Turk.5460 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I posed this question in the sPvP forums, but I believe WvW would benefit from a normalization as well. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/52595/normalizing-base-hp#latestIf the game were to release right now and be brand new, would you be perplexed as to why 3 Professions have 11k, 4 have 15k, and 2 have 19k?The TL;DR - No logical reason for there to be 11k, 15k, and 19k hp professions anymore due to powercreep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhusky.2985 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I think Guardian and Elementist definity need more HP in general.I think every class having 15K HP would be ok the different HP amounts isnt needed anymore.Its really unfair and weird that Warrior has 19K HP and due to traits lines can be more tanky then guardian, the class that IS suppose the defensive class.Game play wise in PvP/WvW you have the advantage in HP and tankness if you are a warrior over any other class it feels unbalanced, Especially in PVP, 1v1 warrior in pvp you're already at a disadvantage if you have to face one using another class.There are builds out there that absoultly destroy classes with low base HP in one or two hits that have no HP or defensive investment.even some bosses in PvE, Theives, Guardians and elementalists get oneshot by some boss mechanics due to their low base HP, and in other modes you need that full zerker gear to do DPS.This is something that is needed EVERYWHERE across the game in general to balance things out, Not just wvw, but other modes. like PvP and PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Leftover from the pre-HoT days when stats came partially from traits and traits were much more customizable. We got elite traits, but Anet nuked balance and build diversity in one fell swoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Guardians have access to blocks and such which is one of the reasons why they had lower HP. There were specific reasons why the HP values were different between classes. Perhaps some adjustments could be made depending on an e-spec equipped assuming such an adjustment is actually necessary. Classes that go glass cannon should be getting destroyed. Glass cannon builds do not need to be buffed to be even more survivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Blocks are kinda useless in today's game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 @LetoII.3782 said:Blocks are kinda useless in today's game.Very true, they don't defend nearly as well as they did from the base game. Warriors, with 8k more HP than Guardians, are much more durable, and generally do more damage than Guardians now, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 mmm, would try it to see if it could help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 @Ayrilana.1396 said:Guardians have access to blocks and such which is one of the reasons why they had lower HP. There were specific reasons why the HP values were different between classes. Perhaps some adjustments could be made depending on an e-spec equipped assuming such an adjustment is actually necessary. Classes that go glass cannon should be getting destroyed. Glass cannon builds do not need to be buffed to be even more survivable. cough mirage, mesmer, chrono cough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Well it’ll be up to Anet to determine whether HP levels for each class should be re-looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKeostuKen.2738 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 They just need to bring back the old trait system. Normalize everything and let people build a class the way they want. Thats as balanced as its gonna get after all this powercreep entered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 @LetoII.3782 said:Blocks are kinda useless in today's game.Huh? When I block people they stop whispering me. I think they're useful! D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimator.3589 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Base HP spread could certainly stand to be tightened, but effective HP is the bigger problem, and far more difficult to calculate. With the amounts of active defense(avoidance, mitigation, and self-healing) now in the game, light classes can be far tankier than heavy classes with the same stat spread. Some classes have to sacrifice far more to achieve the same TTK as other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 @Ayrilana.1396 said:Well it’ll be up to Anet to determine whether HP levels for each class should be re-looked at. True, which is why I started this thread. Hopefully the idea will be passed along to someone on the balance team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loosmaster.8263 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:@LetoII.3782 said:Blocks are kinda useless in today's game.Huh? When I block people they stop whispering me. I think they're useful! D:This... Good one...Thumbs Up too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:@LetoII.3782 said:Blocks are kinda useless in today's game.Huh? When I block people they stop whispering me. I think they're useful! D:I lold <3Though real men troll back :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhusky.2985 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 @"Ayrilana.1396" said:Guardians have access to blocks and such which is one of the reasons why they had lower HP. With Power and new elite specs, there are MANY way a for attacks go around aegis and or to be unblockable and render any blocks or aegis useless,I don't even bother with aegis because literally everything just goes thru it. Or there are many multi-hitting attacks that it doesnt protect against.Maybe if Guardian has access to Barrier to make it more tanky, then I can understand your point.But as it stands there is no reason for them to have low HP now.In wvw without any bulk or HP investment Ele's, Guard's and Thieves are just fodder for people to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Its not really as easy as arguing "powercreep" as even with this, there are high damage thieves that can be insanely tanky and warriors that can drop in an instant. Or that moment last night when I saw a dragonhunter outrun 5 man and heal through anything lol. They dont seem to be hurting from low hp. Then of course you got the necro, highest hp class there is... and most would argue its weaker 1v1 than many other classes. Now how does that make any sense if hp was such a big deal?If anything, we should just get a ~2k baseline boost of hp. Which then again would be offset by doing more damage because everyone would skip more vitality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Base HP has been perfect since day 1. There are good reasons for it to be that way. Experimenting with something that has worked really well is not worth risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver.2076 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 take health, armor and the defensive buffs of the class (and constant overall buffs like protection) together, add them up to an EHP and compare them with each other. Then you can see that in WvW the DMG classes are below 100kk, ballance around 120kk and the tanks around over 150kk. The only difference is, that some are little more susceptible to conditiondamage (less vita) than others. However, you can clearly see that the modifiers significantly increase the overall defense, so that even classes with less hp can have a high EHP and that for example more armor or vita in certain builds has a very strong effect if and so...in short, don't worry about a little HP or armor, but always look at the whole product and, now it's tricky, consider the way of playing and the movement, aggro vulnerability aso... welcome to complex theoriecrafting ;)by the way, some defensive modifiers are summed up in the product, others are multiplied! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorani.7205 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Definitely yes. back in the old GW1 days everyone had 480 hp at lvl 20 and that was a baseline PvP could work with. Balance was not perfect, but at least Izzy only had to juggle with the different armour classes (3 variables) instead of armour and hit point classes (9 variables). Having hit point classes is a fundamental problem of GW2 balancing that Anet created themselves without the need for it. It got worse when Anet decided to have those huge differences in the numbers too. (over 70% between low and high)PS: It's low HP & low AC is the root of all evil for the Elementalist and I remember discussing a switch between Ele & Mes in terms of HP since the second beta weekend of GW2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 I dont see how this is a problem. It perfectly reflects the active defenses and type of skill sets of each class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 @Silver.2076 said:take health, armor and the defensive buffs of the class (and constant overall buffs like protection) together, add them up to an EHP and compare them with each other. Then you can see that in WvW the DMG classes are below 100kk, ballance around 120kk and the tanks around over 150kk. The only difference is, that some are little more susceptible to conditiondamage (less vita) than others. However, you can clearly see that the modifiers significantly increase the overall defense, so that even classes with less hp can have a high EHP My guardian only has 42 flibflobs on the conflobulation index, what size septicaliper are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheri.5406 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 @LetoII.3782 said:Blocks are kinda useless in today's game.I don't think that's true. Even if it's quite difficult to time your blocks they remain very valuable in pvp and wvw. If too difficult to time them, rotating / spamming them works fine too. FB can apply aegis very frequently and preventing 5k damage is still a lot easier than healing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 @Etheri.5406 said:@LetoII.3782 said:Blocks are kinda useless in today's game.I don't think that's true. Even if it's quite difficult to time your blocks they remain very valuable in pvp and wvw. If too difficult to time them, rotating / spamming them works fine too. FB can apply aegis very frequently and preventing 5k damage is still a lot easier than healing it up. Soulbeast v DragonhunterYour move sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlord.9074 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 no, because the classes are not balanced enough to normalize HP. It's a slippery slope. Once you normalize HP, you have to normalize Damage and sustain. Thats not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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