People are getting rocked by scourge. Stop.

because they keep eating all the aoe condi bombs. i really dont get it. it's an easy spec to destroy, it's squishy AF. just stay at 900-1200, kite it, and kill it. im losing a ton of games because my teammates keep feeding enemy scourges. they dont bring condi cleanse, they dont kite, they over-commit. if enemy team has 2x scourge and we have less or none, game is over. pretty frustrating, especially when people see it as "OP" and are spamming it. at least 3-4 scourge in every game.

the biggest annoyance by far though for me is that I literally have to play my glassbow ranger to melt these guys, otherwise people will just feed forever. and i really didnt wanna go back to the glassbow.

It's pretty much what's happening with Spellbreaker as well. People dive straight into Full Counter, get destroyed, and then complain about it.

If they bothered to avoid it or dodge it, they would find out that Spellbreaker has no burst damage aside from Full Counter and really can't do much when it's on CD.Just like they don't realize how incredibly squishy Scourge is, and how it's completely helpless against anything ranged.

But I guess it's to be expected, the specs are still new and since most people only play one class, they have no idea how other specs work and how they can counter them.Give it some time, and the match quality should hopefully get better as people wise up to them.

@Zeghart.9841 said:It's pretty much what's happening with Spellbreaker as well. People dive straight into Full Counter, get destroyed, and then complain about it.

If they bothered to avoid it or dodge it, they would find out that Spellbreaker has no burst damage aside from Full Counter and really can't do much when it's on CD.Just like they don't realize how incredibly squishy Scourge is, and how it's completely helpless against anything ranged.

But I guess it's to be expected, the specs are still new and since most people only play one class, they have no idea how other specs work and how they can counter them.Give it some time, and the match quality should hopefully get better as people wise up to them.

UH? Warrior still has burst adrenal skills, skills such as Break Enchantments, Bullscharge into 100blades or anyother combo, rampage.. kitten even dodging on zerk amy does a decent amount of dmg with the dodge roll dmg trait. Full counter is just another way for someone to hit 0 on the warrior, on top of using it to cripple its enemies and kite away with the cripple/slow on fullcounter trait. Your correct, bad players will not dodge the full counter or stand far away from it, but when full counter does so much, that it is used so much more than just away to do damage.. and on a 8sec cd.. its more of a free block (that is immune to unblockables) w/ AoE interrupt.

.../15char

scourge is so squishy. you can just insta kill them with range from outside the point then decap. rocking up on DH or Gunflame & seeing their smug satisfaction turn to terror when they realise i’m not going to stand on the point (where all the sand shades are) untill they are in downstate is priceless.

damage is high yeah, but it’s basically a free kill without support so idk if it needs to be toned down as much as people think. but i’m going to reserve full judgement until i see some tournament games.

I really dont think Scourge and Spellbreaker need "toning down". people just need to l2p.

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:UH? Warrior still has burst adrenal skills, skills such as Break Enchantments, Bullscharge into 100blades or anyother combo, rampage.. kitten even dodging on zerk amy does a decent amount of dmg with the dodge roll dmg trait. Full counter is just another way for someone to hit 0 on the warrior, on top of using it get to cripple its enemies and kite away with the cripple/slow on fullcounter trait.

t1 bursts, which are pretty laughable. Break Enchantments hits decently, but doesn't offer much and a lot of Spellbreakers would rather take stances and/or featherfoot grace for survivability, since they'll die without them. Same for Bull's Charge, except that's also useless if not traited and if the enemy has a stunbreak. Reckless dodge isn't really burst damage, you'd have to get rolled on over and over for it to add up. That's without mentioning how plentiful blocks and dodges are for everything else.

Really the only way for a Spellbreaker to burst you down without FC is if you get CC'd, do nothing about it and stay inside Hundred Blades for the full duration.The spec itself trades a lot of the damage that would normally be available to Warriors for FC, and if they don't land that skill they're basically a worse Core Warrior.

As a scourge player, the biggest mistake that I see enemy teams doing is that they are afraid to engage me. Allowing a scourge breathing room results in the exact same outcome that giving a glass staff ele breathing room does - your team gets murdered.

Scourge squishy, the best way to handle it is to simply tunnel it down. DH, Holosmith, Daredevil, and most warrior specs can easily just bull through scourge's melee hate and burn the scourge down before the scourge can nuke anything. And of course ranged classes, like LB ranger and Deadeye can just kill a scourge with relative ease.

Scourge is the necromancer equivalent of a glass staff ele, and you handle it the same way you handle a staff ele.

Now granted scourge + support tempest is a monster, but nobody plays support tempest in solo queue anymore so.

@Zeghart.9841 said:

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:UH? Warrior still has burst adrenal skills, skills such as Break Enchantments, Bullscharge into 100blades or anyother combo, rampage.. kitten even dodging on zerk amy does a decent amount of dmg with the dodge roll dmg trait. Full counter is just another way for someone to hit 0 on the warrior, on top of using it get to cripple its enemies and kite away with the cripple/slow on fullcounter trait.

What are you running? magi amy? have you ever fought any good warriors such as Crysis, thermite, mur, helio.. etc.. they burst you down in seconds while most of the time you hit 0s on them.

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:

@Zeghart.9841 said:

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:UH? Warrior still has burst adrenal skills, skills such as Break Enchantments, Bullscharge into 100blades or anyother combo, rampage.. kitten even dodging on zerk amy does a decent amount of dmg with the dodge roll dmg trait. Full counter is just another way for someone to hit 0 on the warrior, on top of using it get to cripple its enemies and kite away with the cripple/slow on fullcounter trait.

And we are talking about conquest here, since this is the PvP forum. I hate it when people think you can just sit off node 100% of the time to avoid everything a scourge and warrior does, and act like every class has unlimited dodges and movement skills. This is conquest, you stand on point to win the game.. along with rotations and teamfights, but if we followed anyone's advice on this forum about 1v1ing scourges or spellbreakers, we would lose 90% of the conquest match ups. Yes you can kite like you explained in your posts in WvW, this is PvP aka Conquest. You can win a 1v1 by just contesting a node and nobody dieing, since you are making points for your team to reach 500.

If PvP was pure deathmatch then yes, spell breaker and scourge are not super op, but it isnt, its conquest. Spell breaker and scourge are OP on NODE which GETS YOU POINTS to WIN GAME.

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:What are you running? magi amy? have you ever fought any good warriors such as Crysis, thermite, mur, helio.. etc.. they burst you down in seconds while most of the time you hit 0s on them.

Actually Berserker at the moment, which is probably a bad idea. But yeah, most good players will do that, especially since they first make sure to waste the enemy's endurance or defensive CDs before landing a FC and finishing them off.

Core Warriors and Berserkers have way more access to damage, the difference of the Spellbreaker is that it does less damage, but can generally apply it more reliably.

And we are talking about conquest here, since this is the PvP forum.

That's right. This is sPvP, not 1v1 dueling. Which is why if you have problems you can outrotate people, +1, and everything else. There are three points, you don't have to jump into a Full Counter or stand inside Scourge's shades. If you or your build can't deal with it, maybe rotate and help another point. This thread has already explained what the weaknesses of those specs are.

@Zeghart.9841 said:

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:What are you running? magi amy? have you ever fought any good warriors such as Crysis, thermite, mur, helio.. etc.. they burst you down in seconds while most of the time you hit 0s on them.

That is absolutely not true that core warriors and berserker warriors do more damage than spellbreaker. Spellbreaker can potentially do more actually, on top of having boon removal, which was 1 of the things warriors were missing in skills/traits. Now they have boon removal on top of heavy damage, full counter even gives them more survivability on node.

Because most meta PvP builds are built around contesting caps and focus on melee damage.

To counter scourge, you need long range dps, things like deadeye or longbow ranger. But these specs are very situational. It is very easy to counter them by bringing in support like scrapper and tempest. Or you can also just send daredevil and mesmers to harrass them.

So in the end, the counter to scourge is too niche to run and scourge can run freely on the field as a result.

@Exciton.8942 said:Because most meta PvP builds are built around contesting caps and focus on melee damage.

To counter scourge, you need long range dps, things like deadeye or longbow ranger. But these specs are very situational. It is very easy to counter them by bringing in support like scrapper and tempest. Or you can also just send daredevil and mesmers to harrass them.

So in the end, the counter to scourge is too niche to run and scourge can run freely on the field as a result.

OMG this guy gets it.

@Exciton.8942 said:Because most meta PvP builds are built around contesting caps and focus on melee damage.

To counter scourge, you need long range dps, things like deadeye or longbow ranger. But these specs are very situational. It is very easy to counter them by bringing in support like scrapper and tempest. Or you can also just send daredevil and mesmers to harrass them.

So in the end, the counter to scourge is too niche to run and scourge can run freely on the field as a result.

What if I told you that there are several melee builds capable of winning a point brawl against a scourge?

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:That is absolutely not true that core warriors and berserker warriors do more damage than spellbreaker. Spellbreaker can potentially do more actually, on top of having boon removal, which was 1 of the things warriors were missing in skills/traits. Now they have boon removal on top of heavy damage, full counter even gives them more survivability on node.

They do. Spellbreakers don't have access to t2-t3 bursts, have less adrenaline bars, have fewer damage modifiers, worse trait application, daggers have low dps - they literally do less damage. Which is also why SB is absolute garbage in PvE, by the way.

They trade offense for innate defensive capabilities and "reliable" damage with FC. That's the point of the spec.

@Exciton.8942 said:Because most meta PvP builds are built around contesting caps and focus on melee damage.

To counter scourge, you need long range dps, things like deadeye or longbow ranger. But these specs are very situational. It is very easy to counter them by bringing in support like scrapper and tempest. Or you can also just send daredevil and mesmers to harrass them.

So in the end, the counter to scourge is too niche to run and scourge can run freely on the field as a result.

So it's OP because it would...change the meta? I don't see anything wrong with it to be honest. It's not like the meta has never had safe builds to run.

If the counters to Scourges are situational, even better. It gives counterplay to the counterplay.

In any case, we'll see what happens to the PvP meta in the next weeks.The weaknesses and strong points of these specs are already starting to become obvious, we'll see how the meta changes to deal with them.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Exciton.8942 said:Because most meta PvP builds are built around contesting caps and focus on melee damage.

To counter scourge, you need long range dps, things like deadeye or longbow ranger. But these specs are very situational. It is very easy to counter them by bringing in support like scrapper and tempest. Or you can also just send daredevil and mesmers to harrass them.

So in the end, the counter to scourge is too niche to run and scourge can run freely on the field as a result.

You mean a spellbreaker or DH? yeah possibly. however depends on what build you are playing on scourge, you can go full damage or more tanky, which will effect the outcome in those melee brawls. However scourge is op in teamfights and 2v2s.. too much damage.

@Exciton.8942 said:Because most meta PvP builds are built around contesting caps and focus on melee damage.

To counter scourge, you need long range dps, things like deadeye or longbow ranger. But these specs are very situational. It is very easy to counter them by bringing in support like scrapper and tempest. Or you can also just send daredevil and mesmers to harrass them.

So in the end, the counter to scourge is too niche to run and scourge can run freely on the field as a result.

there are some really hardy Soulbeast LB builds that wouldnt be hardcountered by daredevils or mesmers. right now in low plat im running glassbow with ease, but i know once I move up i'll probably have to run a Demolisher build.

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Exciton.8942 said:Because most meta PvP builds are built around contesting caps and focus on melee damage.

To counter scourge, you need long range dps, things like deadeye or longbow ranger. But these specs are very situational. It is very easy to counter them by bringing in support like scrapper and tempest. Or you can also just send daredevil and mesmers to harrass them.

So in the end, the counter to scourge is too niche to run and scourge can run freely on the field as a result.

If you go against any competent players, you will be the reason your team lost with that build.

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Exciton.8942 said:Because most meta PvP builds are built around contesting caps and focus on melee damage.

To counter scourge, you need long range dps, things like deadeye or longbow ranger. But these specs are very situational. It is very easy to counter them by bringing in support like scrapper and tempest. Or you can also just send daredevil and mesmers to harrass them.

So in the end, the counter to scourge is too niche to run and scourge can run freely on the field as a result.

I am around 1600-1650 and most of the games I am matched against gold players. You really can't expect them to perform consistently so you want to hard carry the fight. Scourge does that very well.

@Zeghart.9841 said:

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:That is absolutely not true that core warriors and berserker warriors do more damage than spellbreaker. Spellbreaker can potentially do more actually, on top of having boon removal, which was 1 of the things warriors were missing in skills/traits. Now they have boon removal on top of heavy damage, full counter even gives them more survivability on node.

@Exciton.8942 said:Because most meta PvP builds are built around contesting caps and focus on melee damage.

To counter scourge, you need long range dps, things like deadeye or longbow ranger. But these specs are very situational. It is very easy to counter them by bringing in support like scrapper and tempest. Or you can also just send daredevil and mesmers to harrass them.

So in the end, the counter to scourge is too niche to run and scourge can run freely on the field as a result.

No they don't, if spellbreaker doesnt do more, it does the same. I think it does more since the damage is alot more reliable with some of the heavy hitting damage skills being unblockable. Also its not about the meta, its how the build performs in the GAME MODE CONQUEST. Its too good on node in all situations: 1) outnumbered fights, 2) rotation speed, 3)1v1s, 4)teamfights, 5)2v2s.

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Exciton.8942 said:Because most meta PvP builds are built around contesting caps and focus on melee damage.

To counter scourge, you need long range dps, things like deadeye or longbow ranger. But these specs are very situational. It is very easy to counter them by bringing in support like scrapper and tempest. Or you can also just send daredevil and mesmers to harrass them.

So in the end, the counter to scourge is too niche to run and scourge can run freely on the field as a result.

lol. big words little man. very charged, yet presumptive.

@mistsim.2748 said:

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:

@Exciton.8942 said:Because most meta PvP builds are built around contesting caps and focus on melee damage.

To counter scourge, you need long range dps, things like deadeye or longbow ranger. But these specs are very situational. It is very easy to counter them by bringing in support like scrapper and tempest. Or you can also just send daredevil and mesmers to harrass them.

So in the end, the counter to scourge is too niche to run and scourge can run freely on the field as a result.

im talking from experience... i know you have no idea who i am. maybe you know me as Ferox? been competing in spvp since forever in all of the tournaments you havnt probably even heard of. and im not talking about the recent ATs. Take what i say as advice not shit talk.

i play scourge cuz i find condi bomb fun, yeah is trollish. but i will tell the secret: the worst nightmare for scourge are reapers, when i see one i run.