Concerns about Elementalist - Page 15 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Concerns about Elementalist

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  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What ele players should expect are :

    1- Nerfs to sword weaver as it make ele as "easy" as other classes by being able to chain defense and be sort of a threat thx to Primordial stance
    2- Nerfs to dmg in some sort or another as ele is still TOP DPS on that snocrow benchmark table
    3- Completely worthless buffs or skill change that only apply kitten load of eye candy but does kitten in the end
    4- Zero change to earth traitlines
    5 - Zero reductions in casting time/activation for most skills or the most hateful skills like dragon's tooth , lava font etc etc etc etc
    6- Zero change to worthless utilities...maybe they will add some more might/regen boon
    7- Zero access to quickness/slow

    Next week I will be here with a big, fat, juicy : I TOLD YOU SO

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @SCVwar.3784 said:
    To be honest, Unravel should have been F5 button not taking another util slot from weaver. Keeping it's core function of single element attunement should have done fine, and possibly adding depth to it's function with traits.. But this looks like a missed opportunity and I doubt Devs actually care what Eles should do in competitive scenes.

    I agree with you, it's a bummer you have to dedicate an utility slot for an skill which just allows you to be able to use your regular vital weapon skills without limitations - when the whole e-spec itself is already nerfed to the bone, in the first place.

  • I'm here for the lols and giggles to remind you folks the devs have done nothing in almost the past year and just to clarify, now we know why.
    Unannounced projects, opposite of rich design, and now they have to lay off staff on what was already an inefficient application of it.
    the Elementalist is going exactly where those unannounced projects are. To the underworld xD

  • MoriMoriMori.5349MoriMoriMori.5349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2019

    @Derkon.7408 said:
    I'm here for the lols and giggles to remind you folks the devs have done nothing in almost the past year and just to clarify, now we know why.
    Unannounced projects, opposite of rich design, and now they have to lay off staff on what was already an inefficient application of it.
    the Elementalist is going exactly where those unannounced projects are. To the underworld xD

    It could easily be the opposite. Surely, they will lay off some staff (though not necessarily vital for the development process specifically) - and then it's quite likely they will put the rest back to their main title's team. That could be the very point ncsoft tried to convey to them: stop wasting resources and invest them into your main source of stable income.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

    @Derkon.7408 said:
    I'm here for the lols and giggles to remind you folks the devs have done nothing in almost the past year and just to clarify, now we know why.
    Unannounced projects, opposite of rich design, and now they have to lay off staff on what was already an inefficient application of it.
    the Elementalist is going exactly where those unannounced projects are. To the underworld xD

    It could easily be the opposite. Surely, they will lay off some staff (though not necessarily vital for the development process specifically) - and then it's quite likely they will put the rest back to their main title's team. That could be the very point ncsoft tried to convey to them: stop wasting resources and invest them into your main source of stable income.

    There realty been no dev on ele for a year + i am not sure the lay off will change any thing for the class. More then likely its going to start acting like other classes weaver is on its way to it because there is no ele only dev so its picking up other classes way of playing. We may see it get some much needed effect BUT at the cost of being an ele.

    Update i guess this coming Tuesday lets see where it goes. Keep in mind for ele players down sizing already happen maybe a good mark for other classes to be ready for.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • MoriMoriMori.5349MoriMoriMori.5349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2019

    Just have tried sword on Weaver for the first time on golem (I started play-testing it with dagger/dagger). I be kittened! It deals absolutely insane amount of damage at almost no additional cost when comparing to the dagger. How any other weapon can even compete with that? It's all so broken in this state, why did they even care to make up all those dual attacks for the other weapons then? They don't look like a viable alternative to sword anyway. Seems like a very rushed design.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    To show how lovely the state of ele is. Last night during reset, all weavers were asked to get into ranged sub-s before we get kicked if any other better spec was there to take our place. This shows how ele gives so much in terms of support and damage that it doesn't even need a squad. The solo capabilities of ele are perhaps way too high that it can solo cap SM.

    We'll probably get 1 or 2 lines of changes just like last patch, or nerfs, maybe Lava Font is still powerful so the damage would be 10% of the current damage while fixing MS bug that caused its damage to be higher than Air Sigil's proc. Ele trait lines are "perfect by nature" anyway and further fixes would get it into "broken" state.

    Others will have positively effective changes that will keep them invested into finding newer playstyles.

    That is an other problem; elem/weaver is too selfish, support for allies (as for oneself) comes mainly from Water lane and not enough, or not effectively, from utility and weapons skills.
    Earth is trash ; unplayable/non-functional without bunker amulet and tempest (Because otherwise you need water/arcane)
    Tempest support : you need water ...
    Arcane : need you to swap, over and over. But arcane prowess, that is kitten, (bring back fury pls ... or more stacks ... ) is not even shared.
    Staff : #1 poor velocity, #3 poor radius, even Healing Rain is stuck in 2015; 1 condi every 3 seconds ?? Regen ??? Seriously with 40sec CD ?? Why not make it like the spirit-bow from guard a "heals" rain and not "regen" rain. It's more useful to swap to fire/air, then swap back to Water to proc traits.
    And utility skills ... is there any skill that share effect with allies ???????????? Apart Arcane power (even that it's nerfed to 50% for allies ...) ?? Even thief and necro have more. Don't say Glyph of Renewal, this skill is impossible to cast.
    Weaver : nothing for allies ... Oops, no, sorry; we have Aquatic Stance ... 1sec tick, need to stay at melee, excellent. Why we couldn't share barriers or something ?

    I can't agree more. We can't provide anything and when we do, there are numerous better options. We rely heavily on core traits that are incomplete and not-universal, but nothing we can do. Ele is nothing but damage, you support by dealing damage, you survive by Lava Tomb meme'ing, you have nothing but to go for damage, because utilities and weapons themselves provide no support, trait lines do and they are lacking. I love playing aggressively, but that doesn't mean being with no back-up for missing a beat. Also, in the current state of the game, you need to provide something to be considered useful, else carry your own self: weavers get placed into ranged squad in pugs quite a lot lately which nullifies the whole idea of being in a squad. In PvP, I believe I would get an easy 90+% poll in PvP forums now no matter the class anyone plays, all will say that ele is the most under-performing class. In PvE, there is that belief of the Large Hitbox on SC is all you need to be accepted as DPS, and that there is no need for any other buffs, while ele is acceptable (meta on few bosses) by squad leaders, they would probably want you to roll something else. Let's see what comes tomorrow.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    @MoriMoriMori.5349 said:
    Just have tried sword on Weaver for the first time on golem (I started play-testing it with dagger/dagger). I be kittened! It deals absolutely insane amount of damage at almost no additional cost when comparing to the dagger. How any other weapon can even compete to that? It's all so broken in this state, why did they even care to make up all those dual attacks for the other weapons then? They don't look like a viable alternative to sword anyway. Seems like a very rushed design.

    For d/d, I only saw hybrid build, because dagger main hand's damage comes from all attunements and ele's trait lines aren't universal, still sword does the hybrid part better. It's quite sad that most weapons never got that much attention. The design of weaver in terms of the trait line and dual attacks is lacking even on sword, sword dual attacks are the hardest to land. Weaver is mostly played for dual attuning and the lovely 4s GCD, if nothing else, then Tempest or core would've been more fun and even better.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Anet,

    First off, I really love GW2, thank you so much for consistently updating and improving it! It's gotten me through some really rough times and i love playing it. :)

    That said, ELE is my favorite class to play, but I wish it was more viable in-game. There are some basic difficulties; since i can't change weapons, i have to choose melee or range, and can't really switch later on. But the hardest part is the overall power/damage and annoyingly long cast times. Could you please either give ele a power boost? if it's a glass cannon, it needs the 'canon' part upgraded.

    In addition, Is there also a way to change the trait lines?
    I can only get traits from 2 elements (plus e elite spec) but i have to use all four. I think it would be better if the traits were more mixed. so you get the advantages for ALL elements, not just two. Like how arcane gives boosts to your character, regardless of which element you attune to at a single moment; could we have more lines like that, based on PLAYSTYLE and not ELEMENT. Other classes have this, like Warrior, Guardian, etc.

    Or if this is to complicated, maybe the next elite spec could let us FOCUS on just 1 or 2 elements? That way we can focus on just those lines and ignore the elements we don't need.
    Sorry to bother you, (I know there's never a way to please everyone!) but I hope you take this into consideration. Can't wait for the next episode!

  • The idea I get is that Anet developers do read this thread, and they are preparing something for the elementalist class, but they're not allowed to talk about anything.

    In other words, this thread exists because they need it (or else Gaile Gray wouldn't have given the amount of attention she gave to it), but they're not allowed to share their thoughts or communicate with us, even if they wanted to, because the company's policy forbids them of doing it.

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    @DiogoSilva.7089 said:
    The idea I get is that Anet developers do read this thread, and they are preparing something for the elementalist class, but they're not allowed to talk about anything.

    In other words, this thread exists because they need it (or else Gaile Gray wouldn't have given the amount of attention she gave to it), but they're not allowed to share their thoughts or communicate with us, even if they wanted to, because the company's policy forbids them of doing it.

    That's some nice optimism you have there. I would hope for that to be the case as well, but I can't be kitten anymore. I've lost all hope. Not even a three-month long bug can be fixed, so I doubt the patch will be anything but good.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @DiogoSilva.7089 said:
    The idea I get is that Anet developers do read this thread, and they are preparing something for the elementalist class, but they're not allowed to talk about anything.

    In other words, this thread exists because they need it (or else Gaile Gray wouldn't have given the amount of attention she gave to it), but they're not allowed to share their thoughts or communicate with us, even if they wanted to, because the company's policy forbids them of doing it.

    That's some nice optimism you have there. I would hope for that to be the case as well, but I can't be kitten anymore. I've lost all hope. Not even a three-month long bug can be fixed, so I doubt the patch will be anything but good.

    We already know what is in the patch https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/69910/upcoming-balance-notes
    Some interesting support tempest changes, but nothing groundbreaking for competitive modes.

  • Well since anet staff got balance harder than Blizzard. I can only hope the game continues on, I think we should just wait for the best.

    Sword Weavers are decent 1v1 vs non POF metas in wvw. Sadly sword still has low packet damage, very small range and is easy to read. Good luck catching holo, mirage, or firebrand if fleeing from battle. You will never catch the others. And chill from Reapers gibs you so hard.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2019

    All I can see from the patch notes is nothing but condition sword weaver being somehow viable in raids, other than that Tempest will barely see the light. Alacrity and Quickness are way too strong that Tempest will replace any of its providers and have in mind that Tempest needs a Chrono all the time because of SoI, so all other support options will still be better, but it might get Support Tempest into it somehow. The patch is nothing to ele players Feels'Good'Man

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    Nice support patch. Now buff staff dps in WvW and all will be good again.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    "In this update, and in the future, we're looking to enhance the support role of tempests through boons, healing, and cleansing."

    Hope this doesn't mean 'Support' Tempest buffs only the upcoming few patches.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭

    It's nice to see Tempest getting more support based buffs. I don't PvE much anymore, but I believe these are steps in the right direction to give the Auramancer gameplay a more defined role in end game play. I hope my tempest friends enjoy the changes!! I don't know how it will effect WvW yet,. although the idea of being able to cover 10 players at a time in Magnetic or Frost Aura is pretty interesting... sorta I guess. Man if only we had a shout that gave shocking aura! Haha.

  • I'm happy they give a look to tempest; but regen and mights ... tempest need alacrity, stab or quickness or unique effects/buffs in addition to the auras. :s

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    I'm happy they give a look to tempest; but regen and mights ... tempest need alacrity, stab or quickness or unique effects/buffs in addition to the auras. :s

    Core ele should have alacrity on glyph casting when trailed.

    Anet seems to be afraid of giving ele the strong boons as support but the self version should be ok to ask for.

    I love the buff tempest going to get core ele now what needs some major love.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • eMKay.4028eMKay.4028 Member
    edited June 1, 2019

    Well I am bringing up this long since since, well, nothing has been actually changed.
    It's June 2019, we are 2 balance patches further and barely any of mentioned problems with elementalist has been touched.
    Here's how it is - the Elementalist is, by design, supposed to be the sort of "master of all" type of class, being able to swiftly cycle through attunements to surprise it's enemy. This design, however, is very 2012 and by that I mean it didn't stand the test of time in the game. With the dawn of elite specializations every class has been given special mechanics that alter its playstyle while providing unique mechanics and effects that it can use on the enemies or provide for the party. That makes the classes excel at PVE content, PVP or WvW, depending on the spec. The attunement mechanic is about, as i sai, being user of all, master of none
    Unfortunately the Elementalist is still lowest tier in most of the game modes. While it can be a good dps class in raids or fractals, its all it does - DPS. Nothing more and its not even consistent in that matter - more like a one hit KO type for DPS. It has the lowest health pool and lowest armor rating making it the most vulnarable class - that makes it extremely dependant on other classes to survive. For example Guardian, Mesmer or Thief can also deal huge damage while providing usefull utilities and boons for the party. To add an insult to injury the Elementalist's DPS is based around one of the clunkiest and hardly usable mechanics in the game - conjures. Not only it feels sluggish when you summon them, but you need to pick them up the second time t even stand in competent DPS frame. Don't have to remind you of constant need to position it well or people stealing your conjures.
    In PVP and WvW the Ele is also considered one of the lowest tier classes - in pvp it currently only ONE viable bruiser build, while other classes have several playstyles. Same in WVW - only one roaming bruiser build that requires ultra reflexes to event stay on par with others and one zerg build based around staff.
    Last year elementalist has received severe nerfs to its damage. I agree - it was to high compared to other classes. However while bringing the damage down to more mortal area the balance team didnt provide the ele with other things to make up for it - no reliable survivability in pve, no consistent damage in pvp.
    The attunements are an old design, that currently handicaps the ele - it is easy to overtune the class but in its current stat the ele is just underwhelming... completely.
    Why do people still play the class though? Well, because it's fun to play - the last thing we get, it's actually really fun to play despite it's many drawbacks.

  • Caiguy.3529Caiguy.3529 Member
    edited June 3, 2019

    Make certain traits still useful outside their specific attunement
    I believe Elementalist traits which are only helpful in a specific attunement should be balanced so that they're also still helpful while in other attunements.
    Specifically, I'd like to see each of the 4 Core Minor Adept traits (fire, air, earth, water) and Pyromancer's Training + Aeromancer's Training traits reworked to still grant some kind of bonus while outside their respective attunement.

    Core Minor Adept traits
    If you were to review the entirety of Core Minor Adept traits in GW2, very few, if any, of them give zero benefit outside their specific attunement/weapon; in other words they are still helpful regardless of which weapon/kit or attunement is being used.

    Weapon/Attunement-specific Major traits
    Below are a few examples of weapon/attunement traits currently in game that are helpful outside their specific weapon/attunement.
    In contrast, Pyromancer's Training and Aeromancer's Training, both Major Master traits, give zero benefit outside their specific attunement.

    Examples:
    -Major Adept-
    Dagger Training: Gives 80 power no matter which weapon is being used (in addition to it's weapon-specific effects).
    Chemical Rounds: Gives 120 condition damage no matter which weapon/kit is being used (in addition to it's weapon-specific effects).

    -Major Master-
    Blademaster: Gives 120 expertise no matter which weapon is being used (in addition to it's weapon-specific effects).
    Ambidexterity: Gives 120 condition damage no matter which weapon is being used (in addition to it's weapon-specific effects).
    Geomancer's Training: Decreases the duration of movement-impairing conditions (in addition to it's attunement-specific effects).
    Aquamancer's Training: Gives 10% damage while above the 90% HP threshold (in addition to it's attunement-specific effects, though the water trait line is arguably not the best place for a percent damage modifier).

  • Aigleborgne.2981Aigleborgne.2981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    @eMKay.4028 said:
    Last year elementalist has received severe nerfs to its damage. I agree - it was to high compared to other classes. However while bringing the damage down to more mortal area the balance team didnt provide the ele with other things to make up for it - no reliable survivability in pve, no consistent damage in pvp.

    Weaver had very high damage, not core and tempest. Yet, these nerfs were core nerfs, hurting every ele builds. And as you pointed out, we didn't get any survivability buffs in return. It is clear that ANet nerfed ele because they were overperforming in raid, an exclusive situation where they are totally babysitted by other professions.

    We did the highest DPS as it is expected from such a profession and it was normal considering our very low sustain (without considering allies). In any MMO, there is always very high DPS classes that outperform others, but they die in 1 or 2 hits. This concept is fine and better than having all professions doing the same DPS and having the same sustain.

    IMO, removal of passive critical hit traits hurt elementalist more than other professions, and increase base damage barely did anything as a compensation. These traits powered by our high critical damage were a strong source of our DPS, and we strongly needed this especially because our lack of sustain : killing before getting killed. Not to mention a killing blow with removal of Tempest Defense.

    Without any word from devs and lack of regular consistent balance patchs, I have lost any hope regarding this profession.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anet seems unconcerned about ele.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Those of you who care about the ele and its balance, please join this thread and continue to add your thoughtful and constructive comments. Thank you.

    Is this the only dev feed back in a forum asking for ele feedback and ideas? Is our feedback being read in a critical maner and considered and or implemented in any way into the game? Or is this thread just a complaint inbox and tossed to the side by the developer community?

    Thirty three thouseand views, 724 responses, one dev response.

  • scureuil.4052scureuil.4052 Member ✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    Gaile was not a developer, but a community manager, and one of the only voices we have from Anet. But she isn't working anymore for ArenaNet since February 25, 2019
    The last trace of a dev post here is from september 2017 if I remember well

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @scureuil.4052 said:
    Gaile was not a developer, but a community manager, and one of the only voices we have from Anet. But she isn't working anymore for ArenaNet since February 25, 2019
    The last trace of a dev post here is from september 2017 if I remember well

    I didnt know gale was one of the people that got canned. O man she was our hope our dreams she was the only one to actually communicate with us....no wonder ben been the one stepping up on the forums the past few months.......

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    Kinda sad how poor the class has become, tbh. We can't even be considered the best healing/cleanse class anymore, or even do decent DPS in WvW with staff. It's truly a shame that the class I started out with, and have been playing for 12K hours and more, has been turned into a punching bag by ArenaNet.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    Kinda sad how poor the class has become, tbh. We can't even be considered the best healing/cleanse class anymore, or even do decent DPS in WvW with staff. It's truly a shame that the class I started out with, and have been playing for 12K hours and more, has been turned into a punching bag by ArenaNet.

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    My friend, you must be playing some other class with no weapons equipped or something.

    This is definitely a L2P issue, because tempest is killing it at the moment in WvW. Like tonight, our raid was pushing hard and balls deep into the enemy, and that's because of the tempest sustain. It's crazy. I don't know what your problem is with it, but please don't tell others that the spec/design is bad when it really isn't.

    If you have the right build, you can clear conditions and heal like a boss. You don't need to provide stability or resistance. Other classes can do that for us. Our job is to heal, CC and provide amazing cleanses. Don't expect any less and you won't be disappointed.

    I thought you could clear/heal like a boss ...now you say you're a punching bag ...did the "mighty tempest" build already run its course?..Don't worry, next balance patch they will give you 3s (gasp) regeneration to "wash the pain away" in accordance with their plains

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    Kinda sad how poor the class has become, tbh. We can't even be considered the best healing/cleanse class anymore, or even do decent DPS in WvW with staff. It's truly a shame that the class I started out with, and have been playing for 12K hours and more, has been turned into a punching bag by ArenaNet.

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    My friend, you must be playing some other class with no weapons equipped or something.

    This is definitely a L2P issue, because tempest is killing it at the moment in WvW. Like tonight, our raid was pushing hard and balls deep into the enemy, and that's because of the tempest sustain. It's crazy. I don't know what your problem is with it, but please don't tell others that the spec/design is bad when it really isn't.

    If you have the right build, you can clear conditions and heal like a boss. You don't need to provide stability or resistance. Other classes can do that for us. Our job is to heal, CC and provide amazing cleanses. Don't expect any less and you won't be disappointed.

    I thought you could clear/heal like a boss ...now you say you're a punching bag ...did the "mighty tempest" build already run its course?..Don't worry, next balance patch they will give you 3s (gasp) regeneration to "wash the pain away" in accordance with their plains

    We do, but not as well as scrapper.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    Kinda sad how poor the class has become, tbh. We can't even be considered the best healing/cleanse class anymore, or even do decent DPS in WvW with staff. It's truly a shame that the class I started out with, and have been playing for 12K hours and more, has been turned into a punching bag by ArenaNet.

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    My friend, you must be playing some other class with no weapons equipped or something.

    This is definitely a L2P issue, because tempest is killing it at the moment in WvW. Like tonight, our raid was pushing hard and balls deep into the enemy, and that's because of the tempest sustain. It's crazy. I don't know what your problem is with it, but please don't tell others that the spec/design is bad when it really isn't.

    If you have the right build, you can clear conditions and heal like a boss. You don't need to provide stability or resistance. Other classes can do that for us. Our job is to heal, CC and provide amazing cleanses. Don't expect any less and you won't be disappointed.

    I thought you could clear/heal like a boss ...now you say you're a punching bag ...did the "mighty tempest" build already run its course?..Don't worry, next balance patch they will give you 3s (gasp) regeneration to "wash the pain away" in accordance with their plains

    We do, but not as well as scrapper.

    You're basically a nice decoration but never necessary......I am pretty sure you were stating otherwise last time

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    Kinda sad how poor the class has become, tbh. We can't even be considered the best healing/cleanse class anymore, or even do decent DPS in WvW with staff. It's truly a shame that the class I started out with, and have been playing for 12K hours and more, has been turned into a punching bag by ArenaNet.

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    My friend, you must be playing some other class with no weapons equipped or something.

    This is definitely a L2P issue, because tempest is killing it at the moment in WvW. Like tonight, our raid was pushing hard and balls deep into the enemy, and that's because of the tempest sustain. It's crazy. I don't know what your problem is with it, but please don't tell others that the spec/design is bad when it really isn't.

    If you have the right build, you can clear conditions and heal like a boss. You don't need to provide stability or resistance. Other classes can do that for us. Our job is to heal, CC and provide amazing cleanses. Don't expect any less and you won't be disappointed.

    I thought you could clear/heal like a boss ...now you say you're a punching bag ...did the "mighty tempest" build already run its course?..Don't worry, next balance patch they will give you 3s (gasp) regeneration to "wash the pain away" in accordance with their plains

    We do, but not as well as scrapper.

    You're basically a nice decoration but never necessary......I am pretty sure you were stating otherwise last time

    No, you were the one upset about not being able to "compete" with firebrand heals or "clear condis nearly as good". You even called it "trash level", but the changes that were done back then brought tempest back into the limelight, though not as much as I would have liked. Scrapper still does a better job at both, but what I said was in regards to your disgruntled comments about firebrands being better than us, because we don't provide stability or resistance. That's not our job. It never was.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    Kinda sad how poor the class has become, tbh. We can't even be considered the best healing/cleanse class anymore, or even do decent DPS in WvW with staff. It's truly a shame that the class I started out with, and have been playing for 12K hours and more, has been turned into a punching bag by ArenaNet.

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    My friend, you must be playing some other class with no weapons equipped or something.

    This is definitely a L2P issue, because tempest is killing it at the moment in WvW. Like tonight, our raid was pushing hard and balls deep into the enemy, and that's because of the tempest sustain. It's crazy. I don't know what your problem is with it, but please don't tell others that the spec/design is bad when it really isn't.

    If you have the right build, you can clear conditions and heal like a boss. You don't need to provide stability or resistance. Other classes can do that for us. Our job is to heal, CC and provide amazing cleanses. Don't expect any less and you won't be disappointed.

    I thought you could clear/heal like a boss ...now you say you're a punching bag ...did the "mighty tempest" build already run its course?..Don't worry, next balance patch they will give you 3s (gasp) regeneration to "wash the pain away" in accordance with their plains

    We do, but not as well as scrapper.

    You're basically a nice decoration but never necessary......I am pretty sure you were stating otherwise last time

    No, you were the one upset about not being able to "compete" with firebrand heals or "clear condis nearly as good". You even called it "trash level", but the changes that were done back then brought tempest back into the limelight, though not as much as I would have liked. Scrapper still does a better job at both, but what I said was in regards to your disgruntled comments about firebrands being better than us, because we don't provide stability or resistance. That's not our job. It never was.

    I don't see any zerg suddenly dieing because that couple tempest minstrel are not there...but feel free to keep thinking that tempest back into the limelight...surely not the limelight of pvp, no tanky stats to let you facetank dmg and you go back to square 1 on ele....lack of base sustain

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    Kinda sad how poor the class has become, tbh. We can't even be considered the best healing/cleanse class anymore, or even do decent DPS in WvW with staff. It's truly a shame that the class I started out with, and have been playing for 12K hours and more, has been turned into a punching bag by ArenaNet.

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    My friend, you must be playing some other class with no weapons equipped or something.

    This is definitely a L2P issue, because tempest is killing it at the moment in WvW. Like tonight, our raid was pushing hard and balls deep into the enemy, and that's because of the tempest sustain. It's crazy. I don't know what your problem is with it, but please don't tell others that the spec/design is bad when it really isn't.

    If you have the right build, you can clear conditions and heal like a boss. You don't need to provide stability or resistance. Other classes can do that for us. Our job is to heal, CC and provide amazing cleanses. Don't expect any less and you won't be disappointed.

    I thought you could clear/heal like a boss ...now you say you're a punching bag ...did the "mighty tempest" build already run its course?..Don't worry, next balance patch they will give you 3s (gasp) regeneration to "wash the pain away" in accordance with their plains

    We do, but not as well as scrapper.

    You're basically a nice decoration but never necessary......I am pretty sure you were stating otherwise last time

    No, you were the one upset about not being able to "compete" with firebrand heals or "clear condis nearly as good". You even called it "trash level", but the changes that were done back then brought tempest back into the limelight, though not as much as I would have liked. Scrapper still does a better job at both, but what I said was in regards to your disgruntled comments about firebrands being better than us, because we don't provide stability or resistance. That's not our job. It never was.

    That dose not make it "right" to lack such boons. Tempest job is to support FB jobs is to support scraper jobs is to support they all compete for that spot each in there own way but its an SS+++ rank and A rank and a D rank (FB, Scraper, Rev then Tempest). If you provide stab / resistance is not a class defing effect support is much like doing burn dmg or bleed dmg is not a class defing effect but doing condi dmg is or better yet just doing dmg.

    Tempest is the worst support in the game that was made for supporting. Ele core as a class is only an avag. dps class. Weaver is only a slightly better then avage dps class. Ele as a class only has 2 made for rolls support and dmg. It lacks too many uniquest effects other support classes has as well as too many uniquest dmg effects to be that end all be all mage dmg class.

    Even the made for uniquest effects like super speed was taken away and given to the other classes.

    Ele as a class has nothing and is nothing.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • My only real problem with ele are the skills. Such as... staff and lightning. Chainlightning is not really what it is. Its more a 'bouncy lightning ball'
    Real chain lightning skill should be a ramp up if you ask me. Starts on a single target and the longer that target is hit, it starts to chain/link to other enemies. Its been a while since I have played my ele, but if ask, I will go through each ability and offer my opinion.
    Also, scepters... what the hell. Some of the abilities look like you are about to do a mic drop. Almost like the scepter is not really needed.

    Don't mined me. I'm just here for the ore.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Still nothing from devs.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Still nothing from devs.

    Did your thread get deleted?

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dahir.4158 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Still nothing from devs.

    Did your thread get deleted?

    Pretty sure it did..and it was fast.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • This is my perspective from someone who hasn't played since the newest expansion was released. I've read the patch notes for the last year recently and it looks like devs have made attempts at helping baseline ele in the form of buffing dagger off-hand and improving cantrips. The problem I am still seeing today that I also saw before I quit was protection and healing is not enough to sustain elementalist. Boon-ripping and burst damage from conditions have no longer made it possible to sustain in a fight. If the devs really want to fix baseline ele they need to look hard into the arcane traitline. I would recommend changing Elemental Enchantment to something like making it impossible for boons to be stolen or corrupted for a few seconds after you switch attunements. In the fire traitline Blinding Ashes need an aoe affect in team fights. Also, offhand dagger will never be prevalent in pvp unless they have some form of projectile block such as churning earth blocking projectiles during its casting animation.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    This is my perspective from someone who hasn't played since the newest expansion was released. I've read the patch notes for the last year recently and it looks like devs have made attempts at helping baseline ele in the form of buffing dagger off-hand and improving cantrips. The problem I am still seeing today that I also saw before I quit was protection and healing is not enough to sustain elementalist. Boon-ripping and burst damage from conditions have no longer made it possible to sustain in a fight. If the devs really want to fix baseline ele they need to look hard into the arcane traitline. I would recommend changing Elemental Enchantment to something like making it impossible for boons to be stolen or corrupted for a few seconds after you switch attunements. In the fire traitline Blinding Ashes need an aoe affect in team fights. Also, offhand dagger will never be prevalent in pvp unless they have some form of projectile block such as churning earth blocking projectiles during its casting animation.

    The problem with ele is simple there is no ele dev. If your class dose not have a dev backing it your always going to be on the back burner. The last dagger update is an example of ele not having a dev. The leap was bugged as if it was an very old version leap. This tells us that this was made a long time ago but never added in. That how a lot of ele skills are they are outdated with old bugs or simply not been updated to any thing in the game.

    There has been no major update buffs to the class in a meaningful way for years now. More then likely what small updates we get now are from the old ele dev who quit years ago.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Jski.6180 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    This is my perspective from someone who hasn't played since the newest expansion was released. I've read the patch notes for the last year recently and it looks like devs have made attempts at helping baseline ele in the form of buffing dagger off-hand and improving cantrips. The problem I am still seeing today that I also saw before I quit was protection and healing is not enough to sustain elementalist. Boon-ripping and burst damage from conditions have no longer made it possible to sustain in a fight. If the devs really want to fix baseline ele they need to look hard into the arcane traitline. I would recommend changing Elemental Enchantment to something like making it impossible for boons to be stolen or corrupted for a few seconds after you switch attunements. In the fire traitline Blinding Ashes need an aoe affect in team fights. Also, offhand dagger will never be prevalent in pvp unless they have some form of projectile block such as churning earth blocking projectiles during its casting animation.

    The problem with ele is simple there is no ele dev. If your class dose not have a dev backing it your always going to be on the back burner. The last dagger update is an example of ele not having a dev. The leap was bugged as if it was an very old version leap. This tells us that this was made a long time ago but never added in. That how a lot of ele skills are they are outdated with old bugs or simply not been updated to any thing in the game.

    There has been no major update buffs to the class in a meaningful way for years now. More then likely what small updates we get now are from the old ele dev who quit years ago.

    Hey man I understand the frustration. I quit because of it. I am sure that the balance team is concerned as well. However, if you look at things objectively, we have a viable pvp., pve and wvw option available to us. It might not be what we want but thats what we got. Devs do take suggestions, as the entire weaver class was based on someone elses concept. Take a step back and recognize the game for what it is and look into other classes. I've mained ele since release and will always main it, but you can still enjoy the game without it.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2019

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    This is my perspective from someone who hasn't played since the newest expansion was released. I've read the patch notes for the last year recently and it looks like devs have made attempts at helping baseline ele in the form of buffing dagger off-hand and improving cantrips. The problem I am still seeing today that I also saw before I quit was protection and healing is not enough to sustain elementalist. Boon-ripping and burst damage from conditions have no longer made it possible to sustain in a fight. If the devs really want to fix baseline ele they need to look hard into the arcane traitline. I would recommend changing Elemental Enchantment to something like making it impossible for boons to be stolen or corrupted for a few seconds after you switch attunements. In the fire traitline Blinding Ashes need an aoe affect in team fights. Also, offhand dagger will never be prevalent in pvp unless they have some form of projectile block such as churning earth blocking projectiles during its casting animation.

    The problem with ele is simple there is no ele dev. If your class dose not have a dev backing it your always going to be on the back burner. The last dagger update is an example of ele not having a dev. The leap was bugged as if it was an very old version leap. This tells us that this was made a long time ago but never added in. That how a lot of ele skills are they are outdated with old bugs or simply not been updated to any thing in the game.

    There has been no major update buffs to the class in a meaningful way for years now. More then likely what small updates we get now are from the old ele dev who quit years ago.

    Hey man I understand the frustration. I quit because of it. I am sure that the balance team is concerned as well. However, if you look at things objectively, we have a viable pvp., pve and wvw option available to us. It might not be what we want but thats what we got. Devs do take suggestions, as the entire weaver class was based on someone elses concept. Take a step back and recognize the game for what it is and look into other classes. I've mained ele since release and will always main it, but you can still enjoy the game without it.

    I'll just play Firebrand as no one can live without me in any game mode.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    This is my perspective from someone who hasn't played since the newest expansion was released. I've read the patch notes for the last year recently and it looks like devs have made attempts at helping baseline ele in the form of buffing dagger off-hand and improving cantrips. The problem I am still seeing today that I also saw before I quit was protection and healing is not enough to sustain elementalist. Boon-ripping and burst damage from conditions have no longer made it possible to sustain in a fight. If the devs really want to fix baseline ele they need to look hard into the arcane traitline. I would recommend changing Elemental Enchantment to something like making it impossible for boons to be stolen or corrupted for a few seconds after you switch attunements. In the fire traitline Blinding Ashes need an aoe affect in team fights. Also, offhand dagger will never be prevalent in pvp unless they have some form of projectile block such as churning earth blocking projectiles during its casting animation.

    The problem with ele is simple there is no ele dev. If your class dose not have a dev backing it your always going to be on the back burner. The last dagger update is an example of ele not having a dev. The leap was bugged as if it was an very old version leap. This tells us that this was made a long time ago but never added in. That how a lot of ele skills are they are outdated with old bugs or simply not been updated to any thing in the game.

    There has been no major update buffs to the class in a meaningful way for years now. More then likely what small updates we get now are from the old ele dev who quit years ago.

    Hey man I understand the frustration. I quit because of it. I am sure that the balance team is concerned as well. However, if you look at things objectively, we have a viable pvp., pve and wvw option available to us. It might not be what we want but thats what we got. Devs do take suggestions, as the entire weaver class was based on someone elses concept. Take a step back and recognize the game for what it is and look into other classes. I've mained ele since release and will always main it, but you can still enjoy the game without it.

    In the same what that a nomad healing thf is viable sure your there and you can do things but if that your level of defining viable just being level 80 and having green or blue armor is enofe to be viable.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Mithos.9023Mithos.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    In order of the recent balance preview I wanted to post an idea that I had some time ago. How good the new traits in water are, still remains to be seen, and I am no longer in that doubt about the changes as when I first read them. Still, I always found the dmg modifiers in water rather strange. They simply don’t fit well with water. On the one side breaking up the trait lines being to specialized is good thing but the dmg modifiers in water still feel out of place. My biggest complaint is that these two traits simply don’t do anything useful for the water skills at all. In short, it will be all about the global dmg increase the 10% while in water stays bad. And even the global increase doesn't help to improve water skill as they simply don’t have the tools to utilize dmg modifier. Most water weapon skills are insanely terrible at delivering dmg. Unless they bring a new elite spek that breaks up the old fire = dmg, water = heal I don’t see the point of this.
    I think if water trait line would be focused more in cc it would open much more options than these dmg modifiers. Adding more cc with the effect deep freeze would be fitting well with the water attunement and elementalist in general. Side note, I always wondered why there is only one source of deep freeze in the elementalist portfolio.

    The first thing would be a new trait: Frostburn

    • If you apply chill also apply burning for 2 seconds. Icd of Xs
    • If you apply deep freeze to an opponent create an aoe nova around them dealing damage and 2 stacks of burning for Xs.

    This would be a new grand master trait.

    This would give a lot more options to the elementalist for conditions builds. As they are now, they are mostly dependent on fire or earth attunement, which limits condition application in a long way. This trait would give quite some synergies for condition builds.
    Further I would change the dmg modifiers to something else to focus more on chill and add a way to apply deep freeze. I don’t have something perfect here:

    For Piercing Shards:

    • New “additional” effect:
    • Whenever you apply chill to a foe gain a stack of “Cold” after X stacks of “Cold” your next attack deep freezes an opponent for 1 s.

    Here we might need to change it to master tier as even if the dmg modifier is no longer counted for it seems quite too good for adept line. General it might be a bit passive but would be still an interesting new way to play. Something to build around chill application. The other option would be to add a new source of deep freeze to either weapon or slot skills. As much underperforming option as we have here that could improve some of them. On the other hand an interaction with chill could improve underused skills and traits as well. It could create a lot of synergies with other trait lines, air to enhance the dmg with Lightning rod, fire for more and longer burning, arcane for additional sources of chill. The more synergies the better as it would give options to choose from but with downsides as well, like focusing more on cc but losing out on condi dmg and vice versa.

  • fixit.7189fixit.7189 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2019

    i think they nerfed staff way to much, it hits like a wet noodle compared to the old days. staff feels so very, mediocre now. meh.

  • Tom Hsiao.9705Tom Hsiao.9705 Member ✭✭✭

    I think elementalist should have new attendant on their F5
    Perhaps arcane or elemental summoning
    The reason I suggest this is because majority of elementalist skills all have some sort of delay damage or slow cast time/channeling (especially the staff)
    For those skills to really do their damage elementalist literally have to stand still and get beat up so mobs will stay in position. However that is nearly impossible considering how fragile elementalist is... and if elementalist use some sort of tanky staff build the damage is almost like a joke.
    Elementalist staff skills are just not as smooth compare to necromancer or Mesmer.
    Fire is the only attunment that does damage... every other attunments literally serves no purpose. (Aside from water healing)

    I just thought perhaps if elementalist have some sort of permanent pet or summons could solve many issues elementalist currently have instead of keep making elementalist a close combat class with tempest channeling skills or sword weaver why not fix the real issue? I know I didn’t play a mage class to get in close combat and melee... please make staff elementalist viable to solo (I know many people are saying staff elementalist still have highest DPS) ya those dps only occurs if they have a party or someone to tank for them!!! I like to do a lot of solo contents and I don’t have a Zerg or party all the time when I’m playing... please rework staff skills or give elementalist a permanent summon/pet. Not everyone that plays this game always have a party or able to play on a time that majority of the players are playing...

    Thanks for reading... <3

    Don’t just argue for the sake of arguing, I don’t have time for trolls!

  • Mystic Angelique.4021Mystic Angelique.4021 Member ✭✭
    edited August 3, 2019

    1.Why FGS still 180 Sec Cooldown while other op class i win elite are like 45 -60 sec average it more of i run away button
    2.Meteor not hitting target most of the time.

    If comparing two profession on similar skill set and equipment as constant. Results should similar then its balances
    if comparing two profession on similar skill set and equipment as constant. When Results are vastly different then its imbalances
    Weightage should be given in different area in terms of mobilty, armour, DPS , HP, Boons etc as well as complexity of playing the class with a simple number system to better balance each profession.

    This my 2 cents on balancing profession.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    Give me shorter cast times, less RNG on Meteor Shower and some party utility because commanders are r000d.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    Hello! Anyone here? Been so long since a reply and it's getting dark and lonely PepeHands

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I wish they just decreased MS radius to 180 instead of the diminishing return damage.

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