Concerns about Elementalist - Page 5 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Concerns about Elementalist

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  • PVE point, I'm agree with many of the ideas of this post (auras, conjures, barriers, ...). My two cents:

    • Core: less stacking stat/damage bonus, "only when attuned to X" changed to "work better when attuned to X"
    • Tempest: overloads rework as ward spells from GW1 (party buff/support like renegade skills)
    • Weaver: less stacking stat/damage bonus, more Lingering elements flavour
  • Zelse.9780Zelse.9780 Member ✭✭

    The identity of what the elementalist was back in the day (jack of all trades/glass cannon damage dealer) is no longer a relevant option with the constant changes with other classes received along with the new elite specs that have put other classes in specific niches (healer/boon support) while giving the elementalists and their elite specs to just float around trying to find out what they are, and what they provide. They were only used in group play for their aoe/damage, however, lost their only "niche" from being damage dealer to being completely irrelevant and out classed in practically every aspect especially in pve. Why bring an elementalist when you can bring a class that can do it better, and easier to play?

    Elementalist when I first started playing it was a very difficult class to play, and the learning curve was definitely not recommended for beginners, just look up any of the youtube videos that recommends classes for beginners, however, I learned to play and play well to achieve the damage that was promised me when I master this unique class. With that being said, no new player would ever want to play a class that was difficult to play only to achieve average potential in all aspects of game modes, especially pve which when you are a new player that is the first thing you are introduced to.

    I'm a bit confused as to why elementalists got such hard nerfs especially staff when it was clearly apparent that the other classes just needed buffs. The changes to meteor has impacted the staff builds drastically making core, tempest, and weavers obsolete. Like, in what alternate universe are players punished for channeling the full cast time of the meteor skill? Channeling the full skill is a dps loss which to me makes absolutely no sense.

    With a serious identity crisis, the not so rewarding high learning curve for mediocre satisfaction, and unwanted nerfs leaves you with a taste of dissatisfaction and and an after taste of disappointment.

  • Ele staff skills needs to be redone up the base damage, correct the projectile speeds. They were nerfed hard since raids. Anet needs to factor enviromental factors in raid like the first game so ele does less damage and reverse most of the nerfs in the fields.

    Sword Weavers are decent 1v1 vs non POF metas in wvw. Sadly sword still has low packet damage, very small range and is easy to read. Good luck catching holo, mirage, or firebrand if fleeing from battle. You will never catch the others. And chill from Reapers gibs you so hard.

  • Usagi.4835Usagi.4835 Member ✭✭
    edited August 24, 2018

    @Waisenpai.6028 said:
    Ele staff skills needs to be redone up the base damage, correct the projectile speeds. They were nerfed hard since raids. Anet needs to factor enviromental factors in raid like the first game so ele does less damage and reverse most of the nerfs in the fields.

    I don't think they should (or even want to) make autoattacks too strong, otherwise you end up with something like ranger. I'd consider adding bleeds onto the earth staff auto. Water Blast is naturally stronger for healing. I think Chain Lightning could stand to be a bit faster because even though the tooltip is 1200, I think it tapers off and has an issue connecting with the target at times. I don't mind Fireball being slow, the only problem is (and this is a broader issue) that, with skills that take so long to cast or hit (Eruption, Ice Spike, Lava Font, which is instant but pulses damage, and people don't tend to stand in it for more than 1-2 ticks; if they do, they deserve to die, it's supposed to punish stationary targets etc.), there should be a payoff in damage, particularly if your stats are geared that way. Necros complained incessantly about how slow skills were. I used to main necro. I thought, for the most part, it was okay. The thing about necros is that they also bring a lot of utility in having boon corrupt, though obviously for PvE it's not so useful.

    And on an unrelated note, my bad, I skimmed over the Herald rework and didn't realise they were actually allocating resources for class balance. Tentatively hopeful but I worry extreme shakeups by ANet will spell disaster. Please don't take DPS specs for ele. D/D is dead for other reasons but I don't want for compromises to be made so we can have middling builds across the board. Nerfing one weaponset/spec does not make others viable.

  • Forgotten Legend.9281Forgotten Legend.9281 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 25, 2018

    i'm speaking mainly from an open world perspective, including the personal story, living world story, world bosses, etc. with a little bit of PvP and WvW thrown in. but honestly, i hate PvPiing with my ele. it's just not fun for me, partly because of the minor traits.

    to me, the minor traits pigeon-hole the elementalist too much.... Other classes' minor traits are useful all the time, while ele minor traits are only useful in a single attunement. i actually think that the adept and master tier minors could be tweaked and maybe made baseline. and then NEW adept and master level minor traits should be made that are useful regardless of attunement.

    examples could be:
    Whenever you gain any aura, gain "x" boon, Y cooldown
    whenever you change attunements, cast X spell, Y cooldown
    gain 1 stack of X stat or boon every 10 seconds in an attunement, max 5 stacks
    X boon grants additional buff
    applying X condition also applies Y condition

    you know, same kind of adept and master tier minor traits that all the other classes get...

    some kind of synergy example:
    adept -- apply burning when you apply chill: 9 second cooldown per target;
    master -- apply chill to your target (small aoe) when you change attunements: 9 second cooldown

    i'd definitely get rid of the point blank AoE nature of the damaging spells on the master traits. and make them all "on target", in order to make them viable for all weapon sets.

    i'd almost go so far as to revamp all the trait lines to NOT be named or linked with the attunements...

    i'd also add more conditions to ele weapon skills. it seems to me like ele should be able to use elements to poison enemies. after all, high concentrations of metals, found in the earth, are toxic.

    "Bacon Defeciency DIsorder Sux"
    ~ The Baconnaire

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

    I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 25, 2018

    I started the game at release, mostly did PvE the first year, then mostly only WvWed and PvPed, and for some years now I almost exclusively play PvP. To me this is the ultimate end game content where you can display all your skills fashion sense. Needless to say I'm the most pretty out there.

    @Forgotten Legend.9281 said:
    i'm speaking mainly from an open world perspective, including the personal story, living world story, world bosses, etc. with a little bit of PvP and WvW thrown in. but honestly, i hate PvPiing with my ele. it's just not fun for me, partly because of the minor traits.

    to me, the minor traits pigeon-hole the elementalist too much.... Other classes' minor traits are useful all the time, while ele minor traits are only useful in a single attunement. i actually think that the adept and master tier minors could be tweaked and maybe made baseline. and then NEW adept and master level minor traits should be made that are useful regardless of attunement.

    examples could be:
    Whenever you gain any aura, gain "x" boon, Y cooldown
    whenever you change attunements, cast X spell, Y cooldown
    gain 1 stack of X stat or boon every 10 seconds in an attunement, max 5 stacks
    X boon grants additional buff
    applying X condition also applies Y condition

    you know, same kind of adept and master tier minor traits that all the other classes get...

    some kind of synergy example:
    adept -- apply burning when you apply chill: 9 second cooldown per target;
    master -- apply chill to your target (small aoe) when you change attunements: 9 second cooldown

    i'd definitely get rid of the point blank AoE nature of the damaging spells on the master traits. and make them all "on target", in order to make them viable for all weapon sets.

    i'd almost go so far as to revamp all the trait lines to NOT be named or linked with the attunements...

    i'd also add more conditions to ele weapon skills. it seems to me like ele should be able to use elements to poison enemies. after all, high concentrations of metals, found in the earth, are toxic.

    I'd like to build on what you said, and what some people already mentioned, to what I think is the root of Ele's inability to keep up.

    1- Attunement specific traits.
    As it has been raised previously, Ele minor adept and master core traits (except Arcana Line) only proc when switching to their respective elements. Therefore, adding to our stat deficiency, we also have built-in trait deficiency (or rather inefficiency). Hence why Arcana has always been a top pick, and core Ele so dead. And that is only if and when you switch; you gain nothing traitwise from camping a single attunement. You can in fact, but in practice your survival depends on switching between offense/defense; when other professions have a better balance overall, Ele's playstyle is too binary.
    2- Weapon skills.
    That binary mechanic is further carried on the weapon skills. Damage in Fire, Heal/support in Water, Mobility/CC in Air, Defense/CC in Earth. True, Eles have all in one set, but with a high opportunity cost. With long cast times/aftercast and no CC in Fire, landing damage on sapient small hitbox moving targets demands more precision and timing than other professions.

    I'll be short, the easiest and simplest way to fix improve ele would be to distribute damage coefficients more consistently across all attunements. Not in a Wordly Impact way, but enough so that we dont heal enemies when we hit them. We already have to invest too much in our own survivability: Gear, Traits, attunement swapping. Isn't Ele's point to do damage anyway?
    Also, some skills really don't have such a long cooldown justified (Hello Flamewall and Fire "shield" for instance). Quitting Cleansing Water would also feel like playing a new game. Maybe leave that for group support builds, but let us ways to cleanse and mitigate on a personal level without over reliance on water/arcana. I suggest making a Lesser elemental attunement and Lesser cleansing water baseline. Self-boon on attunement, self cleanse on regen, no AoE. That alone would give Eles a real class mechanic. I won't be asking more or complicated reworks since dev time is severely limited. I'll hope and pray for GW3.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

    I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

    Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

    I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

    Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

    I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

    Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    The problem is this ele brings boons ontop of its dmg to a fight both for its self and its group but these are on super short ranges or so far down lines and or needing so much work to get a non perma version of these boon where rev who can already get a perma version as well as other powerful boons with out giving up its dmg AS well as having much more tankly effects passively and actively all befor the rework of its support effects. After the rework for a class whom dose not need it before other classes (newest class should be last in line at least or at least should look at classes who are no longer viable befor hand) we may see rev start to do dps AND powerful boon support. That is the real end for the ele class and its all on anet and the devs. There is no dmg in the world that will make up for a class with dmg and strong boons this is not an nerf or buff factor this is a game made problem of the dev them self of ele and rev.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • VanWilder.6923VanWilder.6923 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

    I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

    Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    This is exactly what I really want too, for PvE.

    Look at how many responses and views for this "Concern", It shows that Elementalist really has problem in all 3 game modes.
    Hope that we do not need a year or more to see good updates for Ele.

  • @Feanor.2358 said:

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    Funny, because I'd prefer the exact opposite: dps shouldn't be low, but changing tactics on the fly is what I like best about ele. It's nice to be able to deal damage, but it's even better to change to a different attunement and spend a few seconds support (giving up some dps of course, it should still be balanced) and then go back to full dps.

    Glpyhs, combo fields/finishers and traits like Arcane Precision and Elemental Attunement is what I like most about ele.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

    I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

    Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    The problem is this ele brings boons ontop of its dmg

    It's irrelevant in PvE. The boons you provide are already covered, and better.> @ThiBash.5634 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    Funny, because I'd prefer the exact opposite: dps shouldn't be low, but changing tactics on the fly is what I like best about ele. It's nice to be able to deal damage, but it's even better to change to a different attunement and spend a few seconds support (giving up some dps of course, it should still be balanced) and then go back to full dps.

    Glpyhs, combo fields/finishers and traits like Arcane Precision and Elemental Attunement is what I like most about ele.

    Again, I don't mind you having that. Albeit it is a bit strange for the class with most fragile base stats to be extremely durable and tough. But if you want that, sure. As long as the glass cannon remains an option.

  • @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

    I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

    Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    The problem is this ele brings boons ontop of its dmg

    It's irrelevant in PvE. The boons you provide are already covered, and better.> @ThiBash.5634 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    Funny, because I'd prefer the exact opposite: dps shouldn't be low, but changing tactics on the fly is what I like best about ele. It's nice to be able to deal damage, but it's even better to change to a different attunement and spend a few seconds support (giving up some dps of course, it should still be balanced) and then go back to full dps.

    Glpyhs, combo fields/finishers and traits like Arcane Precision and Elemental Attunement is what I like most about ele.

    Again, I don't mind you having that. Albeit it is a bit strange for the class with most fragile base stats to be extremely durable and tough. But if you want that, sure. As long as the glass cannon remains an option.

    you cant have fragile base stats and not be durable and tough - against real people or with random pugs you will get slaughtered and be a liability.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

    I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

    Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    The problem is this ele brings boons ontop of its dmg

    It's irrelevant in PvE. The boons you provide are already covered, and better.> @ThiBash.5634 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    Funny, because I'd prefer the exact opposite: dps shouldn't be low, but changing tactics on the fly is what I like best about ele. It's nice to be able to deal damage, but it's even better to change to a different attunement and spend a few seconds support (giving up some dps of course, it should still be balanced) and then go back to full dps.

    Glpyhs, combo fields/finishers and traits like Arcane Precision and Elemental Attunement is what I like most about ele.

    Again, I don't mind you having that. Albeit it is a bit strange for the class with most fragile base stats to be extremely durable and tough. But if you want that, sure. As long as the glass cannon remains an option.

    The boons rev give you are way better as rev can give you perma fury might swiftness as well as burst boons of self quickness and aoe stab. Its very relevant in pve as offten that +50% dmg out put.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Xillllix.3485Xillllix.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zelse.9780 said:
    The identity of what the elementalist was back in the day (jack of all trades/glass cannon damage dealer) is no longer a relevant option with the constant changes with other classes received along with the new elite specs that have put other classes in specific niches (healer/boon support) while giving the elementalists and their elite specs to just float around trying to find out what they are, and what they provide. They were only used in group play for their aoe/damage, however, lost their only "niche" from being damage dealer to being completely irrelevant and out classed in practically every aspect especially in pve. Why bring an elementalist when you can bring a class that can do it better, and easier to play?

    Elementalist when I first started playing it was a very difficult class to play, and the learning curve was definitely not recommended for beginners, just look up any of the youtube videos that recommends classes for beginners, however, I learned to play and play well to achieve the damage that was promised me when I master this unique class. With that being said, no new player would ever want to play a class that was difficult to play only to achieve average potential in all aspects of game modes, especially pve which when you are a new player that is the first thing you are introduced to.

    I'm a bit confused as to why elementalists got such hard nerfs especially staff when it was clearly apparent that the other classes just needed buffs. The changes to meteor has impacted the staff builds drastically making core, tempest, and weavers obsolete. Like, in what alternate universe are players punished for channeling the full cast time of the meteor skill? Channeling the full skill is a dps loss which to me makes absolutely no sense.

    With a serious identity crisis, the not so rewarding high learning curve for mediocre satisfaction, and unwanted nerfs leaves you with a taste of dissatisfaction and and an after taste of disappointment.

    Can't agree more.

  • Usagi.4835Usagi.4835 Member ✭✭
    edited August 25, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

    I don't understand why people are rolling over and thinking it was necessary or appropriate or that there has to be a compromise first before other aspects of ele can be reworked. Isn't it possible for ANet to do both? It's not as if any current ele builds have very good damage, sustain and utility/CC all on one build like certain other professions do. As far as I know, most players weren't even reaching the benchmarks for staff weaver in real-time during raids. So the problem is actually people's obsession with golem benchmarks and their inability to pry themselves away from that and, worse still, the schadenfreude e.g. "If necro DPS is down in the dumps, you deserve it and now you know how we feel." As somebody smartly pointed out once, balance is not, nor should it be, a merry-go-round.

    In WvW, two expansions later, there's no need for staff ele water fields because firebrands and chronos do sustain much better. Static Field and Unsteady Ground were capped at 10 targets and so became less important, and have now been replaced mostly by chronos spamming focus pull into AOE. As for damage, people opt for the faster, more reliable damage of hammer revs. I can't remember who said it, but just so everyone is clear, the meta is NOT GWEN. It's chronos, firebrands, spellbreakers and hammer revs. And maybe scourges. I don't mind the wind-up time on some staff skills, I just want the damage back. Epidemic being gutted was probably influenced in equal parts by its abuse in WvW and raids, but raids dictate the direction of balance to a greater degree.

  • ROMANG.1903ROMANG.1903 Member ✭✭✭

    @GunshotsByComputer.8051 said:
    We loved Elements of Rage (EoR) but on a pure design standpoint it does not make much sense, Weaver is all about weaving magic and dual attune, therefore EoR should compliment dual-attunements gameplay.

    I agree with almost your entire post (the lingering X-mancer idea is great!) however I have to disagree on this. I don't feel like double-attuning to the same element should not be a thing to do.
    On the contrary, I beleive that since you're giving up the new, refreshed cooldowns that you would have accessed to by attuning to a different element instead, double attuning is a high-risk move, that should be rewarded somehow, and the current EoR effect does that. I like that dynamic, and I wouldn't want to see it go away. However, if it is possible to make it even more interesting (because let's be honnest, it's currently nothing more than a flat damage increase :p), I'm all for it!

  • Capodicapis.6819Capodicapis.6819 Member ✭✭
    edited August 26, 2018

    sPVP/WVW/PVE
    Hey everyone, Dominusa here!, i have 2 legend tittles, didn´t played last season for personal matters.
    Been playing only ele since the release of gw2, these are my toughts:

    A) SPVP/WVW: Sword ele skills need more range, any target can quit your damage just by running straight.
    A.1) The rest of the sword elementalist's features are overpowered as Fxxk, you just need the corrrects stats and 4-5 years mastericing the class. 95% of the ele players just don´t know how to play it correctly, i mean i can go fight 1v5, 1v6 inside WVW and stay alive while i kill some of them.

    B) PVE: Staff ele need more damage, is useless for raids right now, no one wants to invite me to raids anymore.

    C) Arenanet you are doing and amazing job with this game, just keep the good work, this game is a diamond.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Capodicapis.6819 said:
    sPVP/WVW/PVE
    Hey everyone, Dominusa here!, i have 2 legend tittles, didn´t played last season for personal matters.
    Been playing only ele since the release of gw2, these are my toughts:

    A) SPVP/WVW: Sword ele skills need more range, any target can quit your damage just by running straight.
    A.1) The rest of the sword elementalist's features are overpowered as Fxxk, you just need the corrrects stats and 4-5 years mastericing the class. 95% of the ele players just don´t know how to play it correctly, i mean i can go fight 1v5, 1v6 inside WVW and stay alive while i kill some of them.

    B) PVE: Staff ele need more damage, is useless for raids right now, no one wants to invite me to raids anymore.

    C) Arenanet you are doing and amazing job with this game, just keep the good work, this game is a diamond.

    I have a feeling you dont understand what OP means. If class requires mastering to be useful then it's not OP, it's intended. If class requires "correct" stats to do what some classes can do in glass cannon gear, it's not OP, it's intended.

    At least it was intended in core game, but devs made it worse when they introduced unkillable specs in glass cannon gear that do a lot of damage. It's like cele ele didn't teach them anything, and even then balance wasnt as bad as now since it's cele, not berserker.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 26, 2018

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

    I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

    Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    The problem is this ele brings boons ontop of its dmg

    It's irrelevant in PvE. The boons you provide are already covered, and better.> @ThiBash.5634 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    Funny, because I'd prefer the exact opposite: dps shouldn't be low, but changing tactics on the fly is what I like best about ele. It's nice to be able to deal damage, but it's even better to change to a different attunement and spend a few seconds support (giving up some dps of course, it should still be balanced) and then go back to full dps.

    Glpyhs, combo fields/finishers and traits like Arcane Precision and Elemental Attunement is what I like most about ele.

    Again, I don't mind you having that. Albeit it is a bit strange for the class with most fragile base stats to be extremely durable and tough. But if you want that, sure. As long as the glass cannon remains an option.

    you cant have fragile base stats and not be durable and tough - against real people or with random pugs you will get slaughtered and be a liability.

    That's only pvp perspective. Doesn't work that way in pve. Besides, I actually can. I run full glass in wvw. Against real people. I also run the full glass meta in pugs, because I know the content well enough and I'm confident I can pull it off.

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

    To be honest, my main concern is that after years of being a god awful terrible class that is pigeon-holed to dirt and after 11 months of having 0 meta builds in sPvP or WvW at all and ONLY after ele lost its spot as #1 damage dealer in PvE, making it non-meta in all three game modes, you'll only give us crumbs or nerfs after making us think you actually care about making ele a useful class in ALL THREE game modes. My concern is that you won't normalize ele in the way ele players want to be normalized-- that you won't give us multiple DECENT grand masters like mesmer has or more than 1 useful elite like every single class has. My concern is that you will continue your habit of allowing the bones of ele to be garbage, like our multiple useless utility skills, useless elites, useless traits, useless amulets, and lack of overall build diversity like you have since launch. That you'd prefer to preemptively weaken ele so you won't have to deal with ele being overpowered, like 100% stealth uptime condi thief that could condi bomb anyone to death without ever for a second leaving stealth, even soloing RAID BOSSES for an entire season. Like Diviner's Chaos Chronomancer who had a block that did 14k damage, who had boon rips that did 8k damage, who had 100% uptime of vigor, aegis, protection, stability, alacrity, regen, and swiftness and who could beat every class in the game WITH EASE and could even 2v1 warrior... while they had 0 toughness vitality or healing power. Deadeye builds that could (literally) 1 shot opponents from stealth and 1500 range, or could spam 1 button and do 40k damage in 5 seconds on an enemy. Or launch condi scourge that was... yeah. We know. Or launch condi mirage that could 1v3 people easily. Or launch berserker war who could regen 1.2k health and do 10k-20k crits with Gunflame. Yeah, I'm not holding my breath for this patch.

  • Waisenpai.6028Waisenpai.6028 Member ✭✭
    edited August 26, 2018

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

    I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

    Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    The problem is this ele brings boons ontop of its dmg

    It's irrelevant in PvE. The boons you provide are already covered, and better.> @ThiBash.5634 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    Funny, because I'd prefer the exact opposite: dps shouldn't be low, but changing tactics on the fly is what I like best about ele. It's nice to be able to deal damage, but it's even better to change to a different attunement and spend a few seconds support (giving up some dps of course, it should still be balanced) and then go back to full dps.

    Glpyhs, combo fields/finishers and traits like Arcane Precision and Elemental Attunement is what I like most about ele.

    Again, I don't mind you having that. Albeit it is a bit strange for the class with most fragile base stats to be extremely durable and tough. But if you want that, sure. As long as the glass cannon remains an option.

    you cant have fragile base stats and not be durable and tough - against real people or with random pugs you will get slaughtered and be a liability.

    That's only pvp perspective. Doesn't work that way in pve. Besides, I actually can. I run full glass in wvw. Against real people. I also run the full glass meta in pugs, because I know the content well enough and I'm confident I can pull it off.

    Keep in mind he plays in EU and most of the guys he fight aren't great. Come to NA fight the 1v3 and 1v 4 vs Mirages, Soulbeast snaring/cloaking rangers, Yolo Power Holo, Dead eye and scourge tag teams. Hey fight a SB, Fire brand, Dead eye and Herald ( 4v1). Or you can come fight me in NA. I always have an open policy. Glass ele is weak and the extra hitting an extra 15 or 20% of a skil that does 2 to 3k damage means jack.

    Sword Weavers are decent 1v1 vs non POF metas in wvw. Sadly sword still has low packet damage, very small range and is easy to read. Good luck catching holo, mirage, or firebrand if fleeing from battle. You will never catch the others. And chill from Reapers gibs you so hard.

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 26, 2018

    I've been thinking alot how to make daggers viable again, as it's by far the weaponset I have used the most (mainly WvW). So will try to keep it short and reasonable:

    Skill #1 (Auto)

    Fire:
    Dragon's Claw might have been great in the past, but right now it's very lackluster - the coefficient is low, the damage split into 3 packets and the projectile path is easy to avoid. It would help alot if it become an 240 radius PBAoE attack instead, giving alot of synergy with other fire skills and deter opponents from staying too close for too long, plus then the cast time would be justified.

    Water:
    This auto is in serious need of improvement, the only thing it got going for it is the range and vulnerability application. I would give it 2 stacks of vulnerability on hit, make it a circular boomerang arc instead, granting 2 seconds of regeneration for each ally it passes through (for synergy with Cleansing Water)

    Air:
    I like the whip effect of this skill, but currently it's too slow and deals little damage. I think with fresh air in mind giving this skill 3 auto frames would be beneficial (in order to detect stealthed players and camping in air). Maybe manifest a lightning shard that do regular 130 radius melee damage for the first two hits, then it turns into a 400 range whip as the third hit allowing you to combo it with an evade/dodge backwards, keeping it a midranged weapon.

    Earth:
    I absolutely love this auto, please don't change the pathing because it's one of a kind counter to opponents that are kiting. It would be alot more useful if the range was increased to 400 atleast though (let's be honest, with all the swiftness/superspeed/leapd/teleports in todays game it's hard to keep up), and it applied 1 second of cripple and weakness per cast instead. Keep casting time.

    Skill #2

    Fire:
    Drake's Breath - great for condition builds who can lock players down, but that's not an easy task without getting interrupted due to the long cast time. As such we should keep it a channel skill, but allow it to burn away 1 opponent boon at the first tick and last tick, increasing the cooldown to 10 seconds. This means you can use it tactically and encourages opponents to take defensive action before the channel ends (instead of just applying resistance and keep attacking).

    Water:
    This skill is decent, but we might aswell remove the damage component and let it stack 2 stacks of vulnerability instead per tick while buffing the overall healing and healing power contribution, to make it rewarding yet risky to finish the long channel.

    Air:
    Lightning touch - as is doesn't make much sense, the cast time is too long and the range is counterintuitive to when it's best used (after Updraft so you know it will connect). Make this an instant cast 400 range weakness application, reduce the weakness duration to 4 seconds and increase the cooldown of the skill to 12.

    Earth:
    This is an excellent skill, damage is superb and the bleeding helps alot. The only problem is that as a projectile block it's often used out of utility rather than damage, and for that it's a little to slow. I would give it the 1/4 second cast time of Frozen Burst, and remove the cripple (since my verson of the auto applies that)

    Skill #3

    Fire:
    By far my favourite skill! The only changes I would propose here are few, but extremely necessary. First make it a true 600 range slide. Second shorten the activation/precast or increase the evade window, because more often than not I get interrupted after I press the skill and my character is "charging" up. It's annoying when your timing is on point and every other skill would have let you evade the attack. There are already so many firefields on ele weapons in both hands, so I'd rather remove the field and add 1 stack of burning on the blast. Keep damage.

    Water:
    This is also an excellent skill. Maybe reduce the damage to 0.1 coefficient and make it unblockable - this would give it a ton of uses since water isn't a damage attunement. (While I remember, a good trait in water could be "Apply chill = 2 stacks of vulnerability")

    Air:
    Please please keep this. It's another unique counter to certain attacks like a revenant sword #3 or staff #5, and a great way to proc warrior's traited balanced stance, and also hit guardians through aegis plus in general to give you some breathing space. The only thing that I think is necessary, is to make it more reliable by decreasing the cooldown to maybe 15 - 20 seconds (remember you can only get 4 of these, 2 locked behind tempest and the 3rd in an auto proc trait with a hefty cooldown)

    Earth:
    The concept here is great, but incredibly unreliable for the chain skill. Maybe increase the projectile velocity slightly for more reliable hits, and make the chain skill more of a warriors Bull's Charge that follows the target, and maybe applies cripple on connect.

    Skill #4

    Fire:
    Ring of fire is overall an awesome skill, great damage and great burning application. What would skyrocket this skills utility though, would be to keep the initial burning but use a 2 second blind on the pass through instead (and once on skill use). This would give us incredible defense against burst attacks, like a thief's steal, guardians teleport, other elementalists Ride the Lightning or a mesmer's Phase Retreat burst. Especially on nodes it can, because of the field duration, be used as proactive defense without having to invest into a grandmaster trait in a traitline that might not offer much other utility, making the cost steep.

    Water:
    This is in itself decent, but more reliant on traits than anything. We need Powerful Aura changed to something else (what about "Apply chill = 2 stacks of vulnerability"? ;) ) and make all weapon auras affect 5 allies, because they are few and far inbetween (since no weapon swap). This and a reduction in cooldown (maybe 20 seconds) plus whatever can be done to buff auras, would be more than enough to make this a powerful defensive skill.

    Air:
    Ride the Lightning is cool, no doubt. We can keep the movement part a non evade, but maybe add a 1/4 second daze to the person you hit for some reactive use. Everything else about this skill should remain.

    Earth:
    This is tricky to use, because it roots you for a significant duration and has a long windup. I would suggest to make it more like warrior's Stomp utility skill, but only with the 450 range and lowered casting time. If those two are fixed it will be a great setup for the Dagger#5 in earth.

    Skill #5

    Fire:
    This can be incredibly unreliable, although when it connects it's a great concept. I would however change it to a skill with the numbers of mesmer's greatsword #5 (1/2 sec cast time, same cone and the 450 range, 5 targets) which applies a new effect to the targets hit - this effect would simply be similar to daredevils pulmonary impact, but when applied it gives 1 stack of 3 sec burning only. After a delay of 2 seconds the effect will expire and do the same damage as the skill does today. Meaning if you cleanse that burn you will only get the 1,75 coefficient, but if you don't the 2.8 will hurt..alot! This will also allow elementalists to attunement swap into another element right after cast for more massive burst opportunities so it's not only helpful in fire attunement (while at the same time open for counters like invulnerability, cleanse, healthrough or mitigation through resistance). Keep the cooldown, but I understand if this would demand a slight increase.

    Water:
    This is another example of a skill that was great in the past, but it simply doesn't hold up in todays pace of play. I would suggest making it an instant cast 3 second "Brimming mist" that regenerates health at a rapid rate and stacks with soothing mist while removing a condition each second, to allow a burst of recovery. Keep the cooldown and the 5 targets. If you need a cast time on this, atleast make it a temporary short waterfield like on engi heal turret for even more synergy, as daggers only have one for Weaver.

    Air:
    This is also a good hard CC skill of the ele, but it could use some love. Make the rollback remove movement impairing conditions and have the launch be significant, maybe 450 units or so. All this would now justify the significant cooldown.

    Earth:
    Churning Earth for the win! This a great skill, but obviously it has some massive drawbacks. Luckily the way it works offers a plethora of possible solutions to make it more reliable. The biggest issue currently is that it can easily be interrupted, and to counter this I would suggest a it gives 1 stack of stability per target (up to 5) for 2 seconds within the radius upon activation. Which means if you use this and then teleport you lose this benefit. Since the bleeding stacks are applied depending on your distance to the elementalist, I would suggest adding an immobilize (1 second) here instead that is reapplied each pulse (dodgeable and blockable). For such massive group control a 40 second base cooldown is justified, so increase it if needed, and adjust bleeding stacks and duration accordingly although I'd rather see cripple and immob be the only conditions applied by this skill.

    Thoughts:

    Phew that was alot! I think elementalist will be best served with traits that enhance build types like the one I mentioned about chill + vulnerability, and an earth trait that makes the earth skills proc bleeds, fire proc burn, water proc vulnerability and so on. The first minor in every element traitline give 240 power/precision/toughness/healingpower/concentration because let's face it, even with all the extra stats from weaver we are still the squishiest class. Water traitline needs to become alot more dependent on healing power scaling, and we need more ways to cleanse conditions outside of regeneration and cantrips. Air discharge need to proc blind and the 20% more damage below 50% health traits need a rework across the board. Fire needs less damage modifiers and more might generation, and benefits on might to make up for damage loss. Earth could use more condition damage/duration reduction. Arcane really ought to simply get better options, as most of the traits are just generally bad - it should create synergies with other traitlines while keeping an arcane option all the way through (either bottom, middle or top), because right now it's a mess. Grandmaster traits need a revision all over too as some of them don't bring that much value.

    Alright that's enough from me, I really hope we get a rework at some point that will bring us up there with the rest of the especs, as most elementalists I know play it exclusively and have since they started. Always sad to see people give the game up because they feel their profession is no longer rewarding enough :/

  • ROMANG.1903ROMANG.1903 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:
    I have a feeling you dont understand what OP means. If class requires mastering to be useful then it's not OP, it's intended. If class requires "correct" stats to do what some classes can do in glass cannon gear, it's not OP, it's intended.

    But a class being hard to play shouldn't be a reason to make it more powerful than others classes when played correctly. In the perfect world, all classes would have the same power when played at peak mastery, but that peak mastery would be harder to reach on some classes than others.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ROMANG.1903 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    I have a feeling you dont understand what OP means. If class requires mastering to be useful then it's not OP, it's intended. If class requires "correct" stats to do what some classes can do in glass cannon gear, it's not OP, it's intended.

    But a class being hard to play shouldn't be a reason to make it more powerful than others classes when played correctly. In the perfect world, all classes would have the same power when played at peak mastery, but that peak mastery would be harder to reach on some classes than others.

    Then there's no reason to play such classes. If you have to play flawlessly to achieve same results that someone gets from passive trait procs and two weapon skills then such class is worthless.Why would you put effort in something if you get nothing out of it? And no, answer is not fun since there's nothing fun about losing a fight because you mistimed some skill by half second, while your enemy just spams stuff and gets easy results with no drawbacks.

    It's like saying that programmers should have same salary as cashiers.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Waisenpai.6028 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I think the up and coming update to herald is going to remove ele from wvw viable maybe pvp over all. It dose not seem that dmg is getting nerf at all on the hearald class but now its going to be more able to bring more buffs for the group. Ele was always behind before the update to herald with a blast / aura fury vs a perma fury passively. Anet tell me your not updating a class that is used often over classes not being used at all like tempest.

    I don't believe we will see any large (game-changing) updates of the ele. I lost hope. I am expecting it to be below trash and less needed profession for a long time.

    Well what was probably stopping Ele from getting important updates to push them out of trash tier on all game modes was their ability to deal too much DPS on Raid bosses. "Hey, Staff Weaver deals too much DPS on golems and raid bosses so it must be good". I have some faith (little) now that part of the Elementalist is no longer true we might see some updates to the rest of the Elementalist skillset to make the profession at least viable in anything other than DPSing raid bosses.

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    The problem is this ele brings boons ontop of its dmg

    It's irrelevant in PvE. The boons you provide are already covered, and better.> @ThiBash.5634 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    Meh, I don't really care about the potential other applications. I mean, if you insist - sure, whatever. But all I really want from ele is to dps bosses and bomb zergs.

    Funny, because I'd prefer the exact opposite: dps shouldn't be low, but changing tactics on the fly is what I like best about ele. It's nice to be able to deal damage, but it's even better to change to a different attunement and spend a few seconds support (giving up some dps of course, it should still be balanced) and then go back to full dps.

    Glpyhs, combo fields/finishers and traits like Arcane Precision and Elemental Attunement is what I like most about ele.

    Again, I don't mind you having that. Albeit it is a bit strange for the class with most fragile base stats to be extremely durable and tough. But if you want that, sure. As long as the glass cannon remains an option.

    you cant have fragile base stats and not be durable and tough - against real people or with random pugs you will get slaughtered and be a liability.

    That's only pvp perspective. Doesn't work that way in pve. Besides, I actually can. I run full glass in wvw. Against real people. I also run the full glass meta in pugs, because I know the content well enough and I'm confident I can pull it off.

    Keep in mind he plays in EU and most of the guys he fight aren't great. Come to NA fight the 1v3 and 1v 4 vs Mirages, Soulbeast snaring/cloaking rangers, Yolo Power Holo, Dead eye and scourge tag teams. Hey fight a SB, Fire brand, Dead eye and Herald ( 4v1). Or you can come fight me in NA. I always have an open policy. Glass ele is weak and the extra hitting an extra 15 or 20% of a skil that does 2 to 3k damage means jack.

    It's a weak roamer, no doubt about that. But I'm not interested in roaming and dueling. And there's no point to invest heavily in defenses for my usage (backline).

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 26, 2018

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    It's a weak roamer, no doubt about that. But I'm not interested in roaming and dueling. And there's no point to invest heavily in defenses for my usage (backline).

    It is not about what you are interested in(only). The ele is not here ONLY for you.
    His point is that glass ele is weak. It has the lowest possible HP and the dmg is just not there. While we have power shatter mesmer (just giving an example) which has 3-4k more life in zerk gear (again light armor user) and still is capable of 1sec kills. Not to mention mesmer's mobility compared to ele + he got stealth. We have less health, less burst, less mobility, less utility and we have harder to execute combos and overall harder to play profession. Yes, we can heal a little more but does it matter when half of the builds there squeeze 20k+ bursts in 1 sec, while they are interrupting and stunning at the same time.

    And my point was not that ele is supposed to be only for me. My point, however, was that my interests and expectations are exactly as important as anyone else's. I'm presenting a different of both, since those who wrote before me seemed to be strongly set in their pvp views. Which is fine, of course. It's a valid consideration. But so is mine. Just like ele isn't only for me, it's not only for them either.

    I must say it's a bit disappointing I have to explain that.

  • Well i can still fight a 1v3 and get away if more come as a weaver, Not asking for Weaver buffs. But to restore some core buffs Like Fire or Earth or even tempest. Weaver is clear branch into either barrier/evasion or speed. Which means you can never catch the metas that are fighting you. But if they stay and fight in guard circle ring they will lose in time but it's a slow process. Core build which was meta in 2015 since blinding ash and burn buffs were fire, water, arcane. Fire tree was superior to hot at thtat time and was nerfed so hard to the ground and spvp even result in removing celestial stats. Previous when guild wars 2 had free points in stats you can put points in air, earth, arcane and water you can go 10 10 10 20. The game had a larger play variety and style people can use air and earth in compostion. Like you can get protection and have air spilke, water regen on attunment and 2/3 aracane tree. That was why ele was more delightful. You wil still get wreck in ccs but there was a rewarding flow. I played ele since my early days in guild wars 1 13 years or so. I originally play war and ranger, but Factions allowed me to enjoy RA, TA, HOH, GVG, FA , JQ and AB. Ele doesn't have to do more damage but have a better transition. Core builds need to flow back and same with HOT specs. POF is ok. Just like with warriors, Core war was improved since the war fan boys are way more direct to anet than we are. META vanilla war and SB are doing ok. They can be buffed a tad if their side requested in some aspects like transition of skills so its not so jerky game play wise. The beserker has become a one trick pony played in wvw by 2-3 gunflare spamming warriors with a havoc group covering them with FB, Scourge Deadeye and Rev. They are so annyoing if you need to escape from them.

    Mostly its to buff core since or daggers need to be rework. But to narrow it down so it does not accidently buff Weaver. I'd say buff fire (more base damage when foes burning and increase burn application) and earth (more bleeds and bleeds vs damage).

    Sword Weavers are decent 1v1 vs non POF metas in wvw. Sadly sword still has low packet damage, very small range and is easy to read. Good luck catching holo, mirage, or firebrand if fleeing from battle. You will never catch the others. And chill from Reapers gibs you so hard.

  • ROMANG.1903ROMANG.1903 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @ROMANG.1903 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    I have a feeling you dont understand what OP means. If class requires mastering to be useful then it's not OP, it's intended. If class requires "correct" stats to do what some classes can do in glass cannon gear, it's not OP, it's intended.

    But a class being hard to play shouldn't be a reason to make it more powerful than others classes when played correctly. In the perfect world, all classes would have the same power when played at peak mastery, but that peak mastery would be harder to reach on some classes than others.

    Then there's no reason to play such classes. If you have to play flawlessly to achieve same results that someone gets from passive trait procs and two weapon skills then such class is worthless.Why would you put effort in something if you get nothing out of it? And no, answer is not fun since there's nothing fun about losing a fight because you mistimed some skill by half second, while your enemy just spams stuff and gets easy results with no drawbacks.

    It's like saying that programmers should have same salary as cashiers.

    The reason to play such classes should not be because they are more powerful, but because they bring something else to the table than the easyer classes. For example a ranger is easy to play and has good damage with a good amount of CC, but if you want to have more versatility instead of your CC, then the elementalist is the way to go. You won't be more powerful because you're playing the elementalist, but you will have access to tools that the ranger doesn't have access to (and the ranger will have access to tools that the elementalist doesn't have access to).

    To put it simply, a class's difficulty to play shouldn't be define how powerful they are, but rather each class should have (to some extent) a different role and a thing that no other class can do. Wether that thing is more difficult to use for a class than another should come after, and skillcap shouldn't be forced into a class just for the sake of it.

  • @Feanor.2358 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    It's a weak roamer, no doubt about that. But I'm not interested in roaming and dueling. And there's no point to invest heavily in defenses for my usage (backline).

    It is not about what you are interested in(only). The ele is not here ONLY for you.
    His point is that glass ele is weak. It has the lowest possible HP and the dmg is just not there. While we have power shatter mesmer (just giving an example) which has 3-4k more life in zerk gear (again light armor user) and still is capable of 1sec kills. Not to mention mesmer's mobility compared to ele + he got stealth. We have less health, less burst, less mobility, less utility and we have harder to execute combos and overall harder to play profession. Yes, we can heal a little more but does it matter when half of the builds there squeeze 20k+ bursts in 1 sec, while they are interrupting and stunning at the same time.

    And my point was not that ele is supposed to be only for me. My point, however, was that my interests and expectations are exactly as important as anyone else's. I'm presenting a different of both, since those who wrote before me seemed to be strongly set in their pvp views. Which is fine, of course. It's a valid consideration. But so is mine. Just like ele isn't only for me, it's not only for them either.

    I must say it's a bit disappointing I have to explain that.

    The point is, yes your interests and expectations are valid as everyone else! Everyone has given their suggestion, on the other hand looks like you are on your own crusade to convince everybody ele must be glassy and have fragile gameplay cause you like it like that. You are trying to be more influential than everybody else. Your statements are in contraddictions with your behaviour.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ROMANG.1903 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @ROMANG.1903 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    I have a feeling you dont understand what OP means. If class requires mastering to be useful then it's not OP, it's intended. If class requires "correct" stats to do what some classes can do in glass cannon gear, it's not OP, it's intended.

    But a class being hard to play shouldn't be a reason to make it more powerful than others classes when played correctly. In the perfect world, all classes would have the same power when played at peak mastery, but that peak mastery would be harder to reach on some classes than others.

    Then there's no reason to play such classes. If you have to play flawlessly to achieve same results that someone gets from passive trait procs and two weapon skills then such class is worthless.Why would you put effort in something if you get nothing out of it? And no, answer is not fun since there's nothing fun about losing a fight because you mistimed some skill by half second, while your enemy just spams stuff and gets easy results with no drawbacks.

    It's like saying that programmers should have same salary as cashiers.

    The reason to play such classes should not be because they are more powerful, but because they bring something else to the table than the easyer classes. For example a ranger is easy to play and has good damage with a good amount of CC, but if you want to have more versatility instead of your CC, then the elementalist is the way to go. You won't be more powerful because you're playing the elementalist, but you will have access to tools that the ranger doesn't have access to (and the ranger will have access to tools that the elementalist doesn't have access to).

    To put it simply, a class's difficulty to play shouldn't be define how powerful they are, but rather each class should have (to some extent) a different role and a thing that no other class can do. Wether that thing is more difficult to use for a class than another should come after, and skillcap shouldn't be forced into a class just for the sake of it.

    There should always be diversity in class difficulty since some prefer easier classes, others prefer some challenge. But when there's huge difference in base stats on top of class difficulty, then there should certainly be some rewards for playing properly.

    Analogy with meta events: nobody plays that Vabbi meta event since rewards are bad and it's hard to do. People go to SW where they can run around, press 1, mount up again and repeat. Easy, reliable, profitable.

    So why should I bang my head against wall to reach X dps when there's class with aoe heals/blocks/cleanses/CC, almost double my healthpool/perma evades, which is easier to play and reaches over 5k more dps in actual raid scenario (assuming you play perfectly and their performance is average)? It's not like time matters, but delaying kill is rather stupid, especially when you play squishy class since less dmg output = more mechanics/damage taken.

    I agree that every class should have its niche and some special touch, but we're far from that, in every game mode. Mesmer has its niche in every corner of the game, so do guard, warr and even rev and engi. When was the last time ranger was useful in large wvw fights? It's not like it doesn't offer utility, it's just worthless. Sometimes you dont want utility, sometimes you just want raw (aoe) damage and no class-specific "thing" will help you if your class just straight up sucks for such content.

    Thematically and theoretically it's good to have different roles and all that stuff. But it's also breaking balance and there's nothing balanced about having nearly perma uptime on ~8 boons (with over 1k breakbar damage in pve), even if it's the "thing" of only one class.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2018

    I play a lot of Pvp and I’ve mained with Ele’s. Ele’s are lacking because of three things: no passive defenses, equal damage to everyone else, and sub-par healing. If they are ever gonna shine, they need buffs to at least one or two. As of right now, Ele’s have two options. Either become full glass cannon or healing tank. Many other classes can find a sweet spot in the middle: good damage and good survivability, but Ele’s can’t.

    Without any passive defenses, Ele’s get focused hard and die fast. Other classes get focused and go invulnerable/invisible/teleport, etc… Ele’s stunbreaks are on pretty high cooldown as well, which ruins their defense and chance of survival.

    Their damage is only useful if attacking enemies who are immobile, without blocks/damage reduction, etc… Basically NPC’s. Which is why it seems like Ele’s are so strong in Pve when they’re really not. In Pvp, other classes give out good damage even in horrible situations. Ele’s only give out good damage in perfect circumstances. If you’re gonna keep everything the same, at least boost their damage.

    Lastly, healing for Ele’s is only good if spec’ed in healing/water. You have to take healing power in order for your healing to actually work. Water trait line is needed for the Ele to better heal and also condition cleanse. This forces Ele’s to take options they don’t want to take!
    Changes have to be made. Either higher DPS to outweigh other weaknesses. Or better healing to out heal damage. Or lastly, passive defenses which protects them while being focused. Preferably, I would increase their damage mainly, then increase their heals just a bit. This recommendation matches with the classes persona.

    I was gonna talk about Ele weapon skills but Steki.1478 did a great job on page 2 about it. Nearly everything that was mentioned I agree on. Yes, Ele has 20 abilities, but half of those abilities suck and that excuse is used for every nerf in Ele history! Please look at the post and apply!
    Elite skills are absurd. I rarely rely on elite’s for anything. Firesword is too long cooldown, tornado does not give any buffs to player so I’m a powerful storm that will die in two seconds. NPC companion elite would be better if you could keep them for a long time. Weaver elite needs better element buffs and it should not root on activation.

    Weaver should have an F5 ability which allows you to fully attune. There’s hidden skills when becoming a weaver that you can’t use unless you screw up your rotation by double attuning. Instead, put an F5 that allows you to do that, so when an Ele is being focused, they can easily switch to whatever is needed really fast. If not F5, then have weaver’s change attunements almost instantly. Most weavers are forced into speccing arcana because of attunement swap reduction. Yes, this sounds OP, but Ele already has long CD’s, it’s not as dramatic as you might think.

    As mentioned by others, Aura’s do need a rework. Mostly Fire Aura-complete trash; give it something else. Water Aura would be better if increased damage reduction. Earth aura should also give protection, heals, barrier, or something.

    Sunshine.5014 brought out a good point as well. Trait lines are too focused on one thing. Water is heals and Cleansing, Earth is toughness and defense. Spread out the buffs to all trait lines, but nerf them slightly so the Ele does not become OP. That will help diversity!

    Conditions: Ele’s have access to Burns, Chill, Bleed’s and Vulnerability. Yet, you never see an Ele condi build! So many classes use those conditions better! It just doesn’t make sense why ele’s aren’t dominating the condi builds! It needs a massive rework or 3rd elite spec that specializes in it.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arados.4890 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    It's a weak roamer, no doubt about that. But I'm not interested in roaming and dueling. And there's no point to invest heavily in defenses for my usage (backline).

    It is not about what you are interested in(only). The ele is not here ONLY for you.
    His point is that glass ele is weak. It has the lowest possible HP and the dmg is just not there. While we have power shatter mesmer (just giving an example) which has 3-4k more life in zerk gear (again light armor user) and still is capable of 1sec kills. Not to mention mesmer's mobility compared to ele + he got stealth. We have less health, less burst, less mobility, less utility and we have harder to execute combos and overall harder to play profession. Yes, we can heal a little more but does it matter when half of the builds there squeeze 20k+ bursts in 1 sec, while they are interrupting and stunning at the same time.

    And my point was not that ele is supposed to be only for me. My point, however, was that my interests and expectations are exactly as important as anyone else's. I'm presenting a different of both, since those who wrote before me seemed to be strongly set in their pvp views. Which is fine, of course. It's a valid consideration. But so is mine. Just like ele isn't only for me, it's not only for them either.

    I must say it's a bit disappointing I have to explain that.

    The point is, yes your interests and expectations are valid as everyone else! Everyone has given their suggestion, on the other hand looks like you are on your own crusade to convince everybody ele must be glassy and have fragile gameplay cause you like it like that. You are trying to be more influential than everybody else. Your statements are in contraddictions with your behaviour.

    You're really reading more in my words than I put into them. All I've said originally is that we have lowest base defences and therefore will always be glassier than everyone else. Implying equal other factors, obviously. Which is a mathematical fact.

    Aside from that, I'm merely pointing out pvp perspective isn't the only one. If you ask me, it shouldn't even be the main one, since this has always been a primarily pve game. But no matter, I'm willing to accept pvp balance perspective as equally important. You're still not happy? Sorry, that's as far as I go. If you choose to take issues with my stance, that's your own problem which you need to deal with on your own.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Now, with that said, I don't know how Anet may fix it because ele is super complex but the most reasonable solution for me is a complete rework + building the next elite spec while keeping in mind all these things.

    Is this the point of this thread? To find solution to the Elementalist problems?

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Now, with that said, I don't know how Anet may fix it because ele is super complex but the most reasonable solution for me is a complete rework + building the next elite spec while keeping in mind all these things.

    Is this the point of this thread? To find solution to the Elementalist problems?

    We are giving suggestions based on our concerns (which I think is the point of this thread). How and if Anet will make any changes is a completely different story.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Now, with that said, I don't know how Anet may fix it because ele is super complex but the most reasonable solution for me is a complete rework + building the next elite spec while keeping in mind all these things.

    Is this the point of this thread? To find solution to the Elementalist problems?

    We are giving suggestions based on our concerns (which I think is the point of this thread). How and if Anet will make any changes is a completely different story.

    I hope next time they do a balance pass they will read our concerns ;)

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Now, with that said, I don't know how Anet may fix it because ele is super complex but the most reasonable solution for me is a complete rework + building the next elite spec while keeping in mind all these things.

    So you're saying we should just wait another year for ele to be good?

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2018

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    Now, with that said, I don't know how Anet may fix it because ele is super complex but the most reasonable solution for me is a complete rework + building the next elite spec while keeping in mind all these things.

    So you're saying we should just wait another year for ele to be good?

    No, this is not what I am saying.
    My suggestion (and what I am saying) is a complete rework (of the current specs) PLUS building the next elite spec (in the future) in a way that they won't have to make complete rework of it, too. Because, IMO, buffing one skill or nerfing another will not work with such a complex profession - aka a complete rework will be better. In other words, you don't have to wait for a year for the "complete rework", just for the next elite spec.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Arados.4890 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    It's a weak roamer, no doubt about that. But I'm not interested in roaming and dueling. And there's no point to invest heavily in defenses for my usage (backline).

    It is not about what you are interested in(only). The ele is not here ONLY for you.
    His point is that glass ele is weak. It has the lowest possible HP and the dmg is just not there. While we have power shatter mesmer (just giving an example) which has 3-4k more life in zerk gear (again light armor user) and still is capable of 1sec kills. Not to mention mesmer's mobility compared to ele + he got stealth. We have less health, less burst, less mobility, less utility and we have harder to execute combos and overall harder to play profession. Yes, we can heal a little more but does it matter when half of the builds there squeeze 20k+ bursts in 1 sec, while they are interrupting and stunning at the same time.

    And my point was not that ele is supposed to be only for me. My point, however, was that my interests and expectations are exactly as important as anyone else's. I'm presenting a different of both, since those who wrote before me seemed to be strongly set in their pvp views. Which is fine, of course. It's a valid consideration. But so is mine. Just like ele isn't only for me, it's not only for them either.

    I must say it's a bit disappointing I have to explain that.

    The point is, yes your interests and expectations are valid as everyone else! Everyone has given their suggestion, on the other hand looks like you are on your own crusade to convince everybody ele must be glassy and have fragile gameplay cause you like it like that. You are trying to be more influential than everybody else. Your statements are in contraddictions with your behaviour.

    You're really reading more in my words than I put into them. All I've said originally is that we have lowest base defences and therefore will always be glassier than everyone else. Implying equal other factors, obviously. Which is a mathematical fact.

    Aside from that, I'm merely pointing out pvp perspective isn't the only one. If you ask me, it shouldn't even be the main one, since this has always been a primarily pve game. But no matter, I'm willing to accept pvp balance perspective as equally important. You're still not happy? Sorry, that's as far as I go. If you choose to take issues with my stance, that's your own problem which you need to deal with on your own.

    Apparently i'm not the only one reading more in your words than you put into them. And aside from that, we already got the fact that you are pointing out the pvp perspective isn't the only one from your many comments. The fact that you keep commenting other ideas with sentences like "Meh, this sounds bad cause i don't like it" or "meh, this isn't good for the use i have in mind, i'd rather not see it happen" is a bit disrespectful towards other people opinions don't you think? Hell then i might start commenting every pve perspective post saying "well, i really don't like this change cause that wouldn't be the playstyle that fits me in pvp, so i would really don't like it if it happened" or something like that. Who am i to give myself so much importance, who am i representing? "I must say it's a bit disappointing i have to explain that". Ah and for your information, just in case you've been living under a rock, pve is always been the main focus of this game for a long time: there are much more players doing pve content than pvp players, mathematical fact. You still don't get it? Sorry that's as far as i go, maybe one day you will

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arados.4890 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Arados.4890 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    It's a weak roamer, no doubt about that. But I'm not interested in roaming and dueling. And there's no point to invest heavily in defenses for my usage (backline).

    It is not about what you are interested in(only). The ele is not here ONLY for you.
    His point is that glass ele is weak. It has the lowest possible HP and the dmg is just not there. While we have power shatter mesmer (just giving an example) which has 3-4k more life in zerk gear (again light armor user) and still is capable of 1sec kills. Not to mention mesmer's mobility compared to ele + he got stealth. We have less health, less burst, less mobility, less utility and we have harder to execute combos and overall harder to play profession. Yes, we can heal a little more but does it matter when half of the builds there squeeze 20k+ bursts in 1 sec, while they are interrupting and stunning at the same time.

    And my point was not that ele is supposed to be only for me. My point, however, was that my interests and expectations are exactly as important as anyone else's. I'm presenting a different of both, since those who wrote before me seemed to be strongly set in their pvp views. Which is fine, of course. It's a valid consideration. But so is mine. Just like ele isn't only for me, it's not only for them either.

    I must say it's a bit disappointing I have to explain that.

    The point is, yes your interests and expectations are valid as everyone else! Everyone has given their suggestion, on the other hand looks like you are on your own crusade to convince everybody ele must be glassy and have fragile gameplay cause you like it like that. You are trying to be more influential than everybody else. Your statements are in contraddictions with your behaviour.

    You're really reading more in my words than I put into them. All I've said originally is that we have lowest base defences and therefore will always be glassier than everyone else. Implying equal other factors, obviously. Which is a mathematical fact.

    Aside from that, I'm merely pointing out pvp perspective isn't the only one. If you ask me, it shouldn't even be the main one, since this has always been a primarily pve game. But no matter, I'm willing to accept pvp balance perspective as equally important. You're still not happy? Sorry, that's as far as I go. If you choose to take issues with my stance, that's your own problem which you need to deal with on your own.

    Apparently i'm not the only one reading more in your words than you put into them. And aside from that, we already got the fact that you are pointing out the pvp perspective isn't the only one from your many comments. The fact that you keep commenting other ideas with sentences like "Meh, this sounds bad cause i don't like it" or "meh, this isn't good for the use i have in mind, i'd rather not see it happen" is a bit disrespectful towards other people opinions don't you think? Hell then i might start commenting every pve perspective post saying "well, i really don't like this change cause that wouldn't be the playstyle that fits me in pvp, so i would really don't like it if it happened" or something like that. Who am i to give myself so much importance, who am i representing? "I must say it's a bit disappointing i have to explain that". Ah and for your information, just in case you've been living under a rock, pve is always been the main focus of this game for a long time: there are much more players doing pve content than pvp players, mathematical fact. You still don't get it? Sorry that's as far as i go, maybe one day you will

    Precisely: there are many more pve players than pvp ones. That's why the pve perspective is actually the more important one. But again, I'm not trying to actively shoehorn the class into a pve role. I'm only disagreeing with other people trying to shoehorn it into only a pvp one. See the difference?

    As for the matter of respect. Respect is earned. I never feel obliged to respect anyone, much less their opinions. People have the right to have their opinions and voice them. That's all the respect you can have for granted. Everything above that is a matter of what you put in that opinion. To phrase it simply, I have the same right to have an opinion on your opinion and voice it as I see fit. Freedom of speech works both ways.

  • VanWilder.6923VanWilder.6923 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    Precisely: there are many more pve players than pvp ones. That's why the pve perspective is actually the more important one. But again, I'm not trying to actively shoehorn the class into a pve role. I'm only disagreeing with other people trying to shoehorn it into only a pvp one. See the difference?

    As for the matter of respect. Respect is earned. I never feel obliged to respect anyone, much less their opinions. People have the right to have their opinions and voice them. That's all the respect you can have for granted. Everything above that is a matter of what you put in that opinion. To phrase it simply, I have the same right to have an opinion on your opinion and voice it as I see fit. Freedom of speech works both ways.

    I can not agree more. Very well said. Discusscion should be focused on the issues respectively among 3 modes and contruct the best solutions for each one. Tackle the problem, not the the person.

    Ps: English is not my native so I can not say it the right way I wanted.

  • Like all of you I am concerned with the elementalist. It is my main character after all. But I don't think changing some numbers can fix the actual problem. I don't think an entire change is the solution either. Let's first take a look at the class itself :

    • It works with 4 attunements, alternatively swapping one after the other. It is a design choice and, be it good or bad, is not my place to discuss it. The game designers made this choice and it probably will be too much difficult or time consuming to change that. It can also kitten off a lot of people who like the class mechanics as it is.
    • Aside from the 2 elite specializations, there are 5 specializations, one for each element plus the arcana specialization. Unlike the previous fact, we can discuss about this.
    • The elementalist use not only 4 elements but also cantrips, gyphs, signets, arcane spells and conjured weapons. Again it is a design choice to give the elementalist these tools. We can like it or not but it is unlikely to go away.

    So we can discuss the specializations and their synergies with the attunement swapping mechanics and the additionnal tools of cantrips, glyphs, etc.
    We can choose 2 of these specializations, the third one being the elite specialization if you choose to. So let's review what these are about :

    • Fire : It is about raw power, burning
    • Air : It is about critical strike and mobility
    • Water : It is about healing power and regeneration
    • Earth : It is about thoughness and condition damages
    • Arcane : Is is about bonus while swapping attunement

    As I said previously, the elementalist mechanics is about swapping attunement so Arcana is actually really well designed in that aspect if we look at the minor traits.

    The 4 elements specialization works differently.
    If we just look at the minor traits, the bonus are working only if you are in the element attunement or swapping to it. In a way, it make sense, but it's useless 3/4 of the time since you are in or swap to an other attunement. In an other way, it doesn't make sense that you can not imbue your magic with the element(s) in wich you are specialized.
    You are an earth elementalist and no, your fire meteor doesn't have a rock in it, stunning your foes.
    You are a fire elementalist and no, your healing rain is never hot and burn your foes while healing you.
    I can go on for a while like this so I will just keep these 2 exemples.

    About the major traits of these specializations, I'll just say some don't seems at their place.
    For exemple, the Conjurer trait in Fire trait line. It says "Gain a fire aura when an ally picks up a conjures weapon. Conjure weapons abilities have reduced recharge".What do conjure weapons have to do with fire ? There are 5 conjure weapons, only two use fire. I understand it is normal to have a trait about conjure weapons (or glyphs, etc) but why in fire (or air, etc) ? If you replace conjure weapons with "conjure flame axe" and "conjure fiery greatsword" then it is right where it should be, but you need to add the same kind of trait in the water line for the "conjure frost bow" skill (or the air hammer and earth shield).

    This is something i think should be changed : the way element specialization works and not affect just the element you are in, or change the element specializations for glyph magic, conjure magic, etc because this is what you will actuallyput in your skill bar. The second is probably much more difficult for the dev to do.

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

    @Manakel Angel.1047 said:
    Like all of you I am concerned with the elementalist. It is my main character after all. But I don't think changing some numbers can fix the actual problem. I don't think an entire change is the solution either. Let's first take a look at the class itself :

    • It works with 4 attunements, alternatively swapping one after the other. It is a design choice and, be it good or bad, is not my place to discuss it. The game designers made this choice and it probably will be too much difficult or time consuming to change that. It can also kitten off a lot of people who like the class mechanics as it is.
    • Aside from the 2 elite specializations, there are 5 specializations, one for each element plus the arcana specialization. Unlike the previous fact, we can discuss about this.
    • The elementalist use not only 4 elements but also cantrips, gyphs, signets, arcane spells and conjured weapons. Again it is a design choice to give the elementalist these tools. We can like it or not but it is unlikely to go away.

    So we can discuss the specializations and their synergies with the attunement swapping mechanics and the additionnal tools of cantrips, glyphs, etc.
    We can choose 2 of these specializations, the third one being the elite specialization if you choose to. So let's review what these are about :

    • Fire : It is about raw power, burning
    • Air : It is about critical strike and mobility
    • Water : It is about healing power and regeneration
    • Earth : It is about thoughness and condition damages
    • Arcane : Is is about bonus while swapping attunement

    As I said previously, the elementalist mechanics is about swapping attunement so Arcana is actually really well designed in that aspect if we look at the minor traits.

    The 4 elements specialization works differently.
    If we just look at the minor traits, the bonus are working only if you are in the element attunement or swapping to it. In a way, it make sense, but it's useless 3/4 of the time since you are in or swap to an other attunement. In an other way, it doesn't make sense that you can not imbue your magic with the element(s) in wich you are specialized.
    You are an earth elementalist and no, your fire meteor doesn't have a rock in it, stunning your foes.
    You are a fire elementalist and no, your healing rain is never hot and burn your foes while healing you.
    I can go on for a while like this so I will just keep these 2 exemples.

    About the major traits of these specializations, I'll just say some don't seems at their place.
    For exemple, the Conjurer trait in Fire trait line. It says "Gain a fire aura when an ally picks up a conjures weapon. Conjure weapons abilities have reduced recharge".What do conjure weapons have to do with fire ? There are 5 conjure weapons, only two use fire. I understand it is normal to have a trait about conjure weapons (or glyphs, etc) but why in fire (or air, etc) ? If you replace conjure weapons with "conjure flame axe" and "conjure fiery greatsword" then it is right where it should be, but you need to add the same kind of trait in the water line for the "conjure frost bow" skill (or the air hammer and earth shield).

    This is something i think should be changed : the way element specialization works and not affect just the element you are in, or change the element specializations for glyph magic, conjure magic, etc because this is what you will actuallyput in your skill bar. The second is probably much more difficult for the dev to do.

    Take this as constructive criticism: That was a lot of unnecessary information to get to such an uninspired and mundane suggestion. I think you should practice consolidating your messages into more digestible chunks so it doesn't become an effort-- filled with filler and extraneous information-- to understand your message. I'm sure there isn't a person on this thread who doesn't know how elementalist works.

  • Well, all arguments have to be put in context. I can hardly talk about the elementalist without talking about what it does.
    You say my suggestion is uninspired and mundane. If I put too much information, you don't put enough. Why ? Arguments ? Other suggestions ?
    I see none of that

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