Reward System: Make WvW Competive Again — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Reward System: Make WvW Competive Again

Will we see an reward overhaul in wvw? Currently there is nothing worthy to actually defend a tower or siege one. Only some lame karma and XP. Also there is no difference in winning or losing the current matchup.

Please bring back something worthy to make it more competive again! :)

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Comments

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Agree!
    ..but I'm not sure what could be offered. As a WvW player, I care very little about gold or loot. I've already got full Legendary Armour, but if those things would attract interest and people to come care about winning, I'm all for it.

  • edited August 21, 2018

    Overhaul is a pretty strong word. No "overhaul" is planned. But we do continually look at rewards to add or things to tweak. For example, the somewhat recent addition of Grandmaster Mark shards. We do have some thoughts on how to better reward activities like defending and/or attacking a defended objective. However, it's much too early to talk about.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018

    @NeroBoron.7285 : WvW lived during the first 4 years with the worst rewards (It cost weapon and upgrade gold.) in the game and It was in a much better state, for me, than now.
    I am convinced that the more farmland, blobfriendly & rewarding WvW become, the less it will be healthy and interesting.

  • @NeroBoron.7285 said:
    Will we see an reward overhaul in wvw? Currently there is nothing worthy to actually defend a tower or siege one. Only some lame karma and XP. Also there is no difference in winning or losing the current matchup.

    Please bring back something worthy to make it more competive again! :)

    I don't really agree while most of guild are in WvW to have bus fights and don't really care about objectives... depends on the guilds ofc . Most of the time catapult or other siege weapon are there to attract enemies on you.

  • I imagine some sort of aesthetic reward for servers (or guilds, in the coming future) would be a good enough incentive to make wvw more competitive, while not introducing any economic bloat.

  • NeroBoron.7285NeroBoron.7285 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Overhaul is a pretty strong word. No "overhaul" is planned. But we do continually look at rewards to add or things to tweak. For example, the somewhat recent addition of Grandmaster Mark shards. We do have some thoughts on how to better reward activities like defending and/or attacking a defended objective. However, it's much too early to talk about.

    The grandmaster mark shard addition is really great :) imo the current way the rewards system feels kinda 'passive'. Great to hear that you are checking other options out as well. Is probably not that easy. Because with only an active reward system scouts are left behind as well :S maybe a mixture of the current pip system with much lesser pips within the interval and more pips after an event.

    @Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

    @NeroBoron.7285 said:
    Will we see an reward overhaul in wvw? Currently there is nothing worthy to actually defend a tower or siege one. Only some lame karma and XP. Also there is no difference in winning or losing the current matchup.

    Please bring back something worthy to make it more competive again! :)

    I don't really agree while most of guild are in WvW to have bus fights and don't really care about objectives... depends on the guilds ofc . Most of the time catapult or other siege weapon are there to attract enemies on you.

    Yep, sadly I'm at that point as well. Making it more rewarding would at least make it worthy to care for objectives and not to completely ignore the main aspect of wvw.

    That's why I hope for a decent gvg system with wvw stats / balance as well with leaderboard, rating and rewards

    @viquing.8254 said:
    @NeroBoron.7285 : WvW lived during the first 4 years with the worst rewards (It cost weapon and upgrade gold.) in the game and It was in a much better state, for me, than now.
    I am convinced that the more farmland, blobfriendly & rewarding WvW become, the less it will be healthy and interesting.

    True :sweat_smile:
    Probably not easy to manage that it won't end in something like karmatrain. And of course it shouldn't be that blobfriendly. Maybe higher rewards for defending low level objectives, and lesser for defending higher level objectives. While flipping a a low level objective has really low level rewards and a high level objective also a good reward.

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Overhaul is a pretty strong word. No "overhaul" is planned. But we do continually look at rewards to add or things to tweak. For example, the somewhat recent addition of Grandmaster Mark shards. We do have some thoughts on how to better reward activities like defending and/or attacking a defended objective. However, it's much too early to talk about.

    Would be amazing if rewards could cover food and siege used but they don't so its never too late to talk about rewards :)

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Less tomes and a little extra gold would be nice. Some general qol changes would be welcome, like stacking dungeon gear boxes, more items from the skirmish chests etc.

    BG

  • Cronos.6532Cronos.6532 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2018

    Increase WXP rewards across the board and add more uses for Badges of Honor including WXP-related rewards

    Replace Siege Blueprint Cases in WvW all reward tracks. They devalue blueprints, too random, and blueprints come easy via Skirmish Chests and spending Heroics and coin on them

    Remove Tomes of Knowledge from all WvW reward tracks: no-brainer

    signature

  • Also, can we include in the description of the seige blueprint that it includes traps as well?

  • Blackarps.1974Blackarps.1974 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Overhaul is a pretty strong word. No "overhaul" is planned. But we do continually look at rewards to add or things to tweak. For example, the somewhat recent addition of Grandmaster Mark shards. We do have some thoughts on how to better reward activities like defending and/or attacking a defended objective. However, it's much too early to talk about.

    So you're saying its probably not anytime soon where we will see increased rewards? Just the fact that you can make more gold doing 20 minutes worth of a raid than 4 hours of a night of reset in WvW is very saddening.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blackarps.1974 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Overhaul is a pretty strong word. No "overhaul" is planned. But we do continually look at rewards to add or things to tweak. For example, the somewhat recent addition of Grandmaster Mark shards. We do have some thoughts on how to better reward activities like defending and/or attacking a defended objective. However, it's much too early to talk about.

    So you're saying its probably not anytime soon where we will see increased rewards? Just the fact that you can make more gold doing 20 minutes worth of a raid than 4 hours of a night of reset in WvW is very saddening.

    It's a super small change that would fix that -- make Gift of Battle tradeable, rather than account bound.

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Make WvW competitive and give us back server identity.

    Which requires :

    Stop "free" bandwagoning. Having ANYONE able to move to the winning server makes winning meaningless. The more you win, the more your community dies because rewardhungry players are drawn to you like wasps to sugar.

    Give us a reason to compete. Without bandwagoning freely you can give us REWARDS based on server-wide performance again.

    Let us create a stable alliance / environment. Why would I work to improve the pugs that aren't part of my alliance? Why would I work to improve the pugs that aren't part of my server? Why would I care about them while leading? Why would we play together? Why would I PPT? Why would I help them defend or attack anything if I don't feel like it? You don't get rewards nor better matches nor recognition nor fun gameplay by trying to "win" PPT every 2 months; much less every week. Half the later matchups before the full shuffle are completely meaningless other than fixing your glicko rating for that one RNG based mu; and the links that you get.

    There's absolutely NO reasons to play together or to try and win at the moment. The game is set up in such a way that it's advantageous to NOT win and control how high you score every single matchup - and that's unhealthy in the long run. It doesn't allow players to play "how they wish". It means it's insanely difficult to play how you wish.

    Make wvw competitive and give us identities. Screw servers, give full power to alliances and let them control their server / alliance. Give them a reason to compete and try to become the very best. Players competing is a better balancing system than any metric you can come up with.

  • Give us bonus pips for tiers beyond t3 participation. And reduce the amount of seige blueprint cases, and transmutation charges. Replace them with mist warped packets or something like that which is actually useful. Or just straight up gold; that never hurts.

  • I'd like to see WvW Legendary armor be a bit more accessible. Presently skirmish claim tickets seem to serve as a reward for grind, not for skill or merit.

    Consider raiding and PvP - you need skill - and yes, some grind - to earn legendary armor in these game modes. But in WvW it's just straight up grind. This means that capable players aren't as rewarded for being capable, and are kind of stuck grinding with zergs. :\

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cronos.6532 said:
    Remove Tomes of Knowledge from all WvW reward tracks: no-brainer

    How is someone who doesn't play PvE supposed to level up then?

    How is level 80 going to obtain spirit shards for purchasing certain crafting materials?

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think what puts most people off the current reward system has to do with their lower WXP rank and how that ties into pip progression. Being able to reach Diamond pips more often than not with less playtime makes me feel like the rewards in WvW aren't particularly low. Raising the number of pips for low WXP was a good step.

    As a vet, the part of the rewards I like are not necessarily the amount of loot, but in having access via the reward tracks to certain things that could only previously be obtained via PvE. It brought some parity to players who spend the vast majority of their time in WvW or sPvP instead of PvE.

  • Zushada.6108Zushada.6108 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Overhaul is a pretty strong word. No "overhaul" is planned. But we do continually look at rewards to add or things to tweak. For example, the somewhat recent addition of Grandmaster Mark shards. We do have some thoughts on how to better reward activities like defending and/or attacking a defended objective. However, it's much too early to talk about.

    I would be happy if you increased the weekly cap on the Skirmish claim tickets. Nothing astronomical but even a couple of additional chests past the Diamond tier would help a fair bit. On our server, most of the veteran and/or WvW only players have their chests completed by Tuesday or early Wednesday. The result is that we start getting light on players until reset. Even for myself who is a casual WvW player can get the Diamond tier done well in advance of the weekly reset.

  • Kitta.3657Kitta.3657 Member ✭✭
    edited August 23, 2018

    I don't have much to add to rewards discussion as some of my thoughts have been brought up (mainly giving good incentives for matchups to be actually competitive and give us a reason to care to win) but if you're going to touch Skirmish Claim Tickets; give us an avenue to spend them to make gold because there isn't much of a good avenue to spend them :/ It's actually a complete waste to use them for gear/trinkets at the price of Memories of Battle.

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2018

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    I think what puts most people off the current reward system has to do with their lower WXP rank and how that ties into pip progression. Being able to reach Diamond pips more often than not with less playtime makes me feel like the rewards in WvW aren't particularly low. Raising the number of pips for low WXP was a good step.

    As a vet, the part of the rewards I like are not necessarily the amount of loot, but in having access via the reward tracks to certain things that could only previously be obtained via PvE. It brought some parity to players who spend the vast majority of their time in WvW or sPvP instead of PvE.

    I'm at 5k+ rank and i cap tickets without issues weekly, as long as I want to actually play WvW.
    The rewards are still an absolute joke compared to pvp and pve if you're not half-afk leeching them. I get more rewards doing 3 hours of raids than all my pips which at 5k rank still takes 15 hours without outnumbered farming. 15 hours of PvP will get me several weeks of rewards in WvW... And I can play it at ANY time during the season. The only way PvP and WvW even out is if you look at pvp season + off season as a giant timegate, then ignore how wvw requires you to play 15 hours + EVERY week without fail just to break even. Meanwhile 20-30 hours of pvp during 2 months caps me on the rewards except byzantium.

    And lets not compare grinding diamond chest in wvw to grinding byzantium in PvP because ... hahahaha XD balance. Byzantium will give me 30g+ in liquid gold... diamond chests will give me some heavily devalued materials :)
    The truth is I play WvW the vast majority of my time, and get all my loot in other gamemodes. Because WvW rewards are balanced around AFK-farming them, not around actively playing. And that's a huge issue.

    They shouldn't really increase pip rewards OR afk farm rewards in any way. They should definitely increase rewards for active play. People talk about kill-trading, but do you really think people will "kill trade" for hours for 5g/ hour? I highly doubt it. I think structures should gain increasing rewards the longer they're "held" and the more active the map is. Flipping an EB keep that hasn't been flipped all week should reward me more than hopping to home bl to flip that T0 bay back. It's also difficult to abuse : nobody is going to "not flip objectives" jsut so their rewards increase a little bit over time. Upgrade status of objectives should also matter.

    Right now kills, lootbags, events, objectives both defending and attacking contribute so little to your overall loot it's negligable. This promotes AFK-farming the rewards others actively play for, which isn't healthy for the mode nor feels fair and rewarding. I understand scouts also deserve loot, i'm not stating we should remove their rewards in any way. I'm just saying there should be a balance between both, and that balance is currently favoring AFK-farming way too much.

    S>Gift of battle - 100g to increase my WvW rewards - pm me ingame. xoxo

  • @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Cronos.6532 said:
    Remove Tomes of Knowledge from all WvW reward tracks: no-brainer

    How is someone who doesn't play PvE supposed to level up then?

    How is level 80 going to obtain spirit shards for purchasing certain crafting materials?

    From the tome of knowledge included in every rank up chest.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2018

    @Etheri.5406 said:
    I get more rewards doing 3 hours of raids than all my pips which at 5k rank still takes 15 hours without outnumbered farming.

    I do raids too. You're not taking into account the time-gating. You can kill the same boss multiple times in a week but you are only getting that reward once per week.

    The only way PvP and WvW even out is if you look at pvp season + off season as a giant timegate

    Exactly. The only time-gated reward in WvW is the claim tickets, which buy you account-bound things.

    The truth is I play WvW the vast majority of my time, and get all my loot in other gamemodes. Because WvW rewards are balanced around AFK-farming them, not around actively playing. And that's a huge issue.
    do you really think people will "kill trade" for hours for 5g/ hour? I highly doubt it.

    It did happen one time in the OS before so the behavior potential is there, not too unlike certain custom arenas in sPvP nor unlike AFK-farming.

    There was a time when Heavy Loot Bags could fetch more than 5s on the TP and it was worth it to sell the stacks. Their value drop is a direct result of the increased availability of crafting materials elsewhere in the game, not anything to do with WvW itself (which also is your criticism about Diamond chests). Maybe drop rates should be changed to make them more valuable again. Looking at the value of such loot is a perfect reason for Rewards to be combined into Systems.

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Etheri.5406 said:
    I get more rewards doing 3 hours of raids than all my pips which at 5k rank still takes 15 hours without outnumbered farming.

    I do raids too. You're not taking into account the time-gating. You can kill the same boss multiple times in a week but you are only getting that reward once per week.

    The truth is, even repeating raids at a decently high skill level gives me 4 bags of gear and 2 exotic lootbags. Frankly that's not much worse than repeating my diamond chests. So howmuch worse are raids really when you repeat them? Not at all. The issue wiht raids is no loot while you wait 30 minutes for appropriate pugs.

    And I don't know about you, half my raid static friends that still raid use alts just to get loot a second time. During boring mu's, i'll end up clearing 5+ times but... the loot still isn't that bad compared to WvW unless you're using writs while grinding golems all day. Which I know some players do, but still.

    The only way PvP and WvW even out is if you look at pvp season + off season as a giant timegate

    Exactly. The only time-gated reward in WvW is the claim tickets, which buy you account-bound things.

    The truth is I play WvW the vast majority of my time, and get all my loot in other gamemodes. Because WvW rewards are balanced around AFK-farming them, not around actively playing. And that's a huge issue.
    do you really think people will "kill trade" for hours for 5g/ hour? I highly doubt it.

    It did happen one time in the OS before so the behavior potential is there, not too unlike certain custom arenas in sPvP nor unlike AFK-farming.

    Account bound things which cost a full stack of proof of heroics

    It happened in OS, yes. And it was fixed faster than any other WvW issues were ever fixed, by removing loot from OS all together.

    The next best farm would be running from bay and garri or hills and garri once both sides have a T3 waypoint, or south side on a third map to feed kills. Frankly you better run quickly with full maps of people, all tag eachother and somehow also all kill eachother very quickly if you want to farm more than ... just doing any kind of high-reward content including SW, istan, raids, T4 fractals, leatherfarm, material collecting; ....

    There was a time when Heavy Loot Bags could fetch more than 5s on the TP and it was worth it to sell the stacks. Their value drop is a direct result of the increased availability of crafting materials elsewhere in the game, not anything to do with WvW itself (which also is your criticism about Diamond chests). Maybe drop rates should be changed to make them more valuable again. Looking at the value of such loot is a perfect reason for Rewards to be combined into Systems.

    And yes, other content gives me liquid gold which was somewhat valuable. I don't mind getting materials or gold, it's the same for me. It's just that the gold value / time value of WvW is very very low; and progressively worse as material prices continue to drop due to other gamemodes not struggling with a lack of rewards ;)

    Frankly I don't really need loot, at all. The only stuff I buy is more convenience items and even on those i'm pretty much maxed out. I can start working towards those 32 slot bags for ... all my wvw active characters. I'd get legendaries but the openworld pve disgusts me.

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