scepter ... nerf?

I know I'm in such a minority with scepter, as most wise mesmers pan it completely. It's inferior to all our other weapons by a long shot. Even still - I love it, always have and will always try to make it work in a build.

Today was not a good day for scepter.

The damage buff was ... boring. It's already been done before. What finally put it in the grave for me though is the increased cast time. I thought it was borderline slow before (even with malicious sorcery). Now it's unusable.

I would have loved to see something that makes the weapon behave more like the Mirage ambush. Faster, more active. I could go get a beer while waiting for confusing images to finish now. How about a 1.75s animation and go back to the original 5 hits on confusing images? That, or malicious sorcery needs to be higher than a 20% increased attack speed.

As an aside ... I've always accepted it before, but I don't understand why Anet continues to push this odd condition/power dance with scepter. Just seems they don't know what to do with it.

Wait how is this a nerf? How did this make the scepter unusable? Many more clones and considerably higher damage for the trade off of just 0.25s longer channel on 3, which will be unnoticable in practice.

To me its a straight up buff.

With perma quickness it's OK. So PvE it probably doesn't make much difference if playing in a party there. Without quickness, pretty much unusable, at least in any solo/PvP scenario. The difference in animation is highly noticeable. It was hard enough before to make it work with malicious sorcery. It's much worse now.

was it not buffed from 6 to 7 stacks confusion because the channel goes longer now ?

It would only be a nerf if you needed to wait til the end of the channel for damage. Instead it gained an extra tick.

Also it generates two clones on counter now.

0.25s is highly noticeable and makes it unusable? ?

Hm. I am super happy with this rather fun buff to scepter. The power component was already very strong and in this patch it just got buffed by ~45%(16.7% from the additional tick * 25% from the damage buff.) On power burst builds this skill now is kinda extreme.I did minor testing yesterday. Running berserker gear and unbuffed it hit about 13-14k.

I would have preferred some aoe/reworks to the auto (and clone auto) and 3 then just another damage buff on 3.

Look at Guardian staff this patch, the damage isn't amazing but its a much more fun weapon to use.

I'm happy with this buff. I too am a long suffering scepter user. I've used it to wreak devastation in WVW as it was. It has been a powerful range tool for offence when paired with Torch for defense. The usual scenario being that I've not finished a foe with my first Axe/Pistol burst and need some ranged pressure after getting out of their counterstrike. I typically Jaunt for distance then pull around with Illusionary Counter or The PRestige.

Illusionary Counter has been great for defense paired with invis from the Prestige. With those two in place, I can pull out enough to spin up Confusing Images as the start of a new burst that can often finish a foe. (Especially when they counter with 10+ stacks of confusion plus all the other condi I burned them with on the first pass)

With the new clones (for shatter and condi application) and more confusion (for self-immolation) that are top tools in my attack toolkit, I think this is a win for the sacrifice of .25s. I was used to buying the time anyways.

@RabbitUp.8294 said:0.25s is highly noticeable and makes it unusable? ?

First let me clarify, this is from a PvP context. Also considering I thought it was a bit slow even with malicious sorcery before ... now it's much slower. I'm speaking specifically of confusing images, which I think is the featured skill on this set. There's a lot of damage wrapped up in this skill that is difficult to land (one reason of the lack of popularity of this weapon) and this change made it much harder.

The other buffs are great, if not a little bland. Of course we'll take them.

@MesmerizedNYC.2479 said:With the new clones (for shatter and condi application) and more confusion (for self-immolation) that are top tools in my attack toolkit, I think this is a win for the sacrifice of .25s. I was used to buying the time anyways.

Also keep in mind that technically, that sacrifice isnt so much a sacrifice. Before it hit for a duration 2s once every .33s (6 hits). Now it hits for a duration of 2.25s once every 0.32s (7 hits). So it's actually hits faster, heh.

Thinking this is a nerf is absolutely incorrect from any possible interpretation of the change that actually uses the numbers.

The cast went from 2s to 2.25s. This increases the cast time by 12.5%

The number of hits went from 6 to 7. This increases the number of hits by 16.6%.

Ok, so we can already see why this is an indisputable buff. You've got more hits in less time. If the additional .25s bugs you that much, then sheath-cancel the skill at 1.92 seconds to retain the original 6 hits and gain .08 seconds bonus time out of the deal. But wait, theres more!

The damage has been increased by 25% per strike.

Ok, so not only does the skill hit faster, it also hits 25% harder per strike. This is a substantial buff. All put together, the skill does more damage per strike at a higher rate with a slightly longer total time for a significantly higher total damage. There's literally no mathematical interpretation that can frame this as a nerf. Enjoy your buffed scepter.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

Ok, so not only does the skill hit faster, it also hits 25% harder per strike. This is a substantial buff. All put together, the skill does more damage per strike at a higher rate with a slightly longer total time for a significantly higher total damage. There's literally no mathematical interpretation that can frame this as a nerf. Enjoy your buffed scepter.

Which is why I wouldn't dream of claiming we have a nerf based on mathematical reality, that's outlandish. The buffs are there, very apparent, and I'm happy for them. It's the interaction with the weapon as it pertains to one of the most important skills that I take issue with. Confusing Images was borderline clunky before and difficult to make effective (PvP). That's a major aspect that sours players against using scepter vs other weapons in that game mode, and this change makes it worse.

@skcamow.3527 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

Ok, so not only does the skill hit faster, it also hits 25% harder per strike. This is a substantial buff. All put together, the skill does more damage per strike at a higher rate with a slightly longer total time for a significantly higher total damage. There's literally no mathematical interpretation that can frame this as a nerf. Enjoy your buffed scepter.

No it doesnt. That's the entire point. You are wrong.

Does it make it better at PvP? Maybe not, channeled skills no matter the class have always been iffy. Personally I have a tendancy to self interrupt it. But that's really beside the point because its not worse. Its not a nerf.

@skcamow.3527 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

Ok, so not only does the skill hit faster, it also hits 25% harder per strike. This is a substantial buff. All put together, the skill does more damage per strike at a higher rate with a slightly longer total time for a significantly higher total damage. There's literally no mathematical interpretation that can frame this as a nerf. Enjoy your buffed scepter.

As I said, if the extra cast time bothers you, just sheath cancel at or before 2 seconds. It'll still be a buff and you get the original or better cast time.

I played around in open world PvE with scepter. It is pretty good. In no way it will susbstitute axe for condi mirage in group PvE, but I think it is a reliable ranged weapon in open world. I think the change to the block is more PvP geared. For PvE it is is kinda, okayish but does not matter much in my opinion.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:As I said, if the extra cast time bothers you, just sheath cancel at or before 2 seconds. It'll still be a buff and you get the original or better cast time.

I'll have to play around more with that post change.

@"Dawdler.8521" said:No it doesnt. That's the entire point. You are wrong.

Does it make it better at PvP? Maybe not, channeled skills no matter the class have always been iffy. Personally I have a tendancy to self interrupt it. But that's really beside the point because its not worse. Its not a nerf.

Hence why I had the question mark at the end of my thread title. "Nerf" or not, bottom line it made the skill more clunky than before.

@"otto.5684" said:I played around in open world PvE with scepter. It is pretty good. In no way it will susbstitute axe for condi mirage in group PvE, but I think it is a reliable ranged weapon in open world. I think the change to the block is more PvP geared. For PvE it is is kinda, okayish but does not matter much in my opinion.

Well actually....

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9buoul/qt_scepter_mirage_for_raids/?utm_source=reddit-android

You do realize that you can just cancel it .25 secs early to achieve pretty much the exact same damage and cast time as prepatch? Definitely one of the more absurd arguments I have seen in a while.

Sure, in fact it's been discussed in this thread. I maintain my point that the change made the skill more clunky. You shouldn't have to cancel the animation to achieve optimal functionality. Like GS 1 in the past (which anet ultimately enhanced for us), they should do the same here.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"otto.5684" said:I played around in open world PvE with scepter. It is pretty good.

In no way it will susbstitute axe for condi mirage in group PvE,

but I think it is a reliable ranged weapon in open world. I think the change to the block is more PvP geared. For PvE it is is kinda, okayish but does not matter much in my opinion.

The fact people are fine with Mirage DPS being balanced around a programming quirk is baffling to me. Especially in a game when parts of the game are known to break at a whim.