much like that. The clip i am fighting a reaper and Dh, i was dead if didn't get that kill fast.

    DONEE - Youtube
    https://youtube.com/donee

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935
    You have ranger mains telling you it doesn't work the way you think because of the claims you've posted about what soulbeast is capable of that just aren't accurate. For example: soulbeast does not have near perma protection from dodges with the minor in Wilderness Survival. It's 2 1/2 secs of protection per dodge with the 20% boon duration from durability runes. For another example: there is no immobilization trait soulbeast can run to keep someone rooted. Lesser Muddy Terrain immobilizes on creation only. For a third example: there is no way to precast Worldly Impact. The animation roots the soulbeast and soulbeast lacks any ports to move with once the animation has started.

    If a soulbeast is built to take someone 100 to 0 or 100 to 25 (depending on the target) from rapid fire, it has to spend most of its resources to do so. The soulbeast in the vid you added to this thread does not hit that hard against most targets with its rapid fire because it's not built to burst with longbow alone (looks to be a BM/WS build for most of the vid). The times the soulbeast does do more damage with rapid fire in the vid are when it has might from SotP or when it uses maul from greatsword before switching to longbow.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    @whoknocks.4935
    You have ranger mains telling you it doesn't work the way you think because of the claims you've posted about what soulbeast is capable of that just aren't accurate. For example: soulbeast does not have near perma protection from dodges with the minor in Wilderness Survival. It's 2 1/2 secs of protection per dodge with the 20% boon duration from durability runes. For another example: there is no immobilization trait soulbeast can run to keep someone rooted. Lesser Muddy Terrain immobilizes on creation only. For a third example: there is no way to precast Worldly Impact. The animation roots the soulbeast and soulbeast lacks any ports to move with once the animation has started.

    If a soulbeast is built to take someone 100 to 0 or 100 to 25 (depending on the target) from rapid fire, it has to spend most of its resources to do so. The soulbeast in the vid you added to this thread does not hit that hard against most targets with its rapid fire because it's not built to burst with longbow alone (looks to be a BM/WS build for most of the vid). The times the soulbeast does do more damage with rapid fire in the vid are when it has might from SotP or when it uses maul from greatsword before switching to longbow.

    Of course you can precast worldly impact, when you are sure the enemy is about to port or leap on you.
    One good soulbeast the other day read perfectly when I was about to use my leap into him, he precasted wordly impact before I was near, I was in the middle of my leap animation and I couldn't interrupt it because no weapon swap available and I landed perfectly into his wordly impact which downed me. That was what I meant with precast.

    I dunno... even running mara and dura the damage feels pretty high, it's a not a 100-0 but maybe a 100-25?
    Wonder why soulbeast is called boonbeast sometimes, maybe it's not the sic'em variance but a more boon oriented version with lot of boons uptime, protection too.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2018

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Sounds like the Soulbeast knew how to deal with a Warrior.

    As for taking damage when you're invul, it's not a bug, soul beast can stack a good 10s or more of unblockable attacks, very effective for killing some classes such as Guardian, Warrior and Mesmer.

    It's really amusing when facing a guardian roamer actually because out of reaction they pop the focus 5 which won't stop unblockables then chain through the blocks/aegis which has no effect and by that stage you can literally see the player spamming dodges and panicking because you're still 1500+ range away safely pewpewing... Or they Judges intervention right into your worldly Impact.

    That's not how invulns work. Unblockable attacks only affect blocks and projectile reflects.

    The only thing I can think of is Vulture Stance proc'ing Predator's Cunning. Otherwise the hits should still deal 0's.

    SB is definitely a bit overloaded right now. I haven't played ranger in ages but when I want to 1v1 someone it's definitely the class I swap to and almost always win.

    I don't really have a problem with ranger dealing the damage it can deal so much as I have a problem with how it goes about dealing it. SB gives a ton of mobility and utility to the ranger that it otherwise never really had before, and the way it goes about dealing its damage is very low-risk and very much harshly counters a lot of elements of the game (unblockables, Sic 'Em/stealth, etc.). I think it may be time for longbow to be properly hard-capped at 1500 range, Unstoppable Union brought down to 2 or 3 seconds duration (it has 40% uptime which is absolutely bonkers considering this is a class easily capable of 6k AA's, up to 12k), and Sic 'Em made into a 25% modifier while in beast mode versus 40%, and Signet of Stone given the warrior stance treatment: shorter duration and lower cooldown, opening up room for punishment.

    This way not much really changes for skilled players, but the skill floor is lowered a little more so people first-timing soulbeast aren't instantly deleting people from 2k units away.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • I roam with a squishy but sustainable Druid. I was two-shotted from a wall by a SB last night. Two LB1s and One Wolf Pack . That seems bound for nerfland and I just hope it doesn't affect us honest, hard-working rangers as well :)

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    That video that was posted only proves my point. Don't deny it, it's just sheer evidence that supports my claim, the dude did 14k damage using longbow 2 alone.

    Instead of blaming the profession (not the more skilled player) that beat you in wvw, that you find so super easy to kill in spvp, I’d suggest humbling yourself and working on your build. You keep adding up excuses for losses and that’s a personal problem with you, not the other player....

    We can play the “nerf this op” thing all day if you want...

  • DuckDuckBOOM.4097DuckDuckBOOM.4097 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    That video that was posted only proves my point. Don't deny it, it's just sheer evidence that supports my claim, the dude did 14k damage using longbow 2 alone.

    Instead of blaming the profession (not the more skilled player) that beat you in wvw, that you find so super easy to kill in spvp, I’d suggest humbling yourself and working on your build. You keep adding up excuses for losses and that’s a personal problem with you, not the other player....

    We can play the “nerf this op” thing all day if you want...
    ...

    All of those prove SpB isn't OP because there is a lot of footage of SpB beating up SpB therefore SpB is weak. Cant argue with that. /s

    @Lynnie.7213 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Lynnie.7213 said:
    Seems like i got dragged into this discussion. Yeah, gotta admit most of these fights the players were not very skilled but since i am stuck in T4 that's the most i've got lately. But, about the holo fight, that is my personal opinion of course: holo is the hardest fight for me to fight against because of the high damage pressure and the CC chains (which ranger is weak against). I'd rather fight two spellbreakers than a good holo. If you commit a mistake they will kitten you up. So yeah, i got lucky there and he wasn't that skilled per say. The day i fought Xan a couple times, dude destroyed me most of times(like 90ish % of times). About being "wasted", i try to space out my utility cooldowns the most that i can, so i don't get stacked cooldowns that will lead to my defeat.

    Nothing personal against you obviously, I used your last video ( I even gave you some visibility, now I have to get paid :P haha) to prove that soulbeast works on marauder durability, and the damage is insanely high with a lot of survivability too, not different from a spellbreaker.
    You are good at playing it so you can even 1vs2 and get an enemy followed by another and still win.

    All people here had the theory of: Soulbeast burst you using a lot of resources, and if the damage combo fails he is screwed because glassy yada yada yada.

    No, no, i am poor, no paying! lol
    I get what you mean but the Sic em soulbeast build is pretty much like that. The clip i am fighting a reaper and Dh, i was dead if didn't get that kill fast.

    I don't think people get that last bit enough. You are playing really well and using all the active ranger/SB defenses to the fullest but death can happen really fast with that build. As someone that usually pvps with necro, that first reaper fight was painful to watch. The reaper just ran at you while not casting anything then didn't even bother using RS2 to gap close and block projectiles. Scepter auto then a single corrupt boon after you used your elite would likely have ended the fight. The scourge towards the end, despite being one of the worst roaming specs, also put some serious hurt on before you created distance.

    DH and a base guard also looked like they held up for a while because of constant block, CC and blind. It's actually disturbing how rarely enemies tried to interrupt your abilities given the low stab of ranger.

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    That video that was posted only proves my point. Don't deny it, it's just sheer evidence that supports my claim, the dude did 14k damage using longbow 2 alone.

    Instead of blaming the profession (not the more skilled player) that beat you in wvw, that you find so super easy to kill in spvp, I’d suggest humbling yourself and working on your build. You keep adding up excuses for losses and that’s a personal problem with you, not the other player....

    We can play the “nerf this op” thing all day if you want...

    -

    that mesmer burst

    lol and people complain about the slow as hell Worldly Impact and Maul.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Instead of blaming the profession (not the more skilled player) that beat you in wvw, that you find so super easy to kill in spvp, I’d suggest humbling yourself and working on your build. You keep adding up excuses for losses and that’s a personal problem with you, not the other player....

    Well you can probably forget about people doing that, most seem to completely lack self awareness.

    In the latest whisper tirade from an oh so blatantly obvious purpose built roaming soulbeast that knew exactly how to play the build he was on, the argument revealed that since I was running an OP mirage I only lost 50% of my hp in one of his bursts because I allowed him to hit me.

    Soulbeast so weak, buff plox. They cant hurt people unless allowed.

    I think I'm gonna use that every time I loose a fight now. Did a DD just backstab me from stealth and downed me in an instant? I allowed that cause he was a noob. A soulbeast doing unblockable rapid fire? I let that happen because he's a noob. A rev using smokescale on me? I had my arms wide open welcoming it, noobs need every help they can get. A spellbreaker using full counter? NOOB JUST STAND STILL AND LET ME HIT YOU kitten!!!

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    The main issue I have with Soul Beast is how it can perform unblockable attacks for 4 WHOLE seconds. It should be like the first 3 hits... and if they miss it should remove 1 stack. Ranger does have a lot of sustain (core/Druid/Soul Beast).

  • ChartFish.1308ChartFish.1308 Member ✭✭✭

    @mrauls.6519 said:
    The main issue I have with Soul Beast is how it can perform unblockable attacks for 4 WHOLE seconds. It should be like the first 3 hits... and if they miss it should remove 1 stack. Ranger does have a lot of sustain (core/Druid/Soul Beast).

    Warrior has access to two separate 6 sec unblockables... reaper has a 4 sec unblockable which can be increased to 9 sec of unblockable-ness 👀

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Sounds like the Soulbeast knew how to deal with a Warrior.

    As for taking damage when you're invul, it's not a bug, soul beast can stack a good 10s or more of unblockable attacks, very effective for killing some classes such as Guardian, Warrior and Mesmer.

    It's really amusing when facing a guardian roamer actually because out of reaction they pop the focus 5 which won't stop unblockables then chain through the blocks/aegis which has no effect and by that stage you can literally see the player spamming dodges and panicking because you're still 1500+ range away safely pewpewing... Or they Judges intervention right into your worldly Impact.

    That's not how invulns work. Unblockable attacks only affect blocks and projectile reflects.

    The only thing I can think of is Vulture Stance proc'ing Predator's Cunning. Otherwise the hits should still deal 0's.

    SB is definitely a bit overloaded right now. I haven't played ranger in ages but when I want to 1v1 someone it's definitely the class I swap to and almost always win.

    I don't really have a problem with ranger dealing the damage it can deal so much as I have a problem with how it goes about dealing it. SB gives a ton of mobility and utility to the ranger that it otherwise never really had before, and the way it goes about dealing its damage is very low-risk and very much harshly counters a lot of elements of the game (unblockables, Sic 'Em/stealth, etc.). I think it may be time for longbow to be properly hard-capped at 1500 range, Unstoppable Union brought down to 2 or 3 seconds duration (it has 40% uptime which is absolutely bonkers considering this is a class easily capable of 6k AA's, up to 12k), and Sic 'Em made into a 25% modifier while in beast mode versus 40%, and Signet of Stone given the warrior stance treatment: shorter duration and lower cooldown, opening up room for punishment.

    This way not much really changes for skilled players, but the skill floor is lowered a little more so people first-timing soulbeast aren't instantly deleting people from 2k units away.

    Signet of Stone got its duration and cooldown halved in PvP and WvW in the March balance patch. It now has a 3 sec duration with a 40 sec cd versus the 6 sec duration it used to have on an 80 sec cd.

    Unstoppable Union doesn't have 40% uptime. I'm guessing you're getting that number from its 4 sec duration and beastmode's 10 sec cd. Beastmode's cd starts on leaving it, not on entering it, so a soulbeast trying to have max uptime on unblockable through Unstoppable Union alone would be unblockable 4 secs out of every 14 secs, giving the trait about 28.5% uptime assuming the soulbeast leaves beastmode the second the trait's effect ends.

    Longbow range is consistent with every other weapon in the game with arcing projectiles (every bow, ele staff autoattack, mortar kit, etc). Hard capping longbow to 1500 would require a change to arcing projectiles having a greater range than stated in tooltips and wouldn't be a change made to ranger longbow itself.

    Stoneform's duration is still 5 seconds at a 70s cd in WvW which is mathematically better than Defy Pain on the tank line for Warrior, which was changed to 2s duration on a 90s cooldown in sPvP for being too strong. Spellbreaker has the same problems with Endure Pain, but was split to sPvP to be only 2s duration; I think SoS should follow this model to be burst-avoidance rather than a tool that enables safe engages/full-combos. It's also worth noting ther eare beast form pets with damage immunity in them as well, which a lot of people run to swap while under the effects of some SoS variant to stack continued damage negation. All the while, this also procs Unstoppable Union.

    For Unstoppable Union, you don't need to stay merged to keep the effect going. It works like any other buff effect in that it will continue to persist even after changing the circumstances of what applied it. Even still, it's a bonkers uptime on-demand with no real cost unlike running SotH; OOC unmerged and engage merged for what amounts to basically guaranteed damage. It's an answer to block powercreep but turns the problem into rock-paper-scissors-scenario where scissors now sometimes also counters rock. Further, UU even at the 14s duration is still better than every other unblockable effect access in the game across all professions when comparing uptime and recast potential. Again, with next to no cost to the build (unlike even warrior running SoM for a utility skill slot, which again, is also still worse).

    Longbow's attack radius is consistent in behavior but not its actual potency; other classes with arcing projectiles (and mesmer GS) maximize at 1500 because they're defaulted to 1200; ranger's defaults to 1500 and then benefits from the arcing projectile bonus on top of that, pushing it to nearly 1900 which makes it nearly impossible to disengage from and severely wounds any target attempting an engage via gap-closers which are no longer affected by movespeed bonuses.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    @ChartFish.1308 said:

    @mrauls.6519 said:
    The main issue I have with Soul Beast is how it can perform unblockable attacks for 4 WHOLE seconds. It should be like the first 3 hits... and if they miss it should remove 1 stack. Ranger does have a lot of sustain (core/Druid/Soul Beast).

    Warrior has access to two separate 6 sec unblockables... reaper has a 4 sec unblockable which can be increased to 9 sec of unblockable-ness 👀

    Context is important. Warrior/Reaper unblockable isn't as frequent and deadly as Soul Beast's. That 4 second window is all Soul Beast needs to do a nasty combo to you

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2018

    @DeceiverX.8361
    Just about everything I stated in my above post is fact, so not sure what to tell you. SoS (not Stoneform, my post never referenced Stoneform) already had its cd/duration halved. The range of ranger longbow is due to how arcing projectiles work. The only thing subjective about my earlier post is whether or not a soulbeast would choose to leave beastmode immediately upon entering it for the sake of maximizing UU uptime at the cost of less time actually spent in beastmode.

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