Is it reallt the herald you wanted reworked?

Herald's rework came first probably because it's of smaller scope. We're apparently getting just a F2 change, a traitline rework and underwater access. Possibly a few other number adjustments too.

Renegade would needs bigger changes. I bet they're working on it as well, it's just not ready yet.

I am speaking out of pure selfishness on this, but Renegade is such a mess that I have abandoned hope and care for it. I am actually very happy that they chose Herald to focus on for this, but it did surprise me a bit that they chose it over Renegade.

It is understandable for them to make herald reworked.

Renegade feels bad for u guys cause everything on other classes is overlly aoe hyped and spam based lol...Maybe ad some block or dodge on its elite spec but rather than that we have decent swap for it.

I want many Specs reworked.ScrapperBerserkerHeraldRenegade....

Were is the option of: idc atleast they considered change.

I am happy about this change and especially the overall F2 change. We all wanted that since Hot.

Glint is my waifu so yes, I'll take a rework for Herald over Renegade atm. ;)Renegade's gonna need a lot more change than Herald would....it may need a straight up re-design in some areas..

@"InsaneQR.7412" said:Were is the option of: idc atleast they considered change.

I am happy about this change and especially the overall F2 change. We all wanted that since Hot.

"we all" did not necessarily want that. Personally I like Herald as is and there are others who feel the same. There are plenty of ways that they could have made Herald more competitive without a huge rework. Time will tell if this rework ends up good or not, but given their track record with mesmer and deadeye it's either going to be insanely OP or UP and rife with bugs. I'm leaning towards the latter, honestly, from what they've released so far. I want it to be good, but I don't have faith in them due to many of their past revenant changes

I got tired of being support garbage with other specs, so I migrated to condition renegade. is funny and fits the theme of a violent renegade. so they do whatever they want with a herald, I do not care.

Herald needed attention badly, because core revenant was designed around the herald traitline. With a quite obsessive focus on boonfarting.

You forgot the 3rd option: "Yes, we wanted the Herald reworked AND also Renegade".

Potentially bad change for PvP/WvW (being OP or UP are both as bad) while doing little for the PvE "speed clear raiding meta". I agree with @LucianTheAngelic.7054

I liked Renegade more than I did Herald and thus would have liked Renegade touched up instead. I only use Herald in PvP precisely because of Renegade's shortcomings.

Where is the “both were needed” option?

@"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:Where is the “both were needed” option?

or the ... "whatever " option?

I think Renegade should have been first, but maybe it's still coming and just requires more work. I'm just happy they're giving Rev attention.

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:Where is the “both were needed” option?

Would that be the same as “no changes at all needed”?

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:Where is the “both were needed” option?

more the "no matter which one as long as something is done"

This a Yes and No. I want all aspects of Revenant reworked, from Core, to Herald, to Ren. All of it. So yes and No, because Herald wouldnt have been top of that order. I prefer Core gets Revamped so I can have more fun playing other builds.

Is it just me who doesn't care about renegades because i don't like charrs?

I mean i know it is racism but it is against pixels so i guess it doesn't count right?

@"Sorem.9157" said:Is it just me who doesn't care about renegades because i don't like charrs?

I mean i know it is racism but it is against pixels so i guess it doesn't count right?

I dislike Charr as well, and wouldn't mind if they replace Kala when they rework the specializations, or at the very least change the look of the spirits to be more like the one's from the original game.

@Sorem.9157 said:Is it just me who doesn't care about renegades because i don't like charrs?

I mean i know it is racism but it is against pixels so i guess it doesn't count right?

I feel the same way. The visual effects they gave are nice, but I'm just not a fan. It's how I feel about ranger spirits too. Wish they were all wisps of energy instead.

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@Sorem.9157 said:Is it just me who doesn't care about renegades because i don't like charrs?

I mean i know it is racism but it is against pixels so i guess it doesn't count right?

Yep, i feel ya. It just makes you not want to play it. Idk, i feel like ArenaNet should have known that something like that could cause a reaction, Charrs are afterall the least played race of all. They are just unappealing to the community as a whole. The fact that the spec is also a mess just doesn't help.

@Elric.4713 said:

@Sorem.9157 said:Is it just me who doesn't care about renegades because i don't like charrs?

I mean i know it is racism but it is against pixels so i guess it doesn't count right?

That is actually a great suggestion imo :) You don't even need to change too much about the spec and it will be much more likable.

Dose the rev even need it? Yes renegade needs work badly but there are a lot of other classes that are simply not used any more core and HoT they need real work as they are effectually not in the game (i guess you can say renegade is in the same boat.)

NOTE: I am not a PvP or WvW player, I play PvE 99% of the time so any issues/strengths unique to those gamemodes I am mostly not considering in this post.

A lot of people want Renegade reworked which is valid since it has its own issues, but Herald seriously needed some love. Despite Glint seemingly being a support legend, Herald brings no group healing aside from shield skill 4, and cannot supply a party with more than 13-15 might. The Herald trait line has always been a mess and even with a few changes over the years (e.g. adding a damage increase to Bolster Fortifications) there isn't much room for synergy and creativity in builds.

The reason that there's this lack of synergy is because Herald's traits do not compliment its mechanics at all. Vigorous Persistence is the only trait in Herald that interacts with upkeeps, despite all of the Glint skills and the additional profession mechanic (Facet of Nature) being upkeeps. Even then, Vigorous Persistence is a minor, meaning if you take Herald it's automatically given to you, and gives endurance regeneration for some reason even though the elite spec does not have any other dodge related traits/mechanics. This is a running theme throughout Herald unfortunately. Swift Gale and Harmonize Continuity both interact with stun breaks even though Herald itself brings 1 stun break to Revenant that is only available by consuming one of its most useful skills (Facet of Darkness). Enhanced Bulwark (also bonus point on this one since it does not even have its own trait icon, sharing one with Crystal Harbinger) interacts with stability despite Herald bringing no stability to Revenant.

On top of the lack of synergy in some traits, the traits that do attempt to bolster Herald's abilities are clunky or ineffective. Shared Empowerment, even at 100% boon duration and with Facet of Strength active, does not allow Herald to stack might as effectively as other professions even when they do not need 100% boon duration to do so. Soothing Bastion seems like a good support choice, but can lock you into a Crystal Hibernation in crucial moments and the method of boon duration increase is clunky (adding 2 seconds to boons already on allies when a shield skill, which have decent cooldowns and hefty energy costs, is used is not very interesting or potent for a grandmaster trait).

Finally, Herald does not synergize well with the core legends at all. Playing a Ventari/Glint support? You lose all group healing capability aside from weapon skills and giving regen to allies when you swap out of Ventari. Playing a Mallyx/Glint condi dps? You are again limited to only weapon skills and one utility skill (Elemental Blast) for damaging condi application. Shiro/Glint work okay together, but mostly because of the flat damage increase you get from Elder's Force and Bolster Fortifications and not because of anything Glint's stance will do for you specifically.

Renegade certainly has issues with traits, shortbow, and the warband skills, but it is not in as bad of a place as Herald is.

Now I'm aware that in WvW (and maybe PvP?) that Herald does well because of Incensed Response and Facet of Darkness working well together for solo fights. However, one trait synergy between Invocation and Herald working well in a certain scenario in a certain gamemode is not indicative of a well-balanced and rounded elite spec.

Anyways that's just my opinion on why Herald desperately needs this. As a big Revenant fan I'd love for Renegade to get some love in the future, but Herald's rework is long overdue.