Normalizing Base HP

Is it time to normalize base hp across all professions? The disparity between Damaging/Supporting/Brawling professions has long since been done away with as power-creep started growing. I don't think there is any reason that some professions should have 11k base hp, while others get 15k, and two get 19k. It made sense when the two 19khp professions did less damage/utility than the rest, and the four 15khp professions were more utility than damage, and the 3 11khp professions were more damage than utility. But now that everything is so powerful, and utility, damage, or both were largely spread out among all professions - I don't see that it is fair to keep the base-HP so different.

It's a good idea. Plenty of players have shot down my desire to bring back old things because "times are changing".

@Turk.5460 said:Is it time to normalize base hp across all professions? The disparity between Damaging/Supporting/Brawling professions has long since been done away with as power-creep started growing. I don't think there is any reason that some professions should have 11k base hp, while others get 15k, and two get 19k. It made sense when the two 19khp professions did less damage/utility than the rest, and the four 15khp professions were more utility than damage, and the 3 11khp professions were more damage than utility. But now that everything is so powerful, and utility, damage, or both were largely spread out among all professions - I don't see that it is fair to keep the base-HP so different.

Why not just ask for normalized damage instead?Like on one hand I would love to see a health boost for my thief and gimmick guardian. On the other hand I am very much aware that professions across the game are able to do immense damage for example, malicious backstab, The radiant guardian combo, mesmer burst combo, holo damage combo, ranger damage etc.How much more would they do with higher health values and the ability to go full on zerk without the worry of a healthpool?Or lets say they take the opposite approach, and start every class at 11k HP. How many professions are going to be immediately stomped out of the game, then over buffed, because the kit only really worked when they had the health to deal with the damage?In a broad , and long term setting, I don't think a normalized health pool will do anything but create more problems. Especially without changing the kit of classes to either be the same or close to it across the board.

edit: Also its two at 18k iircEdit2: oof I stand corrected 19.2k being naked

Yes....i am naked right now....how does that make you feel?

@Solori.6025 said:

@"Turk.5460" said:Is it time to normalize base hp across all professions? The disparity between Damaging/Supporting/Brawling professions has long since been done away with as power-creep started growing. I don't think there is any reason that some professions should have 11k base hp, while others get 15k, and two get 19k. It made sense when the two 19khp professions did less damage/utility than the rest, and the four 15khp professions were more utility than damage, and the 3 11khp professions were more damage than utility. But now that everything is so powerful, and utility, damage, or both were largely spread out among all professions - I don't see that it is fair to keep the base-HP so different.

That doesn't change the fact that powercreep has enabled all professions to do immense damage, yet there still remains a 8k difference between some professions base hp pools.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health

It's 19.2k.

Oh man... If Guardian had the highest HP pool... Haha!

@Solori.6025 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Is it time to normalize base hp across all professions? The disparity between Damaging/Supporting/Brawling professions has long since been done away with as power-creep started growing. I don't think there is any reason that some professions should have 11k base hp, while others get 15k, and two get 19k. It made sense when the two 19khp professions did less damage/utility than the rest, and the four 15khp professions were more utility than damage, and the 3 11khp professions were more damage than utility. But now that everything is so powerful, and utility, damage, or both were largely spread out among all professions - I don't see that it is fair to keep the base-HP so different.

You cant normalize damage. There's to much to change in that regard for that to happen. You got damage coefficients, the starting skill damage displayed on the tool tip, might that increases damage, so many damage modifiers, ferocity that increases crit damage, and condi damage on top of that thta might can effect.Normalizing hp i think is a great idea. Atm a warrior can run demolishers ammy with incredible positive effect with zero negitives to it. If an ele or thf uses it they will be so incredibly susceptible to condis that it is a completly useslesss ammy to them.

bring all into 15K

@Turk.5460 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Is it time to normalize base hp across all professions? The disparity between Damaging/Supporting/Brawling professions has long since been done away with as power-creep started growing. I don't think there is any reason that some professions should have 11k base hp, while others get 15k, and two get 19k. It made sense when the two 19khp professions did less damage/utility than the rest, and the four 15khp professions were more utility than damage, and the 3 11khp professions were more damage than utility. But now that everything is so powerful, and utility, damage, or both were largely spread out among all professions - I don't see that it is fair to keep the base-HP so different.

Thus why I suggested normalizing damage.We could even ask for them to finally revamp toughness as that stat needs to finally be buffedOr as they have been doing, percentage based nerfs to professions or specific skills with stacking damage modifiers.I don't believe making or taking 2-5 professions and radically changing health value, with the way damage and mechanics in this game are currently distributed will solve the problem, and remember, for this you are not just taking and changing health for classes that ALL function the same. The mechanics, skill sets,combos, weapons, etc. All vary from class to class. It's a much larger picture than just damage.But lets say we start every profession at 19k.Now thief,mes,ranger,holo,ele can begin using pure zerk or demolishers ON TOP OF the kit they already have.It sounds great, it really does. But the negatives you can guess just by looking at the meta currently in my opinion outweigh that by a ton.

On the other hand though,An evasion Daredevil with full zerk and 19k base HP sounds fun and terrifying.

Yep! It doesn't make sense for classes like a warrior should have high hp and high damage.. along with high defense, and high invulnerability uptime, and high mobility. Normalizing the base hp is a start, but there is a lot more they need to normalize, damage would be the next best candidate.

@Solori.6025 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Is it time to normalize base hp across all professions? The disparity between Damaging/Supporting/Brawling professions has long since been done away with as power-creep started growing. I don't think there is any reason that some professions should have 11k base hp, while others get 15k, and two get 19k. It made sense when the two 19khp professions did less damage/utility than the rest, and the four 15khp professions were more utility than damage, and the 3 11khp professions were more damage than utility. But now that everything is so powerful, and utility, damage, or both were largely spread out among all professions - I don't see that it is fair to keep the base-HP so different.

I'm not suggesting everyone be brought up to 19k. I think Crab was most sound with his suggestion of having everyone at 15k. I'm not sure about ele, but Thief already doesn't have much fight presence, adding 4k hp isn't going to shoot them into some sort of unstoppable OP brawl machine.

why is this even being considered? classes with the lowest hp pool, guard thief and ele, already have high survivability if played right. you cant just throw some random number out there and expect things to go ok. the entire profession design was built around this hp difference. instead of worrying about hp, consider smaller things that if buffed would bring the class into a better spot.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:why is this even being considered? classes with the lowest hp pool, guard thief and ele, already have high survivability if played right. you cant just throw some random number out there and expect things to go ok. the entire profession design was built around this hp difference. instead of worrying about hp, consider smaller things that if buffed would bring the class into a better spot.

Yes, they were designed with that in mind, weren't they? Which was long ago. Was the current power-creep designed with that in mind? No. It seems as though the power-creep from two expansions already normalized the damage and utility between most professions, but left the hp where it was - imo pretty unfair. Why do you think an Engi should have more base HP than an Ele right now? What logic in the current state of the game makes that acceptable. Or Warrior vs. Guardian? This isn't the same game it was at launch where there were trade-offs such as blocks and evades or lack thereof for higher/lower hp. There aren't any trade-offs that justify the HP disparity now.

I agree with this post, no reason to have different HP for each class, due to power creep having different HP amounts for different classes just makes things unbalanced and unfair.

You have the advantage in HP and tankness if you are a warrior over any other class it feels unbalanced, Especially in PVP, 1v1 warrior in pvp you're already at a disadvantage if you have to face one using another class.

I think everyone have 15k HP no matter the mode would be ok.There are builds out there that absoultly destroy classes with low base HP in one or two hits that have no HP or defensive investment.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:why is this even being considered? classes with the lowest hp pool, guard thief and ele, already have high survivability if played right. you cant just throw some random number out there and expect things to go ok. the entire profession design was built around this hp difference. instead of worrying about hp, consider smaller things that if buffed would bring the class into a better spot.

Not really, the survivability comes at the cost of damage options and PVP is pretty much about dealing straight damage or tanking points.

Its really unfair and weird that Warrior has 19K HP and due to traits lines can be more tanky then guardian, the class that IS suppose the defensive class.As some one who uses DH, I hate fighting warriors they have way too much HP, nearly double mine in some cases.They deal out a ton of damage more than I recover a power build and most of them have the signet of might which turns their attacks into unblockable attacks meaning just go right thru aegis or any block I might have. Spellbreaker is designed just to wreck guardians and tank builds. Full counter gg.

If I manage to deal a lot damage to them 9/10 they're running defense trait line so they're even tankier over time as I damage them, also if they're running the defensive trait line they're gonna have defy pain trait which allows them to become immune to damage while attacking. Combine this with Berzerker or spellbreaker this allows them destory me and can't do much to them.

I am not saying it would fix things but everyone having the same amount of HP would make match ups against warriors and a lot more fairer and balanced.

this would nerf classes that don't need it and buff classes that don't need it. this isn't a solution because it would create just as many problems as it would solve.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would nerf classes that don't need it and buff classes that don't need it. this isn't a solution because it would create just as many problems as it would solve.

Can you tell me why Mirage and Holo deserve more HP than the 3 lowest? Or why Spellbreakers and Scourges deserve more than everyone? I'd like to hear what logic you have to justify that...

People nowadays prefere boring same instead of diversity, meaning intead of learning to fight creatively with the diferent tools at their disposal, which makes every profession unique in it's way and the combat and build choises more diverse, they want everthing to be the same, probably just so they are left with no surprises in a boring mirror combat system... yeap the community is going the right direction...

@NuhDah.9812 said:People nowadays prefere boring same instead of diversity, meaning intead of learning to fight creatively with the diferent tools at their disposal, which makes every profession unique in it's way and the combat and build choises more diverse, they want everthing to be the same, probably just so they are left with no surprises in a boring mirror combat system... yeap the community is going the right direction...

Normalizing HP would open up a plethora of more viable builds, as quite a few professions wouldn't be forced to pick an amulet with Vitality just to participate.

@Turk.5460 said:Is it time to normalize base hp across all professions? The disparity between Damaging/Supporting/Brawling professions has long since been done away with as power-creep started growing. I don't think there is any reason that some professions should have 11k base hp, while others get 15k, and two get 19k. It made sense when the two 19khp professions did less damage/utility than the rest, and the four 15khp professions were more utility than damage, and the 3 11khp professions were more damage than utility. But now that everything is so powerful, and utility, damage, or both were largely spread out among all professions - I don't see that it is fair to keep the base-HP so different.

I agree

Builds that already live to long will be even harder to take down, I know people are against one shot meta and such, but for conquest people dying faster is much healthier than a select few living forever on point.

@Daishi.6027 said:Builds that already live to long will be even harder to take down, I know people are against one shot meta and such, but for conquest people dying faster is much healthier than a select few living forever on point.

So should Mirages and Holos be moved to the 11k hp pool then?

Normalizing HP would require major redesign of all classes. Also they would need to balance all core and specialization trees. Not going to happen, it is just cheaper to create new expansion and sell it but if it is the reason that Anet finally gives some meaningful scaling defence to necro like blocks, evades, mobility then I agree

@Turk.5460 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:Builds that already live to long will be even harder to take down, I know people are against one shot meta and such, but for conquest people dying faster is much healthier than a select few living forever on point.

If we are standardizing then doing so by the lowest numbers would be best; so... yeah, probably. Almost all classes would need quite an overhaul redesign, and I doubt that would happen

at some points Im like, YEA my elementalist could use the buff but then I'm like.... My DH doesn't need it because of the sheer amount of blocks and Aegis I spam.

@Turk.5460 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would nerf classes that don't need it and buff classes that don't need it. this isn't a solution because it would create just as many problems as it would solve.

maybe by looking at how each class performs in a pvp scenario you can answer your own question.