[SUGGESTION] Improve reward system in WvW

It is the least rewarding mode in GW2, even PVP, which doesn't need gold/gear at all is more rewarding than WvW.How about a reward system that stimulates players to do what WvW is meant for.

1. Repairing should give currency.
2. Attacking and defending should give currency to each interval.
3. Being in a squad with more than X people should give currency each interval (5 mins this time). Will you just stay in a squad not doing anything? Gl finding a commander which won't kick you!
4. Any form of spending resources (not only repairing) should give currency, make it 1 copper per hammer swing if you want.
5. Taking a keep/sm/mine should also give currency.

I can't really decide how much should be earned by each of these "acts" but they should be rewarded at least a similar level as we get gold from PVP.I know earlier we had to spend gold for the keeps and only same people were doing it every time and the things were improved little. But this is not enough.None of the modes should feel less rewarding than the others, considering they offer different gameplay and mechanics and some of us love to do WvW more than PvP or PvE.We still play the other modes but we enjoy WvW the most. Don't we deserve a little more rewarding experience?

These changes will bring WvW in a better light and many PIP farmers will start joining squads. I bet that the WvW player base will expand also.

1: Farming.2: Again AFK farming defense events.3: Own dedicated AFK commanders/squads, farming.4: Which results in players throwing rams everywhere and building them, farming.5: Encourage Karma-Train/Monoblob

Rewards in WvW are so much better than what they used to be, you actually gain resources rather than expend them nowadays. It is in a much better spot than it has ever been regarding rewards. That said, not saying it can't be improved upon, but the way in which you improve upon it can be very touchy, since it's so easy to break a system like WvW and fall into pure farming.

There is also the very touchy area that "rewards defines behavior", so rewarding wrong things rewards wrong behavior, and that people will always take the path of least resistance. This is even more important in WvW as a multiplayer modus where the other players are the content. So any kind of rewards needs to reward behavior that is beneficial to everyone and not just farmable or trollable (technically pip farmers right now).

That, and there is also the point that gameplay itself is also a reward. As well as we've seen with pip farmers, that bringing people into the game mode that doesn't care about the game mode and just want to farm it, doesn't really bring anything good for those that enjoy the game mode.

So how would you create a reward system that avoids all those pitfalls, and actually encourage healthy WvW play ?

yeah give me more crafting materials

Loot in this game is garbage anyway.

So you are telling me that repairing shouldn't give currency, even if they farm gold this way. They are helping the team.And 99% of the commanders are playing the game and ppl are following them. These people will be rewarded - which play the game. I am not saying the others may not exist too, however everything depends on the way this system is implemented. Even they will be stimulated to repair. Your 4. is hilarious also. You will throw a cata to build it for 5 copper and the cata costs more - good luck with that - I am pretty sure these changes will stimulate exactly this (sarcasm). If the system is implemented in a way to reward the players that are actually playing the game everything will be only in a positive direction. Even if there are defend farmers they will still do better than the pip farmers because they will try to defend/repair/build siege etc.

1+2: We already seen this through the game history, that people repair for WXP etc or for defense events back in the day. And we already have a lot of people that just repairs even when it would be a bad idea. (Example, when someone has been trebbing the keep for hours, and are going to keep trebbing, and thus repairing is just wasting supply from the defense of inner). Repairing isn't always a good move, so rewarding it with copper/gold/whatever will make it even harder to teach players to stop actually hurting the team in those situations.

3: 99% of commanders are playing the game TODAY. If you changed it so you got rewards for just being in a squad, then I would certainly imagine that some people would definitively tag up and announce in mapchat that they're "squad farm commander, join for free cash while you afk!" etc. It's a matter of human psychology.

4: You also get free siege from WXP chests, achivements, reward track etc. A lot of players would see this as free money by just dropping it random place and build it, thus also expending supply, and possibly hitting siege limit if done inside keeps. This encourage behavior we largely consider trolling today.

Basically, I think you want the right things, but that you don't consider the consequences of how humans/players changes good intentions into "rewards for least effort". There is a reason why rewards in WvW hasn't been touched as much as people want them to, because even seasoned game developers end up scratching their heads on what to do to get it right. Just look at the reward tracks we have, and the sudden existence of "pip farmers", that was certainly not what they intended when they made the reward tracks.

Look at it from a different perspective, rewards are the primary way for developers/designers to shape player behavior. So exactly what kind of behavior do you want from the players ? And just what kind of behavior would the players find that is easier to get the same rewards ? Because player motivation is almost always going to be "How can I get this the fastest, easiest, and with the least effort?". And so the rewards have to try to somehow counteract the "least effort".

Personally I think that every reward in WvW should somehow be tied into actual PvP in some manner. Not specifically in killing players, but in conflicts against other players. Basically stuff like 30 players taking an undefended tower give 0 rewards (no wxp, no reward track, no pip participation, no nada). And rather link up all rewards to the existence of enemy players, so fighting over a camp with 2-3 players each side would give full rewards. Basically tie rewards to attack/defense events where there are players from at least 2 sides present, if only 1 side, no rewards.

This basic idea has a lot of holes and problems. But it would at least solve the issue of rewarding players for playing the game-mode as it should, by confronting enemy players.

And yes, it would definitively have exploits, like 3 sides basically running around in circles killing each others, and rezzing back up inside SMC for the "rewards", but you know what, at least then they're fighting each others, I'm ok with that.

WvW rewards have "recently" been improved and are so much better than they used to be. You might like to take a closer look at the current reward system which actually already does the things you have listed (and more) using the "currency" of WvW XP and badges of honor. The reward tracks are reasonably rewarding (especially if you like boxes of stuff), and I like the fact that I can choose a track to suit what I want.

When you put forward your suggestion, it seems you have forgotten that there are a limited number of player spaces on each map. For example, if Repairing gave easy gold there would be queues on every borderland due to the number of farming bots - then everyone loses out.

I would hate to see WvW rewards linked to being in a squad. One of the joys of WvW is that you can zerg, or scout, or solo play, or run a small havoc group. All are valid play styles and all have their place. The current system rewards players in a way that is linked to their participation whatever their play style.

I think your complaint is more about WvW not being a good source of gold than the lack of rewards. To be honest, WvW has never been a way to get rich quickly, but that's ok because most people play WvW for the fun not the gold.

@"Yuffi.2430" said:WvW rewards have "recently" been improved and are so much better than they used to be. You might like to take a closer look at the current reward system which actually already does the things you have listed (and more) using the "currency" of WvW XP and badges of honor. The reward tracks are reasonably rewarding (especially if you like boxes of stuff), and I like the fact that I can choose a track to suit what I want.

When you put forward your suggestion, it seems you have forgotten that there are a limited number of player spaces on each map. For example, if Repairing gave easy gold there would be queues on every borderland due to the number of farming bots - then everyone loses out.

I would hate to see WvW rewards linked to being in a squad. One of the joys of WvW is that you can zerg, or scout, or solo play, or run a small havoc group. All are valid play styles and all have their place. The current system rewards players in a way that is linked to their participation whatever their play style.

I think your complaint is more about WvW not being a good source of gold than the lack of rewards. To be honest, WvW has never been a way to get rich quickly, but that's ok because most people play WvW for the fun not the gold.

Explain, then, why anet introduced gold rewards in PvP reward system. Are you saying that PvP players need more gold than the WvW players?All I am saying is that the game isn't rewarding enough for the ppl that are actually playing the game as it is meant to be played.The system should reward those players, not afk pip farmer or similar.My suggestions are only an example and can be implemented or changed in a different way while keeping the basic - reward the players that are playing the game.Reward them at least to go near of the PvP rewards level.And by the way, in the pick hours you get 1, maximum 2 (very rarely 2) maps with a queue, which automatically means the other 2 maps aren't full. Your statement is not valid.Also, you are forgetting that the Commanders are earning pips faster (if you are commanding 5 ppl), have you seen exploiting this? No, you haven't. Again, if implemented right you wont ever see it.

TLDR: If you want to farm gold, WvW is not your best choice. Never has been.

@Yuffi.2430 said:TLDR: If you want to farm gold, WvW is not your best choice. Never has been.

It's like saying if you want money you have to be a doctor / lawyer / (insert any very well paid job)How about preferences?Every country for example has a minimum wage just to cover your needs + anything else.With WvW I feel I get under the minimum.I prefer to play WvW. Should I stay without gold?The game is one, not 2 separate and it has the same economic.It has one TP for everyone, not 2 separate for WvW and PvE.Why should I do something that I do not enjoy, just to get (for example) a legendary 1st tier weapon that costs 2k gold, because we all know that playing PvP, PvE or WvW this game has only one end game and it is your character appearance.And, surprise, I like the shiny skins too.Some PvE players are getting it for 2-3 weeks and they enjoy the way they are getting it.Guess how much time you need to get that gold in WvW?

By your example, WvW is minimum wage job. You get just enough to get by, but never enough to buy a BMW.

Shiny skins are luxuries, not basic needs.

If anything, I think they should rather reduce PVE loot and farmability than increase WvW, or at least put a sort of limiter on it. But that's not going to be a popular opinion.

Create squad + Afk at spawn = Make money?You're under estimating how low people will go for easy gold.Why do you think people complain about afk bots in pve all the time?

While wvw has been terrible for loot for a very long time, I think the system they finally built in which the longer you play the easier it gets for getting better gear, just like doing raids will eventually get you the legendary gear, is fine as is, all 3 areas of the game have equal access to ascended gear by just playing those game modes, which is important.

As for comparisons in gold gains, spvp doesn't have the greater access to drops and nodes that wvw has, so I'm fine with them earning a little bit more liquid gold, while wvw is the in between and pve is the mode that purely rewards you loot and gold.

There's no need to reward people for swinging a hammer, like seriously.

I think reward tracks should just advance faster personally, it takes too long to get through one.

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I think reward tracks should just advance faster personally, it takes too long to get through one.

5.5-7 hours is too long?

@Yuffi.2430 said:TLDR: If you want to farm gold, WvW is not your best choice. Never has been.

hehe this is true. pve is gold.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I think reward tracks should just advance faster personally, it takes too long to get through one.

Yes

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I think reward tracks should just advance faster personally, it takes too long to get through one.

Then the rewards should be reduced to compensate.

What I would like to see added is a new skin for wvw legendary armor. It doesn't have to be drastically different but imo it should be visible that this is the last tier of the armor. It just doesn't feel right the way it is right now.

Another thing that should change is the rate at which u get Grandmaster shards. Three per week is low and should bumped up to 5 or 6 at least.

The other rewards are fine imo. It used to be much worse.

Play wvw to kill players, not to swim in gold.

WvW is great in the sense that every enemy, every NPC has a chance to drop loot like every other enemy. The mode supplies you with tons of materials and everything you need to have to continue playing (blueprints mostly). Reward tracks are great too.. Idk, rewards are pretty damn good. They are generic as hell, but it's enough.

For me its not a problem to make exotic stuff on wvw, the problem is with ascended one. To make one piece (~70g)u need 3-4 days of T4 fotms. To make piece of the same in wvw u need 2, 5 months. That the first thing that should get change.But about just Gold I have 2 solutions, im curious about your thoughts :Give rewards for all the kills: on players, guards, sentries, dolyaks and other active events like taking camps Tower keeps etc.Another one would Just count all your participation at the end of skirmish/matchup and give money or another rewards depending on all the stuff u did in week.I think both systems encourage players to active gameplay

I'd like to see all reward tracks consistent in the number of memory drops and that total number upon completion increased a bit (like 50 per track). Yes, I know these things carry a profit, but it does take a few hours to complete a track, so it seems like a fair trade off.

I mean I haven't bought the memory gobbler, because even if I had the memory funds, there'd be no point in gobbling excess, because there never seems to be an excess.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I think reward tracks should just advance faster personally, it takes too long to get through one.

Except you can already do the tracks faster through unranked PvP... So WvW is just less rewarding.

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I think reward tracks should just advance faster personally, it takes too long to get through one.

Reward tracks are not the only things you can do in WvW to be rewarded.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I think reward tracks should just advance faster personally, it takes too long to get through one.

The rewards for the so called other things are too low to count.

If we got more https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic-Warped_Packet and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic-Warped_Bundle from Skirmish chests + more https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin (from the final chests of each tier except wood), we could easily solve WvW players material needs for crafting ascended items and offer them a source of coin if they chose to sell mats.

@Safandula.8723 said:For me its not a problem to make exotic stuff on wvw, the problem is with ascended one. To make one piece (~70g)u need 3-4 days of T4 fotms. To make piece of the same in wvw u need 2, 5 months. That the first thing that should get change.But about just Gold I have 2 solutions, im curious about your thoughts :Give rewards for all the kills: on players, guards, sentries, dolyaks and other active events like taking camps Tower keeps etc.Another one would Just count all your participation at the end of skirmish/matchup and give money or another rewards depending on all the stuff u did in week.I think both systems encourage players to active gameplay

That is weird, because I can get 2 ascended pieces with FULLY selectable stats per week (helm-boots-gloves-shoulders), or 1 chest/1 leggings. Why does it take you 3-4 months? Huge inaccuracy right there. Moreover, you get more rewards the more you play, from reward tracks (5-5.5 hours per track, plus the bonus stuff you get from repeating the diamond chest). Also, why do we need to compare WvW with PvE, reward-wise? Not ALL pve yields the money Istan does, or silverwastes. WvW is good in rewards right now. You have the CERTAIN chance of getting ascended equipment, obsidian weapons, mistforged weapons.We also get 6 coins/week, if we finish diamond chest. PER WEEK. Given that we get 20 coins PER MONTH for logging in, that would make us another 24 coins (4 weeks). An increase above 100%.A lot of us have been playing the mode before any of this was introduced, because it was fun. Rewards are decent in wvw right now. Please, keep the pve mentality in pve.Have fun!