Concerns about Elementalist - Page 8 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Concerns about Elementalist

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  • Staff at the very least needs some little tweaks that aren't necesserily damage boosts. Like some cooldown reductions and aftercast reductions (all over), projectile speed increases (mainly in air 1 and 3) and some reliability in its CC skills (like a daze within Static Field upon activation and a knockdown in the area of Unsteady Ground upon activation).

    Some conditions would be welcome too, keeping in mind still that Earth is supposed to be the "superior damage over time" attunement... but not forgetting that fire in general tends to burn :P

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    And yet you guys are here still discussing ......

    Well it's a forum that's what people do on forums. Also, hopefully the developers are reading and we might see some changes

  • that's true too that beside Gaile, we have'nt seen a dev post since far far long ago

  • Silence.3702Silence.3702 Member ✭✭✭

    Well I've been playing Memser on PvP untill Anet decides to make Weaver playable

    Cries in ele

  • the sheer amount of boon stripping, boon corruption, and untargeted AOE dmg in WVW has made D/D Ele completely unplayable.

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2018

    I think we need Arcane Fury back. It would really help to get some more fury from other places instead of having to rely on Raging Storm (crit). Having that trait back would definitely benefit staff weavers and those who use scepter.

    We actually have builds that can one shot people, but we are held back by our own lack of fury. The might gain is a nice idea, though it's not what we need. We can get that from multiple sources via sigils, runes and other places. Fury is the one thing DPS weavers need on demand right now since you've introduced the ferocity buff to Raging Storm.

    Maybe I'm talking rubbish, but it's worth changing it back to what it was and then having a look at the impact afterwards.

    Do the same for Lava Font. I'm still pissed off.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    I think we need Arcane Fury back. It would really help to get some more fury from other places instead of having to rely on Raging Storm (crit). Having that trait back would definitely benefit staff weavers and those who use scepter.

    We actually have builds that can one shot people, but we are held back by our own lack of fury. The might gain is a nice idea, though it's not what we need. We can get that from multiple sources via sigils, runes and other places. Fury is the one thing DPS weavers need on demand right now since you've introduced the ferocity buff to Raging Storm.

    Maybe I'm talking rubbish, but it's worth changing it back to what it was and then having a look at the impact afterwards.

    Do the same for Lava Font. I'm still pissed off.

    Dont bother, terrible balance team never ever actually admit to their mistakes and revert things.

    They do just in a weird way. Its a very randomly try something new balance and hope for the best the problem is the time in-between the balance is way too long for this to ever work.

    Added note no real response from devs. on these forms at all not looking good for this threat doing any thing...

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Kako.1930Kako.1930 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @LazySummer.2568 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    I think we need Arcane Fury back. It would really help to get some more fury from other places instead of having to rely on Raging Storm (crit). Having that trait back would definitely benefit staff weavers and those who use scepter.

    We actually have builds that can one shot people, but we are held back by our own lack of fury. The might gain is a nice idea, though it's not what we need. We can get that from multiple sources via sigils, runes and other places. Fury is the one thing DPS weavers need on demand right now since you've introduced the ferocity buff to Raging Storm.

    Maybe I'm talking rubbish, but it's worth changing it back to what it was and then having a look at the impact afterwards.

    Do the same for Lava Font. I'm still pissed off.

    Dont bother, terrible balance team never ever actually admit to their mistakes and revert things.

    They do just in a weird way. Its a very randomly try something new balance and hope for the best the problem is the time in-between the balance is way too long for this to ever work.

    Added note no real response from devs. on these forms at all not looking good for this threat doing any thing...

    It won't. This thread wasn't created to collect feedback. It's just so threads don't show up elsewhere... where people can actually see them.

  • Training as weaver could have added weapon swapping from the weapons usable to add versatility. [ I've played a PvE ele for 6 years.]

  • Okay I have to go half a step back the aura stuff is just so silly only the buff and the reenabling of fresh air built stay. I was just so busy with everything it took a while to notice what they did in full extend especially what they meant with the changes on the aura. I thought the whole time they made it so that the auras are always shared with the group from now on. No they made it so that you can convert it into an attack.(which you can only use with very special weapon combos) Just absolute silly.

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Dahir.4158 said:
    I think we need Arcane Fury back. It would really help to get some more fury from other places instead of having to rely on Raging Storm (crit). Having that trait back would definitely benefit staff weavers and those who use scepter.

    We actually have builds that can one shot people, but we are held back by our own lack of fury. The might gain is a nice idea, though it's not what we need. We can get that from multiple sources via sigils, runes and other places. Fury is the one thing DPS weavers need on demand right now since you've introduced the ferocity buff to Raging Storm.

    Maybe I'm talking rubbish, but it's worth changing it back to what it was and then having a look at the impact afterwards.

    Do the same for Lava Font. I'm still pissed off.

    Tbh ele has horrible might uptime compared to most of other classes. It heavily relies on spamming fire skills with fire GM trait (which is basically just wvw staff build) and might from blast finishers is both weak and limited to melee builds (ranged builds have fire fields on enemy, not on self). I dont see a reason why arcane minor trait cant provide both might and fury, since both boons are required to be a cannon on a naturally glassy class. Ele also needs boons that proc on certain skills under certain conditions, unrelated to traits. Skills like unload on thief p/p or unrelenting assault on rev sword, which give might on hit.

    Basically ele needs better uptimes on boons that isnnt swiftness. Ele needs boons that arent limited to single build/weapon and boons that dont require taking 3 specs and boon duration gear to be impactful.

    Yeah, I had the same idea after posting that. The trait should definitely have both boons.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I run zerker/fresh-air/auramancer. Went T4 fractals and it is a total blast. High damage, great sustain, great survivability: you keep your party buffed with auras, vigor, regen (you usually have like 40-50% damage reduction, rest of the party has protection/vigor almost 100% of the fights) and still dish out high numbers of damage. I love it. Together with a druid and a chrono you breeze through stuff like nothing else.

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the patch that didn't do anything for PvP and WvW. My concern is, "Will this lack of impact be duplicated in the next patch? Or will The Elementalist be nerfed again?"

  • I would love to see the elementals back in the game, i dont understand why necros can have their minions 100% of the time and summons then right away when they die and we have to have ours weaker, with a long cd and with a time limit.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I want to see real boons and effects that ele lacks added to the core ele. There a lot of them and there a lot of room to add them in. Its like there realty is no one working on ele as a class just effects like auras something that not an ele only thing.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arkaile.5604 said:
    It's not just the ability to survive, but there's a lack of utility overall. Even something as simple as having to cc means the ele's rotation and dps will be screwed for a few moments; an ele doesn't bring all that much outside of dps as far as PvE is concerned. The buffs to the air trait line helped ele remain relevant despite its shortcomings, but I'm almost certain there's some nerfs coming to "normalize" the class.

    Which is my point. Until ele is forced to the bottom of everything we wont see anything done, which is a shame. Ele was my favorite class in GW1 because of how it was done, here its saddly the opposite. I want to love ele, but the lack of knowledgeable developer attention i cannot.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • @Dante.1763 said:
    Ele was my favorite class in GW1 because of how it was done, here its saddly the opposite. I want to love ele, but the lack of knowledgeable developer attention i cannot.

    I never played Gw1. Can you elaborate how Ele was done there a bit for me?

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bramymond.7689 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Ele was my favorite class in GW1 because of how it was done, here its saddly the opposite. I want to love ele, but the lack of knowledgeable developer attention i cannot.

    I never played Gw1. Can you elaborate how Ele was done there a bit for me?

    Well first off you could choose which of the elements you wanted to use, or multiple. Fire, and Air where the heavy damages if i recall properly, earth was control, and water was both healing and damage, and yes you had multiple weapons not that that mattered much because skills werent locked to weapons and honestly not gonna lie, i wish that in GW2 you could just..choose one or two elements per weapon and have a secondary set with the same or alternate elements.

    The "arcane" trait line increased the amount of energy you had available so more high damage skills if you wanted.

    Fire skills applied burning it was far more effective in GW1 than our burning is on ele currently. I forget what the other ones did(I think earth would apply bleeding, Air would do some kind of weakness where it reduced either the maximum HP you had or the maximum energy you had available.) because i barely ran builds that werent fire, and Fire skills where overall high damaging, AOE skills(at least the good used ones for PVE.) unlike ours fire skills..which are AOEs, on long cooldowns..but do very little damage.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Chasind.3128Chasind.3128 Member ✭✭✭

    The problem with elementalist is it has no relevant boons or sustainable DPS in staff (anymore) scepter is okay, and Tempest Warhorn is still sad and needs a complete rework. To compete against a firebrand, a boon mesmer or anything than can give more than 5 boons and share them ele would have to be given better support.
    Elementalist Elites aren't anything to be excited about. The weaver elite is alright, better than Tornado by a long shot. Better than The aura mancer elite by alot more but it's a tossup between FGS and the weaver elite. I say this because the weaver elite is only decent with the slight buffs you get based on your attunements you swap to. FGS is a great escape with terrible DPS. All elementalist conjure weapons are terrible for the record.

    Ele needs relevant boons. Quickness from Air, Alacrity from traiting Arcane, Resistance from Earth and better stability. In ALL gamemodes.

    Another thing about ele is where is it supposed to stand against support classes? Where is it supposed to stand against DPS classes? Where is it supposed to stand in WvW? PvP? PvE? Raids?
    I want an honest answer to find out why it's a jack of all trades and mediocre at best. Sure, the sword dps is pretty nice but only in.....RAIDS! (And PvE when you are babysat.)
    Ele is superb atm for clearing some siege in WvW. That's it. 25 stacks of might and I can down a pug in low gear with Meteor Sprinkle.

    PvP, I can 1v1 most other classes and win but it's a struggle to get the boons I want and on the right attunements because I can't even enjoy myself since I'm trying not to die. You have to play Weaver to even be effective for your team if you are at all.

    Tempest support can seem invulnerable if you aren't DPS spec. A simple stun will easily take them down because they do not, I repeat, do not have the sustain a firebrand has or the support a chronomancer has. Tempest is like the WoW Shaman, it has beautiful animations and the AoE's seem like a bonus but it's so lacking. The warhorn is good if you are fighting an enemy that is standing still. It has no escape, it has no invul, it has no real utility other than to give boons that still are lacking.

    Staff in all gamemodes. - In PvP: if you are bringing this weapon into PvP at the current state, you are a troll and purposely throwing the game (even if you did not know that the dps on this weapon is lacking) You would think staff should bring the hurt, and it should. Ice Spike should be instant cast, not a 3 second cast then a slow drop.
    Meteor Shower should be instant cast and last longer, hit more than 5 targets and cause burning. (if you decide to never touch the dps on it again)
    If the dmg is increased, then leave it at 5 per target but still should be quicker cast and length of MS should stay the same.
    Lava Font- the damage should stack quicker and it needs a damage buff. The only use for it atm is to tag something because that's about all it can do.
    Earth is fine,
    Air - Lightning Surge, takes too long to cast. Speed it up. It should also qualify for a lightning strike on lightning rod. (I cant remember if it does or doesnt)

    Ele needs relevant boons, quicker animation cast times, allowed build diversity, warhorn needs a rework, and staff needs quicker cast times and a slight dmg buff to ice spike, meteor sprinkle., churning earth and Lightning Surge.

  • geez
    just logged on with my ele main after 3 yrs away.

    please did not break her?

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nanyetah Elohi.4852 said:
    geez
    just logged on with my ele main after 3 yrs away.

    please did not break her?

    Oh, its broken, horribly, and it didnt get touched with this patch, which i guess is better than the nerfs i thought we where gonna get.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Bramymond.7689 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Ele was my favorite class in GW1 because of how it was done, here its saddly the opposite. I want to love ele, but the lack of knowledgeable developer attention i cannot.

    I never played Gw1. Can you elaborate how Ele was done there a bit for me?

    Well first off you could choose which of the elements you wanted to use, or multiple. Fire, and Air where the heavy damages if i recall properly, earth was control, and water was both healing and damage, and yes you had multiple weapons not that that mattered much because skills werent locked to weapons and honestly not gonna lie, i wish that in GW2 you could just..choose one or two elements per weapon and have a secondary set with the same or alternate elements.

    The "arcane" trait line increased the amount of energy you had available so more high damage skills if you wanted.

    Fire skills applied burning it was far more effective in GW1 than our burning is on ele currently. I forget what the other ones did(I think earth would apply bleeding, Air would do some kind of weakness where it reduced either the maximum HP you had or the maximum energy you had available.) because i barely ran builds that werent fire, and Fire skills where overall high damaging, AOE skills(at least the good used ones for PVE.) unlike ours fire skills..which are AOEs, on long cooldowns..but do very little damage.

    Are you sure it's not mostly nostalgia speaking here?

    See what I mean:

    • We can currently choose which element to use - via the attunement mechanic.
    • Fire and Air are usually the damage elements across the different weapons. Dagger, Sword, Scepter both offer their best damage in these two elements. Staff is the sole exception, relying almost exclusively on Fire for damage.
    • Water is control/heal element across all weapons, with touch of damage here and there (e.g. Twin Strike, Ice Spike).
    • Earth offers a mix of control (blinds, knockbacks, immobilizes), and condi damage. There's the occasional direct damage as well, but it's more of an exception rather than a rule.
    • Unlike most condi builds, which apply a multitude of damaging conditions, Ele ones are heavily biased toward Burning. The only other build I can think of which is so burn-heavy is the Firebrand one.
    • Arcane line achieves a similar effect - reducing attunement cooldown means easier/faster access to your high-damage skills.

    It seems to me your description is surprisingly accurate for the GW2 implementation of the profession as well.

  • lakdav.3694lakdav.3694 Member ✭✭
    edited September 19, 2018

    Ehm, no. In GW1 the attunements were kinda like this:

    • Fire: Superior flat fire damage in varying sized areas, most skills applied Burning (massive health degeneration, not intensity stacking). Aside from Energy Management skills and the knockdowns on meteors, it had little to no utility.
    • Air: Very good damage on single targets, further enhanced by Armor Penetration, which ignored 25% of the victim's armor rating. Roughly translates to Critical chance and Ferocity in GW2, which is what we are moving towards as of last balance patch. Air had some utility in the form of blinding, weakness, a few knockdowns, and Cracked Armor condition that translates to 20 stacks of Vulnerability in GW2.
    • Earth: Reasonably good earth damage with varying sized areas. It was the defensive element with Wards (area effects that provide +armor against specific sources) and +Armor skills. Massive area control knockdowns, blinds, a few armor ignoring skills (Magnetic wave, Obsidian Flame), basic condition removal. Only bleed application I can recall is Stone Daggers. Some movement-impairing area skills.
    • Water: Weakest damage but most offensive long-lasting utility. Varying degrees of movement reduction on foes (from 50% up to 90%!!). Blurred Vision (a weaker version of Blind if you will), spell-casting denial in an area with Maelstrom. Specific armor skills working around the Burning condition. Water was hydromancy and cryomancy instead of aquamancy: It had no heals in GW1. (Oddly the best Ward spell was in Water instead of Earth though)

    The biggest difference between Ele in GW1 and GW2 is that you could put together a build in GW1 that couldn't touch an element other than what you specialized for even if you wanted. If you are a pyromancer and build up accordingly, you were completely locked out from the other 3 elements. And the system rewarded specializing heavily in two or maximum three attribute lines (basically the elements for the GW1 ele + energy storage, and Energy Storage was a must for the stronger spells).

    On the other hand GW1 had some spells that tried to bridge through the elements in ways we don't see in GW2 (where it would shine, ironically). Like Steam, a water spell putting blind on burning foes, or Stoning knocking down weakened foes (weakness primarily coming from Air), or Chilling Winds (air skill) that increased duration of water hexes. Traits that try to bridge through elements would be great in GW2. Just a few ideas with not a massive amount of consideration in them yet:
    Steam - Water trait line - Water weapon skills hitting burning foes apply Blind, (internal cooldown needed)
    Obsidian Flame - Earth trait line - Earth weapon skills infict 1 second burning on target or around caster.
    Hypothermic reaction - Fire and/or Water trait lines - Applying burning on chilled foes and applying chill on burning foes inflict damage.
    Icy Shackles - Water trait line - Applying immobilization inflicts chill.
    Conductivity - Air trait line - Air weapon skills hitting chilled foes hit nearby additional enemies with lightning strike (internal cooldown needed)

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What should be done is due to ele haveing less hp / def as a base class it should have higher power maybe the highest base power in the game. Right now hp / def are the only things that very from class to class a pure def so having the lowest means your starting with the only disavages with out have any benefit. Dmg effects on skill and dmg +% will be normalized in time to mach up but for some reason hp / def is not moving at all.

    So its normalized hp / def or give the lower def classes higher power then classes with high hp / def (or take away power from the high hp / def classes).

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Bramymond.7689 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Ele was my favorite class in GW1 because of how it was done, here its saddly the opposite. I want to love ele, but the lack of knowledgeable developer attention i cannot.

    I never played Gw1. Can you elaborate how Ele was done there a bit for me?

    Well first off you could choose which of the elements you wanted to use, or multiple. Fire, and Air where the heavy damages if i recall properly, earth was control, and water was both healing and damage, and yes you had multiple weapons not that that mattered much because skills werent locked to weapons and honestly not gonna lie, i wish that in GW2 you could just..choose one or two elements per weapon and have a secondary set with the same or alternate elements.

    The "arcane" trait line increased the amount of energy you had available so more high damage skills if you wanted.

    Fire skills applied burning it was far more effective in GW1 than our burning is on ele currently. I forget what the other ones did(I think earth would apply bleeding, Air would do some kind of weakness where it reduced either the maximum HP you had or the maximum energy you had available.) because i barely ran builds that werent fire, and Fire skills where overall high damaging, AOE skills(at least the good used ones for PVE.) unlike ours fire skills..which are AOEs, on long cooldowns..but do very little damage.

    Are you sure it's not mostly nostalgia speaking here?

    See what I mean:

    • We can currently choose which element to use - via the attunement mechanic.
    • Fire and Air are usually the damage elements across the different weapons. Dagger, Sword, Scepter both offer their best damage in these two elements. Staff is the sole exception, relying almost exclusively on Fire for damage.
    • Water is control/heal element across all weapons, with touch of damage here and there (e.g. Twin Strike, Ice Spike).
    • Earth offers a mix of control (blinds, knockbacks, immobilizes), and condi damage. There's the occasional direct damage as well, but it's more of an exception rather than a rule.
    • Unlike most condi builds, which apply a multitude of damaging conditions, Ele ones are heavily biased toward Burning. The only other build I can think of which is so burn-heavy is the Firebrand one.
    • Arcane line achieves a similar effect - reducing attunement cooldown means easier/faster access to your high-damage skills.

    It seems to me your description is surprisingly accurate for the GW2 implementation of the profession as well.

    No, its not, because ele was very well off for DPS in GW1 at any range, it was very well off for support at any range, and as i said, i would rather we could pick one or two elements per weapon and gain a weapon swap so i could have a melee weapon and a range weapon slotted without having to leave combat, the attunement system as a whole with how they implemented it, has failed in my opinion of what ele should be like. , BUT i could stand it if we actually gained something for our complex(overly so) rotations, at the moment that is not the case. Our rotations are the most complex out of all the classes and they require a ton of skill to pull off correctly to obtain that damage, one or two mistakes and you obliterate your DPS where as other professions have alot more lee way in what they can do and the mistakes they can make. I can do more damage with my ranger camping SB(Literally 2 skills) than i can with my ele if i mess up one attunement, and in my opinion that is not how it should be.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • I would have much preffered an elemental focus on the core class that could allow me to use skills and abilities specific to one or two elements. Having all 4 elements being part of the core design locks us into having all the damage, control, and defensive abilities on every build and essentially in order to balance that they have to water everything down because by default ele brings too much to the table without any choice in the matter. This takes away the ability to build a fire only nuke build because no matter what you're bring the utility and heals from earth and water, so the damage fire skills can do needs to be weakened. This ultimately makes it so you must run some type of jack of all trades build (avatar amulet for damage and healing) in order to be at your maximum potential.

    They should have made being able to weild all four elements an espec as opposed to the core class.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Bramymond.7689 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Ele was my favorite class in GW1 because of how it was done, here its saddly the opposite. I want to love ele, but the lack of knowledgeable developer attention i cannot.

    I never played Gw1. Can you elaborate how Ele was done there a bit for me?

    Well first off you could choose which of the elements you wanted to use, or multiple. Fire, and Air where the heavy damages if i recall properly, earth was control, and water was both healing and damage, and yes you had multiple weapons not that that mattered much because skills werent locked to weapons and honestly not gonna lie, i wish that in GW2 you could just..choose one or two elements per weapon and have a secondary set with the same or alternate elements.

    The "arcane" trait line increased the amount of energy you had available so more high damage skills if you wanted.

    Fire skills applied burning it was far more effective in GW1 than our burning is on ele currently. I forget what the other ones did(I think earth would apply bleeding, Air would do some kind of weakness where it reduced either the maximum HP you had or the maximum energy you had available.) because i barely ran builds that werent fire, and Fire skills where overall high damaging, AOE skills(at least the good used ones for PVE.) unlike ours fire skills..which are AOEs, on long cooldowns..but do very little damage.

    Are you sure it's not mostly nostalgia speaking here?

    See what I mean:

    • We can currently choose which element to use - via the attunement mechanic.
    • Fire and Air are usually the damage elements across the different weapons. Dagger, Sword, Scepter both offer their best damage in these two elements. Staff is the sole exception, relying almost exclusively on Fire for damage.
    • Water is control/heal element across all weapons, with touch of damage here and there (e.g. Twin Strike, Ice Spike).
    • Earth offers a mix of control (blinds, knockbacks, immobilizes), and condi damage. There's the occasional direct damage as well, but it's more of an exception rather than a rule.
    • Unlike most condi builds, which apply a multitude of damaging conditions, Ele ones are heavily biased toward Burning. The only other build I can think of which is so burn-heavy is the Firebrand one.
    • Arcane line achieves a similar effect - reducing attunement cooldown means easier/faster access to your high-damage skills.

    It seems to me your description is surprisingly accurate for the GW2 implementation of the profession as well.

    No, its not, because ele was very well off for DPS in GW1 at any range, it was very well off for support at any range, and as i said, i would rather we could pick one or two elements per weapon and gain a weapon swap so i could have a melee weapon and a range weapon slotted without having to leave combat, the attunement system as a whole with how they implemented it, has failed in my opinion of what ele should be like. , BUT i could stand it if we actually gained something for our complex(overly so) rotations, at the moment that is not the case. Our rotations are the most complex out of all the classes and they require a ton of skill to pull off correctly to obtain that damage, one or two mistakes and you obliterate your DPS where as other professions have alot more lee way in what they can do and the mistakes they can make. I can do more damage with my ranger camping SB(Literally 2 skills) than i can with my ele if i mess up one attunement, and in my opinion that is not how it should be.

    That's a balance issue now, not a mechanical design one. I agree ele needs to be more rewarding in terms of performance.

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Bramymond.7689 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Ele was my favorite class in GW1 because of how it was done, here its saddly the opposite. I want to love ele, but the lack of knowledgeable developer attention i cannot.

    I never played Gw1. Can you elaborate how Ele was done there a bit for me?

    Well first off you could choose which of the elements you wanted to use, or multiple. Fire, and Air where the heavy damages if i recall properly, earth was control, and water was both healing and damage, and yes you had multiple weapons not that that mattered much because skills werent locked to weapons and honestly not gonna lie, i wish that in GW2 you could just..choose one or two elements per weapon and have a secondary set with the same or alternate elements.

    The "arcane" trait line increased the amount of energy you had available so more high damage skills if you wanted.

    Fire skills applied burning it was far more effective in GW1 than our burning is on ele currently. I forget what the other ones did(I think earth would apply bleeding, Air would do some kind of weakness where it reduced either the maximum HP you had or the maximum energy you had available.) because i barely ran builds that werent fire, and Fire skills where overall high damaging, AOE skills(at least the good used ones for PVE.) unlike ours fire skills..which are AOEs, on long cooldowns..but do very little damage.

    Are you sure it's not mostly nostalgia speaking here?

    See what I mean:

    • We can currently choose which element to use - via the attunement mechanic.
    • Fire and Air are usually the damage elements across the different weapons. Dagger, Sword, Scepter both offer their best damage in these two elements. Staff is the sole exception, relying almost exclusively on Fire for damage.
    • Water is control/heal element across all weapons, with touch of damage here and there (e.g. Twin Strike, Ice Spike).
    • Earth offers a mix of control (blinds, knockbacks, immobilizes), and condi damage. There's the occasional direct damage as well, but it's more of an exception rather than a rule.
    • Unlike most condi builds, which apply a multitude of damaging conditions, Ele ones are heavily biased toward Burning. The only other build I can think of which is so burn-heavy is the Firebrand one.
    • Arcane line achieves a similar effect - reducing attunement cooldown means easier/faster access to your high-damage skills.

    It seems to me your description is surprisingly accurate for the GW2 implementation of the profession as well.

    No, its not, because ele was very well off for DPS in GW1 at any range, it was very well off for support at any range, and as i said, i would rather we could pick one or two elements per weapon and gain a weapon swap so i could have a melee weapon and a range weapon slotted without having to leave combat, the attunement system as a whole with how they implemented it, has failed in my opinion of what ele should be like. , BUT i could stand it if we actually gained something for our complex(overly so) rotations, at the moment that is not the case. Our rotations are the most complex out of all the classes and they require a ton of skill to pull off correctly to obtain that damage, one or two mistakes and you obliterate your DPS where as other professions have alot more lee way in what they can do and the mistakes they can make. I can do more damage with my ranger camping SB(Literally 2 skills) than i can with my ele if i mess up one attunement, and in my opinion that is not how it should be.

    That's a balance issue now, not a mechanical design one. I agree ele needs to be more rewarding in terms of performance.

    More rewarding?! have you tried at 14k 15k hp ele build in wvw yet? The level of risk you must put your self into to land viable dmg on part with scorge and rev is out right silly when you realized both scorge and the rev are far more tankly and more able to self support there dmg. Mostly dying to retal alone in wvw fights.

    When a rev can hit you for 6k but you can only hit them for 3k back (1 skills) there is something very wrong.

    Ele needs counter dmg mitigation badly hitting harder vs lower hp targets is not working at any level for counter dmg mitigation nor is vulnerability working and burning is not dealing with healing. Ele needs real counter def tools unblockables counter boons counter healing and real dmg buffs vs high armor classes (not higher dmg but blunt conter to high armor).

    Listen to this guy. He's talking sense.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • ele core not viable vs the instant burst or condi of POF. Weaver spams small packets of damage with telegraphic attack. You will have a hard time standing toe to toe with Mirage hybrid, holo hybrid with condi, deadeye hybrid range spammer and reaper. Since chill will really mess you up and if you sacrifice barrier trait line. Either way you die. If ele is not seen in any of the top 3 tiers META, Great and Very Good. You class is not viable to play in wvw or spvp. You clear can only rely on player skill vs enemy skill. Weaver is a flat recovery bot but that can only go so long. Fancy looking low damage telegraphic moves are super effective. If I have to hit some one 9-16 times in 3-4 seconds to equal 2-3 hits from a Path of fire meta profession attack I lose. Over a time I will lose. And I main weaver so that means I have to do rotations maybe 1.5-2.5 hours per night in wvw that's a lot of rotations to yield low results. Don't even get me started on the results. Could we have more damage on our number 2 skills please or have our base sword range increased.

    Sword Weavers are decent 1v1 vs non POF metas in wvw. Sadly sword still has low packet damage, very small range and is easy to read. Good luck catching holo, mirage, or firebrand if fleeing from battle. You will never catch the others. And chill from Reapers gibs you so hard.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Bramymond.7689 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Ele was my favorite class in GW1 because of how it was done, here its saddly the opposite. I want to love ele, but the lack of knowledgeable developer attention i cannot.

    I never played Gw1. Can you elaborate how Ele was done there a bit for me?

    Well first off you could choose which of the elements you wanted to use, or multiple. Fire, and Air where the heavy damages if i recall properly, earth was control, and water was both healing and damage, and yes you had multiple weapons not that that mattered much because skills werent locked to weapons and honestly not gonna lie, i wish that in GW2 you could just..choose one or two elements per weapon and have a secondary set with the same or alternate elements.

    The "arcane" trait line increased the amount of energy you had available so more high damage skills if you wanted.

    Fire skills applied burning it was far more effective in GW1 than our burning is on ele currently. I forget what the other ones did(I think earth would apply bleeding, Air would do some kind of weakness where it reduced either the maximum HP you had or the maximum energy you had available.) because i barely ran builds that werent fire, and Fire skills where overall high damaging, AOE skills(at least the good used ones for PVE.) unlike ours fire skills..which are AOEs, on long cooldowns..but do very little damage.

    Are you sure it's not mostly nostalgia speaking here?

    See what I mean:

    • We can currently choose which element to use - via the attunement mechanic.
    • Fire and Air are usually the damage elements across the different weapons. Dagger, Sword, Scepter both offer their best damage in these two elements. Staff is the sole exception, relying almost exclusively on Fire for damage.
    • Water is control/heal element across all weapons, with touch of damage here and there (e.g. Twin Strike, Ice Spike).
    • Earth offers a mix of control (blinds, knockbacks, immobilizes), and condi damage. There's the occasional direct damage as well, but it's more of an exception rather than a rule.
    • Unlike most condi builds, which apply a multitude of damaging conditions, Ele ones are heavily biased toward Burning. The only other build I can think of which is so burn-heavy is the Firebrand one.
    • Arcane line achieves a similar effect - reducing attunement cooldown means easier/faster access to your high-damage skills.

    It seems to me your description is surprisingly accurate for the GW2 implementation of the profession as well.

    No, its not, because ele was very well off for DPS in GW1 at any range, it was very well off for support at any range, and as i said, i would rather we could pick one or two elements per weapon and gain a weapon swap so i could have a melee weapon and a range weapon slotted without having to leave combat, the attunement system as a whole with how they implemented it, has failed in my opinion of what ele should be like. , BUT i could stand it if we actually gained something for our complex(overly so) rotations, at the moment that is not the case. Our rotations are the most complex out of all the classes and they require a ton of skill to pull off correctly to obtain that damage, one or two mistakes and you obliterate your DPS where as other professions have alot more lee way in what they can do and the mistakes they can make. I can do more damage with my ranger camping SB(Literally 2 skills) than i can with my ele if i mess up one attunement, and in my opinion that is not how it should be.

    That's a balance issue now, not a mechanical design one. I agree ele needs to be more rewarding in terms of performance.

    More rewarding?! have you tried at 14k 15k hp ele build in wvw yet? The level of risk you must put your self into to land viable dmg on part with scorge and rev is out right silly when you realized both scorge and the rev are far more tankly and more able to self support there dmg. Mostly dying to retal alone in wvw fights.

    When a rev can hit you for 6k but you can only hit them for 3k back (1 skills) there is something very wrong.

    Ele needs counter dmg mitigation badly hitting harder vs lower hp targets is not working at any level for counter dmg mitigation nor is vulnerability working and burning is not dealing with healing. Ele needs real counter def tools unblockables counter boons counter healing and real dmg buffs vs high armor classes (not higher dmg but blunt conter to high armor).

    So basically what I just said - there need to be advantages to balance out the disadvantages of taking an ele. It is commonly referred as risk/reward balance, hence the use of "rewarding".

  • @Jski.6180 said:

    More rewarding?! have you tried at 14k 15k hp ele build in wvw yet? The level of risk you must put your self into to land viable dmg on part with scorge and rev is out right silly when you realized both scorge and the rev are far more tankly and more able to self support there dmg. Mostly dying to retal alone in wvw fights.

    When a rev can hit you for 6k but you can only hit them for 3k back (1 skills) there is something very wrong.

    Ele needs counter dmg mitigation badly hitting harder vs lower hp targets is not working at any level for counter dmg mitigation nor is vulnerability working and burning is not dealing with healing. Ele needs real counter def tools unblockables counter boons counter healing and real dmg buffs vs high armor classes (not higher dmg but blunt conter to high armor).

    not only that but revs and necros are able to move while casting all their skills and hitting more targets with their cancer. Why are necros given all the tools to do damage and still have good sustain with barriers and eles are given nothing for self sustain?

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2018

    WvW staff elementalist used to be high risk/high reward, and I was fine with that, but now the reward for putting ourselves in massive danger amounts to nothing. We get low damage from nerfed skills which shouldn't have been touched and next to nothing to compensate for that. Sure, the ferocity buffs were nice, but an added 10% on Lava Font ain't gotta cut it, mate. Not after shaving off 40% before. Let's not talk about Meteor Shower either.

    It's coming to that time where we should just give up on the class altogether, but those of us who have put countless hours into it, myself included, will play it regardless, because we can't let go of what was once a great class that has turned to (insert your choice of word here which isn't kitten) because of stupid changes done to benefit the carebears in PvE.

    cue sad music

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Bramymond.7689 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:
    Ele was my favorite class in GW1 because of how it was done, here its saddly the opposite. I want to love ele, but the lack of knowledgeable developer attention i cannot.

    I never played Gw1. Can you elaborate how Ele was done there a bit for me?

    Well first off you could choose which of the elements you wanted to use, or multiple. Fire, and Air where the heavy damages if i recall properly, earth was control, and water was both healing and damage, and yes you had multiple weapons not that that mattered much because skills werent locked to weapons and honestly not gonna lie, i wish that in GW2 you could just..choose one or two elements per weapon and have a secondary set with the same or alternate elements.

    The "arcane" trait line increased the amount of energy you had available so more high damage skills if you wanted.

    Fire skills applied burning it was far more effective in GW1 than our burning is on ele currently. I forget what the other ones did(I think earth would apply bleeding, Air would do some kind of weakness where it reduced either the maximum HP you had or the maximum energy you had available.) because i barely ran builds that werent fire, and Fire skills where overall high damaging, AOE skills(at least the good used ones for PVE.) unlike ours fire skills..which are AOEs, on long cooldowns..but do very little damage.

    Are you sure it's not mostly nostalgia speaking here?

    See what I mean:

    • We can currently choose which element to use - via the attunement mechanic.
    • Fire and Air are usually the damage elements across the different weapons. Dagger, Sword, Scepter both offer their best damage in these two elements. Staff is the sole exception, relying almost exclusively on Fire for damage.
    • Water is control/heal element across all weapons, with touch of damage here and there (e.g. Twin Strike, Ice Spike).
    • Earth offers a mix of control (blinds, knockbacks, immobilizes), and condi damage. There's the occasional direct damage as well, but it's more of an exception rather than a rule.
    • Unlike most condi builds, which apply a multitude of damaging conditions, Ele ones are heavily biased toward Burning. The only other build I can think of which is so burn-heavy is the Firebrand one.
    • Arcane line achieves a similar effect - reducing attunement cooldown means easier/faster access to your high-damage skills.

    It seems to me your description is surprisingly accurate for the GW2 implementation of the profession as well.

    No, its not, because ele was very well off for DPS in GW1 at any range, it was very well off for support at any range, and as i said, i would rather we could pick one or two elements per weapon and gain a weapon swap so i could have a melee weapon and a range weapon slotted without having to leave combat, the attunement system as a whole with how they implemented it, has failed in my opinion of what ele should be like. , BUT i could stand it if we actually gained something for our complex(overly so) rotations, at the moment that is not the case. Our rotations are the most complex out of all the classes and they require a ton of skill to pull off correctly to obtain that damage, one or two mistakes and you obliterate your DPS where as other professions have alot more lee way in what they can do and the mistakes they can make. I can do more damage with my ranger camping SB(Literally 2 skills) than i can with my ele if i mess up one attunement, and in my opinion that is not how it should be.

    That's a balance issue now, not a mechanical design one. I agree ele needs to be more rewarding in terms of performance.

    More rewarding?! have you tried at 14k 15k hp ele build in wvw yet? The level of risk you must put your self into to land viable dmg on part with scorge and rev is out right silly when you realized both scorge and the rev are far more tankly and more able to self support there dmg. Mostly dying to retal alone in wvw fights.

    When a rev can hit you for 6k but you can only hit them for 3k back (1 skills) there is something very wrong.

    Ele needs counter dmg mitigation badly hitting harder vs lower hp targets is not working at any level for counter dmg mitigation nor is vulnerability working and burning is not dealing with healing. Ele needs real counter def tools unblockables counter boons counter healing and real dmg buffs vs high armor classes (not higher dmg but blunt conter to high armor).

    So basically what I just said - there need to be advantages to balance out the disadvantages of taking an ele. It is commonly referred as risk/reward balance, hence the use of "rewarding".

    Ya i went too hard and started to rant sorry.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd like to know Anet's ele mains concerns, because so far everyone here seem to agree on the same issues.

  • I would like to mention ele favourite weapon: Staff. Why follow the strict rule, that each skill has to be 1200 range? How about giving it a more variability. For example, who ever uses earth skill 1 ? Make it a melee cleave skill. Or the whole attunened elements can differ in usage: some can be long range (like fire and air), some mid range (water) and close range (earth). This example is just an idea, it can be any other way. But the point is, to give ele some options in adapting to actual situation. This goes for all game types. Almost no one playing ele in pvp is using staff. Getting into close range fight in WvW while wielding staff is a death sentece. Conjured weapons are not helping either. Making conjured weapons swappable, the same way like engineer has, might help a bit. But it would require some rework as well. Who ever used Conjured Flame Axe or Conjured Earth Shield? Totaly useless. I hope the conjured weapons doesn't count as a actual "weapons" that ele has access to and thus prevent ele from getting them in future expansions.

  • I agree that ele risk vs reward needs to be looked at but ele does have a really high sustain potential unfortunately that potential is locked behind barriers that if you cross those your damage is going to take a huge hit just taking water over fire or air is a very large damage reduction. What could they do to make this better without making ele op? I could give lots of suggestions about what would be really nice for ele and help in many areas like conjures lower lighting flash cd and such but what else?

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Legendofzelda.1278 said:
    I agree that ele risk vs reward needs to be looked at but ele does have a really high sustain potential unfortunately that potential is locked behind barriers that if you cross those your damage is going to take a huge hit just taking water over fire or air is a very large damage reduction. What could they do to make this better without making ele op? I could give lots of suggestions about what would be really nice for ele and help in many areas like conjures lower lighting flash cd and such but what else?

    Most ppl ideal is to simply give ele more dmg or harder to deal with dmg (i am more for harder to deal with dmg then more max dmg my self) nothing to do with giving them better staying power.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Senji.2048 said:
    I would like to mention ele favourite weapon: Staff. Why follow the strict rule, that each skill has to be 1200 range? How about giving it a more variability. For example, who ever uses earth skill 1 ? Make it a melee cleave skill. Or the whole attunened elements can differ in usage: some can be long range (like fire and air), some mid range (water) and close range (earth). This example is just an idea, it can be any other way. But the point is, to give ele some options in adapting to actual situation. This goes for all game types. Almost no one playing ele in pvp is using staff. Getting into close range fight in WvW while wielding staff is a death sentece. Conjured weapons are not helping either. Making conjured weapons swappable, the same way like engineer has, might help a bit. But it would require some rework as well. Who ever used Conjured Flame Axe or Conjured Earth Shield? Totaly useless. I hope the conjured weapons doesn't count as a actual "weapons" that ele has access to and thus prevent ele from getting them in future expansions.

    This really feels like a bit of a non-issue to me and, in my opinion, these sorts of suggestions over-complicate the class and would limit staff as a weapon. The weaponset you're looking for was mainhand dagger/x which has been resurrected as holosmith. As you mentioned, staff is already fairly well spread-out in a mixture of AOE damage, crowd control and utility. It used to be workable because you had a lot more damage to pressure people with but besides occasionally roaming with it, even I'd admit it's not meant to be used for melee. Besides, what's the difference between casting it at your feet (within 300 range) and actually lowering the range to <600 range? I agree with you about perhaps reworking earth auto into a cleave skill but this can be done without lowering the range à la revenant hammer auto.

    @Legendofzelda.1278 said:
    I agree that ele risk vs reward needs to be looked at but ele does have a really high sustain potential unfortunately that potential is locked behind barriers that if you cross those your damage is going to take a huge hit just taking water over fire or air is a very large damage reduction. What could they do to make this better without making ele op? I could give lots of suggestions about what would be really nice for ele and help in many areas like conjures lower lighting flash cd and such but what else?

    I don't mind that there's a compromise; in fact, I think it should be extended across all classes. I'd rather have more damage than be mediocre at everything because you can be fairly certain that, while the devs are fine with where holosmith is at the moment, they're unlikely to buff d/d ele to those sorts of levels.

  • Most POF metas have zero healing but equal an ele with 600+ healing power. The are not using 50% cele at all or healing stats their just that strong.

    Sword Weavers are decent 1v1 vs non POF metas in wvw. Sadly sword still has low packet damage, very small range and is easy to read. Good luck catching holo, mirage, or firebrand if fleeing from battle. You will never catch the others. And chill from Reapers gibs you so hard.

  • Nepster.4275Nepster.4275 Member ✭✭✭

    Nice to see that people are still trying, shame that only blind eyes see this

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nepster.4275 said:
    Nice to see that people are still trying, shame that only blind eyes see this

    Im secretly praying to whatever god actually exists that they are working on something and simply not saying anything so that my faith in ANET and this class can be restored.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Arkaile.5604Arkaile.5604 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763
    Pray for immortality while you're at it. That's the only way you'll live long enough to see results.

    SHINIES!

  • Fresh Air builds sucks. My hands can't hit buttons fast enough to play Ele effectively. I could never play Weaver.

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