On a scale from 3 to -3, where -3 is a complete disaster, how bad/good are the new Herald changes?

I don't want to influence the poll, so i keep certain arguments and comments to myself.

Love how you designed this poll. +1 (er..no pun was intended but lol)

Fair amount of bugs that came with it make it difficult to see if I actually like the changes or not. Facet of Nature skills don't warrant a -3 upkeep in most cases since they're all pretty weak. Glint's feel useless/like it's not even doing anything. Draconic Echo is bugged and not working right.

Other than that I do like a lot of the supportive changes.

-1 for me. The F2 change was nice but definitely not the -3 it costs to use now. The bug to Phase Traversal is very ridiculous that it made it through live. Burst of Strength is very underwhelming compared to what is was previously. Facet of Chaos was a much needed changed in its cast time.

They failed miserable on shield only clearing one condition but that's on me expecting more.

So overall, right now, it feels like a -1 but might change when I play with it more.

-1 strictly because of the PT screwup means Rev is effectively soft-banned from sPvP until they fix it.

The buffs to glint are substantial. The traits don't feel any worse or better.

The biggest problem is the new facet. The utilities granted simply do not make up for the boons granted by the old consume skill. The life steal in shiro granted is pitifully small. -3 means you cant use it with IO in sPvP. Overall a nerf. Anet really missed the mark here. Considering the power level facet upkeep should have been buffed from -2 to -1 not nerfed to -3.

New hardening persistence would be decent if shield skills didn't have inherent problems.

TL;DR hard to judge if the buffs make up for the nerfs since we can't play Herald in sPvP now as a result of the PT bug.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:Fair amount of bugs that came with it make it difficult to see if I actually like the changes or not. Facet of Nature skills don't warrant a -3 upkeep in most cases since they're all pretty weak. Glint's feel useless/like it's not even doing anything. Draconic Echo is bugged and not working right.

Shiro's feels pretty good to use in small groups... Especially vs high toughness targets.

Pros:

Buffs to glint are too good. Chaotic Release is the dumbest buff I've ever seen. Needs to go to 30 seconds asap. You don't even have to think about using this skill anymore. It's your answer to Swift Gale's removal if you need to run. It's the best downed launch skill in the game. It hits like a truck. No brain usage required now.

Condi cleanse added to shield, and YES, it does cleanse a condition per pulse on Crystal Hibernation (not just one overall!)

Meh/OK:

New trait line is lackluster with some synergy that just falls short.

Minors: 10% health bonus is solid. Reinforced Potency is like a lame version of Envoy of Sustenance and Elder's Force mixed together, but I think it's solid too.

Adepts:

Elder's Respite is meh for anything but a Ventari build. I guess it could be of some use.

Core Value is meh but ok. Not really sure which of this or Elder's Respite will be meta for PvP. My guess would be this due to Shiro removing 3 boons.

Rising Momentum is garbage. Unless you can stack this past 100% with superspeed and literally be SANIC HEGEHOG it'll be bad.

Majors:Shared Empowerment is even better after the buff.

Shining Aspects is... lame with the ICD, and only benefits Glint.

Hardening Persistence is a great trait to counter comp a condi build, but it reduces damage taken even less than old Hardening Persistence... and slid into the master slot.

GM:Elevated Compassion doesn't heal you. Only for use in Ventari builds.

Draconic Echo is in my opinion the most interesting new trait they added this patch. Sadly, it's bugged at the moment and doesn't really keep those facets going. I would also like to see it count toward upkeep for Hardening Persistence and Rising Momentum.

Forceful Persistence is a solid damage mod but it seems to me like they just ran out of ideas and slapped this here.

Cons:

Facet of Nature in Glint is 100% garbage compared to what we used to have. +3 upkeep (nerf) for only 10% boon duration (nerf) and a measly 2 seconds to boons (nerf)? This complete trash skill makes boon access much harder, and the concentration nerf to our former GM minor makes matters even worse. I don't think I've seen anything get hit so hard for no reason in recent memory. This said, it feels solid in Shiro, Mallyx, and Jalis. Glint's Facet of Nature needs a buff (or just a straight reversion) asap. Doesn't even have any interaction with Incensed Response like it used to. In addition, +3 upkeep is completely awful. Can't use it at the same time as Impossible Odds either. Please look at this skill. It used to be a staple and now it's trash.

No nerf to offhand sword and no buff to axe. Sword offhand continues to be extremely strong and the clear choice.

The balance team has completely overlooked a lot of other problems. No nerf to the idiotic sic 'em longbow spam build, condi mesmer got stronger with scepter as an option, scourge now deals more aids, reaper now deals more damage.

Why is everyone screaming for nerfs to offhand sword? Theres classes with far stronger burst.

The bad:

1. For a PvE solo player, Glint's adept's major traits offer no satisfying choice.
2. True Nature's Shiro and Jalis effects, although powerful, are very niche in open-world PvE. Glint's F2 is unexciting compared to the former version.
3. Facet of Nature's skill facts are incomplete and do not display numbers, making it hard to judge their usefulness.
4. -3 upkeep on Facet of Nature seems overcosted for some of them.
5. -3 upkeep on Facet of Nature brings back the old problem of Revenant spending too much energy on upkeep skills, and not retaining enough to use other skills.
6. -3 upkeep on Facet of Nature can't be used with Impossible Odds in PvP. Seems like an oversight.
7. Chaotic Release's buff makes the skill very mindless. It would have been better if Anet found a way to buff this skill without taking away one of its weaknesses. It's important for skills to have clear drawbacks so that they they require additional player skill/ mastery to be used to their full effect, making them more enjoyable and satisfying to pull of.
8. Burst of Strength damage boost is a buff against targets with high vulnerability stacks, but a nerf otherwise, especially to solo players, who already had a hard time justifying its use.

The good:

1. Glint's healing traits are laid in a simple way that is easy to understand, in comparison to Ventari's incredibly confusing healing traits.
2. Ventari's F2 skill's effects are perfect and, alongside the new healing traits, they communicate it clearly that Herald Ventari is meant to be THE healer revenant spec.
3. Mallyx F2 skill's effects are awesome and exactly what players have been asking for a long time.
4. Extra 10% health on a minor trait is solid.
5. Draconic Echo is a very creative, exciting trait. Unfortunately, it seems like it may be overshadowed by the more generic Forceful Persistence's damage boost.
6. Boon-sharing to 10 targets can go a long way to make it really good in raids. Can also be cool in open-world events.
7. Glint underwater.

Final veredict:Herald's rework is a step in the right direction, but needs an extra round of polish from the balance team.

Bring back f2 boons....

@narcx.3570 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:Fair amount of bugs that came with it make it difficult to see if I actually like the changes or not. Facet of Nature skills don't warrant a -3 upkeep in most cases since they're all pretty weak. Glint's feel useless/like it's not even doing anything. Draconic Echo is bugged and not working right.

Even with the ICD? does it really feel like it's making an actual difference instead of just dumping that energy into one of our high damage attacks? I haven't gotten a chance to really test it out yet in a group setting, but the ability in theory is about as impactful (or even less so) than Vampiric Aura so I'm hesitant

Well dps herald got a net 3% damage nerf from what i can tell (with chaos chrono).

I played around with glint for a good amount of hours trying to get the 15% dmg buff to increase overall dps but sadly you miss out on too much extra damage from either vengeful hammers or the proc from IO.

That said the new support herald is really promising. 10man might fury regen and protection has a lot of potential. Combined with shield heal and staff cc abd on demand projectile block gives the build good utility and very strong healing.

@LucianDK.8615 said:Why is everyone screaming for nerfs to offhand sword? Theres classes with far stronger burst.

New necro says hi. It's kitten busted.

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Why is everyone screaming for nerfs to offhand sword? Theres classes with far stronger burst.

New perm quickness shroud stole our down cleave from 3 patches ago. :astonished:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:Fair amount of bugs that came with it make it difficult to see if I actually like the changes or not. Facet of Nature skills don't warrant a -3 upkeep in most cases since they're all pretty weak. Glint's feel useless/like it's not even doing anything. Draconic Echo is bugged and not working right.

Probably not in PvP where you need defensive energy managment... But in PvE, you literally have enough energy to pop it with IO and not have to alter your rotation at all, so it's just like extra.

they got rid of bolster fortifications, the prot on heal trait.im mad.

HUGE buffs to herald healing, small power dps buffs and buffs to functionality and build diversity that remain to be seen due to bugs/useless tooltips.

on the other hand weird nerfs to qol; i want the endurance regen back. . .

Some good changes but I still feel bored playing Herald after having nothing else for 2-3 years.

I have mixed feelings about this patch. Overall, I am happy with the vision for Herald. I think this was overall a successful patch for Herald and I am excited for its future, but there are definitely some finer details that need ironing out. I expected this, as it really mixed some things up and I'm sure it's like taking shots in the dark to a certain extent. First, a non-balance opinion:

The animations for Facet of Nature/True Nature feel weird and out of place. My suggestions:-Facet of Nature: Aura around the arms based on the current legend, like a further extension of the current legend hand/arm effects.-True Nature: Animation similar to that of Song of the Mists.

For balance, I need more time to feel and test things out. However, I do have one major issue so far:-Facet of Nature staying active while swapping legends. I reeeeeeeeally dislike this. Like, a lot. I know this was one of the advertised features of the change, but it honestly feels awkward and can have very bad synergy. Each legend's FoN has very different functions and appropriate times to use; you won't always want it running when you swap legends. Furthermore, not only can the passive effects be unwelcomed, but also, the active effects can be completely wasted in order to break the energy upkeep upon legend swap. Example:

I am channeling Shiro FoN for the group lifesteal. I swap legend to Mallyx and suddenly I have 10 conditions on myself because I have Draconic Echo traited and I'm in a large squad in WvW. What do I do? I can use True Nature and put my FoN/TN on a 20-second cooldown, possibly wasting a potential condition transfer just to drop the passive; I can activate Pain Absorption and burn out my energy to stay alive; or I can accept my fate as a condi sponge and let myself die.Please, make this instantly deactivate upon legend swap. This is our elite spec-defining mechanic and it should be able to maximized as much as possible. The facet is instant to activate, so you're not gaining that much of an advantage by having it remain active while legend-swapping. What if I don't need the stab? What if the enemy has no boons to rip? What if I have no conditions to cleanse? But with the way it is currently implemented, I have no choice but to use it because my energy needs to be used or saved for other things. A skill that changes in functionality should not remain active when that functionality changes.

I'm confused why the shield was not given any real love. It's still an awful weapon to use, and considering it's a specialised weapon I think this should most certainly not be the case ever. Hopefully it will get some love in future, I'm sure they have data showing just how few Heralds actually use the shield.

Really disappointed that power dps herald got nerfed in PvE, where it was already just barely good enough. It got buffed in WvW where is was already in a good spot, why?Also 3 energy upkeep for F2 is way too high for the effect it provides.Power herald in pve still has no way to dump energy, like you can on condi by spamming UA.My suggestion: make Inspiring Reinforcement the same above water is it's underwater counterpart and reduce cooldowns for damage dealing skills in pve only.

idk why are they so persistent on taking away something from the class with almost every patch

look at that vote spread holy kitten. this was one very mixed rework. i didnt even vote since i myself dont know what to make of it yet

@LucianDK.8615 said:Why is everyone screaming for nerfs to offhand sword? Theres classes with far stronger burst.

No idea these guys must not play pvp much or play full zerker.

By the way OP where is the 0 option ?

I can't believe they killed Glint twice. At least we have another e-spec that we use the traitline but not the legend in. Great day if you're a healer though.