Concerns about Elementalist - Page 10 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Concerns about Elementalist

17810121315

Comments

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What it comes down to me is when you take other classes skill and look at how they compare to ele. Often the other classes skills do more effect dmg and are on lower cd as well as being on a class whom will always have more armor or hp then ele. Its sicking how badly ele and other classes are balanced in this game.

    My biggest problem is FB vs tempest or manta vs shouts. At best a shout on tempest will only be on part with one use of a manta (most of the time its worst) but manta have 3 use and the 3ed use may put it on a much longer cd but as such a significant effect that you could easily replaces 3 skills tempest with one FB with just on manta.

    Clears are the best example at best you can pull off 3 clears on shouts that fire water tempest set up where your getting a clear on the aura an clear on the reg from the aura and the shout rune. Mantra of Lore clears 2 condis with a reg on a 12 sec cd with 3 use 3ed being a big Conditions Converted to Boons 5. That with one trate line and one skill. Where ele must have one skill one rune set and 3 trate lines.

    Lets add that FB has stab and quickness support something tempest dose not as well as being much more tankly and has more passive support effects.

    How is this fair at any level?

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Plus near perma weakness application to mitigate. Eles don't have that many blocks either, not on weapon skill anyway, and the only invuln is Focus Earth 5, nobody takes Mist Form as a utility. Taking Focus means poor mobility/damage and you cant pressure enough to force a retreat. In the end you die anyway. Oh and let's not forget ele rooting forever lasting cast times with biggest tells in the history of the franchise. And no quickness of course.

  • TheDevice.2751TheDevice.2751 Member ✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    no, they have real immunity to condis.....
    Putrid Mark
    Deathly Swarm
    Consume Conditions
    Plague Signet

    thats not real immunity to conditions. Those all have have cast times and/or have to land on enemies. If we're blinded or if they evade/block or idk.. have diamond skin.. hows that go again? Nice try though.

    traits:
    spiteful renewal
    plague sending
    shrouded removal
    necromantic corruption
    unholy martyr
    speed of shadows
    relentless pursuit
    abravisve grit

    yet diamond skin and water still outclasses any condi removal on necro since, again, you need a target for half that stuff. Half the time they don't work.

    for evade:
    Fleshwurm
    Ripple of Horror

    flesh worm isnt an evade. it also requires a set-up and so it will hardly every be used twice in a drawn-out fight (because of attrition?)

    maybe play necro first

  • Arkaile.5604Arkaile.5604 Member ✭✭✭

    @TheDevice.2751 While he worded his post poorly, the point I take away is that necro has an easier time dealing with condis and it isn't necessarily required to take specific trait lines, giving up damage, in order to have reasonable condi cleansing. He forgot to list some utilities, btw. Necros have an easier time including cleanses (or transfer), damage, and sustain in one build without crippling their efficacy. Good luck making condis stick to and kill a necro if it actually focuses its build on condi cleansing and sustain.

    As for Diamond Skin, I suggest you read up on it. You seem to be behind the times, way behind. Here's a link for your convenience.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diamond_Skin

    We're talking about the squishiest class in the game having to take hits to remove one condi at a time while remaining above 75% hp for the trait to trigger on a 1sec icd. It's rarely used in challenging settings and with good reason. Even when it is taken, that is only done because it's the best of the worst.

    Maybe play ele first.

    SHINIES!

  • zHasgard.9827zHasgard.9827 Member ✭✭
    edited October 8, 2018

    Wow, this topic still alive. Guys, for real... anet dont care about balance, just sit and wait for next 3 months and pray for those little changes may affect weaver gameplay in like 1 year.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zHasgard.9827 said:
    Wow, this topic still alive. Guys, for real... anet dont care about balance, just sit and wait for next 3 months and pray for those little changes may affect weaver gameplay in like 1 year.

    With all honesty, PvE ele balance improved noticeably with the Air line changes. So yeah, they do care.

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭

    people still trying to make suggestions in this thread? it's basically balance team's spam folder at this point.

    it's highly likely that people can make all sorts of comments trash talking the team in here that will usually get them banned but it doesnt happen because this thread (and this subforum) is likely set to be hidden from display on dev team's UI

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @zHasgard.9827 said:
    Wow, this topic still alive. Guys, for real... anet dont care about balance, just sit and wait for next 3 months and pray for those little changes may affect weaver gameplay in like 1 year.

    With all honesty, PvE ele balance improved noticeably with the Air line changes. So yeah, they do care.

    That's all well and good but i wish anet would understand that PvP and WvW exist in this game too.. I'd like to play Ele in these game modes and feel like i'm doing something

    Yeah well, I can get behind you on that. But it doesn't mean they don't care, simply that the problem is more complex in pvp environment.

  • Usagi.4835Usagi.4835 Member ✭✭
    edited October 8, 2018

    3 characters too short.

  • Nepster.4275Nepster.4275 Member ✭✭✭

    This thread has its use, and its doing a great job: People spam their ideas to one place instead of multiple threads so its easier to see what to not read

  • @Zuko.7132 said:
    Elementalist is in a bad place in pvp for two reasons.
    1. Elementalist base stats and active defenses are terrible forcing eles to run survivability amulets, which makes them useless
    2. Elementalists don't do anything better than another profession can and have weak traits.

    How to fix?

    • Give each core trait line a purpose that provides a viable role for ele.
    • Boost Elementalist survivability through trait lines

    Fire
    Fire trait line will be focused around might/damage, auras, and boon removal

    • Minor Traits
    1. Burning Precision: 50% Chance on crit to inflict burning for 2 seconds, 3 sec icd per enemy,
    2. Sunspot: Same as before except it now removes a boon from all enemies it hits.
    3. Burning Rage: keep the same, but add burning a foe grants 10 endurance, 5 sec icd
    • Adept
    1. Empowering Aura: Auras grant 200 power, effect does not stack
    2. Extreme Might10 extra Power and Condition Damage per might stack for ele only
    3. Cleansing Flames: Burning an enemy removes a boon, 5 sec icd per enemy
    • Master
    1. Pyromancers Training, keep the same,
    2. Smoothering Auras: keep the same, but add removing a condition from an ally grants 10 endurance
    3. Cauterize: Removing a boon inflicts damage
    • Grandmaster
    1. Burning Strength: Gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you burn a foe. 2 sec icd. Deal 10% more damage while under the effects of might.
    2. Explosive Purification: Create a fire explosion when striking a burning enemy that deals damage and removes 5 boons from all enemies hit. 15 sec icd.
    3. Powerful Aura: Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies, auras grant fury and might

    Air
    Air trait line will be focused on vulnerability, cc, mobility, and critical damage

    • Minor
    1. Zephyr's Speed: Keep the 25% movement speed buff but also add 3 seconds of superspeed upon attuning to air.
    2. Electric Discharge: Keep the Same
    3. Raging Storm: keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Zephyr's boon: Fury grants an extra 10% crit chance
    2. Crippling Weakness: Applying Weakness inflicts cripple and 3 stacks of vuln for 3 seconds
    3. Speedy Demise: Deal 7% more damage while under the effects of superspeed
    • Master
    1. Aeromancers Training: Keep the same
    2. Tempest Defense: Keep the same
    3. Inscription: Keep the same, but add casting a glyph grants a buff to nearby allies that causes their next 3 attacks cast Electric discharge
    • Grandmaster
    1. Fresh air: keep the same
    2. Lighting rod: keep the same, but add electric discharge dazes for 1 second
    3. Bolt to the Heart: Electric discharge now applies 7 stacks of vuln for 10 seconds and Critical hits have a 50% chance to cast electric discharge 3 sec icd, the Electric Discharge applies a five second effect on your target that increases your damage to them by 15%

    Earth
    Earth trait line will be focused on personal protection, stability, signets, blasts, and condition protection

    • Minor
    1. Protective Blast: Gain Protection for 3 seconds when performing a blast finisher
    2. Earthen Blast: keep the same but is now a blast finisher
    3. Geomancer's defense: Keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Elemental Shielding: keep the same
    2. Earth's embrace: keep the same
    3. Stable Signet: Signets grant 1 stack of stability for four seconds
    • Master
    1. Geomancer's Training: keep the same
    2. Rock Solid: Gain stability on attuning to earth, stability grants 200 toughness
    3. Punishing Blast: Blast finishes cripple and weaken foes for 2 seconds
    • Grandmaster
    1. Stone Heart: Protection reduces critical damage to the elementalist by 33% aoe 5 sec weakness when critically hit, 20 sec icd
    2. Written in Stone: Keep the same
    3. Diamond Skin: Remove a condition when struck while under the effects of protection receive 33% less condition damage while under the effects of protection(3 sec icd)

    Water
    Water trait line is focused around support through healing, condition hate, and chill

    • Minor
    1. Soothing Mist: keep the same
    2. Healing Ripple: keep the same
    3. Aquatic Healing: Healing is 15% more effective both to allies and you
    • Adept
    1. Soothing Ice: Keep the Same
    2. Conditional Healing: Heal yourself and allies 2% more for each condition on them or you
    3. Stop, Drop, and Roll: Dodging removes a damaging and non-damaging condition from nearby allies
    • Master
    1. Soothing Disruption: Keep the Same but boons are now aoe
    2. Cool Relief: Foes you chill pulse healing to allies while chilled
    3. Aquamancers training: Keep the same, but remove damage boost and add remove condi from allies on water attune
    • Grandmaster
    1. Cleansing Water: Keep the same
    2. Soothing Power: Soothing Mist is 100% more effective, Healing to allies is 25% more effective
    3. Chilling Vulnerability: Gain frost aura for 4 seconds on attuning to water, Applying chill applies 3 stacks of vulnerablity for 8 seconds, Vulnerability now reduces the damage the enemy deals instead of increasing the damage they take

    Arcane
    Arcane trait line focuses on boons, evasion, arcanes skills, and random stuff

    • Minor
    1. Arcane Prowess: keep as is
    2. Elemental Attunement: Keep as is
    3. Elemental Enchantment: Keep as is
    • Adept
    1. Renewing stamina: keep as is
    2. Arcane Precision: keep as is
    3. Arcane Abatement: increase healing
    • Master
    1. Arcane Ressurection: Good for support I guess, leave alone.
    2. Elemental Contingency: leave as is
    3. Final Shielding: Leave as is
    • Grandmaster
    1. Evasive Arcana: Leave as is
    2. Elemental Surge: Leave as is
    3. Bountiful Strength: Deal increased damage for each boon you have. Gain 2 endurance when you gain a boon.

    Tempest
    Do tempest stuff better

    • Minor
    1. Singularity: Keep the same
    2. Stable Conduit: Gain stability when starting an overload
    3. Hardy Conduit: Keep the same
    • Adept
    1. Unstable Conduit: keep the same
    2. Latent Stamina: Applying vigor grants 20 stamina, Gain Vigor when starting and completing an overload.
    3. Gale Song: Keep as is, but add shouts grants 3 seconds of quickness and 5 seconds of swiftness
    • Master
    1. Invigorating Torrents: Keep as is
    2. Tempestuous Aria: Reduce shout cooldown by 20% the next attack of allies affected by a shout inflict 3 seconds of cripple and weakness and slow
    3. Speedy Conduit: Overloads are available two seconds earlier and channel 25% faster
    • Grandmaster
    1. Unstoppable Singularity: keep as is, but add overloads grant superspeed and inflict cripple chill and immob for 3 seconds upon completion.
    2. Elemental Bastion: keep as is
    3. Imbued Melodies: Gain 300 concentration, completing an overload grants Protection, aegis, stability, and regen for 3 seconds to allies.

    Weaver
    Don't really know what to do with this, but I have a few ideas.

    • Woven stride: Gaining swiftness or superspeed removes condis, nix the regen, heal while under the effects of swiftness
    • Boost barrier application all around

    I like a lot of these ideas, but there are some, especially for tempest, i´d like to suggest.
    When I compare tempest to weaver, then I see the possibility for ele to play either support (with tempest) Or pure dmg (with weaver), since the dmg output from tempest is far behind the dmg outpot from weaver.
    But when I look at most used support classes like chrono/druid in pve, or firebrand in pvp/wvw, I come to notice that they just have to sneeze into their party to grant them a quantouple amount of boons.
    So with tempest I wonder why the overcharges won´t be able to grant boons to allies surrounding the ele?
    For example overload earth may grant stability, protection and resistance to party members, overload air applies swiftness, quickness and alacrity, overloading water removes conditions while granting regen and vigor, and overloading fire grants fury, might and retaliation.
    These boons may have a duration of 3sec with four ticks while overcharging. This may seem strong, but if I think about the duration of the cast the overcharges have, this seems most reasonable to me.
    Further to the transmuting of auras. This was a nice idea, but why can´t tempest transmute the auras applied by shouts with the shouts? this would underline the aura-aspect from tempest and make the shouts feel like something. For now the shouts don´t appear rather strong to me as you have to watch multiple synergetic aspects fro other traitlines as well to take great use of them. Transmuting auras on all affected allies would give the entire thing a complete different feeling^.^

    As for weaver, I´m actually quite happy with this class in pve, but the dmg got nerfed a bit too vast compared to the skill it needs to master. While I´m quite thankful for the ability to play sword dagger to deal damage, the nerfs on staff were ridiculous at some point. the viability of scepter is very debatable, same goes to dagger mainhand.
    In pvp I come to wonder why weaver needs to perform either as fresh air, which isn´t really a rewarding way of playing it, or as a sword/dagger hybrid. Which may be a bit sturdier, but the work this weaver can do is better performed by other classes. In roaming a mesmer or thief works better, same goes with spellbreaker/soulbeast, and in team fights it gets outperformed by holosmith/scourge. Fighting against a deadeye is a pain in the butt, but this is something many classes have to experience^^. So you have the opportunity to choose either mediocre burst damage, which is mostly done better by mesmer or engineer, or you´re tanky but not as tanky as a druid/soulbeat/spellbreaker, compelling you to linger with mediocre viablity during the entire match.

    As for arcane, I agree that most of the traits are fine the way they are, but I wonder whether elemental contingency could be changed, causing the boons you generate to affect more allied targets, so the boons you generate can affect 10 allied targets. The ability to affect 10 targets is something i´d like to see in more professions in general. Give the scourge the ability to apply barrier to 10 targets, give the firebrand the ability to grant his boons to 10 targets, same goes to tempest. We saw the beginning of this in the herald changes. I´d love to see the acceptance of more support classes in raids except for druid.

  • @LightBrave.5638 said:
    The problems with WvW for Tempest support are that they are boxed out in their class. Like the other support classes FB currently holds far too much weight over any other support class to hold ENOUGH value. Hence the phrase, "meta or gtfo". All support classes need boosting in general in wvw so people have options for support classes besides FB. I would like to see a barrier option added to AURAS. This would be a good rework for auras in general. If that sounds too unreasonable then a general reworking for auras in any form would be appreciated. You could add longer aura uptime, or shorter uptime but 10 targets. I feel for tempest, overloading and auras are the two areas that need buffing for wvw as thats what made them unique. The reason why i targeted support for wvw is obvious, people in general are getting tired of running 2 FB groups in wvw. It's a class that has to be played full minstrel and you spend all your time in books 2 and 3 and then even supporting with all your utilities and weapon skills. Support tempest was a good edition but it got outclasses in POF. Either buff Weaver support OPTIONS significantly at the expense of their damage output, or bring back core/hot support.

    Thatswhy I don't have legendary armor yet....meta or gtfo. No one takes ele if they got a fb

  • XenoSpyro.1780XenoSpyro.1780 Member ✭✭✭

    How to fix ele staff 101: Allow autoattack missiles to track targets, increase auto base speed 20%.

  • Allarius.5670Allarius.5670 Member ✭✭✭

    Scepter lacks sufficient defensive mechanisms to provide alternative playstyles and suffers from long delays on damage skills to provide realistic counter offense. This has consistently forced scepter into Fresh Air to see any major use and consequently restricts viable build alternatives for the Elementalist.

    A few suggestions to improve scepter playability in competitive modes by increasing defensive options to improve its viability and role diversity when compared to dagger with minimal impact on PvE.

    Fire, Scepter 2: Ashen Armor - 2 sec channel, 10 sec cd. Block the next attack and counter by burning and blinding nearby foes.
    Damage: (1.00)
    Burn (5 sec)
    Blind (5 sec)
    Number of Targets: 5
    Evade: 1/2 sec
    Block Duration: 2 sec
    Radius: 240

    Fire, Scepter 2 sequence: Dragon's Tooth

    Water, Scepter 2: Shatterstone - 1/2 sec cast, 5 sec cd. Cast a shatterstone that will chill foes and make them vulnerable when they trigger it.
    Damage: (1.66)
    Vulnerability: 5, 15 sec
    Chill: 1 sec
    Arming Time: 1 sec
    Duration: 15 sec
    Number of Targets: 5
    Radius: 180
    Blast Radius: 240
    Range: 900

    Rock Barrier cast time reduced from 1 sec to 1/2 sec and cooldown reduced from 15 sec to 10 sec.

    Earth, Scepter 3: Sand Shield - 2 sec channel, 15 sec cooldown. Block the next attack and grant nearby allies a barrier.
    Barrier: 778 (0.18)
    Tectonic Shift: 2 sec, Gain barrier each second.
    Evade: 1/2 sec
    Block Duration: 2 sec
    Number of Allies: 5
    Radius: 240

    Earth, Scepter 3 sequence: Dust Devil - Bleed and Blind your foes with a blast of sand.
    Damage: (0.4)
    Bleed: 3, 8 sec
    Blind: 10 sec
    Piercing
    Number of Targets: 5
    Range: 900

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2018

    @Allarius.5670 said:
    Scepter lacks sufficient defensive mechanisms to provide alternative playstyles and suffers from long delays on damage skills to provide realistic counter offense. This has consistently forced scepter into Fresh Air to see any major use and consequently restricts viable build alternatives for the Elementalist.

    A few suggestions to improve scepter playability in competitive modes by increasing defensive options to improve its viability and role diversity when compared to dagger with minimal impact on PvE.

    Fire, Scepter 2: Ashen Armor - 2 sec channel, 10 sec cd. Block the next attack and counter by burning and blinding nearby foes.
    Damage: (1.00)
    Burn (5 sec)
    Blind (5 sec)
    Number of Targets: 5
    Evade: 1/2 sec
    Block Duration: 2 sec
    Radius: 240

    Fire, Scepter 2 sequence: Dragon's Tooth

    Water, Scepter 2: Shatterstone - 1/2 sec cast, 5 sec cd. Cast a shatterstone that will chill foes and make them vulnerable when they trigger it.
    Damage: (1.66)
    Vulnerability: 5, 15 sec
    Chill: 1 sec
    Arming Time: 1 sec
    Duration: 15 sec
    Number of Targets: 5
    Radius: 180
    Blast Radius: 240
    Range: 900

    Rock Barrier cast time reduced from 1 sec to 1/2 sec and cooldown reduced from 15 sec to 10 sec.

    Earth, Scepter 3: Sand Shield - 2 sec channel, 15 sec cooldown. Block the next attack and grant nearby allies a barrier.
    Barrier: 778 (0.18)
    Tectonic Shift: 2 sec, Gain barrier each second.
    Evade: 1/2 sec
    Block Duration: 2 sec
    Number of Allies: 5
    Radius: 240

    Earth, Scepter 3 sequence: Dust Devil - Bleed and Blind your foes with a blast of sand.
    Damage: (0.4)
    Bleed: 3, 8 sec
    Blind: 10 sec
    Piercing
    Number of Targets: 5
    Range: 900

    I never thought of it but it does make you wonder why scepter has two blinds in Air and Earth, yet we have no blocks. Mesmer scepter has at least one block. If the Dev's take at least one suggestion from this post, at least give Ashen Armor or Sand shield mentioned above- give us a little bit of defense.

  • Hmmm, I really love my Elem, I really do and it is my main class since I started the game 6 years ago but..... I have been trying out a variety different classes PvE builds on the Meta battle website site and I have to say that everyone of them, compared to the Elem, have amazing self sustain and damage output with very little button presses while all wearing zerker armour. Even using the PvE Tempest build on the website just doesn't seem as good as the other classes. I know it's just PvE, but hey that's what I like and I'm very aware of the Elem's problems in PvP and WvW so don't hate me for it. It just feels like you have to try twice as hard on an Elem to get the same amount of damage and survivability as the other classes and if you make one mistake on your elem, it's dirt nap time. After playing the Soulbeast boon berserker for the last few hours, I kinda feel that it makes me want to say bye-bye to my Elem as the Soulbeast class was ridiculously good. I really do hope that Anet sorts out our class as it just feels so lacking and I don't envy them in trying to fix it but I do know it needs fixing. I really think the Jack of all trades and master of none has done this class no favours as the game has moved on from its original vision and concepts that allowed the class to shine.

  • I think ... and Im really sad for that reason... that our friends from ANEt are not interested in that post anymore.... and in anyother simillar posts that touch any topic about reconstructing, buffing elementalist. Only they notice posts about nerfing elementalists. Sad :(

    I feel like Boon Master. No! Wait! I'm elementalist...

  • Kako.1930Kako.1930 Member ✭✭✭

    @Milosz.5938 said:
    I think ... and Im really sad for that reason... that our friends from ANEt are not interested in that post anymore.... and in anyother simillar posts that touch any topic about reconstructing, buffing elementalist. Only they notice posts about nerfing elementalists. Sad :(

    They never were. These posts were taken from various other areas that might get more attention, merged together, and stuck here so that nobody has to look at them. It's sad to see people keep posting as if someone is actually reading them.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2018

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @Milosz.5938 said:
    I think ... and Im really sad for that reason... that our friends from ANEt are not interested in that post anymore.... and in anyother simillar posts that touch any topic about reconstructing, buffing elementalist. Only they notice posts about nerfing elementalists. Sad :(

    They never were. These posts were taken from various other areas that might get more attention, merged together, and stuck here so that nobody has to look at them. It's sad to see people keep posting as if someone is actually reading them.

    Yeah, it was a clever trick, I'll give them that. Fake some attention, wait it out... at some point ele players must give up, right? We're past that now.^^

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kako.1930 said:

    @Milosz.5938 said:
    I think ... and Im really sad for that reason... that our friends from ANEt are not interested in that post anymore.... and in anyother simillar posts that touch any topic about reconstructing, buffing elementalist. Only they notice posts about nerfing elementalists. Sad :(

    They never were. These posts were taken from various other areas that might get more attention, merged together, and stuck here so that nobody has to look at them. It's sad to see people keep posting as if someone is actually reading them.

    Maining ele is being masochistic by nature, to begin with.

  • Maining ele is being masochistic by nature, to begin with.

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnd ur absolutly right on that one....probably most weavers on WvW are insane masoshists....including me XD. no wonder weaver is off meta ...:(

    Born into the battlefield...For the glory of WvW !

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Right the winds of disenchantment nerf is going to hit staff ele hard in wvw as it has no means on its own to deal with boons so this thread is pointless start to post on others forms types keep smart about how you word it.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Maybe if we put here 1 000 000 000 of comments someone from GMs will start to think to do something to make playing elementalist in PVE non-masochistic, suicidal style... Trolo lolo lo

    I feel like Boon Master. No! Wait! I'm elementalist...

  • Milosz.5938Milosz.5938 Member ✭✭
    edited October 21, 2018

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Thank you to everyone participating in this thread with meaningful and well-thought feedback. I have one request: When you post, could you make it clear what game mode(s) you're writing about? I noticed that a lot of you did -- like Megametzler, Nightmare, and Nicenikeshoe -- and Agrippa's comment made me realize that in order to most accurately assess the recommendations and feedback, it's good to know the context and your point of view.

    Thanks.

    Of course.... PVE
    I put already few posts here... and one of them with Trolo lolo lo :) Very nice song btw with Saruman. You can find it in Youtube.
    OK.
    Now serously, is there really chances to make something with "life pull" hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe sorry I almost crying saying that "life pull" of elementalist. Ele has the lowest health point.... and no defence... please tell me then (maybe i didn't notice since my only one year of playing ele) how I can survive meeting with POF (random) hydra for example, how I can kill stronger then rabbit monster without fear of death?. Or maybe place for Ele is in main maps (Tyria) and better do not go to any other? Also better do your story (living world) with party (with anyone else)? Or at the end... after playing 1K+ hours (only ele), trying and giving chances to ele (and only) one year, put money in him... gave up and continue as other profession... ? Yeah, it's easy to say - to give up. But I don't want to.
    Thank you very much.

    Post scriptum: :( I really like ele anyway... antique tragedy

    I feel like Boon Master. No! Wait! I'm elementalist...

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Right the winds of disenchantment nerf is going to hit staff ele hard in wvw as it has no means on its own to deal with boons so this thread is pointless start to post on others forms types keep smart about how you word it.

    I literally just released a video today with clips of me playing weaver post-bubble nerf and weaver plays exaaaactly the same way it used to. Still top DPS, still generating & eliminating downs, still surviving fights really well overall. I realize I'm going to get flamed for saying this and thats cool cause you can just watch me do it if you don't believe me but I'm not going to lie to you - you get what you give, competent weavers won't even notice a difference.

    My response in general about this thread: I'm honestly more afraid that anet will nerf ele. A single good weaver can turn the tide of a battle right now and it's been like that since PoF release (source: watch literally any competent weaver on youtube do their thing). The only people who will say ele isn't OP as hell in WvW right now are people who either don't play it or aren't great at it/die frequently because they have a poor build or can't predict enemy movement well enough. As for PvE it's the same story - ensure that you're running a reasonable build first of all, i.e. half marauder/half zerk with twist of fate + any other defensive utilities you feel like using if it helps, utilize dodging, utilize movement skills like burning retreat or lightning flash/twist of fate, and be smart about your engages/skill placement/enemy prediction. Then just practice.

    Point in case - elementalist rewards you for mastering the class. If you can't survive on it play something else, I love ele, I haven't stopped maining it since PoF release and I don't plan on stopping, it's an amazing class. (Again I'm expecting to be flamed for this but somebody had to say it, might as well be me)

    edit: I realize I made this post very WvW-centric and I just want to say that as far as PvP is concerned, I do agree that some changes could be made for PvP to make ele a bit more viable in general, but some builds are doing alright - check out what Cellofrag has been doing lately.

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | YouTube Wrath of God Staff Weaver |
    | Anvil Rock (main) | Crystal Desert (alt)

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Right the winds of disenchantment nerf is going to hit staff ele hard in wvw as it has no means on its own to deal with boons so this thread is pointless start to post on others forms types keep smart about how you word it.

    I literally just released a video today with clips of me playing weaver post-bubble nerf and weaver plays exaaaactly the same way it used to. Still top DPS, still generating & eliminating downs, still surviving fights really well overall. I realize I'm going to get flamed for saying this and thats cool cause you can just watch me do it if you don't believe me but I'm not going to lie to you - you get what you give, competent weavers won't even notice a difference.

    My response in general about this thread: I'm honestly more afraid that anet will nerf ele. A single good weaver can turn the tide of a battle right now and it's been like that since PoF release (source: watch literally any competent weaver on youtube do their thing). The only people who will say ele isn't OP as hell in WvW right now are people who either don't play it or aren't great at it/die frequently because they have a poor build or can't predict enemy movement well enough. As for PvE it's the same story - ensure that you're running a reasonable build first of all, i.e. half marauder/half zerk with twist of fate + any other defensive utilities you feel like using if it helps, utilize dodging, utilize movement skills like burning retreat or lightning flash/twist of fate, and be smart about your engages/skill placement/enemy prediction. Then just practice.

    Point in case - elementalist rewards you for mastering the class. If you can't survive on it play something else, I love ele, I haven't stopped maining it since PoF release and I don't plan on stopping, it's an amazing class. (Again I'm expecting to be flamed for this but somebody had to say it, might as well be me)

    edit: I realize I made this post very WvW-centric and I just want to say that as far as PvP is concerned, I do agree that some changes could be made for PvP to make ele a bit more viable in general, but some builds are doing alright - check out what Cellofrag has been doing lately.

    Dps readers do not get the full pic of what going on for dmg. You can trick them and often eles do due to doing dmg vs down players. You need to do hard to deal with dmg condis soft cc dmg or unblockable dmg with out that you need things like winds of disenchantment and scorge to make the weaver dmg worth it.

    YouTube is about views dont base your views on the games balance from that i hope anet dose not think this way too lol.

    Weaves dmg is to easy to deal with to get nerfed in wvw any more now it can be nerfed due to pve and for what ever reason ele of all classes is much more effected by pve balancing in wvw and spvp.

    Ele is an all risk class with superficial rewards the reality is an avag dmg class that needs other classes to do the hard work for it.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    edit: I realize I made this post very WvW-centric and I just want to say that as far as PvP is concerned, I do agree that some changes could be made for PvP to make ele a bit more viable in general, but some builds are doing alright - check out what Cellofrag has been doing lately.

    I can edit videos and only put the good vids out too, Cellofrag isn't amazing

    Aside from that, I agree that Ele still holds it's place in WvW since there will be less Warriors around but more Scourges for the boon rip

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    I miss my 6K lava fonts

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    I can edit videos and only put the good vids out too, Cellofrag isn't amazing

    Aside from picking the more interesting fights as opposed to just videos of wrecking random smaller groups since no one wants to watch that anyway, if you think those are cherry picked clips then with all due respect that just says more about your own experience with this game. Yes I'll admit many of cellofrag's clips are average fights for anyone who is competent. I sincerely don't mean to come off as ego-stroking, but in an attempt to prove my point, I will mention that in-game I'm consistently top DPS nearly 80-85% of the time when it comes to real full-on fights both in d/ps and total %dmg (yes I look at it during every single fight) I'm almost always on the ball with my gameplay and by now I have way too many videos uploaded for it to be cherry picking so I reeeeeally don't mind if you want to say someone necessarily has to be cherry picking their clips dude! I live that experience out every single day, not just the days I make videos.

    Weaver is indisputably top dog for generating downs and breaking frontlines up so that the melee train can push through. I can't even tell you how many times I've chained off skills quickly and watched the opposing frontline crumble. Honestly I've only seen a few handfuls, maybe 15-20 other weavers who can even pull it off that I know of, but you're just doing yourself and your guild(s) a disservice by not recognizing the true DPS meta. You just need the right people to be on the right classes. Weaver is NOT for everyone and there are many ele mains who would be better off (in terms of maximizing success) playing Rev or Scourge, unless they're more casually oriented in which case fair enough. inb4 I get flamed for telling the truth.

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | YouTube Wrath of God Staff Weaver |
    | Anvil Rock (main) | Crystal Desert (alt)

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    I can edit videos and only put the good vids out too, Cellofrag isn't amazing

    Aside from picking the more interesting fights as opposed to just videos of wrecking random smaller groups since no one wants to watch that anyway, if you think those are cherry picked clips then with all due respect that just says more about your own experience with this game. Yes I'll admit many of cellofrag's clips are average fights for anyone who is competent. I sincerely don't mean to come off as ego-stroking, but in an attempt to prove my point, I will mention that in-game I'm consistently top DPS nearly 80-85% of the time when it comes to real full-on fights both in d/ps and total %dmg (yes I look at it during every single fight) I'm almost always on the ball with my gameplay and by now I have way too many videos uploaded for it to be cherry picking so I reeeeeally don't mind if you want to say someone necessarily has to be cherry picking their clips dude! I live that experience out every single day, not just the days I make videos.

    Weaver is indisputably top dog for generating downs and breaking frontlines up so that the melee train can push through. I can't even tell you how many times I've chained off skills quickly and watched the opposing frontline crumble. Honestly I've only seen a few handfuls, maybe 15-20 other weavers who can even pull it off that I know of, but you're just doing yourself and your guild(s) a disservice by not recognizing the true DPS meta. You just need the right people to be on the right classes. Weaver is NOT for everyone and there are many ele mains who would be better off (in terms of maximizing success) playing Rev or Scourge, unless they're more casually oriented in which case fair enough. inb4 I get flamed for telling the truth.

    Says it all really about why balancing is screwed and has been for a year 'consistently top DPS nearly 80-85% ' this is what the balance team seems to see, bloody meter numbers. dee pee eees has absolutely nothing to do with pvp beyond a meaningless spam behind the field in a zerg, i.e when facing a zerg of 40, your spam hitting 5 or so people who dont instantly dodge your aoe is meaningless pretty numbers. What makes pvp is the ability to compete in 1v1, spike individuals down fast, be able to hold in 1vx or be able to safely retreat.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:
    Says it all really about why balancing is screwed and has been for a year 'consistently top DPS nearly 80-85% ' this is what the balance team seems to see, bloody meter numbers. dee pee eees has absolutely nothing to do with pvp beyond a meaningless spam behind the field in a zerg, i.e when facing a zerg of 40, your spam hitting 5 or so people who dont instantly dodge your aoe is meaningless pretty numbers. What makes pvp is the ability to compete in 1v1, spike individuals down fast, be able to hold in 1vx or be able to safely retreat.

    I agree on your points regarding PvP but you should've read my post a little more carefully. I outlined how I frequently see enemy frontlines start immediately going down after I've chained off a few high-damage aoes in rapid succession. This was not an exaggeration. I have many videos to prove it works. My damage is not just a pretty number, it's effect is able to be confirmed visually. Everything around me dies and every guild I'm in, as well as a few other guilds I'm not part of/squads who know me well recognize that they are able to do a lot more when I'm around. In some squads I can consistently hit over 40% of the total zerg DPS [this is infrequent, but it does happen] ... if I'm doing almost half of an entire squad of 30's DPS, it's not just a 'meaningless number' ... that's a game changer. Again ... not ego-tripping. Just telling the truth. Weaver is effective. I have a toon for every class and used to main several others, it's not that I don't understand the importance of 1v1 combat or any of the other important things regarding pvp ... it's that weaver is genuinely OP as hell in WvW and sometimes it seems like nobody even knows it.

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | YouTube Wrath of God Staff Weaver |
    | Anvil Rock (main) | Crystal Desert (alt)

  • nobody cares about weaver dps when minstrel fbs and chronos can literally stand inside meteor showers and emote as long as their boons dont get removed by scourges/spellbreakers. weavers are useless without the help of various other meta classes.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @LazySummer.2568 said:
    nobody cares about weaver dps when minstrel fbs and chronos can literally stand inside meteor showers and emote as long as their boons dont get removed by scourges/spellbreakers. weavers are useless without the help of various other meta classes.

    Then you're casting your meteors on wrong targets. You have no business in damaging tanks when your biggest nuke has DR on it. Meteors still hits squishier targets quite hard and those are the enemy damage dealers; remove pressure and enemy supports have nothing to support.

    Supports are useless without damage dealers. Damage output is useless when enemy still rolls over you (there's no boon rip/corrupt/cc). Necros are useless without proper support. It's all team play, no class can work on their own in a wvw blob.

    Staff weaver performs perfectly fine in big zergs, the issue is that lots of skills are worthless/too slow and its main pressure comes from 1 or 2 skills. It makes sense on hammer rev since it doesn't have many dps skills, but ele has like 10-15 of them. The issue is that it's forced into semi support (any water skills, whose heal is quite low on dps builds) in every build so it sustain has to be awful to compensate. The issue is that despite having 95% of damage output from only 3 fire skills, you still need to swap attunements for CC, while almost completely losing damage output (due to damaging skills being unreliable) - with ~15 skills across 4 attunements you're basically doing the same thing rev does with 4 on just 1 weapon. The issue is that self boon sustain is weak/non existing. The issue is that good condi cleanse comes with huge loss in damage (water/arc traits) and/or loss in self sustain (ether renewal is both channel and weak heal; cleansing fire's offensive part has no use, but you're essentially losing a defensive utility skill).

    Winds nerf didn't impact eles negatively, it made all ranged builds better since there's a lot less projectile hate now. Dome wasnt stipping boons after 5 seconds anyway, it was mostly a zone control at that point, which is gone now.

    I'd rather have meteor shower on shorter cooldown, channel time, duration, less hits, but with weapon skills that are more responsive and execute faster instead of waiting 24 seconds to press 5 and run around trying to squeeze 10% of meteors' damage output with my whole kit and pretending I support allies (at least CC is great).

    @certain people in this thread: There's balance issues and l2p issues, don't mistake one for another. Ele is not really designed for spamming 5 buttons off cd like all other classes, so don't treat it like it's made as such. It's supposed to have high effort/reward ratio, but you make it sound like you want reward for no effort by complaining how weak ele is.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @steki.1478 said:

    @LazySummer.2568 said:
    nobody cares about weaver dps when minstrel fbs and chronos can literally stand inside meteor showers and emote as long as their boons dont get removed by scourges/spellbreakers. weavers are useless without the help of various other meta classes.

    Then you're casting your meteors on wrong targets. You have no business in damaging tanks when your biggest nuke has DR on it. Meteors still hits squishier targets quite hard and those are the enemy damage dealers; remove pressure and enemy supports have nothing to support.

    Supports are useless without damage dealers. Damage output is useless when enemy still rolls over you (there's no boon rip/corrupt/cc). Necros are useless without proper support. It's all team play, no class can work on their own in a wvw blob.

    Staff weaver performs perfectly fine in big zergs, the issue is that lots of skills are worthless/too slow and its main pressure comes from 1 or 2 skills. It makes sense on hammer rev since it doesn't have many dps skills, but ele has like 10-15 of them. The issue is that it's forced into semi support (any water skills, whose heal is quite low on dps builds) in every build so it sustain has to be awful to compensate. The issue is that despite having 95% of damage output from only 3 fire skills, you still need to swap attunements for CC, while almost completely losing damage output (due to damaging skills being unreliable) - with ~15 skills across 4 attunements you're basically doing the same thing rev does with 4 on just 1 weapon. The issue is that self boon sustain is weak/non existing. The issue is that good condi cleanse comes with huge loss in damage (water/arc traits) and/or loss in self sustain (ether renewal is both channel and weak heal; cleansing fire's offensive part has no use, but you're essentially losing a defensive utility skill).

    Winds nerf didn't impact eles negatively, it made all ranged builds better since there's a lot less projectile hate now. Dome wasnt stipping boons after 5 seconds anyway, it was mostly a zone control at that point, which is gone now.

    I'd rather have meteor shower on shorter cooldown, channel time, duration, less hits, but with weapon skills that are more responsive and execute faster instead of waiting 24 seconds to press 5 and run around trying to squeeze 10% of meteors' damage output with my whole kit and pretending I support allies (at least CC is great).

    @certain people in this thread: There's balance issues and l2p issues, don't mistake one for another. Ele is not really designed for spamming 5 buttons off cd like all other classes, so don't treat it like it's made as such. It's supposed to have high effort/reward ratio, but you make it sound like you want reward for no effort by complaining how weak ele is.

    yeah because scourges and firebrands are perfectly balanced where one just has to put down a shade and spam all F keys and wells, and nobody -- from fbs/chronos to squishies including eles can just face tank it, while as fb you just afk until they happened to get your boons removed then you spam utilities skills and pull out your broken tomes.

    keep preaching l2p when the """"learning"""" part is basically you not following the tag and camping at the sides hoping nobody sees and have your zerg do all the work of:
    1. drawing enemy's attention away from you
    2. removing boons for you
    3. buffing you with stability/fury/might/quickness/barriers
    4. ccing enemies for you
    5. removing chill & weakness from you

    no other classes are that reliant on the team and being able to sit in a highly telegraphed, long channeled, high cd skill and barely take a scratch no matter which target or build is quite kitten in my opinion

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @LazySummer.2568 said:
    nobody cares about weaver dps when minstrel fbs and chronos can literally stand inside meteor showers and emote as long as their boons dont get removed by scourges/spellbreakers. weavers are useless without the help of various other meta classes.

    Then you're casting your meteors on wrong targets. You have no business in damaging tanks when your biggest nuke has DR on it. Meteors still hits squishier targets quite hard and those are the enemy damage dealers; remove pressure and enemy supports have nothing to support.

    Supports are useless without damage dealers. Damage output is useless when enemy still rolls over you (there's no boon rip/corrupt/cc). Necros are useless without proper support. It's all team play, no class can work on their own in a wvw blob.

    Staff weaver performs perfectly fine in big zergs, the issue is that lots of skills are worthless/too slow and its main pressure comes from 1 or 2 skills. It makes sense on hammer rev since it doesn't have many dps skills, but ele has like 10-15 of them. The issue is that it's forced into semi support (any water skills, whose heal is quite low on dps builds) in every build so it sustain has to be awful to compensate. The issue is that despite having 95% of damage output from only 3 fire skills, you still need to swap attunements for CC, while almost completely losing damage output (due to damaging skills being unreliable) - with ~15 skills across 4 attunements you're basically doing the same thing rev does with 4 on just 1 weapon. The issue is that self boon sustain is weak/non existing. The issue is that good condi cleanse comes with huge loss in damage (water/arc traits) and/or loss in self sustain (ether renewal is both channel and weak heal; cleansing fire's offensive part has no use, but you're essentially losing a defensive utility skill).

    Winds nerf didn't impact eles negatively, it made all ranged builds better since there's a lot less projectile hate now. Dome wasnt stipping boons after 5 seconds anyway, it was mostly a zone control at that point, which is gone now.

    I'd rather have meteor shower on shorter cooldown, channel time, duration, less hits, but with weapon skills that are more responsive and execute faster instead of waiting 24 seconds to press 5 and run around trying to squeeze 10% of meteors' damage output with my whole kit and pretending I support allies (at least CC is great).

    @certain people in this thread: There's balance issues and l2p issues, don't mistake one for another. Ele is not really designed for spamming 5 buttons off cd like all other classes, so don't treat it like it's made as such. It's supposed to have high effort/reward ratio, but you make it sound like you want reward for no effort by complaining how weak ele is.

    yeah because scourges and firebrands are perfectly balanced where one just has to put down a shade and spam all F keys and wells, and nobody -- from fbs/chronos to squishies including eles can just face tank it, while as fb you just afk until they happened to get your boons removed then you spam utilities skills and pull out your broken tomes.

    keep preaching l2p when the """"learning"""" part is basically you not following the tag and camping at the sides hoping nobody sees and have your zerg do all the work of:
    1. drawing enemy's attention away from you
    2. removing boons for you
    3. buffing you with stability/fury/might/quickness/barriers
    4. ccing enemies for you
    5. removing chill & weakness from you

    no other classes are that reliant on the team and being able to sit in a highly telegraphed, long channeled, high cd skill and barely take a scratch no matter which target or build is quite kitten in my opinion

    After latest patch you don't even need to be part of squad to be effective. You get your own might and fury, it's just a lot slower without rev (who gets permanent boons with no effort). It's not main zerg who's drawing enemy's attention, it's ranged zerg who's damaging and zoning enemy. You're not even in range of enemy boon rips, if you're getting corrupted you're playing backline wrong. While I agree that quickness does make meteor shower a lot more effective, you can get healed from just walking through melee squad; you have your own defensive skills and stability (which you really only need for safe meteor). Chill/weakness is problem of every backline build, not just ele (those traits are quite ridiculous actually; cc reflect, taunt and weakness procs really need to go, or at least have range cap).

    Ele (and shiro rev) is barely reliant on team, that's why it's capable of clouding around enemy with almost no problem. Try doing that on necro and you'll see what I'm talking about. If you can survive retaliation, you don't need your team to babysit you at all.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @LazySummer.2568 said:
    nobody cares about weaver dps when minstrel fbs and chronos can literally stand inside meteor showers and emote as long as their boons dont get removed by scourges/spellbreakers. weavers are useless without the help of various other meta classes.

    Then you're casting your meteors on wrong targets. You have no business in damaging tanks when your biggest nuke has DR on it. Meteors still hits squishier targets quite hard and those are the enemy damage dealers; remove pressure and enemy supports have nothing to support.

    Supports are useless without damage dealers. Damage output is useless when enemy still rolls over you (there's no boon rip/corrupt/cc). Necros are useless without proper support. It's all team play, no class can work on their own in a wvw blob.

    Staff weaver performs perfectly fine in big zergs, the issue is that lots of skills are worthless/too slow and its main pressure comes from 1 or 2 skills. It makes sense on hammer rev since it doesn't have many dps skills, but ele has like 10-15 of them. The issue is that it's forced into semi support (any water skills, whose heal is quite low on dps builds) in every build so it sustain has to be awful to compensate. The issue is that despite having 95% of damage output from only 3 fire skills, you still need to swap attunements for CC, while almost completely losing damage output (due to damaging skills being unreliable) - with ~15 skills across 4 attunements you're basically doing the same thing rev does with 4 on just 1 weapon. The issue is that self boon sustain is weak/non existing. The issue is that good condi cleanse comes with huge loss in damage (water/arc traits) and/or loss in self sustain (ether renewal is both channel and weak heal; cleansing fire's offensive part has no use, but you're essentially losing a defensive utility skill).

    Winds nerf didn't impact eles negatively, it made all ranged builds better since there's a lot less projectile hate now. Dome wasnt stipping boons after 5 seconds anyway, it was mostly a zone control at that point, which is gone now.

    I'd rather have meteor shower on shorter cooldown, channel time, duration, less hits, but with weapon skills that are more responsive and execute faster instead of waiting 24 seconds to press 5 and run around trying to squeeze 10% of meteors' damage output with my whole kit and pretending I support allies (at least CC is great).

    @certain people in this thread: There's balance issues and l2p issues, don't mistake one for another. Ele is not really designed for spamming 5 buttons off cd like all other classes, so don't treat it like it's made as such. It's supposed to have high effort/reward ratio, but you make it sound like you want reward for no effort by complaining how weak ele is.

    yeah because scourges and firebrands are perfectly balanced where one just has to put down a shade and spam all F keys and wells, and nobody -- from fbs/chronos to squishies including eles can just face tank it, while as fb you just afk until they happened to get your boons removed then you spam utilities skills and pull out your broken tomes.

    keep preaching l2p when the """"learning"""" part is basically you not following the tag and camping at the sides hoping nobody sees and have your zerg do all the work of:
    1. drawing enemy's attention away from you
    2. removing boons for you
    3. buffing you with stability/fury/might/quickness/barriers
    4. ccing enemies for you
    5. removing chill & weakness from you

    no other classes are that reliant on the team and being able to sit in a highly telegraphed, long channeled, high cd skill and barely take a scratch no matter which target or build is quite kitten in my opinion

    After latest patch you don't even need to be part of squad to be effective. You get your own might and fury, it's just a lot slower without rev (who gets permanent boons with no effort). It's not main zerg who's drawing enemy's attention, it's ranged zerg who's damaging and zoning enemy. You're not even in range of enemy boon rips, if you're getting corrupted you're playing backline wrong. While I agree that quickness does make meteor shower a lot more effective, you can get healed from just walking through melee squad; you have your own defensive skills and stability (which you really only need for safe meteor). Chill/weakness is problem of every backline build, not just ele (those traits are quite ridiculous actually; cc reflect, taunt and weakness procs really need to go, or at least have range cap).

    Ele (and shiro rev) is barely reliant on team, that's why it's capable of clouding around enemy with almost no problem. Try doing that on necro and you'll see what I'm talking about. If you can survive retaliation, you don't need your team to babysit you at all.

    Eles own might and fury are build up effects so from MS your first hit will be with out only your 2ed hit or the ppl who are not your first target will be hit by the fury and might effect.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:
    Says it all really about why balancing is screwed and has been for a year 'consistently top DPS nearly 80-85% ' this is what the balance team seems to see, bloody meter numbers. dee pee eees has absolutely nothing to do with pvp beyond a meaningless spam behind the field in a zerg, i.e when facing a zerg of 40, your spam hitting 5 or so people who dont instantly dodge your aoe is meaningless pretty numbers. What makes pvp is the ability to compete in 1v1, spike individuals down fast, be able to hold in 1vx or be able to safely retreat.

    I agree on your points regarding PvP but you should've read my post a little more carefully. I outlined how I frequently see enemy frontlines start immediately going down after I've chained off a few high-damage aoes in rapid succession. This was not an exaggeration. I have many videos to prove it works. My damage is not just a pretty number, it's effect is able to be confirmed visually. Everything around me dies and every guild I'm in, as well as a few other guilds I'm not part of/squads who know me well recognize that they are able to do a lot more when I'm around. In some squads I can consistently hit over 40% of the total zerg DPS [this is infrequent, but it does happen] ... if I'm doing almost half of an entire squad of 30's DPS, it's not just a 'meaningless number' ... that's a game changer. Again ... not ego-tripping. Just telling the truth. Weaver is effective. I have a toon for every class and used to main several others, it's not that I don't understand the importance of 1v1 combat or any of the other important things regarding pvp ... it's that weaver is genuinely OP as hell in WvW and sometimes it seems like nobody even knows it.

    if a front line has 10-40 people that's not whats happening at all, the aoe hits 5 people and has long cooldowns. What is happening is a lot of confirmation bias with meters and number spam.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @steki.1478 said:

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @LazySummer.2568 said:
    nobody cares about weaver dps when minstrel fbs and chronos can literally stand inside meteor showers and emote as long as their boons dont get removed by scourges/spellbreakers. weavers are useless without the help of various other meta classes.

    Then you're casting your meteors on wrong targets. You have no business in damaging tanks when your biggest nuke has DR on it. Meteors still hits squishier targets quite hard and those are the enemy damage dealers; remove pressure and enemy supports have nothing to support.

    Supports are useless without damage dealers. Damage output is useless when enemy still rolls over you (there's no boon rip/corrupt/cc). Necros are useless without proper support. It's all team play, no class can work on their own in a wvw blob.

    Staff weaver performs perfectly fine in big zergs, the issue is that lots of skills are worthless/too slow and its main pressure comes from 1 or 2 skills. It makes sense on hammer rev since it doesn't have many dps skills, but ele has like 10-15 of them. The issue is that it's forced into semi support (any water skills, whose heal is quite low on dps builds) in every build so it sustain has to be awful to compensate. The issue is that despite having 95% of damage output from only 3 fire skills, you still need to swap attunements for CC, while almost completely losing damage output (due to damaging skills being unreliable) - with ~15 skills across 4 attunements you're basically doing the same thing rev does with 4 on just 1 weapon. The issue is that self boon sustain is weak/non existing. The issue is that good condi cleanse comes with huge loss in damage (water/arc traits) and/or loss in self sustain (ether renewal is both channel and weak heal; cleansing fire's offensive part has no use, but you're essentially losing a defensive utility skill).

    Winds nerf didn't impact eles negatively, it made all ranged builds better since there's a lot less projectile hate now. Dome wasnt stipping boons after 5 seconds anyway, it was mostly a zone control at that point, which is gone now.

    I'd rather have meteor shower on shorter cooldown, channel time, duration, less hits, but with weapon skills that are more responsive and execute faster instead of waiting 24 seconds to press 5 and run around trying to squeeze 10% of meteors' damage output with my whole kit and pretending I support allies (at least CC is great).

    @certain people in this thread: There's balance issues and l2p issues, don't mistake one for another. Ele is not really designed for spamming 5 buttons off cd like all other classes, so don't treat it like it's made as such. It's supposed to have high effort/reward ratio, but you make it sound like you want reward for no effort by complaining how weak ele is.

    yeah because scourges and firebrands are perfectly balanced where one just has to put down a shade and spam all F keys and wells, and nobody -- from fbs/chronos to squishies including eles can just face tank it, while as fb you just afk until they happened to get your boons removed then you spam utilities skills and pull out your broken tomes.

    keep preaching l2p when the """"learning"""" part is basically you not following the tag and camping at the sides hoping nobody sees and have your zerg do all the work of:
    1. drawing enemy's attention away from you
    2. removing boons for you
    3. buffing you with stability/fury/might/quickness/barriers
    4. ccing enemies for you
    5. removing chill & weakness from you

    no other classes are that reliant on the team and being able to sit in a highly telegraphed, long channeled, high cd skill and barely take a scratch no matter which target or build is quite kitten in my opinion

    After latest patch you don't even need to be part of squad to be effective. You get your own might and fury, it's just a lot slower without rev (who gets permanent boons with no effort). It's not main zerg who's drawing enemy's attention, it's ranged zerg who's damaging and zoning enemy. You're not even in range of enemy boon rips, if you're getting corrupted you're playing backline wrong. While I agree that quickness does make meteor shower a lot more effective, you can get healed from just walking through melee squad; you have your own defensive skills and stability (which you really only need for safe meteor). Chill/weakness is problem of every backline build, not just ele (those traits are quite ridiculous actually; cc reflect, taunt and weakness procs really need to go, or at least have range cap).

    Ele (and shiro rev) is barely reliant on team, that's why it's capable of clouding around enemy with almost no problem. Try doing that on necro and you'll see what I'm talking about. If you can survive retaliation, you don't need your team to babysit you at all.

    That's your opinion, and my opinion is the reverse. There's no way you can get meaningful fury/might/stab yourself unless you sacrifice your defense/offense or exchange one of those boons for the other. The fury from Raging Storm trait is not even real because it requires a critc in the first place and only lasts 2s on a 3s icd. Air trait line is also quite trash compared to Arcane in my opinion because you miss out crucial cd reduction for your attunments, perma swiftness, and need to camp air to be able to move anywhere, but it's still probably personal preference (and no, I'm not wasting time doing the switch build thing just to move around and then switch back every time). The best fury you can get from standard dps staff weaver is from either Unravel or blasting your fire fields with Persisting Flames. Taking Unravel means giving up either mist form or lightning flash and you're that much easier to get caught and die without these 2. The easy 10+ stacks of might from Pyromancer's is just that much better than Persisting Flames it's really not even an option. Having stability for safe MS is quite useful when zergs are constantly moving and there are a lot more opportunities to cast it when you do have it, especially when defending against enemy siege, otherwise it's really just hoping for your zerg to distract enemy's zerg for you again until you can actually use your MS.

    Necros can poke with their 1200 ranged staff & 900 ranged skills quite well, and they have their own spammable condi clears and barriers to poke if they wanted. Plus, chills & weakness don't affect them as much as it does to power weavers. In fact, no other specialization in the entire game, including core ele and tempest, gets countered by chill as hard as weaver does because that's just how weavers work -- they need to constantly switch attunement to be effective but they also get locked out of all attunements whenever they switch (also why alacrity is so much more effective on weavers). If I see some staff weavers running around by themselves trying to harass our zerg as necro, all I have to do is spam my marks, especially chill & fear on them. There's no way they can channel their meteor shower without getting hit by my shades unless they do the lightning flash/burning retreat trick, and the telegraph of meteor shower is so huge and slow anyways all i have to do is walk out of it and maybe dodge/barrier once to take no damage.

    The only downside I felt when playing necros is their incredibly slow movement because they don't generally have access to perma swiftness and less stunbreaks compared to weavers so it's that much easier for me to get chain cced and killed, but really these 2 issues don't matter as much considering that it's mostly solved by actually being with the tag. I'd also gladly make this trade to be able to just spam skills regardless of targets and still do actual pressure, or play the blood variant where i get to not only play as support that has powerful barriers and incredible rez for my zerg but also still pressure the enemy because boon removal is just so useful.

    Every time I play ele in both WvW and sPvP it's really just me feeling like I'm getting carried by my team the entire time. I could care less about some artificial numbers on a 3rd party tool that's inflated from hitting downs most of the time, and these downs are even usually generated with the help of the team. Ele is just neither a play maker nor a true team support to me but instead some class that begs for its team to do all the work so it can look at some big numbers and feel like it's doing something.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @LazySummer.2568 said:
    nobody cares about weaver dps when minstrel fbs and chronos can literally stand inside meteor showers and emote as long as their boons dont get removed by scourges/spellbreakers. weavers are useless without the help of various other meta classes.

    Then you're casting your meteors on wrong targets. You have no business in damaging tanks when your biggest nuke has DR on it. Meteors still hits squishier targets quite hard and those are the enemy damage dealers; remove pressure and enemy supports have nothing to support.

    Supports are useless without damage dealers. Damage output is useless when enemy still rolls over you (there's no boon rip/corrupt/cc). Necros are useless without proper support. It's all team play, no class can work on their own in a wvw blob.

    Staff weaver performs perfectly fine in big zergs, the issue is that lots of skills are worthless/too slow and its main pressure comes from 1 or 2 skills. It makes sense on hammer rev since it doesn't have many dps skills, but ele has like 10-15 of them. The issue is that it's forced into semi support (any water skills, whose heal is quite low on dps builds) in every build so it sustain has to be awful to compensate. The issue is that despite having 95% of damage output from only 3 fire skills, you still need to swap attunements for CC, while almost completely losing damage output (due to damaging skills being unreliable) - with ~15 skills across 4 attunements you're basically doing the same thing rev does with 4 on just 1 weapon. The issue is that self boon sustain is weak/non existing. The issue is that good condi cleanse comes with huge loss in damage (water/arc traits) and/or loss in self sustain (ether renewal is both channel and weak heal; cleansing fire's offensive part has no use, but you're essentially losing a defensive utility skill).

    Winds nerf didn't impact eles negatively, it made all ranged builds better since there's a lot less projectile hate now. Dome wasnt stipping boons after 5 seconds anyway, it was mostly a zone control at that point, which is gone now.

    I'd rather have meteor shower on shorter cooldown, channel time, duration, less hits, but with weapon skills that are more responsive and execute faster instead of waiting 24 seconds to press 5 and run around trying to squeeze 10% of meteors' damage output with my whole kit and pretending I support allies (at least CC is great).

    @certain people in this thread: There's balance issues and l2p issues, don't mistake one for another. Ele is not really designed for spamming 5 buttons off cd like all other classes, so don't treat it like it's made as such. It's supposed to have high effort/reward ratio, but you make it sound like you want reward for no effort by complaining how weak ele is.

    yeah because scourges and firebrands are perfectly balanced where one just has to put down a shade and spam all F keys and wells, and nobody -- from fbs/chronos to squishies including eles can just face tank it, while as fb you just afk until they happened to get your boons removed then you spam utilities skills and pull out your broken tomes.

    keep preaching l2p when the """"learning"""" part is basically you not following the tag and camping at the sides hoping nobody sees and have your zerg do all the work of:
    1. drawing enemy's attention away from you
    2. removing boons for you
    3. buffing you with stability/fury/might/quickness/barriers
    4. ccing enemies for you
    5. removing chill & weakness from you

    no other classes are that reliant on the team and being able to sit in a highly telegraphed, long channeled, high cd skill and barely take a scratch no matter which target or build is quite kitten in my opinion

    After latest patch you don't even need to be part of squad to be effective. You get your own might and fury, it's just a lot slower without rev (who gets permanent boons with no effort). It's not main zerg who's drawing enemy's attention, it's ranged zerg who's damaging and zoning enemy. You're not even in range of enemy boon rips, if you're getting corrupted you're playing backline wrong. While I agree that quickness does make meteor shower a lot more effective, you can get healed from just walking through melee squad; you have your own defensive skills and stability (which you really only need for safe meteor). Chill/weakness is problem of every backline build, not just ele (those traits are quite ridiculous actually; cc reflect, taunt and weakness procs really need to go, or at least have range cap).

    Ele (and shiro rev) is barely reliant on team, that's why it's capable of clouding around enemy with almost no problem. Try doing that on necro and you'll see what I'm talking about. If you can survive retaliation, you don't need your team to babysit you at all.

    That's your opinion, and my opinion is the reverse. There's no way you can get meaningful fury/might/stab yourself unless you sacrifice your defense/offense or exchange one of those boons for the other. The fury from Raging Storm trait is not even real because it requires a critc in the first place and only lasts 2s on a 3s icd. Air trait line is also quite trash compared to Arcane in my opinion because you miss out crucial cd reduction for your attunments, perma swiftness, and need to camp air to be able to move anywhere, but it's still probably personal preference (and no, I'm not wasting time doing the switch build thing just to move around and then switch back every time). The best fury you can get from standard dps staff weaver is from either Unravel or blasting your fire fields with Persisting Flames. Taking Unravel means giving up either mist form or lightning flash and you're that much easier to get caught and die without these 2. The easy 10+ stacks of might from Pyromancer's is just that much better than Persisting Flames it's really not even an option. Having stability for safe MS is quite useful when zergs are constantly moving and there are a lot more opportunities to cast it when you do have it, especially when defending against enemy siege, otherwise it's really just hoping for your zerg to distract enemy's zerg for you again until you can actually use your MS.

    Stay near revs before fights so you get boons. Walk near tag when you get low on hp/boons.

    Necros can poke with their 1200 ranged staff & 900 ranged skills quite well, and they have their own spammable condi clears and barriers to poke if they wanted. Plus, chills & weakness don't affect them as much as it does to power weavers. In fact, no other specialization in the entire game, including core ele and tempest, gets countered by chill as hard as weaver does because that's just how weavers work -- they need to constantly switch attunement to be effective but they also get locked out of all attunements whenever they switch (also why alacrity is so much more effective on weavers). If I see some staff weavers running around by themselves trying to harass our zerg as necro, all I have to do is spam my marks, especially chill & fear on them. There's no way they can channel their meteor shower without getting hit by my shades unless they do the lightning flash/burning retreat trick, and the telegraph of meteor shower is so huge and slow anyways all i have to do is walk out of it and maybe dodge/barrier once to take no damage.

    Their 1200 poke barely does damage, it's mostly used for cc, condi spam or condi transfer. If you walk to them then you're basically dead since other 1200 range classes are much more effective at zoning than necro. You dont play range wars with 1 ele, you do it with 5-15 builds with 1200+ range so gl doing something vs them as necro.

    The only downside I felt when playing necros is their incredibly slow movement because they don't generally have access to perma swiftness and less stunbreaks compared to weavers so it's that much easier for me to get chain cced and killed, but really these 2 issues don't matter as much considering that it's mostly solved by actually being with the tag. I'd also gladly make this trade to be able to just spam skills regardless of targets and still do actual pressure, or play the blood variant where i get to not only play as support that has powerful barriers and incredible rez for my zerg but also still pressure the enemy because boon removal is just so useful.

    And ele issues are solved by being near revenant. Easy 10 might and perma swift/fury, you have your own defenses anyway. You cant stun lock ele due to stability and evade on stun breaks and they can always mist form behind the tag. Basically your only issue is lack of heals, but again, you walk near tag/out of combat and continue what you were doing before.

    Every time I play ele in both WvW and sPvP it's really just me feeling like I'm getting carried by my team the entire time. I could care less about some artificial numbers on a 3rd party tool that's inflated from hitting downs most of the time, and these downs are even usually generated with the help of the team. Ele is just neither a play maker nor a true team support to me but instead some class that begs for its team to do all the work so it can look at some big numbers and feel like it's doing something.

    In small scale I agree: glass cannon builds dont have high enough burst to compensate for their low mobility/sustain and bruiser builds just dont have damage pressure to handle enemies. But in large scale eles and warrs are what makes plays happen. Warr is the obvious reason due to bubble/boon rip, but ele is often underrated and probably not played properly to its full potential. When you get a ranged squad of 10-15 (mostly revs and eles, but rangers can be quite deadly as well with their 10k autos and unblockable bursts) you can easily control where enemy blob moves with constant meteor spam and they cant do anything against you since you are mobile and have more range than them (unless enemy also has a strong ranged force). In that situation you're the playmaker since it takes only 3-5 good meteors on top of corrupts/bubbles to wipe wipe enemy blob (even if enemy has stronger melee blob that would wipe yours, you have much better ranged damage; I had a blob once with 30 necros and 2 eles that couldnt wipe anything despite having lots of currupts - the damage just wasnt there). I agree that damage is worthless without boon removal and CC, but boon removal/cc are pointless if you have 0 damage pressure, and necros for example have quite lower damage potential than eles/revs.

    There needs to be balance between all these roles in wvw and that balance exists at the moment. The problem is that certain classes have much more roles than other ones and ele's role is based on rng.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:
    if a front line has 10-40 people that's not whats happening at all, the aoe hits 5 people and has long cooldowns. What is happening is a lot of confirmation bias with meters and number spam.

    OK, I should've been more clear - I'm not suggesting I've ever taken down 10 frontliners simultaneously. But you do believe me when I tell you that I consistently chain-cast (as quickly as possible in the game) 5 to 7 skills and can at least take out 4 or 5 of them, yes? Because I do that literally every single day, man. Also the cooldowns are not that long if you do a complete rotation (earth-water, fire-earth, fire-fire, air-fire, water-air, repeat with earth-water... best DPS rotation for WvW and no cooldowns aside from meteor shower) Confirmation bias is a good point to raise and I'm glad you brought it up but it can't be confirmation bias if it survives such a large sample size.

    I'm not sure how many times I can say "I do this all the time and I swear to god it works and everyone who sees me do it knows it was me because they comment on it and treat me as an asset" before I sound like I'm entirely absorbed in my ego. It's really demanding and not easy, but it can be done, and it can be done fairly consistently --- that's all I'm saying.

    I just feel like everyone who says it's number spam/meaningless numbers has never got consistent 10-13k averaged d/ps over a 3 minute long complicated zerg fight while surviving almost flawlessly before. If you've done that first-hand and seen all the downs you've generated you won't think it's meaningless >____> god I sound like a kitten when I read that over, but I'm not sure how else to put it. It's possible ;__; how do I convince you it's possible!? lol

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | YouTube Wrath of God Staff Weaver |
    | Anvil Rock (main) | Crystal Desert (alt)

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @LazySummer.2568 said:
    There's no way you can get meaningful fury/might/stab yourself unless you sacrifice your defense/offense or exchange one of those boons for the other. The fury from Raging Storm trait is not even real because it requires a critc in the first place and only lasts 2s on a 3s icd.

    with a 60-65% crit chance (your crit chance should be somewhere around there unless you don't care about having good dps) you're getting at least 25 seconds to an unlikely but still possible theoretical 40seconds of fury every 60 seconds. I know this because I've done calculations and never had a problem with it, mostly because this trait in WvW is just to make up for not having a rev in your party and optimally your commander should be pairing revs and weavers in the same parties. I have almost 80-90% fury uptime whenever I'm in a squad >__> it's always there when I look down at my boons.

    Air trait line is also quite trash compared to Arcane in my opinion because you miss out crucial cd reduction for your attunments, perma swiftness, and need to camp air to be able to move anywhere,

    When I finish my WvW max-dps rotation I'm just barely off cooldowns and can restart it, I've tried running arcane and it did nothing because skill cooldowns>attunement cooldowns. Without max boons like you would get in raids, your dps will be significantly lower than it would be if you ran air which has fury uptime, a 10% dmg vs CC'd targets and 20% dmg vs <50% health targets as well as consistent 2.5k 900 range hits just for attuning to air. I also don't know what you mean by "camp air to be able to move anywhere" ... weaver's mobility is one of the best in the game o__O you must be running a weird experimental build or you're just not utilizing it effectively. Weaver is amazing for movement regardless of your traitlines.

    Also, perma swiftness - you are playing Weaver right? You know you get swiftness every time you cast a dual skill man? When I'm running alone to catch up with a zerg I dual skill, dual skill, burning retreat backwards, dual skill, dual skill ... perma swiftness and very fast travel time and if you see a roamer coming your way you'll have time to switch attunements, and if you don't see the roamer coming, well you're surprise-ganked either way.

    Having stability for safe MS is quite useful when zergs are constantly moving and there are a lot more opportunities to cast it when you do have it, especially when defending against enemy siege, otherwise it's really just hoping for your zerg to distract enemy's zerg for you again until you can actually use your MS.

    I tried the stabbing up before casting MS a few times and it's a cool gimmick, but it's really just a gimmick. I get ~90% of my MS casts off just by doing the burning retreat-meteor shower trick. Saves you from slotting a stab skill/weaver trait and allows you to cast MS from 2000 range .... 2900 if you combine it with LF.

    Respectfully, the issues you're describing are non-issues

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | YouTube Wrath of God Staff Weaver |
    | Anvil Rock (main) | Crystal Desert (alt)

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:
    if a front line has 10-40 people that's not whats happening at all, the aoe hits 5 people and has long cooldowns. What is happening is a lot of confirmation bias with meters and number spam.

    OK, I should've been more clear - I'm not suggesting I've ever taken down 10 frontliners simultaneously. But you do believe me when I tell you that I consistently chain-cast (as quickly as possible in the game) 5 to 7 skills and can at least take out 4 or 5 of them, yes? Because I do that literally every single day, man. Also the cooldowns are not that long if you do a complete rotation (earth-water, fire-earth, fire-fire, air-fire, water-air, repeat with earth-water... best DPS rotation for WvW and no cooldowns aside from meteor shower) Confirmation bias is a good point to raise and I'm glad you brought it up but it can't be confirmation bias if it survives such a large sample size.

    I'm not sure how many times I can say "I do this all the time and I swear to god it works and everyone who sees me do it knows it was me because they comment on it and treat me as an asset" before I sound like I'm entirely absorbed in my ego. It's really demanding and not easy, but it can be done, and it can be done fairly consistently --- that's all I'm saying.

    I just feel like everyone who says it's number spam/meaningless numbers has never got consistent 10-13k averaged dps over a 3 minute long complicated zerg fight while surviving almost flawlessly before. If you've done that first-hand and seen all the downs you've generated you won't think it's meaningless >____> god I sound like a kitten when I read that over, but I'm not sure how else to put it. It's possible ;__; how do I convince you it's possible!? lol

    lets say you do 11.5k dps on a zerg. People in zergs do not stand still in aoe, so basically your 11.5k is spread across all zerg. Even if everyone did stand about like rabbits caught in headlights so your aoe can rain over them for a sustained period of time , that's STILL only 2kish dps per person. You see its not your 2k dps that's doing the main pvp work to down people, its the players on the front line with the burst. Ele AOE is just background noise that looks shiny on a meter and/or hitting already low players who are pvping.

    Ask yourself this, if you were in the front line and you see red circles - what would you do? same for everyone else.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:
    lets say you do 11.5k dps on a zerg. People in zergs do not stand still in aoe, so basically your 11.5k is spread across all zerg. Even if everyone did stand about like rabbits caught in headlights so your aoe can rain over them for a sustained period of time , that's STILL only 2kish dps per person. You see its not your 2k dps thats finishing people off, its the players on the front line with the burst, your just background noise that looks shiny on a meter or hitting already low players who are pvping.

    Ask yourself this, if you were in the front line and you see red circles - what would you do? same for everyone else.

    Spot on, I should've anticipated and mentioned that, ty for the opportunity. Yeah so players aren't static, they'll move out of damage, but imagine 1 weaver with 11.5k dps, 2 scourges with 8k dps and a handful of revs all within 6-9k DPS and spread that out over a radius of 600 and at least a few things are going down because the damage output is greater than frontline sustain output.

    Weaver is the final nail in the coffin, it can't down things alone, that's correct, but you down things so much more effectively when it's present. MS in conjunction with arcane wave and lightning skill 2 (forget the name) alone, as a skill combo, is a massive damage burst unlike seen from other classes. And it can be followed up with other high damage skills to keep lesser output, but still significant damage output going.

    I mean, the same argument could be made about scourge or rev as well. But you still need damage to down things lol, and when I see that 70% of the zerg's damage came from 2 revs, 1 scourge and 1 weaver I'm gonna bet that those 4 people did the bulk of the work regardless of how pretty the numbers are or aren't

    edit: also keep in mind I actively predict where the zerg is going and I can guess what a commander is about to do next pretty well so most of my skills are placed to keep a constant pressure on the same part of the zerg. You can only walk in weaver aoes for so long man >__>

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | YouTube Wrath of God Staff Weaver |
    | Anvil Rock (main) | Crystal Desert (alt)

  • @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:
    lets say you do 11.5k dps on a zerg. People in zergs do not stand still in aoe, so basically your 11.5k is spread across all zerg. Even if everyone did stand about like rabbits caught in headlights so your aoe can rain over them for a sustained period of time , that's STILL only 2kish dps per person. You see its not your 2k dps thats finishing people off, its the players on the front line with the burst, your just background noise that looks shiny on a meter or hitting already low players who are pvping.

    Ask yourself this, if you were in the front line and you see red circles - what would you do? same for everyone else.

    Spot on, I should've anticipated and mentioned that, ty for the opportunity. Yeah so players aren't static, they'll move out of damage, but imagine 1 weaver with 11.5k dps, 2 scourges with 8k dps and a handful of revs all within 6-9k DPS and spread that out over a radius of 600 and at least a few things are going down because the damage output is greater than frontline sustain output.

    Weaver is the final nail in the coffin, it can't down things alone, that's correct, but you down things so much more effectively when it's present.

    1v1 - your dead
    1vx - your dead
    zerg caught at front - your dead
    5 v5 - people aint gonna stand in your little red circles - your gonna get pressured and dead.

    so on and so forth, that's a kitten build.

    Basically the single solitary scenario where weaver staff contributes is the aoe spam from the back, which is the circles of red spam blob v blob gameplay that anet and players do not want for obvious reasons.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.