Q2 earnings.

Just got the new Q2 - 2018 earnings report.

Looks like it's up YoY.

Here’s another graph

What's interesting is that Heart of Thorns made 99,097 in the first 4 Quarters while Path of Fire made 98,555, which seems stable.However, Path of Fire was released at the very end of 3Q17 so most of that quarter didn't have expansion sales. Further, at this point the Heart of Thorns revenue had already dropped to around 15000 while Path of Fire remains at 19000. It looks like the mount skins, the expansion sale and the constant content release (instead of the huge content drought after Heart of Thorns) is making Path of Fire more profitable than Heart of Thorns. We'll see in the next quarter if it keeps this up.

http://i.imgur.com/38H6Y4L.jpg

Edit: Another interesting bit is that Path of Fire now is at about the same level as Living World Season 2 (3Q 2014, 4Q 2014)

So the high peak at the left is Living Season 1 or core game? ;)

That would be launch.

@hugo.4705 said:So the high peak at the left is Living Season 1 or core game? ;)

3Q12 and 4Q12 were the launch quarters.The highest revenue the game has seen since then is 4Q15 with the release of Heart of Thorns. (37331)Next up we have 1Q13 which was still very close to release, honeymoon period for the game. (36382)Third highest revenue after launch was Path of Fire release in 4Q17 (34903)At 4th place we have 4Q13 which has a massive discount sale for the game. Interestingly enough, it was also the only time during Season 1 that they released instanced content, with Twilight Assault and the revamp of Fractals with Fractured. Plus the addition of the Tower of Nightmares. (33555)

Another interesting way at looking at the revenue, there have been 11 quarters after the 2 release ones until Heart of Thorns and 11 quarters after Heart of Thorns.The game made 272,825 from 1Q13 up to 3Q15 and 240,298 from 4Q15 up to 2Q18, which means despite the drop after Heart of Thorns the game is making very comparable amount of money before and after they went with the expansions. Considering how mmorpgs lose lots of players over time this isn't so bad at all.

Agree the amount over the time is correct.

It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

@Vayne.8563 said:It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

This.

It would be interesting to go very in-depth and actually try to analyze or try to factor for more than just revenue but also in game digital goods.

For example, the entire line of convenience items and services offered post HoT and PoF (as well as skins) was not available at launch or in the first year. This points to an interesting transition which Arenanet managed resulting in a steady revenue stream.

Pure numbers: game looks healthy and PoF seems to have peaked more peoples interests than HoT. Let's not forget though, the competition is near non existent. There is WoW, FF 14, and basically some more western MMOs which are barely beyond life support. ESO is doing okay from that crowd I think and Eve Online has its core player base. That's it though, most every other MMO be it western or asian has failed in the western market.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

Agree with both @Vayne.8563 and the above from @Cyninja.2954

Though I would disagree slightly with the belief that competition is non existent bar those few. I believe the market is saturated with competition, when compared to how the field looked when WoW was coming to prominence.. Not every online game or MMO has to be a WoW or an FF14 to be classed as competition. By its very nature a saturated market of good, bad and ugly games plays into the up's and downs of any games numbers. GW2 I believe is managing to keep players interested, has a cash shop that helps stimulate revenue in between and during expansion cycles and does it pretty well, but to say that they have little in the way of competition I think does ANET and their team a disservice tbh. I would like to think it's because of the game quality, the business model and the players liking of something a little off the ordinary approach to traditional MMO's is what helps maintain much of that "healthy" look, whilst having to compete in a saturated market place.Long may it continue.

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

Well, it has and doesn't have competition. It has the more general competition of MMOs, however, if you're looking for a specific type of MMO, this game is in a class, almost by itself.

I'm most interested in a game that centers on the open world, rather than raiding, and in addition to that doesn't have open world PvP. There are precious few games like this. WOW has an open world, but it's clearly focused on group instanced content, particularly at end game (in PvE anyway). Final Fantasy XIV is also more dungeon/raid focused. Games like Archeage, BDO and Blade and Soul are more open world PvP games. BDO and Archeage don't even have PVE servers. They're PvP games pretty much from the ground up. So they compete with each other.

For people who play the game I play, there's Guild Wars 2 and maybe ESO. The competition for a specific playstyle is a lot less.

That means everyone who is interested in a game that's basically open world PVP has a host of games. People who are interested in a predominantly raiding game have plenty of competition. This game has a general competition when it comes to MMOs, but it fills a niche very few games can compete with.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

The thing with GW2 is that they reneged their original "living world" vision, with a world that changes with the game's story and progress, to a Living Story. And even though i prefer the Story, with it being replayable and what not. It's a major step back for the game in terms of uniqueness and it's identity.Right now, with the balance towards single player experience, GW2 is competing more with GW1 and games like the Witcher, Skyrim and other single player story driven RPGs than MMORPGs. And in that front it will lose again, even to GW1, some say.

For people who play the game I play, there's Guild Wars 2 and maybe ESO. The competition for a specific playstyle is a lot less.

That means everyone who is interested in a game that's basically open world PVP has a host of games. People who are interested in a predominantly raiding game have plenty of competition. This game has a general competition when it comes to MMOs, but it fills a niche very few games can compete with.Did you notice you never defined what GW2 is? What's it's strong point, niche or identity?It is a jack of all trades, but more and more it's becoming master of none, and that might hurt the game in the future. Especially because Arena Net is, apparently, abandoning their initial momentum and will to innovate, and are settling into a set pace with a very formulaic development, that, the further it continues, the more it hurts the game.

I'm glad they're doing well enough, but disappointed that they're not improving.

Honestly, i'd relish a open, transparent talk from the devs as to where the money came, if the more expensive items in the gem store have had a significant impact or not. What worked and what didn't.We're not likely going to see that, which is sad, since most of us are stakeholders on the game, and that kind of information would help us help them keep the game going for another 6+ years.

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

For people who play the game I play, there's Guild Wars 2 and maybe ESO. The competition for a specific playstyle is a lot less.

That means everyone who is interested in a game that's basically open world PVP has a host of games. People who are interested in a predominantly raiding game have plenty of competition. This game has a general competition when it comes to MMOs, but it fills a niche very few games can compete with.Did you notice you never defined what GW2 is? What's it's strong point, niche or identity?It is a jack of all trades, but more and more it's becoming master of none, and that might hurt the game in the future. Especially because Arena Net is, apparently, abandoning their initial momentum and will to innovate, and are settling into a set pace with a very formulaic development, that, the further it continues, the more it hurts the game.

Actually Guild Wars 2 was very well defined before raids came out and raids muddied the waters. Before that happened, it was a home for people who liked casual open world content. Dungeons weren't ever heavily supported. Nor were Fractals. Ask PvP and WvW players how they felt the game did supporting their respective game modes.

From day one, Anet said over and over again, including on the first page of their website, they were interested in creating a living breathing world. That's what they wanted. It was what the dynamic events were about. It was what Living Story Season 1 was about. It was clearly the focus of the company and many of us knew it and talked about it. Saying it wasn't well defined just isn't true.

Right now, look at how the raid guys are saying they're not getting enough raids and fractals. But the open world people are getting a new zone every 2-3 months. They're getting new story every 2-3 months . This is what the game is focused on just looking at updates. When you go full hog on a sitting in chair update, you pretty much know what the game is about.

HoT changed the conversation quite a bit because we had 9 months without a casual update, and during that time, we had raids and PvP seasons, and what happened? The casual guys, who felt the game was their game, were suddenly disenfranchised and either left or stopped spending money on the game. Anet went back and redid HOT and came up with the story/zone strategy which seems to be working. That's what the game is centered on, because that's where they updates seem to be most prolific and it matches Anet's statement of attempting to create a living breathing world. The game was defined just fine before HoT. It's why when HoT launched you saw so much outrage. It didn't fit the existing definition of the game.

This game fills a niche that virtually no other game fills. That's why it remains popular, even with all it's issues, 6 years after launch. It's because they're starting to figure out which side their bread is buttered on. Not so many raids, not so many fractals, but plenty of collections and mount skins, and stuff for casual players. That's where the game seems to be focused.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

For people who play the game I play, there's Guild Wars 2 and maybe ESO. The competition for a specific playstyle is a lot less.

That means everyone who is interested in a game that's basically open world PVP has a host of games. People who are interested in a predominantly raiding game have plenty of competition. This game has a general competition when it comes to MMOs, but it fills a niche very few games can compete with.Did you notice you never defined what GW2 is? What's it's strong point, niche or identity?It is a jack of all trades, but more and more it's becoming master of none, and that might hurt the game in the future. Especially because Arena Net is, apparently, abandoning their initial momentum and will to innovate, and are settling into a set pace with a very formulaic development, that, the further it continues, the more it hurts the game.

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

For people who play the game I play, there's Guild Wars 2 and maybe ESO. The competition for a specific playstyle is a lot less.

That means everyone who is interested in a game that's basically open world PVP has a host of games. People who are interested in a predominantly raiding game have plenty of competition. This game has a general competition when it comes to MMOs, but it fills a niche very few games can compete with.Did you notice you never defined what GW2 is? What's it's strong point, niche or identity?It is a jack of all trades, but more and more it's becoming master of none, and that might hurt the game in the future. Especially because Arena Net is, apparently, abandoning their initial momentum and will to innovate, and are settling into a set pace with a very formulaic development, that, the further it continues, the more it hurts the game.

But is an an identity. It's still a world that's always changing, if nothing else by growth. Collections are like scavenger hunts. Exploration is encouraged. It's a cooperative open world game, that happens to have some instances in it. You can say that's not an identity but it's absolutely an identity to me. It's funny, that if raids were the most supported content, people would say that it's a raiding game. But if open world is the most supported content, people wont' say it's an open world game.

Anet saw HoT as having repeatable content, and they were right. And what is it really? A shorter story and four open world metas event chains, plus daytime event chains as well (which used to be part of that meta system as well). PoF was largely all open world exploration.

Just passing... I don't really feel like the game is a giant living breathing world anymore, sure we have living story episodes and mounts gliders etc, but it's just not the same as Living season 1, I never felt anything like I felt in LS1: Fear, fun, joy, mystery... They succeeded in recently with the Season 4 Episode 2, ABITS brought back for me some tensions and suspense but not as much as LS1. During this period of HoT I left the game but return 1 year later. I love the core maps of the game, and maps kinda lost their souls since with HoT and PoF.... Look at bounty, I hope it's fun for some players, but for me it's a total gap filler and useless content, whereas they could have put more quests or vistas or PoI cause I love exploration and map completion. I don't want that much... I just want some cool little things to bite in... Asura telling a strange dialog, an NPC telling you the origin of the area... Jumping puzzles.... A real interaction with this virtual world.

What shock me a lot too, is the amount of locations locked behind a story step or an annoying invisible wall! For me you can't define a gamemode as open-world if you can't explore everything.

@hugo.4705 said:Just passing... I don't really feel like the game is a giant living breathing world anymore, sure we have living story episodes and mounts gliders etc, but it's just not the same as Living season 1, I never felt anything like I felt in LS1: Fear, fun, joy, mystery... They succeeded in recently with the Season 4 Episode 2, ABITS brought back for me some tensions and suspense but not as much as LS1. During this period of HoT I left the game but return 1 year later. I love the core maps of the game, and maps kinda lost their souls since with HoT and PoF.... Look at bounty, I hope it's fun for some players, but for me it's a total gap filler and useless content, whereas they could have put more quests or vistas or PoI cause I love exploration and map completion. I don't want that much... I just want some cool little things to bite in... Asura telling a strange dialog, an NPC telling you the origin of the area... Jumping puzzles.... A real interaction with this virtual world.

Oh I agree, that Living World Season 1 was better at making the world living, at the expense of pissing off every single person who wasn't there, who wanted to experience that content. At the expense of people who take a year break and come back and only have the current content as new content. It had to be changed. But while it's not as living the core game, the idea of organic gameplay remains strong, just not as strong. It's STILL the focus. All the little side quests, and side dialogue. All the little exploration niches. It's the bulk of the content provided.

That doesn't mean LS 1 didn't do a better job of providing a living world for people who were there. But the stated goal hasn't changed. The focus is still the open world.

Agreed with you there, they are still focused on openworld due to the updates and creations of new maps, collections, fractals and stories. But I will define it very fast and simply: The amount don't define the quality. Of course they are releasing more and more contents but not as detailed as before: Metrica province, students colleges at south-west: If you picked a specific college you could find your name on an abandoned desk, this will not be the case in future maps, no link with your character story nor the world in where you are leaving it kinda break the illusion.

Don't forget there are also players who want to be a 'jack of all trades' and want a game that supports that. People who want to be able to do both small and large scale PvP, group content, story, open-world, mini games etc. without having to commit to spending more time on any of those than they want. GW2 is perfect for that.

That's one of the main reasons I think Elder Scrolls Online will always be my 'secondary' MMO, even when I'm spending more time playing it than GW2. ESO is very focused on group content, particularly difficult content that really needs a regular, structured group to complete it, to the point where every other release is a pair of dungeons, each with hard mode and exclusive drops - which includes many of the best items in the game. Committing to ESO means committing to finding a group to regularly run dungeons and trials (raids) with and considering it's taken me almost 3 years to get around to doing my first raid in GW2 I think it's safe to say I'm never going to do that.

I like having dungeons and raids available to play, but I don't want a game which is focused on them or where I have to do that to progress in other areas. Same for PvP and WvW and even the story which is one of my favourite things to do. I like that GW2 doesn't define itself by focusing on just 1 area because by offering them all semi-equally it gives me the freedom to choose what I want to do today.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

I dont think its pof it self (the expansion box with its content) but rather arena net managing to actually release content for the masses soon after the exoansion. something that hot didnt have.

Also theres more titles in the mmo genre, BDO runescape as well as up and comming mmos such as Ashes of creation.

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:

But that's the problem that i stated, the new maps aren't living or breathing. They're static, stopped in time, within their own cannon.Up to HoT the game was living and breathing, Dry Top was the embodiment of how well the living world could be done. With us being allowed to explore it deeper and deeper with subsequent releases, and watch the old areas change as well, with the vines showing up, with new events and a different environment.That changed post-HoT. The world froze in time, with small exceptions through "Current Events".

To this day i believe se2 had the perfect balance between season 1 and 3/4. Having a format like se2's but with the production value we see in areas of se3-4's presentation and story telling coupled with current events spread between updates would elevate content updates in gw2 over most other mmos.

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

Good point, the terminology I used was incorrect for what I was trying to say.

The market is saturated, I fully agree. The market as a whole has shrunk too though, the time of MMOs being "the big thing" is over. Mobile games are the big thing now both in focus and revenue. Ease accessibility is the key word (Fortnite anyone?). MMOs have always been very difficult to get into, even if GW2 to a certain extent does this okayish, it's the just play MMO from all available (but falls flat in teaching players to go beyond pressing 1). Any company currently succeeding in this market does so by either being Blizzard, or having carved out a niche in the market which they cater to. As such it is nice to see GW2 and its business model working out.

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

I'd say it's both. The content drought after HoT was in my opinion more responsible for the decline in revenue than the actual expansion. Yes, more and more reliable updates has been working out better.

BDO is mostly a commercial failure in the western market or at least not the shining star many believed it to be, Ashes of Creation will be no different, nor will any other asian MMO which gets imported. Besides Star Citizen (lol at that one) no big western developer is aiming at releasing a new MMO soon (not that I know of).

These numbers actually look quite good. They are at the level of before HoT. So all in all I would say that PoF is a much more successful release for the game than HoT was.

It probably helped that mastery points are not as tricky to come by as in HoT and the maps are easier to navigate. HoT maps have their charm for sure, but I think for more casual or new players they can be very confusing and you can die a lot more easily there too.

So it seems that a more casual approach worked. Though I think that there is little draw to the main maps of the expansion once you're done there with the story and map completion. They aren't the best places for farming and the lack of map meta events probably doesn't help.

At the same time though the game is getting bigger and bigger and that was already problematic in GW1 and I think that GW2 is bigger than GW1 ever was. The next expansion could add Cantha but after that I wonder if it makes sense to keep going with expanding the game.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:It's even better when you consider that POF was half the price of Heart of Thorns. Game is doing fairly well. Not setting any records by any means, but five million bucks a month is fairly healthy for a six year old game, in my opinion anyway. Considering we're in the middle of an expansion cycle, this is probably a bit better than I expected.

Bdo had shortcommings but it over came them and its a point where its releasing massive free updates and even a remaster to the game's graphics.

Theres nothing to suggest that ashes is going to fail and according to staff hirings, communication with developers and milestones they've been doing great and have managed to become the biggest in developement kickstarter mmo rn.