"You're not Druid/Chrono? Bye bye then..."

This was after I made my own Fractal group as a Heal Firebrand seeking 4 DPS, I see that people are still being the same since these two elite specs came out, maybe it's time to nerf both of them to oblivion so people have to learn how to play the game right?

Nah, druid is somewhat fine. They could buff druids healing a bit and nerf spirits - spirits are the real offender anyway. The main-problem is chrono. Chrono is just superior to any other class at too much stuff; Chrono is also the only class with access to both alacritiy and quickness (and literally every other boon through Chaos). Many people already suggested to give other supports access to both alacrity and quickness, but that really won't help since it still wouldn't equalize the ridiculously powerful tool-kit Chrono has access to and of course the huge amount of defiance bar damage through Moa. Stuff like feedback, focus-pull or other stuff are just too nice to have and Moa is far too strong and needs some nerfing - maybe from 1.000 defiance bar damage to 500 or something like that to actually enforce some teamplay. Could also help to exorcize the god-complex some chronos suffer from.

So you want to get revenge via bad balancing? That would be no better than what is happening right now.

Also, if you play heal FB in fractals, people still don't learn how to play cause you carry too hard.

@Amineo.8951 ignore those players search for a guild that tends to team up, and does not care about wannabe elitist setups, PVE in this game is easy.

Those pseudo elite players found a game where they can excuse towards stats and classes and still being bad while looking elitist...

Its just gw2 players being themselves...following lame gimmicks to pretend they are good players, in a game mode that does not need them due how dull mobs and bosses are done.

@Amineo.8951 said:This was after I made my own Fractal group as a Heal Firebrand seeking 4 DPS, I see that people are still being the same since these two elite specs came out, maybe it's time to nerf both of them to oblivion so people have to learn how to play the game right?

Or you just move on and dont rant about such a small thing on the forums? There are always idiots in games. Yet demanding to nerf classes into uselessnes just cause you had some idiots is stupid.

@Xantaria.8726 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:This was after I made my own Fractal group as a Heal Firebrand seeking 4 DPS, I see that people are still being the same since these two elite specs came out, maybe it's time to nerf both of them to oblivion so people have to learn how to play the game right?

You can't deny that Chrono is blatantly overpowered in just about every regard. It's not about nerfing classes into uselessnes, it's about bringing them in line with others.

@Raizel.8175 said:

@Xantaria.8726 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:This was after I made my own Fractal group as a Heal Firebrand seeking 4 DPS, I see that people are still being the same since these two elite specs came out, maybe it's time to nerf both of them to oblivion so people have to learn how to play the game right?

Yes he is overpowered, but he didnt suggest some nerfs (even though i am rather for buffing alternatives instead of nerfing working systems, the only thing i would nerf is the 11 boon spamming). He suggested to nerf them into oblivion.

@Raizel.8175 said:Nah, druid is somewhat fine. They could buff druids healing a bit and nerf spirits - spirits are the real offender anyway. The main-problem is chrono. Chrono is just superior to any other class at too much stuff; Chrono is also the only class with access to both alacritiy and quickness (and literally every other boon through Chaos). Many people already suggested to give other supports access to both alacrity and quickness, but that really won't help since it still wouldn't equalize the ridiculously powerful tool-kit Chrono has access to and of course the huge amount of defiance bar damage through Moa. Stuff like feedback, focus-pull or other stuff are just too nice to have and Moa is far too strong and needs some nerfing - maybe from 1.000 defiance bar damage to 500 or something like that to actually enforce some teamplay. Could also help to exorcize the god-complex some chronos suffer from.

I agree, chrono is the only god tier class in the game currently. It would need some serious nerfs (not just 10-20% here and there, we are talking about 50%+ nerfs)

@Raizel.8175 said:You can't deny that Chrono is blatantly overpowered in just about every regard.Sure, that damage is way too OP [/sarcasm]

@Malediktus.9250 said:I agree, chrono is the only god tier class in the game currently.It's not god tier. It's just that all other support builds are trash tier.

Today my T4 run had a FB as healer and no druid/chrono in party, we did really fine. Everyone had between 9~15k dps.

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Raizel.8175 said:You can't deny that Chrono is blatantly overpowered in just about every regard.Sure, that damage is way too OP [/sarcasm]

@Malediktus.9250 said:I agree, chrono is the only god tier class in the game currently.It's not god tier. It's just that all other support builds are trash tier.

If we bring other builds to chrono level, bosses will drop to dps golem level of difficulty. Enough with the power creep.

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Raizel.8175 said:You can't deny that Chrono is blatantly overpowered in just about every regard.Sure, that damage is way too OP [/sarcasm]

DPS-Chrono isn't actually that bad with a benchmark of avg. 32.000 dps. Stuff like Reaper on the other hand is rejoicing finally beating the 30.000-border. You can also switch to Mirage which is also quite powerful and whose dps-benchmarks actually translate better into actual raid-scenarios due to losing no time due to Mirage's dodge-mechanics and due to having more bursty conditions. Sure, it's not really broken, but that's not the area where Chrono/Mesmer is broken anyway. Chrono is absolutely broken as support.

@Malediktus.9250 said:I agree, chrono is the only god tier class in the game currently.It's not god tier. It's just that all other support builds are trash tier.

...and that's just wrong. Other builds are fairly balanced. Chrono on the other hand brings:

• every single boon the game offers and the only class with access to both alacrity and quickness,
• ridiculously powerful defiance-bar-damage through Signet of Moa and various other skills, and
• several ridiculously powerful utilities/weapon-skills (focus 5, feedback, certain wells, etc.), who are superior in regards of usability and reliability.

Face it, Chrono as support-build is downright broken. It does nearly everything besides damage far too well. It's Chrono that is utterly broken; it's not that the other support-builds are trash. Especially usability and reliability are huge factors - the Chrono/Druid combo simply outshines other possible combinations like Renegade/Firebrand. Chrono is god-tier in terms of support.

@Raizel.8175 said:Face it, Chrono as support-build is downright broken. It does nearly everything besides damage far too well. It's Chrono that is utterly broken; it's not that the other support-builds are trash. Especially usability and reliability are huge factors - the Chrono/Druid combo simply outshines other possible combinations like Renegade/Firebrand. Chrono is god-tier in terms of support.Face it, there is simply no other true support build in the game - no other class/build that is being taken solely on the basis of support it offers. All other support options are either supposed to also do something else (dps or healing), or are taken primarily for their other functions, and the support options they offer are secondary.At some point banner warrior was almost at this point as well, but even then it was expected it would be doing some damage as well.That's why Chrono outshines all the competition - because the competition simply does not exist.

@segman.3560 said:If we bring other builds to chrono level, bosses will drop to dps golem level of difficulty. Enough with the power creep.Having 1-2 alternatives for chrono in the support role would not decrease the difficulty for the whole fight in the slightest. Not unless those alternatives would be even better in that role.

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I agree, chrono is the only god tier class in the game currently.It's not god tier. It's just that all other support builds are trash tier.

I think having 100% boon uptimes like currently possible is bad for the game. It should be almost impossible (= only with tremendous sacrifices in other places) to keep up 100% fury, 25 might, alacrity and quickness at the same time. You should have to make choices and use the boons when they would be most impactful.

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Raizel.8175 said:Face it, Chrono as support-build is downright broken. It does nearly everything besides damage far too well. It's Chrono that is utterly broken; it's not that the other support-builds are trash. Especially usability and reliability are huge factors - the Chrono/Druid combo simply outshines other possible combinations like Renegade/Firebrand. Chrono is god-tier in terms of support.Face it, there is simply no other true support build in the game - no other class/build that is being taken solely on the basis of support it offers. All other support options are either supposed to also do something else (dps or healing), or are taken primarily for their other functions, and the support options they offer are secondary.At some point banner warrior was almost at this point as well, but even then it was expected it would be doing some damage as well.That's why Chrono outshines all the competition - because the competition simply does not exist.

That's just wrong. If you want decent support-capabilities, you also need the corresponding gear since your function as whole is heavily gear-based. With support-gear, you literally won't do much damage at all - just like Chrono and Druid. Druid is also a support-build besides Chrono - it provides might, fury, unique boons through spirits and of course healing - basic support-functions. The same applies to builds like Auramancer, Quickbrand, Healing Firebrand or Support-Renegade. The problem is that these builds are totally disregarded simply because Chrono is utterly broken and provides everything. There is competition - Chrono just outshines it by dimensions.

@Aeolus.3615 said:@Amineo.8951 ignore those players search for a guild that tends to team up, and does not care about wannabe elitist setups, PVE in this game is easy.

Those pseudo elite players found a game where they can excuse towards stats and classes and still being bad while looking elitist...

Its just gw2 players being themselves...following lame gimmicks to pretend they are good players, in a game mode that does not need them due how dull mobs and bosses are done.

Your tinfoil hat overcharged and should be replaced immediately.

@Amineo.8951 said:Heal Firebrand seeking 4 DPS@Amineo.8951 said:so people have to learn how to play the game right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@segman.3560 said:If we bring other builds to chrono level, bosses will drop to dps golem level of difficulty. Enough with the power creep.Having 1-2 alternatives for chrono in the support role would not decrease the difficulty for the whole fight in the slightest. Not unless those alternatives would be even better in that role.

You can already swap chrono from FB+Rev, yet it's not good enough cause core mesmer offers too much :)

Thats what I said when nike posted a video about druid should be nerf (before anet nerf druid heal and spirit) I remember I said.. if druid is the problem.. then so is chrono. Chrono actually is the master class at the moment. It does need an adjustment.. sorry those who mained chrono ???

@Astralporing.1957 said:It's not god tier. It's just that all other support builds are trash tier.

I really think that is a fair statement. Look at the other supports, you have high dps supports that only offer a few boons/buffs like the old ps warrior, renegade giving alacrity, and I guess scourge giving barrier. Then you have the low dps supports who are doing healing like druid, heal rev, and firebrand.

Then you have chrono, a low dps support with no healing, or a zero dps support with non-neglible but also not amazing healing. There really arn't any other classes that are very comparable to it. Not just in terms of support output, but also in the ability to sacrifice personal dps to boost support.

Eh , they should probably hit sigil of concentration. Surprised it still exists in its current state. It's equal to 495 concentration.

@thrag.9740 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:It's not god tier. It's just that all other support builds are trash tier.

I really think that is a fair statement. Look at the other supports, you have high dps supports that only offer a few boons/buffs like the old ps warrior, renegade giving alacrity, and I guess scourge giving barrier. Then you have the low dps supports who are doing healing like druid, heal rev, and firebrand.

Thrag and Astral have it right.

First off, to anyone saying 100% boon up-time is overpowered I have this to say:

As long as 100% boon up-time is required for optimal performance, raid setups WILL achieve it no matter if by using 1, 2 or 4 classes (or more). Harping on that Chrono is to strong changes nothing here. Nerfing chrono will do nothing besides make the meta more restrictive since more slots have to go towards supports for 100% boon up-time.

That being said, there is multiple ways to approach this:

1.) bring more supports up to chronos level (with the downsides please. Unlike popular opinion, chrono does not bring decent dps when in a support role. Have other supports work in a similar way if need be).

2.) increase the amount of supports required in raids (which would require nerfing chrono). Overall the meta again becomes more restrictive, not an ideal solution but it would definitely bring more balance or potentially bring more balance

3.) rework required boons by either removing boons entirely from the equation or making them overall a non-factor by making it even easier to have 100% up-time on required boons. Either approach would work, both approaches would reduce the amount of depth the group composition has significantly since a factor gets removed

Chrono is NOT overpowered, it's mandatory in ideal setups. That is a significant difference term and balance wise. Being overpowered actually requires you to be able to compare the performance to other classes. There is no other support next to chrono. All other classes which provide similar boons vastly outperform chrono in other areas, only that those areas are not support related (see Firebrand or Revenant) thus they fail at meeting the criteria of being a pure support.

In a way Chrono is in a similar boat as warrior. Warrior is/was being taken along for the unique banners even while not being a top performer in certain areas (this actually changed with warrior seeing some buffs). Warriors were not overpowered, they are mandatory. Again here too there is a difference between both terms.

If you want chrono to not be mandatory, that is fine. But please adjust your arguments and terminology accordingly.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@thrag.9740 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:It's not god tier. It's just that all other support builds are trash tier.

I really think that is a fair statement. Look at the other supports, you have high dps supports that only offer a few boons/buffs like the old ps warrior, renegade giving alacrity, and I guess scourge giving barrier. Then you have the low dps supports who are doing healing like druid, heal rev, and firebrand.

This argument is a little silly tho. The only reason 100% boon uptime is nessecary in an ideal setup is because the tradeoff is worth it. If you make it so the tradeoff isn't worth it, it wouldn't be nessecary.

@yann.1946 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@thrag.9740 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:It's not god tier. It's just that all other support builds are trash tier.

I really think that is a fair statement. Look at the other supports, you have high dps supports that only offer a few boons/buffs like the old ps warrior, renegade giving alacrity, and I guess scourge giving barrier. Then you have the low dps supports who are doing healing like druid, heal rev, and firebrand.

That's what I said wasn't it?

See point 3.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@thrag.9740 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:It's not god tier. It's just that all other support builds are trash tier.

I really think that is a fair statement. Look at the other supports, you have high dps supports that only offer a few boons/buffs like the old ps warrior, renegade giving alacrity, and I guess scourge giving barrier. Then you have the low dps supports who are doing healing like druid, heal rev, and firebrand.

Not really.

I'm merely countering the argument that chrono isn't overpowered because 100% boon uptime is nessecary. The boon uptime is nessecary because chrono is that overpowered.

Look at it differently. If chrono would do 25k dps everyone would say it's overpowered. But the same argument still holds namely their is no direct comparison to another class.