Should Legendary Collections AP rewarded be rescaled?

as someone who is looking forward to get both Radiant set and Hellfire set unlocked, looking at the AP granted for completing crafting legendary items, they are a joke.

The example I'm using for comparison below and the Poll will be base on 'Rare Collections' vs 'Legendary Weapons', but should be not limited to my example but expanded to Legendary Armor, Backpack, Trinkets

Looking at Rare Collections, there are 49 collections and rewards 503 AP, which is average >10AP per collectionWhile Legendary Collections, there are 81 collections, but only rewards a measly 228 AP for the amount of effort and in-game currencies to complete them; average < 3 AP per collection

I think Anet needs to rescale them

1. To reflect the amount of efforts and resources required
2. Make it more attractive for people to do them to drain materials off TP

Once more, a thread asking for something to be changed so that it goes faster. :/

For me, a big part of GW2 - that is a RPG - is meant to progress over time. The game content has different time scales depending on types of activities and system of points. APs are typically on a long time scale. It is not supposed to go fast.For the skins coming as rewards from achievements, there are different levels of difficulty and different - expected - time scales. This is what gives to each skin its classification (common, rare...). It's a basic concept of the game. The ones from the APs system have the longest time scale of the game probably. I believe that it is intentional, for the player base who are staying at the game over years. This is the only thing that keeps going over such long time scale. I think the game needs it.

The rare collections don't reward you with a unique skin at the end. The AP is part of the reward. In contrast, for legendary collections, the weapon is the reward and the AP is just a little bit of icing.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The rare collections don't reward you with a unique skin at the end. The AP is part of the reward. In contrast, for legendary collections, the weapon is the reward and the AP is just a little bit of icing.

The 3 new weapons skins from Design a Weapon contest, each reward you with an exotic weapon with unique skin and 7 AP.barely 30 minutes each running around talking to NPCs, and the materials needs is incomparable to the amount you need to throw in for legendary collections.

the economy of scale is totally out of wack compare to hundreds of gold worth of materials and days of play for 9 AP for a pre-cursor (exotic)

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The rare collections don't reward you with a unique skin at the end. The AP is part of the reward. In contrast, for legendary collections, the weapon is the reward and the AP is just a little bit of icing.

Why must they be comparable?

@Dreamy Lu.3865 said:Once more, a thread asking for something to be changed so that it goes faster. :/

For me, a big part of GW2 - that is a RPG - is meant to progress over time. The game content has different time scales depending on types of activities and system of points. APs are typically on a long time scale. It is not supposed to go fast.For the skins coming as rewards from achievements, there are different levels of difficulty and different - expected - time scales. This is what gives to each skin its classification (common, rare...). It's a basic concept of the game. The ones from the APs system have the longest time scale of the game probably. I believe that it is intentional, for the player base who are staying at the game over years. This is the only thing that keeps going over such long time scale. I think the game needs it.

like I replied to Illconceived Was Na.9781, the scale input and output is out of wack, so I believe it is justifiable some bump of AP being rewarded.

People do these pretty much purely for the AP, precursors are ridiculously cheap on TP; but a measly 9 AP for hundreds of gold and days of play time is a turn off for most players.

Increasing the AP reward will encourage the AP chasers to do them, in effect clearing out more materials on TP, benefiting the sellers of materials at the same time as there's more demand.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The rare collections don't reward you with a unique skin at the end. The AP is part of the reward. In contrast, for legendary collections, the weapon is the reward and the AP is just a little bit of icing.

Just as Basic Collections vs Rare Collections?

Basic Collections have easier barrier to completion in both play time and resource, thus reward less AP compare to Rare Collections?so why not the same apply to Rare vs Legendaries?

Or they could just reduce the AP reward of the Rare collections to bring them in line with the Legendary collections and retroactively revoke any previously earned AP as well as associated rewards.

Thus making the AP reward skins more coveted.

Of course, this is in jest, but you get the idea that balance can be achieved in a number of ways.....

@crepuscular.9047 said:People do these pretty much purely for the AP,I imagine some people do, some people do it regardless of the AP, and some don't care about AP at all.

precursors are ridiculously cheap on TP; but a measly 9 AP for hundreds of gold and days of play time is a turn off for most players.

• Legendary Tarrktun Supporter: 2 AP at an average cost of 300g
• Legendary Sandstorm Player: 2 AP at an average cost of 5000g
• Contract of Patronage: 5 AP for 1000 gold

Some people like that sort of thing, some don't.

By itself, the cost of legendaries is not enough to convince ANet that their collections should generate more AP.

I think it's good that players can either choose to pursue or ignore legendary crafting based on their personal preferences or tastes, rather than feeling compelled to complete them because of AP's. So, I think it's good that the AP's stay as they are.

I like how people here are referring back to my forum thread of "making a change to make it faster"This is not about making it faster, this is about making it less tedious.My goal is not to get the AP armor as fast as I can, honestly i couldn't care less about AP now that it's no longer a tool to get a Gift of Battle, but I do agree on the fact that other achievements that require less effort, have more AP as reward is a bit silly.It's legendary, come on.. You'd expect atleast 5-10 AP from that and maybe a bit more when you finished the entire legendary.Because getting a legendary is pretty much an achievement on its own and really should have more achievement points.Perhaps it will encourage people to atleast do the collections for the precursors because honestly they are a lot of fun!

It's fine as is for two reasons:

1. The AP isn't high enough to make people feel FORCED to craft them just to get the AP
2. Most people simply want the weapon, AP is completely irrelevant & the low amount of AP doesn't help it either

As an AP huter, I'd be fine if those achis gave 50AP per tier of course.

But to keep things reasonable I guess it would be ok if the higher tiers gave more. I wouldn't mind it be 5-10-15(-20), but going 1-3-5(-7) would seem more in line with the amount of AP ANet is handing out these days. Also, since only the second tier is actually expesnive, the other tiers might be time consuming because of timegates or rare events, handing out 20AP for a scavenger hunt seems a bit much. Also, you get the skins and a precursor in the end, this is 1)the actual point of the collection more than the AP are and 2)a valuable reward by itself.

Well, wants aren't needs but more is more it seems.

Discussing how many AP the Legendary Collections give probably means that you pretty much maxed out the AP that can be had from other sources. :) Consider me impressed. I always wondered how many people there are that have pretty much every AP that can be earned.

@"pietjepuk.9832" said:Discussing how many AP the Legendary Collections give probably means that you pretty much maxed out the AP that can be had from other sources. :) Consider me impressed. I always wondered how many people there are that have pretty much every AP that can be earned.

Not getting enough AP is a very niche problem. Newer AP hunters will never catch up to more veteran AP hunters as long as they remain actively playing and hunting, so there's nothing competitive behind it. AP rewards aren't good in a gold an currency sense, but you can like the skins/titles that come with it or can set it as a personal goal to have a lot. Then you'd wish things went faster. For me, I just miss the days where I hadn't reached the AP daily/monthly cap or when LS releases gave you 300AP. Newer players got a glimpse of this with the last festival where ANet suprisingly didn't lower the AP from the 2014 event. If you did everything from the event you got over 500AP, this was closer to the norm back then.Also, here are the leaderboards. to get a glimpse of how much AP is a lot of AP.

It's just some... achievement points?

This is way too little a thing to spend any dev time on, IMHO. I'd argue remove the number entirely while they're at it, the old reward system is mostly adding problems anyhow (like permanent MF upgrades or GF upgrades).

3 AP per collection seems to be in line for the effort required (compared to the majority of other collections Anet has been released in the last years)

The problem is not so much the legendary collections and what little AP they grant. It's that ANet has, in general, become very stingy with AP ever since they released HoT. Pre-HoT achievements grant more AP compared to newer ones. A lot of those require a lot less effort than some of the newer ones, yet reward you with more. When it comes to AP this is the only comparison that matters, and the real reason for the discrepancy between so many achievements and their rewards. Yes, AP is a long term reward system, but ANet have purposefully changed it so the progression is much, much slower than before. After 6 years the people with the most AP have hardly passed half the amount you can get in total, and their progression will have slowed down to a crawl, ensuring that going from 30K to 60K will take much more time than going from 0 to 30K. The point is, it seems as if they don't want us to get to that point anytime soon, if at all, regardless of what you have to do for it. And it's highly unlikely the game will have a solid playerbase for such a long time. I mean, nothing bad about GW2 and ANet, since the game is still going strong. But it's no WoW. I don't mind taking time to reach a goal, but with ANet's current AP strategy the goal will never be reached. And if you put an end goal in sight, you have to at least make it attainable. So unless GW2 will go on for 5 more expansions and 10 more years, forget about ever reaching 60K AP. In the current state, it's nothing more than a carrot on a stick, or a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Which leads me to believe that we are never meant to reach that amount. If we did, they'd either have to increase the maximum, or make AP entirely useless by not adding anything new.

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The rare collections don't reward you with a unique skin at the end. The AP is part of the reward. In contrast, for legendary collections, the weapon is the reward and the AP is just a little bit of icing.

Just because other collections give more, doesn’t mean that these need to. Besides, the primary purpose of these collections was to give an alternative path to acquiring a precursor; not to give out AP.

@crepuscular.9047 said:People do these pretty much purely for the AP

Source?

precursors are ridiculously cheap on TP

Not to many players. It’s all relative to how much gold someone has and/or how much they can acquire during their normal play session.

but a measly 9 AP for hundreds of gold and days of play time is a turn off for most players.

Then don’t do them. Their primary purpose isn’t to reward our AP.

Increasing the AP reward will encourage the AP chasers to do them, in effect clearing out more materials on TP, benefiting the sellers of materials at the same time as there's more demand.

AP chasers are going to do them whether they’re 3 AP or 50+ AP. This isn’t going to make much of a change if any at all.

@"MauChann.3081" said:I like how people here are referring back to my forum thread of "making a change to make it faster"This is not about making it faster, this is about making it less tedious.My goal is not to get the AP armor as fast as I can, honestly i couldn't care less about AP now that it's no longer a tool to get a Gift of Battle, but I do agree on the fact that other achievements that require less effort, have more AP as reward is a bit silly.It's legendary, come on.. You'd expect atleast 5-10 AP from that and maybe a bit more when you finished the entire legendary.Because getting a legendary is pretty much an achievement on its own and really should have more achievement points.Perhaps it will encourage people to atleast do the collections for the precursors because honestly they are a lot of fun!

Less tedious by having them reward more AP which then makes the rewards come faster.

The OP is not suggesting to change anything about the legendary collections themselves other than the rewards. “Tedious” then must apply elsewhere which logically leads to acquiring AP at a faster rate to get achievement rewards. Makes even more sense considering they started out their post talking about how they’re trying to get the AP armor sets.

@"MauChann.3081" said:This is not about making it faster, this is about making it less tedious.The suggestion in this thread does not allow for that nuance. This is asking for more AP for the same effort; that's about faster. Making AP acquisition less tedious would be changing the hoops one has to pass through to obtain AP in the first place, either adding more achievements or making some of them easier to obtain.

My goal is not to get the AP armor as fast as I can, honestly i couldn't care less about AP now that it's no longer a tool to get a Gift of Battle, but I do agree on the fact that other achievements that require less effort, have more AP as reward is a bit silly.Why? Why can't there be variation, so that people who hunt AP have something to do and those who could "care less" don't need to worry about it at all? Why shouldn't chieves with a huge tangible reward have less AP than ones without any reward other than AP?

It's legendary, come on.. You'd expect atleast 5-10 AP from that and maybe a bit more when you finished the entire legendary.No, I expect nothing at all. In fact, when the game launched, Legendary Collector awarded only 5 AP for each full Legendary, up to the first five. Thus 3 for each and every precusor seems almost generous in comparison.

Because getting a legendary is pretty much an achievement on its own and really should have more achievement points.Why should it really have more? You end up getting a legendary weapon, which is the reward for the "achievement on its own."

Perhaps it will encourage people to atleast do the collections for the precursors because honestly they are a lot of fun!And that's its own reward. I've done them for fun, not for the AP. If they rewarded for AP, then more people would do them for the AP, not for the fun.

The whole Achievementpoint-system and their reward-structure could use a major rework imo. Just changing the AP-number of a certain category wouldnt really be a solution to anything.

GUYS GUYS, just to be very clear to why I created the post/poll

1. Not about getting AP fast, but rather about the consistency of effort/resource to AP ratio; The idea here is to use the example as an initiative to bring consistency across the entire AP system, it's a b...dy mess across the board, it feels like whenever there's a new set of achievement anet is just throwing a dice to determine how much AP to give out.I've had GW2 since pre-launch, but I took 2.5 year haitus after the first 2 weeks, I'm not salty about missing out on retired pre LWS2 achieves.
   
2. The design of the current AP system is purely base on who got the most time on their hand, there is no alternative paths; You want to reach that sweet.ss 60k AP cap? go play every single game mode till death do you part.GW1's Title/Achievement system is more well designed and implemented, providing players favouring different game modes with alternative paths to the same goal.

@"crepuscular.9047" said:GUYS GUYS, just to be very clear to why I created the post/poll

1. Not about getting AP fast, but rather about the consistency of effort/resource to AP ratio; The idea here is to use the example as an initiative to bring consistency across the entire AP system, it's a b...dy mess across the board, it feels like whenever there's a new set of achievement anet is just throwing a dice to determine how much AP to give out.I've had GW2 since pre-launch, but I took 2.5 year haitus after the first 2 weeks, I'm not salty about missing out on retired pre LWS2 achieves.

Sure seems like it’s about getting AP faster.

In the next quote of yours, you complain about the current system being who has the most time on their hands and say you want an alternative. That alternative would likely be one that requires less time based on your complaint.

Your first post starts off about AP armor and how the AP from legendary collections are a joke. I’m pretty sure that if you didn’t want that armor, you could care less about how much AP the legendary collections provided.

2. The design of the current AP system is purely base on who got the most time on their hand, there is no alternative paths; You want to reach that sweet.ss 60k AP cap? go play every single game mode till death do you part.

That’s how most of these systems function in games.

GW1's Title/Achievement system is more well designed and implemented, providing players favouring different game modes with alternative paths to the same goal.

Very different system as the reward was often from completing the achievement itself. There wasn’t really cumulative rewards other than another title.

@crepuscular.9047 said:GUYS GUYS, just to be very clear to why I created the post/poll

1. Not about getting AP fast, but rather about the consistency of effort/resource to AP ratio; The idea here is to use the example as an initiative to bring consistency across the entire AP system, it's a b...dy mess across the board, it feels like whenever there's a new set of achievement anet is just throwing a dice to determine how much AP to give out.I've had GW2 since pre-launch, but I took 2.5 year haitus after the first 2 weeks, I'm not salty about missing out on retired pre LWS2 achieves.

   You say that, but then you keep talking about how long it takes to acquire AP.

2. The design of the current AP system is purely base on who got the most time on their hand, there is no alternative paths; You want to reach that sweet.ss 60k AP cap? go play every single game mode till death do you part.Yes, that seems to be ANet's intent: reward everyone a bit for doing common, easy things; reward that fraction of players who likes to play a lot with a bit more.

GW1's Title/Achievement system is more well designed and implemented, providing players favouring different game modes with alternative paths to the same goal.What alternative paths and what rewards do you mean? There are no alternative paths for individual titles: you have to complete all the relevant story missions on a toon, consume so much candy, acquire specific pets. There's some options in terms of how many of which weapons you need for certain statues or which minis, but the overall method doesn't change: acquire enough weapons, bind enough minis.

If you're referring to GWAMM, sure, there are redundancies built in as to which 30 titles you obtain. But that's not materially different from the equivalent system in GW2: for a number of umbrella achievements (mostly from stories), you can skip some to get the relevant title.

If you're referring to the HoM rewards, then that's exactly the same as GW2 (plus, there's no material reward available in GW1 for HoM30 or even HoM50): the game doesn't care how you get 50 HoM points, nor does it care how you get 20k AP.