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Concerns about Elementalist

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  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alex.2908 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I think weaver is the best example of what an elite spec should be in terms of its impact on play style. It represents a dramatic change in feel relative to its core spec. Compare to tempest, which is pretty much just core ele with access to shouts and overloads. Central to that is this tradeoff. Being locked into your attunement choices with half of that choice predetermined by your previous swap, able to access only part of your kit from your current attunement configuration.

    Having said that, I completely understand that this "locked in" feel is not everyone's cup of tea. If you love core ele, you might not love weaver. That's just how it's going to be the more dramatic the departure is from the core design. That's also not an excuse for the various legitimate complaints players have regarding weaver and elementalist in general!

    Don't overlook the positives that come with the trade, however. Consider the previous example:

    I'm getting my face rapid fired by a ranger while in air/fire. What do I do? I could just dodge, rotate attunements, and cast air 4 for the projectile block. It's a 0.5s cast, but the barrier generated from dodge combined with passive signet healing should result in negligible damage. It would probably be best to rotate to earth regardless, as protection will reduce any damage that does land and the evade on earth 2 is there as well if I need it. However, I could also rotate to water and use riptide to evade, heal, and close distance. Or if they're close enough, polaric leap for the interrupt and gap close, rotate fire and attempt to land a gale -> pyrovortex to turn the tables!

    Compare to core/tempest. If I rotate to water or earth to use the skills I have there, I don't get to access those offhand air skills anymore. I do get to use the offhand skills of that attunement on demand, however. That's the tradeoff. Neither one is "better". They're very different, which I think is a good thing! I wish more elite specs felt this impactful.

    Thanks for the tutorial but i dont think that it helps to progress with the discussion. As i said before, there are all kind of ways to dodge/block/heal any type of attack, even the weaver has them in a way or the other, but that doesnt mean that the weaver is a properly balanced specialization. I think is too easy to use and too boring and, unfortunately, this is the direction that this game is heading to with most classes. Remember when everybody was wearing zerk gear and how technical the combat was?

    I suppose you're right. Weaver is relatively easy. Not because core is a marvel of complexity by comparison, but because core just plain sucks and the way they've designed elite specs makes it very difficult to improve core without also improving the elites.

  • Alex.2908Alex.2908 Member ✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I suppose you're right. Weaver is relatively easy. Not because core is a marvel of complexity by comparison, but because core just plain sucks and the way they've designed elite specs makes it very difficult to improve core without also improving the elites.

    I agree with that. And it was even the other way around, and this is also avalable for other classes as well, by nerfing some elites that had to be fixed they have nerfed the core too much.

  • Touchme.1097Touchme.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2021

    I can't see how core elementalist can compete with elite specs in all modes, is ArenaNet planning to address this issue or not?
    Tempest feels like a better core elementalist with overload skills, it doesn't feel as if it added some variance to the profession. I have played all elite ele specs and I hardly notice any difference between core and tempest. Both support and dps are sitting outside of the current Meta in PvE, especially in fractals. The only support tempest I have seen so far in 15 raid session was not even a full healer build, the profession's popularity is decreasing, how are you dealing with this issue.
    I believe in the philosophy that high risks mean high rewards, and this is why I am currently playing elementalist as a weaver, it has the highest amount of skills in the game but they don't hit hard enough to feel rewarding.
    The profession itself is very squishy baseline, low hp, low base armor, this should be addressed with a balance patch. Marshal stats and bunker build shouldn't be the solution for everything as it confines one profession into a 1 trick pony that doesn't excel on any role.
    Sword animations are too slow and predictable, this profession doesn't shine for hard CC or stealth mechanics and has low mobility baseline making it unable to compete with other professions.
    TLDR: Elementalist needs to be addressed to add more variety and reward players who mastered it with the high skill cap needed to play it decently.

    What you can do to address this issue, you can rework tempest adding more variety to the elite spec from the core and add 1 of the following boons to the kit either alacrity, quickness or precision raid wide. It won't hurt other professions who provide these buffs but it would definitely make elementalist more attractive to recruit in squads.
    Increase the speed of sword weaver animations because the elite spec revolves around sword and it was designed for that purpose and add hard CC to the kit like stun or knockback. Increase the amount of barrier provided by hitting with dual attacks to compensate for the squishy nature of this profession and the vulnerability of being in melee range exposing it to all direct damage and making it unable to kite with ranged attacks.

    Game mode: I am referring mostly to PvE, because PvP and WvW elementalist is only viable as a 1 trick pony bunker build. Zerg support has been hit hard by nerfs and it not in a decent spot right now.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    I can't see how core elementalist can compete with elite specs in all modes, is ArenaNet planning to address this issue or not?
    Tempest feels like a better core elementalist with overload skills, it doesn't feel as it adds some variance to the profession. I have played all elite ele specs and I hardly notice any difference between core and tempest. Both support and dps are sitting outside of the current Meta in PvE, especially in fractals. The only support tempest I have seen so far in 15 raid session was not even a full healer build, the profession's popularity is decreasing, how are you dealing with this issue.
    I believe in the philosophy that high risks mean high rewards, and this is why I am currently playing elementalist as a weaver, it has the highest amount of skills in the game but they don't hit hard enough to feel rewarding.
    The profession itself is very squishy baseline, low hp, low base armor, this should be addressed with a balance patch. Marshal stats and bunker build shouldn't be the solution for everything as it confines one profession into a 1 trick pony that doesn't excel on any role.
    Sword animations are too slow and predictable, this profession doesn't shine for hard CC or stealth mechanics and has low mobility baseline making it unable to compete with other professions.
    TLDR: Elementalist needs to be addressed to add more variety and reward players who mastered it with the high skill cap needed to play it decently.

    What you can do to address this issue, you can rework tempest adding more variety to the elite spec from the core and add 1 of the following boons to the kit either alacrity, quickness or precision raid wide. It won't hurt other professions who provide these buffs but it would definitely make elementalist more attractive to recruit in squads.
    Increase the speed of sword weaver animations because the elite spec revolves around sword and it was designed for that purpose and add hard CC to the kit like stun or knockback. Increase the amount of barrier provided by hitting with dual attacks to compensate for the squishy nature of this profession and the vulnerability of being in melee range exposing it to all direct damage and making it unable to kite with ranged attacks.

    Game mode: I am referring mostly to PvE, because PvP and WvW elementalist is only viable as a 1 trick pony bunker build. Zerg support has been hit hard by nerfs and it not in a decent spot right now.

    As it stands, the best use for core class I found is as "quick attunement rotation", typical cantrip strategy that worked with d/d ele back in the days, still somehow work. Other than that it depends on how you want to play, the class is really unforgiving and at times feels useless, I can still manage something on the class ( more because people always think an ele player as easy kill ) but overall the class is not optimal in any game mode....it's just mostly viable depending on the player's skills

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2021

    @korioaurel.3041 said:
    Hi,

    I'm coming here to explain my point of view as a pvp/wvw main ele. Maybe someone from anet will read that and think about.

    Well friends we are suffering, ele is doing things but it's never the best at it, it's most of the time the worst, except maybe aura share but nowadays wars are better support.

    Let's decompose this analysis based on specs and weapon.

    First of all core ele, not much to say it's just not doing fine at any spot, there are tons of class out there doing way better than core ele.

    Secondly tempest, the eternal healbot, it's funny but it's just about spamming auras, there are no any game breaking skills (maybe tornado) as other support class has. Also it does little to no pressure on enemy team. You can also play dps LR tempest, it's funny but against good players you'll never land any successful overload, rip.

    Finally the weaver. Oh man how hyped I was when they revealed sword on ele, I was thinking of it as a melee bruiser with lots of damage and mobility, the result ends up to be disappointing. Weaver mechanics is really good, but man, weapons skills...

    So let's now go into the deepest issues of eles, weapons!

    Daggers: I use to love DD ele, it was my first crush on the game back in 2012 and now it's just meh. The burst is low (if you are not full glassy which mandatory), mobility suck, dagger offhand is not used at all and main hand it's the best we have (we'll come to scepter). Daggers used to be the offtank weapons of ele, giving you damage, mobility and sustain, sadly it's been overperformed by almost everything.

    Focus: The best offhand weapon out there, simply because dagger sucks. The main issue there is you don't have any offensive offhand on ele. Still I think focus is our best weapon

    Scepter: Here we are, the most painful weapon. I used to love playing FA core ele, the scepter felt kitten good and offers lots of counterplays. The burst was all nice and it has some blind which help. But again, as daggers, it's now completely under performing, after all nerfs to FA weaver you full burst is not able to kill anything. I played it again recently and it was just so bad, damage is low, mobility is non existent, defensive cd are just useless... This weapon is a shame on this state and because of it burst ele is just bad. And please, don't come up with the "yes but It could one shot someone so it needed to be nerfed". There are legit a ton a things that can one shot in this game, lot's of class can 100-0 in few seconds with the right combo, the difference was that zerk FA weaver was squishy as hell when reaper, reve, holo are tanky and thief/mesmer can stealth and got better mobility.

    Staff: not much to say, never been meta in pvp, in wvw it's meh.

    Warhorn: funny but skills are not good compared to focus

    Sword: skill are slow, so slow, animations takes forever which makes damages so easy to dodge. This weapon needs to be rework. All autos attacks are slow, fire 2 is nice but too slow to land, water 2 needs to be something else, air 2 is fine, earth 2 we need to be able to move while using it.... I'm not going to comment all the 3 skills it's mostly about slow animation. It's even worst if you compare to other classes swords like rev or guardian.

    Lastly I would also address some specific considerations about how low are damages on this class, disclaimer I don't care of pve meta, I think that PVP, PVE and WVW must all have separate meta otherwise ele is just impossible to balance. But please, nowadays any class got more damage than ele, the LR weaver requires you to go zerk to do something and because you are that squishy you get oneshoted by anything. I don't find it fair, on reaper, holo or reve damages are so much higher, any skill can be a 4-5k crit while on ele it's 2k max? If you beat someone that means you have to outplay him several times while he only has to hit you once... As I said anything ele does something does it way better so what's the point of this class? It's been underperforming for years now, since 2015 the only viable build at high elo was the aurashare support. Sure fire weaver had a spot but if a team had to choose between weaver or holo/soulbeast they put a cross on the ele. FA weaver was sometimes shinning when there were no good thief or mesmer but now it's pointless to bring such garbage... Other classes elite spec got reworked (reaper, berserker, scrapper, ...) but ele stayed the same, tempest hasn't moved since 2015 and weaver since 2017. Staff and Scepter got nerfed and that's basically it. The only rework we had was on.... AURAS, yes of course, let's change a bit the only thing that's viable... This rework was minor to nothing, hasn't change the playstyle, hasn't bring anything new, it's just meh.

    Its cause they nerfed lightning flash too much and also the cd of mist form and our other invulns.

    Ele being so delicate deserves to have some form of viable defenses considering unlike nec they are super squishy.

    The way for instance holo seems with getting away is what ele needs to stay viable, that and form of damage thats good with not too much cast time.

    @Alex.2908 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I suppose you're right. Weaver is relatively easy. Not because core is a marvel of complexity by comparison, but because core just plain sucks and the way they've designed elite specs makes it very difficult to improve core without also improving the elites.

    I agree with that. And it was even the other way around, and this is also avalable for other classes as well, by nerfing some elites that had to be fixed they have nerfed the core too much.

    Core guardian i heard is decent, and core nec in spvp made a comeback after folks demanded changes.

    Folks are already demanding that elites shouldn't be a upgrade to the core, and they are right. I expect changes are going to be made to core ele, and i suspect.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My main concern is....where the sustain will come from with next elite?

    -We had aura healing, extra protection and 4 additional stunbreaks with Tempest
    -Evasion, Barrier and stances with Weaver

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Loboling.5293Loboling.5293 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2021

    Prob blocks and blinds next.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    Prob blocks and blinds next.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I do not think anet likes to give ele blocks as ele can do things during blocked and most of the ele def up to now are lock out def. Unless they do give ele a channel shield. Every thing the shield dose is channel and some what def aimed.

    But if they make another elite spec. that simply dose the same thing as the core tempest and weaver (they all do the same thing) then its another wait of time.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2021

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    Prob blocks and blinds next.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I do not think anet likes to give ele blocks as ele can do things during blocked and most of the ele def up to now are lock out def. Unless they do give ele a channel shield. Every thing the shield dose is channel and some what def aimed.

    But if they make another elite spec. that simply dose the same thing as the core tempest and weaver (they all do the same thing) then its another wait of time.

    I think most of us deep down already know that in the end...we will be playing a bunker variant of the new elite for competitive environments, personally I have no illusions that this won't be the case, even if they'd give ele a strong and competitive blocking mechanic initially...we all know that Anet would nerf it to hell after the tears start flowing from the community when the number of eles rise above the below average normal quote.

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Give core ele double minor effects and innate lingering elements for 5s

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Give core ele double minor effects and innate lingering elements for 5s

    I think it should be perment lingering elements. It lets core ele in effect be the atuments of its chose as you trait them. I like the double minor when in the atument is cool too.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Jski.6180 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Give core ele double minor effects and innate lingering elements for 5s

    I think it should be perment lingering elements. It lets core ele in effect be the atuments of its chose as you trait them. I like the double minor when in the atument is cool too.

    Yeah i don't think this is such a good idea considering we have weaver it would literally defeat the whole purpose of the elite spec because that is it's signature thing. It would be like giving core engi access to the function gyro or core necro the ability to pick which shroud they want.

    Elementalist - my one true love
    Just faffin around in OW
    ANet fix your servers plox

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @skunkstank.6128 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Give core ele double minor effects and innate lingering elements for 5s

    I think it should be perment lingering elements. It lets core ele in effect be the atuments of its chose as you trait them. I like the double minor when in the atument is cool too.

    Yeah i don't think this is such a good idea considering we have weaver it would literally defeat the whole purpose of the elite spec because that is it's signature thing. It would be like giving core engi access to the function gyro or core necro the ability to pick which shroud they want.

    Right but weaver is more about its dule skills and only needing to be partly in an atument to get the full atument benefit. We are talking about being in another atument and getting the benefit of another atuments line.

    That and core ele is widly weaker then weaver so much so you can even call weaver a pure power creep of the core ele more so then what tempest was. Weaver is more tankly and dose more dmg then core ele.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • 1) Make a rune with vitality, healing and condi clean on aura application
    2) Give stability with eyes of the storm

    That will make me happy

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ScottBroChill.3254 said:
    Or how about we return ele to being a long range class seeing as it's the squishiest thing in the world and shouldn't have to rely on gimmicks to survive lol Everything would be cool If I wasn't forced in melee combat because Battle mage=1337 bro, even though a battle mage should wear heavy armor... Tempest overloads require close range, weaver is all close range because scepter and staff are really just lacking in what they provide. Scepter lacks usability outside its old "one-shot" builds, it used to be able to dual before powercreep, but its damage and survivability just can't keep up, and it's aoe skills are locked behind delayed skillshots (dragons tooth, pheonix, shatterstone). Staff has been gutted and suffers from 2012 balance in terms of rooted skills and having too many aoe's that require the enemy to stand still. I mean it works I guess for are denial in pvp modes, but like cmon, it sucks. it's too slow and doesn't hit hard until you get it going. Very bad design for quick, flowing and active combat that this game is designed around.

    The thing is weaver is also a long ranged class but simply stronger then core in both dmg and def as well as tempest being a long ranged class but some what stronger in def. The ability of staff being an wepon chose for every elite spec of ele makes every elite spec a long ranged class.

    Core ele is significantly glasseser then weaver and tempest yet it get nothing for it AND the weaver and tempest gets all of there skills from the core ele (you realty dont not see tempest of weaver use there weapons.)

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ScottBroChill.3254 said:
    Or how about we return ele to being a long range class seeing as it's the squishiest thing in the world and shouldn't have to rely on gimmicks to survive lol Everything would be cool If I wasn't forced in melee combat because Battle mage=1337 bro, even though a battle mage should wear heavy armor... Tempest overloads require close range, weaver is all close range because scepter and staff are really just lacking in what they provide. Scepter lacks usability outside its old "one-shot" builds, it used to be able to dual before powercreep, but its damage and survivability just can't keep up, and it's aoe skills are locked behind delayed skillshots (dragons tooth, pheonix, shatterstone). Staff has been gutted and suffers from 2012 balance in terms of rooted skills and having too many aoe's that require the enemy to stand still. I mean it works I guess for are denial in pvp modes, but like cmon, it sucks. it's too slow and doesn't hit hard until you get it going. Very bad design for quick, flowing and active combat that this game is designed around.

    There is a reason why the number of people choosing this class keeps decreasing........

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • I'm a simple fellow. Remove the timer from the elementals. Say summon 2 lessers and 1 normal. They stay up until defeated. Keeping track of their cooldown to keep 3 up has a slowly increasing time of only 2 up, because of the cast time of the spell itself. Treat them like the NEcro abominations.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AreeSoothsayer.1068 said:
    I'm a simple fellow. Remove the timer from the elementals. Say summon 2 lessers and 1 normal. They stay up until defeated. Keeping track of their cooldown to keep 3 up has a slowly increasing time of only 2 up, because of the cast time of the spell itself. Treat them like the NEcro abominations.

    Ya that would be nice to see it would give ele a relaibitly frost field out side of its weapons and realty give ele as a class effects out side of its wepon set that they are very much locked to.

    Sadly ele is less of an mage in this game and more of an specialist class. Something never got why most of what makes ele and ele comes from its wepon not from its utility.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • ParadoX.3124ParadoX.3124 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't know why we still have different HP base for class and nothing was made with introduction of specialisation, except a nerf on scrapper which now have no sense with the reduction of damage.
    What is the reason why necromancers have the same HP base than warior with all this barrier / weakness / corrupt / fear while ele lake cc.
    Each time I see an ele on fractals, they down pretty much everytime on each boss.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I wish they'd spruce up arcane trait line a bit. The boon uptimes seem so stingy for the range of boons it provides. Some thoughts/suggestions:

    Protection uptime on earth attunement swap is strong, but I think vigor, swiftness, fury, might, and regen could all be increased. Ideally, this should come from improvements to arcane prowess, renewing stamina, and elemental attunement. Change elemental lockdown to grant 3s quickness on interrupt instead of boons based upon attunement. Add boons to evasive arcana and a 1s chill to the water dodge. Increase boon share radius to allies. Add a passive 5s protection on a 60s icd to Final Shielding. Drop weakness from arcane precision and replace with some other non-CC condition, but reduce the icd from 3s to 1s.

  • Zeesh.7286Zeesh.7286 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2021

    My continuous gripe with Anet is over their ridiculous design choices. I'm not even going to pick on ele mechanics. Let's just look at base stats.

    In most games, you have magic defense and physical defense as separate things. Light armor classes trade better magic defense for lower physical defense. In this stupid game, there is no magic armor. But somehow heavy/light armor is a thing. Okay maybe light armor classes get to be ranged while heavy get to be melee so they balance range advantage with better stats. WAIT A MINUTE! BOOM!!! A revenant with 1200 range! Warriors with rifles and longbows! Gaurdians with ranged condi AND power dps!!! All heavy armor!! All bigger HP pool!!!

    On top of that, the most viable weapon sets for elementalists with the LOWEST base stats for HP and armor are totally melee!!! On top of that Ele will still have the same power and attack as someone in full plated armor because big brain time berserker stats same for all armors but light armor has lesser base armor than heavy ????? How is that remotely fair or sensible!!! Can a developer be tagged here to answer what logic was used to design the game and what was the thought process behind all of.. this.. whatever this is?

    Ele will have much better sustain if they adjusted the base stats for the class. It makes absolutely no sense for armor values to exist in this game as separate for heavy, light and medium classes given how there seems to be no tradeoff to playing a Heavy armor class. You deal the same damage with berserker stats on each class oh but somehow Ele has to do it with lesser HP and armor...

    If they really want to give light armor classes lower base armor, punish the high armor classes with either lower base power or add in something like magic armor. If that's not the case, remove this kitten about light armor vs heavy and standardize it.

  • I think there are a lot of ways to fix the heavy, medium and light armor diference other than armor value diferences.

    For example: you can add some game related buff to the armor like 2 stacs of stability for heavy. Vigor, swiftness or might for light, medium armor with a middle point between heavy and light.
    Maybe some number bonus like vitality for heavy and power, condi damage, healing, precision and/or ferocity for light armor, and again, some middle point for medium armor.
    You can think about how it feels diferent when you wear light vs heavy clothes and try to bring that feel to the game throw numbers and buffs

    If you gonna make something about this issue, please, make something that make you feel rewarded (not punished like it is right now) about being forced to use a certain armor type.

    Other thing you can do is allow every class in the game use every type of armor.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @javier.9786 said:
    I think there are a lot of ways to fix the heavy, medium and light armor diference other than armor value diferences.

    For example: you can add some game related buff to the armor like 2 stacs of stability for heavy. Vigor, swiftness or might for light, medium armor with a middle point between heavy and light.
    Maybe some number bonus like vitality for heavy and power, condi damage, healing, precision and/or ferocity for light armor, and again, some middle point for medium armor.
    You can think about how it feels diferent when you wear light vs heavy clothes and try to bring that feel to the game throw numbers and buffs

    If you gonna make something about this issue, please, make something that make you feel rewarded (not punished like it is right now) about being forced to use a certain armor type.

    Other thing you can do is allow every class in the game use every type of armor.

    Sadly that not the way the game works heavy medium and light armor all act the same way for every thing they just simply have more or less def the same thing could be said for hp amounts. The only real fix would just have them give all the same def and open up skins for all classes.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This Thread is so like eles... So much keyboard work for nothing done, yet still here.
    To reply to the posts above, it would have been somehow balanced with the fact that only light armor professions have teleports, but hello Revs and Guards ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    After everything that's been said and never done, I think the simplest, easiest, quickest, laziest way to improve ele somehow, is to make Healing power a defensive stat against condi damage.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    This Thread is so like eles... So much keyboard work for nothing done, yet still here.
    To reply to the posts above, it would have been somehow balanced with the fact that only light armor professions have teleports, but hello Revs and Guards ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    After everything that's been said and never done, I think the simplest, easiest, quickest, laziest way to improve ele somehow, is to make Healing power a defensive stat against condi damage.

    As much as i would like that ports to only light armor you have to think of thf.

    Any way this thread is very out dated the dev not even at anet any more from what i understand. Better to just call anet out at every point with in a new thread named with why your calling them out. Ele as a class is just at that point of being so out dated as a class and out right abused there is no more room for the benefit of anet not actively choose to keep the class down. What ele is today and what other classes are IS what anet wants them to be and we are a year + with this balancing chose.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    After everything that's been said and never done, I think the simplest, easiest, quickest, laziest way to improve ele somehow, is to make Healing power a defensive stat against condi damage.

    Or Arenanet could just lower Condition damage and increase the condition duration to turn conditions into a proper DoT style gameplay, rather than the defence-ignoring burst that they currently are.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    This Thread is so like eles... So much keyboard work for nothing done, yet still here.
    To reply to the posts above, it would have been somehow balanced with the fact that only light armor professions have teleports, but hello Revs and Guards ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    After everything that's been said and never done, I think the simplest, easiest, quickest, laziest way to improve ele somehow, is to make Healing power a defensive stat against condi damage.

    Condi is too weak as it is. Address ele problems by addressing ele problems.

  • Whatever build I play it seems like Arcane is a mandatory pick (save for the Tempest aura support). Is this normal or is it because the trait lines themselves lack the versatility for other options?

    An unsavory fellow beloved by those of unsavory ilk.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    @Isle of Stars.3049 said:
    Whatever build I play it seems like Arcane is a mandatory pick (save for the Tempest aura support). Is this normal or is it because the trait lines themselves lack the versatility for other options?

    Versatility if I had to guess. Good selection of boons all in one line. You can also trait for power damage, condi damage, healing, condi cleanse, etc.

    For an elite like weaver, I think it's good design. Weavers should specialize in one element with arcane to supplement certain needs.

    But I think Core should be one of those that doesn't need Arcane. Core is all about Jack of all Trades, and specializing in core elements should be its strength. Reduced weapon cool downs, increased benefits in 3 elements, etc.

    Anet should create better synergy between core elements to support that idea, rather than having so many builds reliant on arcane.

  • Versatility if I had to guess. Good selection of boons all in one line. You can also trait for power damage, condi damage, healing, condi cleanse, etc.

    For an elite like weaver, I think it's good design. Weavers should specialize in one element with arcane to supplement certain needs.

    But I think Core should be one of those that doesn't need Arcane. Core is all about Jack of all Trades, and specializing in core elements should be its strength. Reduced weapon cool downs, increased benefits in 3 elements, etc.

    Anet should create better synergy between core elements to support that idea, rather than having so many builds reliant on arcane.

    I played around on the core traits and it seems like Earth and Fire needed a bit of tweaking. Particularly Earth GM traits as they can never be felt when attuned out of Earth. It feels like Lingering Elements might need to comeback. Or like what the previous post has mentioned, have at least the minor adept traits have their properties stay for few seconds after attuning out of it.

    Diamond Skin may need to remove that "remove condi when hit", property. And Stone Heart may need few adjustments.

    An unsavory fellow beloved by those of unsavory ilk.

  • FrownyClown.8402FrownyClown.8402 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @Isle of Stars.3049 said:
    Whatever build I play it seems like Arcane is a mandatory pick (save for the Tempest aura support). Is this normal or is it because the trait lines themselves lack the versatility for other options?

    Versatility if I had to guess. Good selection of boons all in one line. You can also trait for power damage, condi damage, healing, condi cleanse, etc.

    For an elite like weaver, I think it's good design. Weavers should specialize in one element with arcane to supplement certain needs.

    But I think Core should be one of those that doesn't need Arcane. Core is all about Jack of all Trades, and specializing in core elements should be its strength. Reduced weapon cool downs, increased benefits in 3 elements, etc.

    Anet should create better synergy between core elements to support that idea, rather than having so many builds reliant on arcane.

    I think earth could replace arcane just fine if it had proper damage mitigation. Barrier would be great to have, but having it available to elite specs is a problem. Air actually offers great prot uptime, but only on glyphs. I think all the grandmasters need a rework in earth for starters. Diamond skin could reduce condi damage by 30% above 50% hp or something. Written in stone could include a barrier application on signet use. Stone heart could be a flat 20% damage reduction below 50% health. Lots of interesting things could be done, but i dont think its even in Anets agenda.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @Isle of Stars.3049 said:
    Whatever build I play it seems like Arcane is a mandatory pick (save for the Tempest aura support). Is this normal or is it because the trait lines themselves lack the versatility for other options?

    Versatility if I had to guess. Good selection of boons all in one line. You can also trait for power damage, condi damage, healing, condi cleanse, etc.

    For an elite like weaver, I think it's good design. Weavers should specialize in one element with arcane to supplement certain needs.

    But I think Core should be one of those that doesn't need Arcane. Core is all about Jack of all Trades, and specializing in core elements should be its strength. Reduced weapon cool downs, increased benefits in 3 elements, etc.

    Anet should create better synergy between core elements to support that idea, rather than having so many builds reliant on arcane.

    I think earth could replace arcane just fine if it had proper damage mitigation. Barrier would be great to have, but having it available to elite specs is a problem. Air actually offers great prot uptime, but only on glyphs. I think all the grandmasters need a rework in earth for starters. Diamond skin could reduce condi damage by 30% above 50% hp or something. Written in stone could include a barrier application on signet use. Stone heart could be a flat 20% damage reduction below 50% health. Lots of interesting things could be done, but i dont think its even in Anets agenda.

    Several professions hit well above 20% when target is at or below 50%...your suggestion would make the trait less than worthless when it's completely fine as it is

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Zeesh.7286Zeesh.7286 Member ✭✭✭

    Stoneheart should not be touched.

  • GoodWithGravy.8019GoodWithGravy.8019 Member ✭✭
    edited April 8, 2021

    If anything, traits like stone heart should be given lesser effects (e.g. revert 33% of incoming crits to normal attacks) while out of the target attunement.

    One of the many problems all Ele specs have is that on virtually every weapon most builds have entire attunements that are too weak to be worth swapping to if you aren't traited in their line. A major part of this is the fact you effectively lose half of your traits when you swap to them.

    Attunement specific traits are Eles version of weapon specific traits, yet all but a small number were missed out when the sweeping changes were made to weapon specific traits on other classes.
    The changes were made for exactly the kind of reasons I mentioned earlier, and it is sad that Anet skipped Ele despite it being the most hard hit by traits like these. Unfortunately I think missing Ele was deliberate, specifically to keep the versatility low.

    The whole point of having four elements is completely undermined if entire attunements aren't even worth using. This gets worse when you swap to either of the E-specs because of their slower attunement swapping.

    Many similar things can be said about Eles outlier dependence on base stats too. Particularly the dependence on healing power for personal sustain. I find it crazy that people complain about (now deleted) menders Eles when you have other classes walking round in Demolisher amulets with close to the same sustain and tonnes more DPS/utility...