the mesmer nerfs were undeserved

(this is mostly about condi mesmer)Especially considering revenant and core guard are still in the game.

I don't understand why isn't revenant nerfed already when it's been so long that this class got busted beyond any reason and if you haven't been doing pvp all the ppl on higher elo just duo with revenant or even 2x revenants. It has too much mobility and too much damage and can pre-cast abilities with a teleport that can go through walls/ doesn't need sight and the dmg is just dumb. Then there's core guard which is the same but with slightly less dmg and way more retaliation and condi removal.

Since all the nerfs (every single patch) mesmer stopped being the most op class at some point cus it's so easy to counter , the only mesmer builds that do dmg don't have protection in them and with all the tp to target classes get buffed every patch (thief,rev,guard)

The stamina nerf is so dumb, you already use stamina to attack so you need more of it obviously, now the only 'semi viable' mesmer builds are with chaos and staff and standing on a point and then why would u play mesmer for that when there's better classes for it too? Without chaos you have no protection or stamina regen and chaos doesn't give you dmg except for people staying on a point which doesnt matter cus ur not gonna ill guard/necros like that anyway. At first i thought the scepter buff is nice cus ive been playing scepter since i made mesmer but it isn't nice cus the stamina nerf is way too much and you didn't just lose defense you also lost offense cus of it.The class was fine before these stamina nerfs, it already wasn't the strongest one but not the weakest one either

@incisorr.9502 said:Im curious cus it hasn't been changed or nerfed for a long while now and mirage is one of the main reasons why path of fire is garbage and why i barely even bother with this game

i mean, seriously what the actual hell? how is this class fine in your eyes?

you can't get caught cus you have stunbreak on dodge, you can cast skills while in iframe and it even removes condition for good measure. How the hell do you kill a mirage that isnt a complete newb considering he can just use his dodge and get out of anything and it has no cooldown ? On top of that they have all the other mesmer skills like distortion or stealth and they also have axe 3 which is so ridiculously overpowered like yeah mesmer basically has a 30 sec+ utility skill (that requires a slot) that's 10 times worse than axe 3 cus it does the same thing except it has no damage and it has 3 times longer cooldown - how does that even make any sense whatsoever ?

on top of that mirage is by far the highest mesmer dps spec and both condi and normal damage do so much while being virtually unkillable in 1v1 and the only way they die even in 1v5 is if they're greedy and they don't disengage.

By now it is obvious that core classes can suffer for the cheese their elite specs exploit.Not saying I agree with balancing from the core instead of the top (The elite specs) but this in particular is most likely why.Nerfing core pisses off a smaller playerbase than nerfing the elite itself.

Hahaha what did I just read. Condi Mirage Not op. Ok

I get that you mention core guard what can be considered a counter to mirage but Rev? Why the hell you mention Rev? Did i miss something?

And ofc condi mirage needs nerfs but they should nerf condimirage directly and not a core trait not op on any other build than condi /hybrid mirage, not even op on power mirage. The duelling trait change is just a pretty poor and ez way of balancing around the real issues of the few op builds.

'Why did u nerf my class, nerf the thing that killed me'

At the same time, I kinda hate the Vigor nerfs too on my power mirage. But I guess this is the lazy way of nerfing

This is the third thread mentioning a nerf from this patch that was unneeded. The other two were about the riptide nerf and the stability nerf to Condi rev, and those are just the ones I saw/remember.

This patch was just so disappointing... :/

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:'Why did u nerf my class, nerf the thing that killed me'

At the same time, I kinda hate the Vigor nerfs too on my power mirage. But I guess this is the lazy way of nerfing

You win this thread classic case of it.

MesmerNerfsAreAlwaysDeserved?

Plz more like you see more revs now because there was an interesting patch that changed a lot of shit.

"So long this class has been busted" yeah in the bad way maybe lol. Condition mesmer player complains about power rev, nothing to see here folks

Yeah condi mirage is still needs balance. Not as much as the last major nerf (that wiped out condi builds) but a happy medium between now and then.

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:Plz more like you see more revs now because there was an interesting patch that changed a lot of kitten.

"So long this class has been busted" yeah in the bad way maybe lol. Condition mesmer player complains about power rev, nothing to see here folks

For real.... that's one of condi mesmer's easiest matchups...

Condi mesmer complaining about power rev?

Is....is TC serious?

I agree. These nerfs were unnecessary. Half of vigor uptime removed. Wtf they just killed a spec in pvp that seemed pretty balanced. I don't get the balance philosophy. Why did necro get buffed if mesmer got nerfed? It's almost like a lottery. It becomes more and more obvious that pvp has the lowest prio for anet.

Find it really confusing that some players if mesmer are generally confused rhst their class got needed and seriously thought it was fine/underperforming..

I used to hate mesmers with passion before i made one and when i made one and started thinking about it there hasn't been a single patch in which mesmer wasn't nerfed cus of qq and pretty much every single meta build mesmers have ever had has been butchered to a point where it's not even playable any more and it was targeted nerfs at certain builds which also hurt the entire class cus of how the skill tree system in this game is

and yeah im complaining about power rev, lmao. I don't care if mes is good vs rev in 1v1 cus this game isn't 1v1 and has never been 1v1 and i doubt it'll ever be 1v1. My opinion of gw2 has changed many times and the game has also changed many times but the one thing that has NEVER changed for me is the stupidity and idiocy of insta cast teleport to target abilities that don't require line of sight that can be cast through walls with 1200 range (guard,rev, thief) cause they can pre-cast a damaging ability and tp into essentially 1shot on someone whos already fighting other people which is beyond imbalanced and then they even went ahead to buff core guard by reworking ray of judgement (altho that skill was garbage so it did need a rework but it comes at a time where core guard is already broken to stupidity and beyond) and revenant so now on higher elo good luck if u ever see a game without a kid abusing revenant/guard cus you're gonna need it for this to happen(and no it doesn't matter if they lose 1v1s cus they don't get insta killed-1shot in any 1v1s so they can easily disengage and go to a teamfight where they have big enough impact and right now core guard and rev are the most op classes without a doubt)

the mes stamina nerfs are also dmg nerfs and not just survivability nerfs cus vigor gives condi dmg and cus of mirage cloak and if you want stamina you need staff but staff is bad for anything outside of a fight on 1 point and u have a clear disadvantages against most other builds that can do that

Mesmer needs plenty more nerfs.Still broken as and unreasonably OP.

@incisorr.9502 said:but the one thing that has NEVER changed for me is the stupidity and idiocy of insta cast teleport to target abilities that don't require line of sight that can be cast through walls with 1200 range (guard,rev, thief) cause they can pre-cast a damaging ability and tp into

This is fake news and false information. Revenant’s phase traversal (our 1200 range tp) IS NOT instant cast. It has a cast time and VERY obvious animation that will almost always be immediately followed up by some sort of high damage attack.

It is also NOT POSSIBLE to precast any skill while using phase traversal. The skill is cast after the teleport finishes. Like I said, If you see them teleport at you there’s a really high chance you’re going to get a high damage skill thrown at you next, so you should dodge almost immediately after you see the teleport. Learn what the class is actually doing/capable of before making baseless false complaints about it.

The mesmer nerfs were not undeserved, they were just made wrong. The only builds need a nerf are condi and hybrid mirage. One big part of hybrid is the amount of dodges they get from axe 3 and illusionary ambush, what is not only an evade but also a target reset and has a big part of dmg generation. These skills are way stronger than a simple stealth but have very low cd. Even with doubled cd (like illusionary ambush should have at least 40 secs cd and would still be better than decoy) these skills would still be broken but Anet didn't even touch them. Instead they nerfed vigor generation on every possible mirage build that wasn't op at all like power mirage but also for every possible mesmer build from chrono and core using duelling line.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:but the one thing that has NEVER changed for me is the stupidity and idiocy of insta cast teleport to target abilities that don't require line of sight that can be cast through walls with 1200 range (guard,rev, thief) cause they can pre-cast a damaging ability and tp into

Yes Rev cannot pre cast but he can jump on you completely from out of sight with a very fast follow up. When you see him coming it is not a problem to evade but when he comes out of no where from behind a wall its annoying but yes guard teleport and thief teleport are a bigger problem in this regard.

@bravan.3876 said:Yes Rev cannot pre cast but he can jump on you completely from out of sight with a very fast follow up. When you see him coming it is not a problem to evade but when he comes out of no where from behind a wall its annoying but yes guard teleport and thief teleport are a bigger problem in this regard.

I mean this interaction with “out of sight teleports” has been around since game launch; it’s really not an issue. If a rev/thief/guard gets you with one of these it means they’re doing their job right. This is really just a l2p issue overall. Better map awareness is the key to preventing this sort of thing. It’s a team game; this is why you have 4 allies. Unfortunately solo queue doesn’t really promote communication, but these are the sorts of “issues” that aren’t actually issues because they are solved by proper team play, coordination, and awareness

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Yes Rev cannot pre cast but he can jump on you completely from out of sight with a very fast follow up. When you see him coming it is not a problem to evade but when he comes out of no where from behind a wall its annoying but yes guard teleport and thief teleport are a bigger problem in this regard.

Somehow true that team communication can make it less of a problem but1.90% of WvW and PvP content is solo or duo content (99% of the content is played wihtout voice communication even in mATs) and2.in a dodged based combat system every instant stuff in particular when can get started from out of los is just a stupid consept, same as traps you can precast and are completely invisible after that (not to mention the stupidity that the cd is refreshing after placing them already). It is ok to have some instant stuff you can combine other skills with for fancy combos but these stuff shouldn't make insane dmg or other big effects (long cc) by their own (like lame smite of conditon) and should not be able to use completely out of sight with having a high dmg or even oneshot combo at hand (like guard teleport).

@bravan.3876 said:Somehow true that team communication can make it less of a problem but1.90% of WvW and PvP content is solo or duo content and

I wouldn’t say 90% of wvw is solo. It’s really a mixed bag of roaming, small group roaming, and zerging with the latter obviously being a huge focus since it requires a mass amount of people. So still quite team based. Probably 50/50 or lower for solo based play in that mode.

Also pvp was designed as a team game and generally speaking functioned properly this way for most of the game’s lifespan until the removal of team queue in season 5. Even then team queue still exists in ATs and unranked. This is the type of gameplay that should be encouraged since the mode is designed around it. It’s not designed around solo/duo and certainly not designed around 1v1s, so the concept of ranked being solo/duo only or the game being balanced around that is just ludicrous to me. The removal of a mixed/ranked queue really is just antithetical to the game mode and I think it has been incredibly detrimental to spvp and the general pvp playerbase as a whole. As a side note, I have really strong opinions on this, so my thoughts on the matter are settled, so it’s likely best if we just agree to disagree on this one.

2.in a dodged based combat system every instant stuff in particular when can get started from out of los is just a stupid consept, same as traps you can precast and are completely invisible after that (not to mention the stupidity that the cd is refreshing after placing them already). It is ok to have some instant stuff you can combine other skills with for fancy combos but these stuff shouldn't make insane dmg or other big effects (long cc) by their own (like lame smite of conditon) and should not be able to use completely out of sight with having a high dmg or even oneshot combo at hand (like guard teleport).

Both revenant and thief are Assassin type classes, so it just seems wrong that they shouldnt be able to do those things and assassinate their targets quickly/near instantly. I mean, it’s literally what a good portion of their kit is designed for. It would be insanely weird for an assassin type class to have to essentially announce itself to its opponents before engaging, or worse be unable to do much damage when engaging from stealth, los, etc. Subterfuge, stealth, and assassination should all be major components of the Assassin archetype and should be rewarded for being used properly.

Hell I got +1 ganked by a thief today right as I was about to win a 1v1 at far. Was it annoying? Hell yeah! Was it cheap, broken, or OP? No! The thief was just doing his job and fulfilling his role/class archetype. Can’t blame him, balance, or Anet for that. And admittedly my awareness/team communication in that moment could have been better and helped to prevent that death

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Somehow true that team communication can make it less of a problem but1.90% of WvW and PvP content is solo or duo content and

2.in a dodged based combat system every instant stuff in particular when can get started from out of los is just a stupid consept, same as traps you can precast and are completely invisible after that (not to mention the stupidity that the cd is refreshing after placing them already). It is ok to have some instant stuff you can combine other skills with for fancy combos but these stuff shouldn't make insane dmg or other big effects (long cc) by their own (like lame smite of conditon) and should not be able to use completely out of sight with having a high dmg or even oneshot combo at hand (like guard teleport).

As said in a dodge based combat system these kind of instant stuff is bad design even when voice communication (what in fact barely happens) can reduce (not even completely delete) the problem/ lame aspect of it. I do not consider a d/p thief what is the purest +1 assasin style can stack stealth for sneaky rotations and unpredictable +1 op in general i'm just saying that an out of los instant teleport from max range directly to the target is a stupid concept. And power mesmer proves that the assasin +1 job can be done without such a teleport. Blink is very balanced in this regard, ground based target, needs los. Also i never got oneshotted by a thief out of stealth from full hp in PvP. Guard can do that, a d/p thief can't.

And no, an instant oneshot without any tell at all (sound or visible) completely out of nowhere should not be possible, not even for the assasin classes. Mesmer can't do it (has the burst for it but cannot attack out of nowhere without any tell and out of los if not stacking stealth with mass inv), Rev can't do it (no instant teleport and sound animation), most thief builds can't do it (only PvP). I do not consider a +1 fast kill on an already low hp and low cd target tunnelvision on his 1v1 as a oneshot.

ME: Boy im glad the subjectively OP claims and focus are finally not on DPS mirage anymore. grabs popcorn

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:ME: Boy im glad the subjectively OP claims and focus are finally not on DPS mirage anymore. grabs popcorn

The only problem with power mirages (or mesmer in general) is superiority complex what gives stupid high dmg even when failing your burst combo and gives constant high pressure with all skills on crit and broken or lame stuff like retargeting skills (axe 3, illusionary ambush) on way to low cd and max range no animation instant dmg like mantra of pain. Scholar rune also could get another 6. boni.

the fact that Mesmer has access to vigor at all is op. you literally have access to other evade mechanics and stealth with evade traits with less than 2 second cooldown.
condi mesmer is still strong, if not better now with sceptre buffs