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i will never understand the balancing team


DragonFury.6243

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i dont understand the followingSuffer! VS Shake It OffShout VS Shout1 to 5 condi cleans VS 6 condi cleanstransfer condi to enemy VS cure condi from nearby allieschill enemy (soft cc ) VS Breaks StunRadius 600 VS Radius 600traitsReduces recharge. siphon health and gain additional recharge reduction for each foe they hit VS Shouts heal allies and grant adrenaline. Shouts recharge fasterbleed and 3 Vulnerability on chill VS Gain toughness and health when you break out of a stun

but they buff Shake It Off and it have ammunition max 2 !!!!!!!!!!

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@"Lahmia.2193" said:Key part you may have missed here. "Shake it off" cures 6 conditions in wvw/pvp but has a 50 second ammo cooldown, 2.5 times the cooldown of "Suffer!". In pve it has the lower 25s cooldown but cures 3 conditions.

They key part is that what warrior has is completely irrelevant to what Necro has. These class comparisons are meaningless.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Lahmia.2193" said:Key part you may have missed here. "Shake it off" cures 6 conditions in wvw/pvp but has a 50 second ammo cooldown, 2.5 times the cooldown of "Suffer!". In pve it has the lower 25s cooldown but cures 3 conditions.

They key part is that what warrior has is completely irrelevant to what Necro has. These class comparisons are meaningless.

I mean even if you were wrong and he were right, he did miss that out.

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:I'd say that the very difference is that anet still see transfer condition as a dps buff and the "suffer!" naturally deal damage. You are comparing an heavily defensive/support skill to a very selfish offensive skill. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

"suffer!" used to be a good dps skill when reaper was Condi when traited give 3 bleed + condi transfer but now when reaper is pushed to be a power elite it's just a bad condi cleanse skill 0 offense.TBH they should have reworked it when they changed reaper into power elite .

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@"Lahmia.2193" said:Key part you may have missed here. "Shake it off" cures 6 conditions in wvw/pvp but has a 50 second ammo cooldown, 2.5 times the cooldown of "Suffer!". In pve it has the lower 25s cooldown but cures 3 conditions.

Before they buffed "Shake it off" it was 3 condi cleanse with 25 sec cooldown but now it's 6 condi cleanse with 50 sec cooldown and 2 ammo so it's basically they doubled it's effect .And having instant cast 6 condi cleanse in PvP now is very valuable compared to max 5 condi cleanse when you are surrounded by 5 enemies .

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@"Obtena.7952" said:They key part is that what warrior has is completely irrelevant to what Necro has. These class comparisons are meaningless.

I want to know the reasoning behind buffing warrior condi cleanse shout ( considering warrior has decent access to resistance from multiple source's ) and not buffing "suffer!" which is now useless on a power elite .Clearly "suffer!" needed the change .I am questioning the balance team priority .

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@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:I'd say that the very difference is that anet still see transfer condition as a dps buff and the
"suffer!"
naturally deal damage. You are comparing an heavily defensive/support skill to a very selfish offensive skill. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

"suffer!" used to be a good dps skill when reaper was Condi when traited give 3 bleed + condi transfer but now when reaper is pushed to be a power elite it's just a bad condi cleanse skill 0 offense.TBH they should have reworked it when they changed reaper into power elite .

Reaper isn't a "power elite".

@DragonFury.6243 said:I want to know the reasoning behind buffing warrior condi cleanse shout ( considering warrior has decent access to resistance from multiple source's ) and not buffing "suffer!" which is now useless on a power elite .Clearly "suffer!" needed the change .I am questioning the balance team priority .

WvW and PvP were overflowing with massive amount of conditions (mainly due to scourge) and anet needed to push up some cleanse onto that it was obvious that they would favor working on an altruist support skill instead of a selfish skill. That's where their priority is and has always been: answering the issue, not fixing the root of the issues.

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:Reaper isn't a "power elite".

then what is "reaper"please even in pve condi reaper is dead after the Epidemic nerf

WvW and PvP were overflowing with massive amount of conditions (mainly due to scourge) and anet needed to push up some cleanse onto that it was obvious that they would favor working on an altruist support skill instead of a selfish skill. That's where their priority is and has always been: answering the issue, not fixing the root of the issues.

and reaper doesn't suffer from overflowing, massive amount of conditions (mainly due to scourge witch is the mirror for reaper in pvp)

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@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Reaper isn't a "power elite".

then what is "reaper"please even in pve condi reaper is dead after the Epidemic nerf

A melee brawler spec much like dd and holo, only worse in comparison. Of the two, the former has had a condi spec despite it being a "power elite" and the later has gained one recently, and I've yet to find people bemoaning it to the same extent that some people here complain about condi reaper.

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@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:They key part is that what warrior has is completely irrelevant to what Necro has. These class comparisons are meaningless.

I want to know the reasoning behind buffing warrior condi cleanse shout ( considering warrior has decent access to resistance from multiple source's ) and not buffing "suffer!" which is now useless on a power elite .Clearly "suffer!" needed the change .I am questioning the balance team priority .

There isn't one ... that's why it doesn't make sense to make the comparisons. They don't have any relationship. Things that are changed (or not) on classes are done independently of other class skills. I don't even know why anyone would make these comparisons. They aren't relevant to begin with.

I don't see what is so 'clear' about Suffer needing to be changed. It works well as it is, even better when traited with Augery. You have been provided very reasonable explanations for the changes to Suffer. I don't get why you argue with people if you are starting the thread with the fact that you don't understand to begin with.

I don't even understand where 'power elite' label comes from. Anet certainly doesn't designate elites this way and I've seen my share of reaper condi builds that work really good as well. Seems to me that's a made up term to justify how you think Suffer should work; it's contrived point.

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@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Reaper isn't a "power elite".

then what is "reaper"please even in pve condi reaper is dead after the Epidemic nerf

Reaper have as much value for condi build than he got for power build. If you look objectively at the reaper, you'd see that every trait can be as valuable for condi build than they can be valuable for power builds. Like Sephylon said, the reaper is more a brawler, a melee cleave spec that the necromancer badly needed in the vanilla game. Ultimately an e-spec shouldn't restrict you in your build but expand what you can do in every possible way and reaper do that for the necromancer.

WvW and PvP were overflowing with massive amount of conditions (mainly due to scourge) and anet needed to push up some cleanse onto that it was obvious that they would favor working on an altruist support skill instead of a selfish skill. That's where their priority is and has always been: answering the issue, not fixing the root of the issues.

and reaper doesn't suffer from overflowing, massive amount of conditions (mainly due to scourge witch is the mirror for reaper in pvp)

ANet balance the whole picture not just what individual players care for. Granted that necromancer are already seen as very resilient to conditions, ANet focus more on helping other professions against conditions.

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@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:I'd say that the very difference is that anet still see transfer condition as a dps buff and the
"suffer!"
naturally deal damage. You are comparing an heavily defensive/support skill to a very selfish offensive skill. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

"suffer!" used to be a good dps skill when reaper was Condi when traited give 3 bleed + condi transfer but now when reaper is pushed to be a power elite it's just a bad condi cleanse skill 0 offense.TBH they should have reworked it when they changed reaper into power elite .

If only people still didn't play necros besides reaper. The fact is there are core necros who aren't reapers and scourges still exist as well, and a lot of people play them as condi scourges. What you're saying is that two specific skills can't compare for one build of one elite spec. That's why you don't understand balancing. Because you picking out details instead of looking at the game from the top down, which you have to do when actually balancing.

I'm not saying the balancing team always gets stuff right. But I am saying this example is pretty much meaningless as an example of them getting something wrong. You can't pick out one skill from a bevy of skills and then claim the game isn't balanced.

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@"Vayne.8563" said:If only people still didn't play necros besides reaper. The fact is there are core necros who aren't reapers and scourges still exist as well, and a lot of people play them as condi scourges. What you're saying is that two specific skills can't compare for one build of one elite spec. That's why you don't understand balancing. Because you picking out details instead of looking at the game from the top down, which you have to do when actually balancing.

I'm not saying the balancing team always gets stuff right. But I am saying this example is pretty much meaningless as an example of them getting something wrong. You can't pick out one skill from a bevy of skills and then claim the game isn't balanced.

I would love to see that core and scourges build that use "Suffer!".READhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Suffer!%22Is a reaper skill

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@Dadnir.5038 said:Reaper have as much value for condi build than he got for power build. If you look objectively at the reaper, you'd see that every trait can be as valuable for condi build than they can be valuable for power builds. Like Sephylon said, the reaper is more a brawler, a melee cleave spec that the necromancer badly needed in the vanilla game. Ultimately an e-spec shouldn't restrict you in your build but expand what you can do in every possible way and reaper do that for the necromancer.

That will be true if the didn't nerf Deathly Chill and finisher and poison duration on Soul Spiral which was the main dmg sources for Condi reaper .Now condi reaper won't get you out of silver in PvP and pve power reaper is easier and give more dmg .

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@Obtena.7952 said:I don't even understand where 'power elite' label comes from. Anet certainly doesn't designate elites this way and I've seen my share of reaper condi builds that work really good as well. Seems to me that's a made up term to justify how you think Suffer should work; it's contrived point.

in 2017-11-07 balance patch they heavily nerfed condi reaper dmg sources and buffed power dmg pushing the elite into power

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@"Rhyse.8179" said:My theory is that Anet is run by committee. It explains why it takes them so long to do anything, why they are so inconsistent and often contradict themselves, and why balance changes are so pitiful and unfocused - because nobody can decide on what to do.Sure feels like it... Honestly i don't know how they do it, but we've been past the point that they should have rotated new blood into that team a long, long time ago.The standard for balance in GW2 is pathetic, and is one of the main reasons why i barely play gw2 at all, and haven't touched pvp since PoF, and before that i only really played season 3 and 4. Seasons 1 and two were destroyed by the unkillable chrono and tempest metas, it was pathetic, and it was kinda humiliating to see people outside the community mocking the state of the balance.Season 3 and 4 were alright, then they removed teams, which given that i'd spent the previous two seasons convincing my guild mates to play ranked teams for the guild trophies, having that removed and seeing a lot of my friends quit the game, was disheartening. I went in again, in whichever season PoF released in the middle of, to finish my legendary achievements (i had quit with 3 left to do), i finished those, had some fun trying out scourge, spellbreaker and soulbeast. Was kinda disapointed that Firebrand wasn't as good as i had hoped to revive my old mediburn build, and then, they broke scourge in PvE because people couldn't be bothered to take a deadeye or a ranger to counter scourges. And i've never went back since.

Been playing League of Legends for my pvp fix, at least there i get a balance patch every 2 weeks with the same or more changes than GW2 provides every 2-3 months, they're incredibly well explained and justified, and usually when they mess up its quick to be resolved. In GW2 you spend 3 months with a broken meta, dreading what will they break next and spend 3 months not fixing. Because apparently in a game with a new "season" every 3 months one balance patch per season is enough.It's so ridiculous it would be funny if it wasn't so sad, and completely sabotaging the game.

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@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't even understand where 'power elite' label comes from. Anet certainly doesn't designate elites this way and I've seen my share of reaper condi builds that work really good as well. Seems to me that's a made up term to justify how you think Suffer should work; it's contrived point.

in 2017-11-07 balance patch they heavily nerfed condi reaper dmg sources and buffed power dmg pushing the elite into power

Yes they did, but that doesn't change the fact that Reaper isn't a 'power elite'. It's a label people invent to twist arguments in their favour. Certainly, no decision or changes should be made that push reaper further into such a focused theme.

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@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Reaper have as much value for condi build than he got for power build. If you look objectively at the reaper, you'd see that every trait can be as valuable for condi build than they can be valuable for power builds. Like Sephylon said, the reaper is more a brawler, a melee cleave spec that the necromancer badly needed in the vanilla game. Ultimately an e-spec shouldn't restrict you in your build but expand what you can do in every possible way and reaper do that for the necromancer.

That will be true if the didn't nerf Deathly Chill and finisher and poison duration on Soul Spiral which was the main dmg sources for Condi reaper .Now condi reaper won't get you out of silver in PvP and pve power reaper is easier and give more dmg .

Even with this nerf, condi reaper's potential dps is close to power reaper's potential dps. Not great, yes, but no dps build on necromancer can be qualified as "great" anyway. PvE condi reaper should still hoover around 28/29k dps, You can still benefit from core survivability/sustain linked to conditions on reapers (you know? the infamous unkillable PvE reaper minion master.)

As for PvP, if you count on a build to get you out on a specific rank list, then you are doing it wrong. PvP tiers are less about build than personnal skill. Most of the time, a good player with an unexpected build can go far higher than an average player with a "meta build".

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:As for PvP, if you count on a build to get you out on a specific rank list, then you are doing it wrong. PvP tiers are less about build than personnal skill. Most of the time, a good player with an unexpected build can go far higher than an average player with a "meta build".

that why i see so many core necro in plat

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:I'd say that the very difference is that anet still see transfer condition as a dps buff and the "suffer!" naturally deal damage. You are comparing an heavily defensive/support skill to a very selfish offensive skill. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

But the problem is: they destroyed literally every Condi reaper build in wvw. So most of the times you don't have any condition dmg. Then you transfer the condition from you to a target, that gets one stack of bleed. Super big dmg coming in on them - not. It adds like maybe 50dps against that target

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:I'd say that the very difference is that anet still see transfer condition as a dps buff and the
"suffer!"
naturally deal damage. You are comparing an heavily defensive/support skill to a very selfish offensive skill. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

But the problem is: they destroyed literally every Condi reaper build in wvw. So most of the times you don't have any condition dmg. Then you transfer the condition from you to a target, that gets one stack of bleed. Super big dmg coming in on them - not. It adds like maybe 50dps against that target

that is a great Problem since years, that so many necro mechanics are build around condi and more or less useless with power. its not just condi Transfer, which is a high Risk /high reward mechanic on condi builds but a high Risk/Zero reward mechanic on power due to the fact that the transferred condis tick with your own condi dmg Attribute, it is also booncorrupt that create conditions that are also mostly useless if you Play power.

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