Which professions go best thematically with which races? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Which professions go best thematically with which races?

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  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Norn:

    The norn focus on personal excellence through hunting and physical combat make rangers and warriors some of the most common professions. Revenants may also become increasingly popular: the norn reverence towards legend would make them a good fit, and unlike humans, they're likely to care little about whether the legend they channel was a hero or a villain, and their good relations with the charr mean that revenants are possibly more likely to filter through into norn society than into other races (but again, AFAIK we've had no indication that this is happening). Like humans, necromancers appear to be distrusted, but their connection to Raven means that they are present. Other professions seem to come up due to connections with the spirits: guardians with Wolf and possibly Bear, thieves and mesmers with Raven and Snow Leopard. Engineers are probably fairly rare: they certainly DO exist, but the norn as a while tend to prefer less technological approaches. Elementalists are hard to pick (outside of Svanirites, obviously) - we don't see them very often, however, and given that the norn don't seem to have any animal spirits associated with the elements directly and elemental spirits were (according to Egil Fireteller) generally regarded as enemies rather than friends, they're probably not all that common.

    Summary:
    Common: Ranger, warrior.
    Uncommon: Guardian, mesmer, revenant, thief.
    Rare: Elementalist, engineer, necromancer.

    I don't agree with this list at all.- Necromancers are, by no means, distrusted in any of the races. They use dark magic, but that doesn't mean that magic is bad.- I mean, look, the biggest goody-two-shoes in the game was a Necro (Traeharne, RIP) and one of the Primeval Queens was also a Necro.- But going back to the norn topic:
    Elementalist and Necromancers are by no means rare. They enter under Raven's view and Raven is one of the four main Spirits of the Wild, Raven is known for its connection with the dead so Necromancers are natural followers and he is also known for his scholary tendencies so Elementalists aren't supossed to be rare either.

    I would argue that, if we wanted to go for rare (Or better said, not stereotypical) professions, then those would be thief, mesmer and engineer, but even then I would be mostly wrong because thieves fall under Snow Leopard (another major spirit)

    We've seen evidence of norn having some dislike of necromancy, in GW1 and in Ghosts of Ascalon. It's tempered by being associated with Raven (similar how among humans, Grenth's favour limits just how much people distrust necromancers), and it's probably not as strong since norn don't have the history of being victimised by undead that humans do, but norn seem to be just as wigged out by the idea of them or their friends and family being made into undead as Krytans and Ascalonians are (although the norn principle of not assigning guilt by association is that they won't judge anybody just for being a necromancer until they do something that's taboo). It's also worth noting that Raven seems to be third among the norn spirits, behind Bear and Wolf, so Raven's favour isn't going to translate into widespread popularity.

    When it comes to elementalists... it's mostly that we just generally don't see them. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any norn elementalist NPCs in EOTN, and while I'm pretty sure I've seen an NPC norn elementalist somewhere in GW2 (not counting Svanir shamans, since they're hardly representative of the norn in general and it's arguable if they're really elementalists at all), I can't remember where.

    Mesmers and thieves, as you note, work for Snow Leopard... and for Raven (one of the hero points in Snowden is a Raven mesmer who went rogue, IIRC, and Raven appreciates trickery in general). Overall, my observation is that while norn scholars are uncommon in general, when you do see them, there's actually a good chance of them being mesmers. I haven't done a thorough analysis, so it's possible that if I went through every norn in the wiki (I'm... not going to do that) I'd find that the ratio of norn mesmers to other scholars is lower than I thought, but that's certainly my impression.

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    Asura actually strike me as fitting guardian pretty well with the Asura we've met and it being the most conventionally magic focused of the soldier professions.

    I think it's probably more fitting than warrior, and asura certainly would appreciate a profession that throws around forcefields like guardians do, but we still don't see that many of them. Being a race that is both fairly secular and fairly individualistic, it's likely that it's rare for asura to manifest the level of faith that empowers guardian magic.

    I think I did consider bumping asura guardians up to 'uncommon' on the basis that, despite this, the ratio of guardians to warriors might still be higher than you'd normally expect, but I didn't really have evidence to back that up - like norn elementalists, off the top of my head I can't name any NPC asura guardians.

  • @JTHMRulez.9378 said:
    I don't agree with this list at all.- Necromancers are, by no means, distrusted in any of the races. They use dark magic, but that doesn't mean that magic is bad.- I mean, look, the biggest goody-two-shoes in the game was a Necro (Traeharne, RIP) and one of the Primeval Queens was also a Necro.-

    Nahlah and Dahlah aren't exactly prime examples since they're ancient historical figures. But there were actually a bit of lore about how humanity has grown distant to necromancy due to the heavy use of it in negative light - mainly Joko, the Foefire ghosts, and both the rising and sinking of Orr.

    As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

    In Ghosts of Ascalon, this is also remarked upon with how every race but sylvari view necromancy as at least creepy, when Killeen commands a fresh Ebon Vanguard corpse without asking anyone.

    There's no overarching "necromancy is eeeevil!" commentation, but there is a pretty widespread "I'm creeped out by it", which even exists in GW1 in the pre-Searing trainers, with how both Ciglo and Sebedoh have dissing comments about necromancy (and almost all of the trainers have issues with Verata, but that may just be Verata). Just to name a few more iconic instances. And this unsettling has gotten worse for humans (particularly Krytans and Elonian refugees in DR).

    And of course, charr hate and distrust all magic.

    If one had to rank levels of distrust to trust for necromancy among the races, it'd probably be:

    • Charr
    • Norn/Human
    • Asura
    • Sylvari

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:
    But going back to the norn topic:
    Elementalist and Necromancers are by no means rare. They enter under Raven's view and Raven is one of the four main Spirits of the Wild, Raven is known for its connection with the dead so Necromancers are natural followers and he is also known for his scholary tendencies so Elementalists aren't supossed to be rare either.

    I would argue that, if we wanted to go for rare (Or better said, not stereotypical) professions, then those would be thief, mesmer and engineer, but even then I would be mostly wrong because thieves fall under Snow Leopard (another major spirit)

    It's actually necromancers and mesmers that fall under Raven. And thieves fall under Snow Leopard (probably mesmers too). We don't really have a solid place for elementalist (elementalists are not innately "scholarly" btw, that's just the human Ascalonian view of them - Canthans, for example, are more about raw power than scholarship and they even mock scholarly elementalists), from what I recall off-hand. But the Spirits of the Wild aren't exactly patrons of professions unlike the Six Gods.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    In Ghosts of Ascalon, this is also remarked upon with how every race but sylvari view necromancy as at least creepy, when Killeen commands a fresh Ebon Vanguard corpse without asking anyone.

    It was pretty much just the humans and norn in GoA. Kranxx and Ember both had a fairly practical attitude towards it, with Ember even saying that using the woman's corpse to do some good was a good way to honour her life.

    Of course, Ember is Ash Legion, so her attitude might not match that of Iron or Blood charr.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

    That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2018

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

    That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

    Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.

    And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

    That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

    Ghosts of Ascalon shows that the attitude still remains.

    It is worth noting, however, that there is nothing actively preventing norn from becoming necromancers (maybe they're less magically proficient as a culture, but that's hard to say for sure). Norn don't like the idea of they or people they know being animated as minions, but since norn don't believe in guilt by association, a norn necromancer who doesn't do that would be fine. Avarr was a bounty target because he did.

    Numbers, however, are an indicator. ArenaNet has indicated that while they don't put restrictions on PCs, they know that certain race/profession combinations are more common than others and account for this in NPC placement, with the lowest category being 'only use this combination if you have a reason for it'. The rarity of norn necromancers seems to indicate that they're in that category.

    (Note that it's not a perfect indicator, since we do know that there are things that exist that aren't shown ingame. Like Seraph who aren't heavy armour professions.)

  • This is an interesting discussion, but as a player I'd approach this completely differently. The game is deliberately designed so that any race and profession combination is valid, both mechanically and in lore (which is perhaps part of why you can't play as a Monk or Dervish - although there were non-Human Monks and Dervishes in GW1). To me, how common different professions are amongst certain races isn't so important, since your character is supposed to be exceptional anyway, and an unusual combination could inform a more interesting character design.

    So personally, I would actually decide based on which armour and weapons choices I think look good with particular races. This is particularly relevant if there are cultural armour sets you want to use. Recently whenever I've made a new character, I've taken them to the bank as soon as possible and previewed things in the wardrobe to make sure there's an armour and weapons combination that I like the look of. I didn't do this at the beginning, and in hindsight I would have chosen different professions for a couple of my early characters, based on the armour sets that they can get.

    Of course, this is more to do with which races and professions (I think) go together aesthetically, rather than thematically. But thematically I can imagine pretty much any combination working. The only thing I struggle with is some of the Revenant legends: I can imagine any of the five races invoking Glint, and most of them invoking Jalis and Ventari - but I find it hard to imagine a non-human deciding to invoke Shiro, or anyone at all invoking Mallyx the Unyielding...

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:
    The only thing I struggle with is some of the Revenant legends: I can imagine any of the five races invoking Glint, and most of them invoking Jalis and Ventari - but I find it hard to imagine a non-human deciding to invoke Shiro, or anyone at all invoking Mallyx the Unyielding...

    Revenant is an interesting case: intuitively, for instance, I would expect charr to be the most anti-revenant, since the allied charr legions are all about having independence from supernatural entities and revenant is about, well, channeling the power of supernatural entities. The fact that Rytlock was the first seems to have ameliorated it, but I was expecting Rytlock coming back as a revenant to have more of an effect on his standing among the legions than them just wanting to get his story.

    From an intuitive basis, I'd expect norn and humans to probably be the most interested in being revenants (core revenants, anyway).

    Norn have their attitude of the legend being more important than whether the entity is viewed as a hero or villain, or even who's legend it is. Revenant legends are all entities that have had such an impact that their legend has been mirrored in the Mists: I can easily see norn going "I want a piece of that!" and becoming revenants.

    For human revenants, I see it as mostly being a "reverence of Kormir" thing. Worshippers of Kormir might see wrestling with the echo of Mallyx as a holy rite, leading to better understanding of the trials that Kormir faced.

    For other races... in a lot of cases, it probably comes down to a question of practicality. Sylvari are curious, so they might feel pulled towards assuming legends outside what you would normally expect a sylvari to be drawn to purely to satisfy that curiosity. Ventari would naturally be popular, and the heroism of Jalis and Glint, but I could also see the fallen hero of Shiro as being of interest to the Arthurian-mythos-inspired sylvari. Post-Mordremoth, they might even feel a certain kinship with Shiro, once a hero, but manipulated into becoming a villain.

    An asura historian might have a similar attitude, or a scholar focusing on the Mists might become a revenant as a means of studying the Mists firsthand, and every legend is a new point of data, however distasteful that legend's actions might have been in life.

    A charr revenant channeling Mallyx or even Shiro might even take a certain grim satisfaction in the irony chaining to his or her will the echoes of beings that were once generals of the god who used the charr as puppets... or they might just view it through a lens of pure practicality.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

    That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

    Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.

    And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.

    I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭

    You forgot Norn ranger xD
    All clothies and engi fit great for Asura.

  • Short answer:

    Human Elementalist
    Sylvari Warrior
    Asura Guardian
    Norn Thief
    Charr Mesmer

  • @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

    That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

    Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.

    And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.

    I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.

    I never denied a relation between Raven and necromancy. However, I would hardly say that the havroun of the patron spirit of the dead being a necromancer is proof that they're not seen strangely or in poor light in general. Obviously not all necromancers are "all that strange" but that doesn't affect how people view things in general.

    Just because someone in a position of power is associated with something related to that position of power, doesn't mean that association isn't viewed with distrust. It's a fallacious argument to claim otherwise.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

    That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

    Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.

    And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.

    I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.

    I never denied a relation between Raven and necromancy. However, I would hardly say that the havroun of the patron spirit of the dead being a necromancer is proof that they're not seen strangely or in poor light in general. Obviously not all necromancers are "all that strange" but that doesn't affect how people view things in general.

    Just because someone in a position of power is associated with something related to that position of power, doesn't mean that association isn't viewed with distrust. It's a fallacious argument to claim otherwise.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

    That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

    Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.

    And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.

    I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.

    I never denied a relation between Raven and necromancy. However, I would hardly say that the havroun of the patron spirit of the dead being a necromancer is proof that they're not seen strangely or in poor light in general. Obviously not all necromancers are "all that strange" but that doesn't affect how people view things in general.

    Just because someone in a position of power is associated with something related to that position of power, doesn't mean that association isn't viewed with distrust. It's a fallacious argument to claim otherwise.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

    That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

    Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.

    And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.

    I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.

    I never denied a relation between Raven and necromancy. However, I would hardly say that the havroun of the patron spirit of the dead being a necromancer is proof that they're not seen strangely or in poor light in general. Obviously not all necromancers are "all that strange" but that doesn't affect how people view things in general.

    Just because someone in a position of power is associated with something related to that position of power, doesn't mean that association isn't viewed with distrust. It's a fallacious argument to claim otherwise.

    Indeed, but there is an obvious correlation between positions that carry a certain prestige in a society that makes them unable to be adquired by certain individuals that don't have at least some amount of support by the population.- Havroun is probably one of the most prestigious titles there can be among people as individualistic as norn, which means that if Necromancers were so badly seen as you try to put it, it would simply be impossible.

    Also, reading back Ghosts of Ascalon (aside from noticing the amount of outdated information that makes it a questionable source for canon) I also noticed that such a view is only valid with Necromancers that bind the spirits to their abominations ala Joko. Most Necromancers nowdays don't do that.- Which stands a reason why that doesn't happen anymore. Certainly if someone did it would be seen with suspicion, but it's not usual.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

    That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

    Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.

    And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.

    I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.

    Most priests of Grenth are necromancers, and humans being disturbed by necromancers has been established multiple times in the franchise. Being a priest-equivalent of the Spirit of the Wild associated with death doesn't exactly say anything about the attitude of the norn towards necromancers in general, especially since havrouns aren't exactly chosen by popular vote.

    And at the bottom line, the fact still remains that we don't see very many norn necromancers. Each one that's been mentioned follows the "only if there's a story reason for them to be a necromancer" rule.

  • Genesis.8572Genesis.8572 Member ✭✭✭

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:
    I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.

    Raven is associated with the Dead and the Underworld but that does not mean that Necromancy is trusted or respected by Norns. More importantly, it doesn't make Norn Necros common. Havrouns and shamans who would dedicate themselves to the Spirits or even just Raven are a relatively rare breed of norn society.

    There are a number of priests of Grenth (i.e., positions of social prominence) but that does not mean that humans are all snuggles with necromancy.

    For the record, do you play a Norn Necromancer?

  • @Genesis.8572 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:
    I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.

    Raven is associated with the Dead and the Underworld but that does not mean that Necromancy is trusted or respected by Norns. More importantly, it doesn't make Norn Necros common. Havrouns and shamans who would dedicate themselves to the Spirits or even just Raven are a relatively rare breed of norn society.

    There are a number of priests of Grenth (i.e., positions of social prominence) but that does not mean that humans are all snuggles with necromancy.

    For the record, do you play a Norn Necromancer?

    We have seen Norn necros, which, for me at least implies there is at least some level of acceptance for them (In general, we really don't see that many general bad views about necromancers EXCEPT in the cases where they raise minions by binding souls ala Joko, which is where the stigma really plays) And that Raven has an association with Necromancers implies there is a level of acceptance, specially if it comes from the Spirits the norn so much revere. "A Spirit of Legend" straight out says that the Shamans are embodiments of the values the Spirits teach and that they are respected as teachers by their peers. How could you be a teacher if you are not respected? Aside from that, A Spirit of Legend also bluntly states that not even in cases where there is a massive disdain against a single group (I.E Svanir) the Norn instantly refuse them, they value the individual first. Which is another point against this.

    Also, there are some instances where humans are rather okay with Necromancy. Marjory Delaqua served the Ministry Guard which is mostly a position as a prestigious bodyguard and is married to a noblewoman. I couldn't find it right now but there are several dialogues in Divinity's Reach with a kid who wants to become a Necromancer when he/she grows up, and there is also this where a nobleman tries to teach Necromancy to his child https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenth_Low_Road

    And no, I feel a little offended at the question but no, I play a norn warrior and another norn ranger.

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.

    That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.

    Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.

    And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.

    I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.

    Most priests of Grenth are necromancers, and humans being disturbed by necromancers has been established multiple times in the franchise. Being a priest-equivalent of the Spirit of the Wild associated with death doesn't exactly say anything about the attitude of the norn towards necromancers in general, especially since havrouns aren't exactly chosen by popular vote.

    And at the bottom line, the fact still remains that we don't see very many norn necromancers. Each one that's been mentioned follows the "only if there's a story reason for them to be a necromancer" rule.

    See above. (Besides, there was really no reason for the Raven Havroun to be a Necromancer. Since that isn't even Raven's only facet. But I get it)

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2018

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:
    We have seen Norn necros, which, for me at least implies there is at least some level of acceptance for them

    We see plenty of groups in modern reality that are barely acceptable in modern society. Neonazis, for example. ISIS, KKK, the list goes on and on.

    Just because a group exists doesn't mean it isn't distrusted. And keep in mind norn mentality, where it's the deeds of the individual that matter. They let Sons of Svanir live inside Hoelbrak, but that doesn't mean they're not viewed with distrust or outright hatred.

    Besides, "a level of acceptance" is not the same as "not being distrusted, feared, hated, etc. by a large number of people."

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:
    Also, there are some instances where humans are rather okay with Necromancy. Marjory Delaqua served the Ministry Guard which is mostly a position as a prestigious bodyguard and is married to a noblewoman. I couldn't find it right now but there are several dialogues in Divinity's Reach with a kid who wants to become a Necromancer when he/she grows up, and there is also this where a nobleman tries to teach Necromancy to his child https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenth_Low_Road

    Marjory and Kasmeer aren't married, nor are Ministry Guards "mostly" prestigious. And I just checked, and there's only four voiced dialogues in DR which mention necromancers, the one you bring up (which is not at all close to a suggestion that necromancy is accepted; the kid could easily be saying they don't want to be a necromancer because they're viewed with distrust) and this one:

    Citizen: My sister’s getting married again.
    Citizen (2): Stranger things have happened. Like necromancy.
    Citizen: She’s marrying a bard, the guy with the pan flute who plays drinking songs.
    Citizen: I can accept the dead returning to life, but marrying a musician makes no sense whatsoever.
    https://tyriantomes.wordpress.com/2013/08/29/ossa-quarter/

    Which outright disses necromancy as strange and unusual. And:

    Citizen: Necromancer dress like freaks. They smell like freaks!
    Citizen (2): I wouldn’t be caught dead in one of those outfits.
    Citizen: Was that supposed to be a joke?
    Citizen (2): Maybe.
    https://tyriantomes.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/district-promenade/

    Which is yet another one that disses necromancers, calling them freaks. And then:

    Citizen: Of all the gods, I think I like Grenth the least.
    Citizen (2): Strange thing for a necromancer to say.
    Citizen: He’s just so morbid. Death, destruction, darkness- it’s all too depressing.
    Citizen (2): You may want to rethink your choice of profession.
    https://tyriantomes.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/the-high-roads/

    Which is a necromancer who thinks Grenth is too morbid.

    Four out of four dialogues in DR shows some level of distrust, dislike, or being creeped out factor by necromancy.

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:
    See above. (Besides, there was really no reason for the Raven Havroun to be a Necromancer. Since that isn't even Raven's only facet. But I get it)

    Its the main facet of Raven to be the one who guides norn spirits to their afterlives. And the only one to have that facet. It makes sense that some of his shamanhood would be necromancers, even if norn society views them strangely.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:
    We have seen Norn necros, which, for me at least implies there is at least some level of acceptance for them

    We see plenty of groups in modern reality that are barely acceptable in modern society. Neonazis, for example. ISIS, KKK, the list goes on and on.

    That's a bad example because we would never see a Neonazi as a Governor, for example.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    Just because a group exists doesn't mean it isn't distrusted. And keep in mind norn mentality, where it's the deeds of the individual that matter. They let Sons of Svanir live inside Hoelbrak, but that doesn't mean they're not viewed with distrust or outright hatred.

    Besides, "a level of acceptance" is not the same as "not being distrusted, feared, hated, etc. by a large number of people."

    Except it is. It's literally what it is.- A group that is not accepted by the bulk of society, for whatever reason, could never hope to get any kind of representation no matter their numbers or even importance unless they straight out force themselves above their peers.

    Besides once more this "distrust" to necromancer, which comes from a nobel that is so contradicted by current canon that it may as well not be canonical. Where is this wide distrust of necromaners when the Pact Marshal was one, or when a Ministry Guard was one? Even then, again, in Ghost of Ascalon it is strictly the act of binding souls of actual people to their undead bodies. Modern Necromancers now use their flesh contructs.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2018

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    We see plenty of groups in modern reality that are barely acceptable in modern society. Neonazis, for example. ISIS, KKK, the list goes on and on.

    That's a bad example because we would never see a Neonazi as a Governor, for example.

    The current POTUS had refused to deny a KKK member's support to the point of practically accepting it. That's close enough, if not worse, tbh.

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Just because a group exists doesn't mean it isn't distrusted. And keep in mind norn mentality, where it's the deeds of the individual that matter. They let Sons of Svanir live inside Hoelbrak, but that doesn't mean they're not viewed with distrust or outright hatred.

    Besides, "a level of acceptance" is not the same as "not being distrusted, feared, hated, etc. by a large number of people."

    Except it is. It's literally what it is.- A group that is not accepted by the bulk of society, for whatever reason, could never hope to get any kind of representation no matter their numbers or even importance unless they straight out force themselves above their peers.

    That's only true in a full fledged democracy. Which none of our Tyrian societies are. Hell, you cannot even make that claim for the USA due to its capatilistic nature, which allows various people with unaccepted tendencies and beliefs to rise to positions of economic power.

    Havrouns, for example, are chosen by the Spirits of the Wild themselves. Not by the norn. The norn collective opinion, such that it is, or even norn individual opinion means jack kitten in the face of Raven going "yo dude, you may be a necromancer, but I am only gonna channel my power through you, k? K." Accepted or not, even if the person is viled, he's the havroun now and the other norn gotta deal with it.

    And with human noble necromancers, their nobility comes from lineage and wealth. It'd take a small conspiracy or public defacing to revoke their nobility, because just like when we have rapists and racists as judges or CEOs today, people can't just strip others of power "just because they're weird."

    @JTHMRulez.9378 said:
    Besides once more this "distrust" to necromancer, which comes from a nobel that is so contradicted by current canon that it may as well not be canonical. Where is this wide distrust of necromaners when the Pact Marshal was one, or when a Ministry Guard was one? Even then, again, in Ghost of Ascalon it is strictly the act of binding souls of actual people to their undead bodies. Modern Necromancers now use their flesh contructs.

    I made an edit to my previous comment about that bit I didn't respond to immediately. To restate:

    Marjory and Kasmeer aren't married, nor are Ministry Guards "mostly" prestigious. And I just checked, and there's only four voiced dialogues in DR which mention necromancers, the one you bring up (which is not at all close to a suggestion that necromancy is accepted; the kid could easily be saying they don't want to be a necromancer because they're viewed with distrust) and this one:

    Citizen: My sister’s getting married again.
    Citizen (2): Stranger things have happened. Like necromancy.
    Citizen: She’s marrying a bard, the guy with the pan flute who plays drinking songs.
    Citizen: I can accept the dead returning to life, but marrying a musician makes no sense whatsoever.
    https://tyriantomes.wordpress.com/2013/08/29/ossa-quarter/

    Which outright disses necromancy as strange and unusual. And:

    Citizen: Necromancer dress like freaks. They smell like freaks!
    Citizen (2): I wouldn’t be caught dead in one of those outfits.
    Citizen: Was that supposed to be a joke?
    Citizen (2): Maybe.
    https://tyriantomes.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/district-promenade/

    Which is yet another one that disses necromancers, calling them freaks. And then:

    Citizen: Of all the gods, I think I like Grenth the least.
    Citizen (2): Strange thing for a necromancer to say.
    Citizen: He’s just so morbid. Death, destruction, darkness- it’s all too depressing.
    Citizen (2): You may want to rethink your choice of profession.
    https://tyriantomes.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/the-high-roads/

    Which is a necromancer who thinks Grenth is too morbid.

    Four out of four dialogues in DR shows some level of distrust, dislike, or being creeped out factor by necromancy.

    And about Trahearne:

    Lionguard: Is that Trahearne up there, talking to Commander Talon? What do you think he wants?
    Lionguard: Trahearne, the necromancer? Comes through here every few months on his way to Orr. That guy creeps me out.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Battle_of_Claw_Island#Dialogue

    The very first interaction non-sylvari get for Trahearne is that he creeps out a human Lionguard, who deals with risen all the time.

    Trahearne had long earned the respect of the mentors and Order leaders off-screen before the game, to the point where even if the grunts distrusted him it didn't matter even if they voiced it. And it would only be four out of five races that get creeped out, at best, and for one of those four it's more that he's a spellcaster. But at the time of his introduction to the time he proves himself trustworthy, everyone's too concerned about there being a risen horde and they know that Trahearne is a specialist on risen due to studying them for 20+ years to care that he's a creepy necromancer.

    Fear of risen overrode their distrust of necromancy when it came to Trahearne in the plot.

    As for distrust of Marjory: we never witness when she was a Ministry Guard; the best we have is The Last Straw which only shows her on a job where she was chosen solely because she was a necromancer. The only perspective we get a hint of is E, the ghost, and Henrick Baker who doesn't say much except being a smug kitten to Marjory the whole time. And we don't know how long those two were working together so he could have been long used to Marjory being a necromancer.

    And the only people who interacted with her prior to her becoming famous for killing Scarlet were Logan, who's used to weird kitten, Kasmeer, who had been working for Marjory for months before we met either, and Kiel during the investigation. And Marjory being a necromancer was never brought up to Kiel at the time. But Kiel acted skeptical towards Marjory the whole time until results were produced (not to mention that folks in LA are probably more used to non-standard stuff than others).

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One disconnect here is that I think that when we say "distrust", you're taking this as being a stronger level of distrust than we are.

    We're not talking about an 'all necromancers are evil' level of distrust, or even a 'you can't trust a necromancer' level of distrust.

    Instead... let's consider an analogy. Let's say you've got someone with a habit of walking around with an Uzi on their belt.

    If it's someone you know and trust as an individual, then it doesn't really matter to you that they have a habit of always having a sub-machine gun. You know they're not going to do the wrong thing with it.

    If it's someone who you don't know... well, they're probably not going to spontaneously pull it out and start shooting into the crowd. But you never know. It's a possibility. So unless you have nerves of steel, you're probably going to keep a wary eye on them and not get too close just in case.

    Now, the same can be said of other spellcasters such as elementalists and mesmers: a point that Dougal makes, in fact. However, there is one distinction:

    Necromancy, and necromancy-adjacent magics, have been used to do a lot of bad stuff in the Guild Wars universe. Palawa Joko, Khilbron, the Foefire, Zhaitan... and that's just the big ones, there are plenty of less prominent examples of necromancers going bad. Additionally, while the ethical position regarding undead seems to be that necrominions are simply tools while binding a soul into an undead is an abomination, the common civilian probably isn't going to immediately recognise the difference between a necrominion and another kind of undead. Furthermore, even sanctioned forms of necromancy are still drawing power from death, and someone dealing with a necromancer who they don't know might well be thinking that said necromancer might be considering what their life force might taste like or what form of minion the necromancer could make out of them (elementalists and mesmers get little benefit from killing people to experiment on their remains, after all). And even the most well-behaved necromancer is still a little creepy or even gruesome in the eyes of most.

    Granted, elementalists and mesmers are also dangerous, but there isn't that weight of history behind them. A necromancer is like someone walking around with an Uzi in a place where there have been a few mass shootings lately, possibly even one in the last few days where the perpetrator got away with their identity still hidden. Other spellcasters, on the other hand, are more like someone walking around with an Uzi in a place where gun laws allow that but there is no history of shootings. Sure, they're technically just as dangerous, but there's no reason to think that they're actually going to do anything threatening.

    All this means that it is certainly possible for a necromancer to prove themselves and raise to high positions - especially in positions where having the skills of a necromancer are valuable and/or in organisations where necromancers are likely to dominate and people outside the organisation have little say in who gets promoted, such as the clergy-equivalent of death-related religious figures. However, for necromancers that have yet to achieve that beyond-reproach status, it's just that much harder to prove themselves when everybody's looking at you as possibly being the next Verata or Avarr, and cultural biases will discourage people from studying necromancy unless they're really sure that's what they want to do.

    And in all this, there's still the bottom line of: it's just not a combination we see often.

  • Aneirin Cadwall.9126Aneirin Cadwall.9126 Member ✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @Rise.8259 said:
    I would eventually like to experience the quest and zone content of all five races from the start. I would also like to eventually have one of each profession. So I was wondering what the best options for pairing them together would be.

    ...

    And as much as I like the style of humans, I dont want that to be the only content I experience.

    I currently have a human engineer around level 60, human thief around level 25, and human guardian around level 10. I am hoping I didn't make a thematic mistake picking engineer on human instead of Chaar. But I would guess that Guardian and Thief go best on Human.

    I originally created my first character as a sylvari mesmer with the idea in mind that there are many hallucinogenic plants in the real world. The idea made sense. What better profession for a newly-borne sentient plant? And it continued to make sense as I played through HoT and learned more about 'the jungle dragon' and what sylvari are. Then there are, of course, the iboga... It's felt like I made a lot of correct choices for my main. 😉 lol.

  • I've always been very into carefully choosing professions in this way, so I'll just explain my roster:

    Human Guardian:

    I think most agree with this fit, so I won't say much, just that I envision him as a high-ranking Seraph.

    Charr Engineer:

    This is also a classic, but I really prefer the Holosmith aesthetic, so I put my own twist on it lorewise. My charr has the Flame Legion shaman for a father storyline, and I imagine that he became an Iron Legion engineer partly as backlash to his disgraced father. But flame and heat are as central to technology as to magic, so I imagine my charr, being a very scholarly engineer, becoming more and more curious about the more ethereal aspects of technology, heat, and energy, eventually joining the Durmand Priory. The partial redemption of his father and exposure to magic at the Priory eventually leads to my charr becoming a Holosmith, as a sort of 'third way'. His name is Mongolian for Sunrise.

    Sylvari Necromancer:

    Roots, rotting compost, damp soil, fungi, curiosity, and the influence of the Nightmare court on the Dream. I think Sylvari make the most sense as 'non-evil' Necromancers, balancing growth with decay and Ventari's chivalry with the Nightmare Court's pragmatic selfishness. Sylvari understand the cycle of life and death in the forest.

    Norn Warrior:

    I have to admit, I wanted her to just be all-out female Norn Leeroy Jenkins. She's just kitten. I think over time she will become more spiritual and have a connection with the warriors in the Mists and the Spirits of the Wild, but right now she just drinks and kicks kitten and has a face tattoo.

    Asura Elementalist:

    Scholars of magic, after all. I play him pretty straight to stereotype.

    Human Mesmer:

    Another classic, I play her as royalty, but she was actually adopted by Krytan nobility and is an orphan of an Elonian refugee family. I think this fits well with conflicting accounts of Lyssa, as 'patron of the arts' and high society, but also as the God who lived with the Orrian people in the rural areas outside of Arah the longest, and was sad to leave.

    Sylvari Thief:

    I chose this one mostly because I think their thin and wiry build lends itself to Thief of all the melee classes. I actually intend to make this character a Daredevil eventually and play him mostly as a staff martial artist, scholarly dusk court Priory member. His name is Irish for wooden sword.

    Norn Ranger:

    I was really torn between Sylvari and Norn for my ranger. I might end up making both, but for now the design of the Druid specialization has pushed me toward Norn. The spells are very much 'celestial' druid rather than plant druid, and the staff is very Nordic. Also I imagine that, with the exception of the few plant creature pets, a Norn would have more of an affinity for the flesh and blood pets like bears and wolves than a Sylvari would.

    Charr Revenant:

    I was really torn between Norn and Charr for Revenant. Norn make perfect sense because they already have a connection to the Mists and their ancestors. But the Revenant class was basically invented by a Charr. I have to admit that I went for Charr mostly on aesthetics and the fact that I already had two Norn characters, and I'm still working on making it work thematically. But I imagine an Ash Legion soldier and Whispers agent battling ghosts in ancient ruins her whole life might start to get some ideas...

  • dusanyu.4057dusanyu.4057 Member ✭✭✭

    Asura spell breaker works very well, Lore states that Spell breakers Cut the currents of magic around a enemy to disrupt there skills That calm meditative feneess withs well with the whole Asuran "I am smarter than you and i am going to prove it by toying with you" attitude they have (same reason Mesmer were a common thing amongs Asura in GW1) and sb feels very GW1 Mesmer.

    you can find lore ways to make all of the professions to work with any of the races.

  • Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭
    edited October 21, 2018

    For Norns I look to their spirit animal skills
    Bear = warrior
    Wolf = guardian, support the pack
    Snow Leopard = thief
    Raven = Mesmer, Necro and Rev

    Any animal spirit fit with Ranger

    Also Norn Shamans can go into the mist. So a Norn Rev works.

    At game launch I didn’t know any lore yet. I made a Snow Leopard Ele. She focused on ice and stone powers. Snow = ice and well Norns live on snowy mountains. I also didn’t know about rotations yet! She died a lot! Anyway she evolved but i still love her bitter cold, stony origin.

    When the Nevermore legendary came out I created a Norn Raven Necro just for the staff. I saw debate in other comments about the suitability of a Norn raven necro. Nevermore makes me feel it is squarely in the lore cannon. ( or at least my role play.)

    PS: don’t forget the Norn Necro in Deathroot Shack. He is one of the first Necro NPCs I remember meeting

  • For Charr I look at their legion
    Blood = warrior
    Ash = thief
    Iron = engi

    I play my Ele Charr as “adopted” into Blood but her Sire was the disgraced Flame Legion Shaman. She is trying to make Flame great again.

  • Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭
    edited October 21, 2018

    Ausra I look at their invention in personal story
    Weather control device = Ele
    Infinity Ball = Mesmer (Chrono, time is an illusion)
    Golem = Engi and necromancy is closely related to Golemancy

    You can also adapt the colleges. You can bend any of them to fit any personality. However I think Guardians go best with the steady and stable Statics

    Any soldier class with a Peacemaker theme.

    And of course any scholar class.

    I even have a Ranger Asura. He is a zoologist.

    My Doctor Spooki is a female Dr Frankenstein. She loves making dead minions and study the underworld.

    Asurans can study anything even the art of war.

  • Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭
    edited October 21, 2018

    Sylvari I go with the cycle of the day.
    Noon are fighters = soldier class
    Dusk like to study = scholar class
    Night seems to fit with thief, rev and necro
    Because I don’t know where else to put them I use dawn for Engi and Ranger

    Also the Sylvari have the Dream which I think is connected to the physical world being an illusion and the dream is the “real” world. So any birth cycle fits Mesmer

    Also any Sylvari with Ranger especially the two plant based pets and Druid skills.

  • @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    In Ghosts of Ascalon, this is also remarked upon with how every race but sylvari view necromancy as at least creepy, when Killeen commands a fresh Ebon Vanguard corpse without asking anyone.

    It was pretty much just the humans and norn in GoA. Kranxx and Ember both had a fairly practical attitude towards it, with Ember even saying that using the woman's corpse to do some good was a good way to honour her life.

    Of course, Ember is Ash Legion, so her attitude might not match that of Iron or Blood charr.

    and in the same book, Killeen explained that for sylvari necromancy isn't special. Just another magical offshoot - and then compares it to asuran golemancy. Gullik is not shocked or creeped by Killeen raising Wynne - he is a bit taken aback by her lack of respect for the dead. Which might be far spread in norn society.

  • Manpag.6421Manpag.6421 Member ✭✭✭

    Most races have built-in reasons as to why an 'odd fit' still works. Humans and Sylvari are both very diverse. Despite some combinations that are underused, the Spirits of the Wild make anything make sense for the Norn, even caster/stealthy professions (all of which falls under Raven's blessings). People see Charr as being too bulky to be thieves, despite having a whole legion devoted to stealth (and forgetting that thieves in the GW universe are actually magic users, for both their stealth and shadow-stepping). Asura have enough technology to support any role, even a more martial one.

  • There is only one race, the human race. Checkmate bigot.

    _We must secure the existence of our Quaggans and a future for Quaggan children. _

  • There are ascalonians, krytans, canthans and elonians. Those are RACES. 4 Races.
    Sylvari, Norn, Charr, Asura, Humans are SPECIES.

    Get it right plox.

  • @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    There are ascalonians, krytans, canthans and elonians. Those are RACES. 4 Races.
    Sylvari, Norn, Charr, Asura, Humans are SPECIES.

    Get it right plox.

    You are biologically correct.
    Sadly, the fantasy genre has the tendency to name playable groups races. If I'm not mistaken, this stems from early fantasy (Tolkien? Beren and Lúthien come to mind.), where humans and elves could procreate, creating fertile progeny, which would make elves a part of a wider humanoid species.
    But then Dungeons and Dragons went crazy and allowed everything to mix, causing a giant headache to all geneticists, pondering how a half lizardman is even remotely possible. Or half dragons. How can a large scaled winged creature with six limbs even be remotely compatible to a small four limb mammal?

    Anyway, the developers of GW2 decided to make their "races" proper species. Norn are not compatible with humans despite superficial similarities. One group has evolved from giant, the others come from a different world. Asura are subterranean creatures and charr are felines with horns. There must be some evolutionary reason for the horns, but modern charr seem use horns as a form of self expression. And sylvari are the fruits of the pale tree, so they're something else entirely.

  • @Castigator.3470 said:
    But then Dungeons and Dragons went crazy and allowed everything to mix, causing a giant headache to all geneticists, pondering how a half lizardman is even remotely possible. Or half dragons. How can a large scaled winged creature with six limbs even be remotely compatible to a small four limb mammal?

    Cuz Magic obviously

    Same goes with H.Protter. Hairgrids Dad was a "small" guy of maybe1.7meter? and the woman he used to produce his offspring was at least 3 times bigger than that propably even more? yes yes the number of limbs is the same but just imagining how that could have worked out is pretty disgusting ...

  • I think the most 'obvious' combinations have already been summed up.

    The one I enjoy the most is definitely Charr Guardian, my favorite race combined with my favorite profession :)
    I love it because it's not too obvious but lore speaking it makes sense: the Iron Legion has a unit called Adamant Guard, where we can find Guardians. I like to imagine my Charr as a dedicated Adamant Guard ^-^

  • Musaroxy.2874Musaroxy.2874 Member ✭✭✭

    I wanted to point out one common misconception that seems to be popping up a lot here, which is that Necromancy is a sort've taboo among the races of Tyria. It's quite to the contrary in fact. Despite the common running theme of facing off against undead creatures, as long as you understand common sense, you're fine. Humans have a respect for Necromancy stemming from one of their very Gods having a connection to it. It's not appropriate to walk around someone's corpse as a crash dummy, as seen in Ghosts of Ascalon, but there's no outright shying away from it. (For Human Necromancers see Priests/Priestesses of Grenth, Exemplar Kerida, Priestess Rhie, ect) Sylvari, while very connected into nature, are a naturally curious race, and since the opposite of life, something they're surrounded with, is death, many of them have an immense fascination with it, and how it works. (This also applies to other professions that aren't nature-themed, because they are curious and will try anything.) (For Sylvari Necromancers, see Trahearne, Killeen, various Nightmare Court NPCs, ect.) Charr are also good candidates for Necromancy. Despite magic not being a popular choice for them due to their past with the Flame Legion, Necromancers are often seen among the Ash Legion. Along side this, it makes sense for them to look into such arts, due to the constant barrage of Ghosts they face in their homelands. (For Charr Necromancers, see Nameless Ash Legion NPCs, ect, I don't know many of the Charr NPCs sorry.) Norn also have ties to Necromancy, due to their connection to Raven, which is stated very well by JTHMRulez.9378 above. (For Norn Necromancers, see the NPC literally named Necromancer, Raven Shamans, ect.) Then finally we have the Asura, who, due to their diverse ways of scientific discovery, are perfectly suited for Necromancy. The art of undeath meshes greatly with their colder methodologies. We have Asura Necromancers going back to GW1. (Oola being the number 1 example, and quite possibly Blimm, since despite his profession as a Warrior in GW1, he delved heavily into "Necromantic Golemancy". A similar venture to Oola's famed work.)
    This Necro-centered post can really be applied to any profession too, because there's really not a whole lot lore-wise that makes a certain profession fit a certain race more, aside from obvious surface connections like Ash Legion -> Thief, and Sylvari -> Ranger. If you're new, it's really best to just pick whichever profession and race combo you like best.

    "You know what they say: Curiosity pruned the Sylvari."

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Genesis.8572 said:
    Charr: Charr Engineer is incredibly iconic. Charr invented the engineering profession and its aesthetics. Charr questing centers around the Black Citadel and Ascalon, which are controlled by the engineering-focused Iron Legion. Warrior is also a good fit, but playing the Iron Legion storyline as an engineer is one of the few points in the personal story where a profession gets to play to their profession's fantasy.

    Agree 100%. If you've never created a Charr engineer, do it just for the LV10 personal story quest - it's very fun.

    @Zeusx.2906 said:
    I just recently got into GW2

    Welcome!

    @Zeusx.2906 said:
    I was thinking Asura engineer but the thing is the they should be able to come up with better weaponry being all smart like that. Yeah i dont know about Asura. Might just ignore Asura and Sylvari.

    Ah, but that is where weapon skins come in. Forgetting any Gem Store skins, you don't get much more "tech" looking than:
    this rifle - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Azure_Railgun
    these pistols - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Asuran_Pistol + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyphic_Pistol_Skin

  • Narcemus.1348Narcemus.1348 Member ✭✭✭

    @Musaroxy.2874 said:
    I wanted to point out one common misconception that seems to be popping up a lot here, which is that Necromancy is a sort've taboo among the races of Tyria. It's quite to the contrary in fact. Despite the common running theme of facing off against undead creatures, as long as you understand common sense, you're fine. Humans have a respect for Necromancy stemming from one of their very Gods having a connection to it. It's not appropriate to walk around someone's corpse as a crash dummy, as seen in Ghosts of Ascalon, but there's no outright shying away from it. (For Human Necromancers see Priests/Priestesses of Grenth, Exemplar Kerida, Priestess Rhie, ect) Sylvari, while very connected into nature, are a naturally curious race, and since the opposite of life, something they're surrounded with, is death, many of them have an immense fascination with it, and how it works. (This also applies to other professions that aren't nature-themed, because they are curious and will try anything.) (For Sylvari Necromancers, see Trahearne, Killeen, various Nightmare Court NPCs, ect.) Charr are also good candidates for Necromancy. Despite magic not being a popular choice for them due to their past with the Flame Legion, Necromancers are often seen among the Ash Legion. Along side this, it makes sense for them to look into such arts, due to the constant barrage of Ghosts they face in their homelands. (For Charr Necromancers, see Nameless Ash Legion NPCs, ect, I don't know many of the Charr NPCs sorry.) Norn also have ties to Necromancy, due to their connection to Raven, which is stated very well by JTHMRulez.9378 above. (For Norn Necromancers, see the NPC literally named Necromancer, Raven Shamans, ect.) Then finally we have the Asura, who, due to their diverse ways of scientific discovery, are perfectly suited for Necromancy. The art of undeath meshes greatly with their colder methodologies. We have Asura Necromancers going back to GW1. (Oola being the number 1 example, and quite possibly Blimm, since despite his profession as a Warrior in GW1, he delved heavily into "Necromantic Golemancy". A similar venture to Oola's famed work.)
    This Necro-centered post can really be applied to any profession too, because there's really not a whole lot lore-wise that makes a certain profession fit a certain race more, aside from obvious surface connections like Ash Legion -> Thief, and Sylvari -> Ranger. If you're new, it's really best to just pick whichever profession and race combo you like best.

    While I agree with you, being a necro main in both games, necromancers have always been held at arms length from society. At least among heroes. Not because it is seen as being evil, but because it is creepy an misunderstood. I mean the town crier you first talk to in Pre Searing Ascalon as a necro speaks to you like this. Sadly I cannot find it on the dialogue on the wiki, but I feel like it was something along the lines of "Please don't give me some disease or something" or "Please don't Curse me".

  • DietPepsi.4371DietPepsi.4371 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2018

    I'll to stick to a rule of three:

    Human: Elementalist, Guardian, thief
    Norn: Warrior, Ranger, Guardian
    Asura: Engineer, Elementalist, Necro
    Sylvari: Elementalist, Mesmer, Ranger
    Charr: Warrior, Engineer, Ranger

    All: Revenant

    You stand to benefit more from making friends than you do making enemies.

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭

    I thought humans were nothing without their beloved mesmers.

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • For the humans in this game, I always though of this: Some proffessions seems tied with their gods.

    For exemple,
    Warrior - Balthazar
    Guardian - Dwayna
    Revenant - N/A
    Ranger - Melandru
    Thief - N/A
    Engineer - N/A
    Mesmer- Lyssa
    Elementalist - N/A
    Necromancer - Grenth

    For N/A, I didn't found them though... Only thing minght be Abbaddon or Kormir.

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