Kako.1930 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Well, we're off and running with the new season now, and with it comes a new poll! Last season, the elementalist was voted as by FAR the most useless profession. What do you think now? What is the current most useless profession going into season 13 of PVP? Has anything changed? I'm eager to see what everyone thinks! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breno.5423 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 None is useless, meanwhile some are still broken though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 @breno.5423 said:None is useless, but some are still broken though.Broken as in too strong? Also, do you mean that when you enter a match and look at your team comp compared to the enemy's comp, you're never disappointed to see a certain profession (or multiples of a certain profession) on your team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breno.5423 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 @Kako.1930 said:@breno.5423 said:None is useless, but some are still broken though.Broken as in too strong? Also, do you mean that when you enter a match and look at your team comp compared to the enemy's comp, you're never disappointed to see a certain profession (or multiples of a certain profession) on your team?No, but i get scared when the other team owns a plat 2+ herald, or scourge + firebrand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil.1580 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 But, didn't ele get increased healing in PvP (riptide)?Oh, wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 @"bOTEB.1573" said:But, didn't ele get increased healing in PvP (riptide)?Oh, wait...Lol. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandrogh.1530 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Ele's & thieves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peutrifectus.4830 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Core engi. Useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 @Peutrifectus.4830 said:Core engi. Useless. This is just a general profession, not specific build poll though. So it's better to compare the best that each profession has than the worst.(I would say renegade if it was build specific though. XD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 It's still Ele.Sometimes the useless classes change but as it stands right now it seems that wasnt the case. Maybe Tempest is amazing now though still need to tinker with it. No class got an outright nerf though, so status quo as usual, give or take non scourge necro moving up a peg or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayPanda.1304 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Why are people voting Rev? Ele is clearly the most useless by far ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faux Play.6104 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 At low skill levels different classes will be useless than at high skill levels. A silver tier rev is going to be useless, a plat 2 rev will be strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 @JayPanda.1304 said:Why are people voting Rev? Ele is clearly the most useless by far ???What about that mesmer vote? People be trolling. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 @"Faux Play.6104" said:At low skill levels different classes will be useless than at high skill levels. A silver tier rev is going to be useless, a plat 2 rev will be strong.Generally speaking, the professions you rarely see in top tier but frequently see in lower tiers are on average less effective performers, and vice versa. Yes, there's always the outlier that eats, sleeps, and breathes guild wars and is able to make the least effective thing work for them, but you know... those are outliers...So yeah, a silver anything will seem weak and a plat 2 anything will seem strong, but only because of the player. For example, I got to plat 2 multiple seasons on my scrapper but it's not considered the best thing in the world on average, because it's much more common to see holosmiths or spell breakers or mirages in plat 2 than scrappers. So maybe the question would be better to think of as being like "which profession has the least chance of being #1 on the leaderboard without win trading?" I feel like I'm rambling, but I hope it makes sense what I was trying to say. Sorry if it doesn't though. I'm kind of out of it. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayPanda.1304 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 @Kako.1930 said:@"Faux Play.6104" said:At low skill levels different classes will be useless than at high skill levels. A silver tier rev is going to be useless, a plat 2 rev will be strong.Generally speaking, the professions you rarely see in top tier but frequently see in lower tiers are on average less effective performers, and vice versa. Yes, there's always the outlier that eats, sleeps, and breathes guild wars and is able to make the least effective thing work for them, but you know... those are outliers...So yeah, a silver anything will seem weak and a plat 2 anything will seem strong, but only because of the player. For example, I got to plat 2 multiple seasons on my scrapper but it's not considered the best thing in the world on average, because it's much more common to see holosmiths or spell breakers or mirages in plat 2 than scrappers. So maybe the question would be better to think of as being like "which profession has the least chance of being #1 on the leaderboard without win trading?" I feel like I'm rambling, but I hope it makes sense what I was trying to say. Sorry if it doesn't though. I'm kind of out of it. XDDo you cringe when you get an ele on your team? ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Too soon after patch to tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazySummer.2568 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 was playing my placements yesterday and i keep running into this one guy on enemy team that keeps abusing the matchmaker by queuing as ele and switching to support fb before the match starts. Lost 2 games against him because i was queuing as ele too then the 3rd game when he switched again I immediately switched to meta holo and got a win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 @JayPanda.1304 said:@Kako.1930 said:@"Faux Play.6104" said:At low skill levels different classes will be useless than at high skill levels. A silver tier rev is going to be useless, a plat 2 rev will be strong.Generally speaking, the professions you rarely see in top tier but frequently see in lower tiers are on average less effective performers, and vice versa. Yes, there's always the outlier that eats, sleeps, and breathes guild wars and is able to make the least effective thing work for them, but you know... those are outliers...So yeah, a silver anything will seem weak and a plat 2 anything will seem strong, but only because of the player. For example, I got to plat 2 multiple seasons on my scrapper but it's not considered the best thing in the world on average, because it's much more common to see holosmiths or spell breakers or mirages in plat 2 than scrappers. So maybe the question would be better to think of as being like "which profession has the least chance of being #1 on the leaderboard without win trading?" I feel like I'm rambling, but I hope it makes sense what I was trying to say. Sorry if it doesn't though. I'm kind of out of it. XDDo you cringe when you get an ele on your team? ???Pretty much. It's usually pretty hard for them to get more than a few steps out of spawn before being ganked. If I don't stealth them then they seem to have an 'Easy Target' sign glued to their backs. XDAlso, I just opened the thread for people to post when they feel like they have an answer. If anyone feels like they haven't seen enough yet, then feel free to come back and vote later. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 @LazySummer.2568 said:was playing my placements yesterday and i keep running into this one guy on enemy team that keeps abusing the matchmaker by queuing as ele and switching to support fb before the match starts. Lost 2 games against him because i was queuing as ele too then the 3rd game when he switched again I immediately switched to meta holo and got a winIt works, lol. Queue up on a useless profession that you know will drag you down if you get it on your team, and then switch to something good. You have less of a chance of getting it on your team that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahkeus.8243 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 WTF is this poll? It’s a yes/no question, but the response options is a list of all the professions., lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 @"Dahkeus.8243" said:kitten is this poll? It’s a yes/no question, but the response options is a list of all the professions., lol.Yeah, I thought about it after the fact, but the answers should be "yes, warrior is the most useless now," "no, ele is still the most useless," etc. XDI don't think I can change the options now, though. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breno.5423 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I would like to know who is voting for revenant hahaCrazy people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 @Kako.1930 said:@"Faux Play.6104" said:At low skill levels different classes will be useless than at high skill levels. A silver tier rev is going to be useless, a plat 2 rev will be strong.So yeah, a silver anything will seem weak and a plat 2 anything will seem strong, but only because of the player. For example, I got to plat 2 multiple seasons on my scrapper but it's not considered the best thing in the world on average, because it's much more common to see holosmiths or spell breakers or mirages in plat 2 than scrappers. So maybe the question would be better to think of as being like "which profession has the least chance of being #1 on the leaderboard without win trading?" I largely agree with your statement except that the "which profession has the least chance of being #1 on the leaderboard without win trading?" test is deeply flawed because it does not account for how top tier players can carry much harder when playing certain roles compared to others. In specific I am referring to how mobile hyper offensive builds such as power rev, core guard, power mesmer, and most thief builds are extremely potent at carrying solo q compared to the more defensive meta alternatives. When a top tier player q's into soloq, they will likely be playing against at least 3-4 players dramatically bellow their skill level, with a hyper offense build, they can farm those lower level players quickly and allow their team to spend most of the time fighting out numbered fights in their favor. The hyper offensive builds for the most part can't touch any of the tanky meta duelist builds on their own at equal skill level however those bruiser builds cannot stop the hyper offense player from rapidly farming the lower skilled teammates and then killing the duelist 3v1 with their own pugs. This kind of imbalance is a product of large skill gaps between players at the extremities of the skill bell-curve plus the basic nature of high risk/high reward builds achieving more more reward than low risk/low reward builds when the reward is acquired which I do not see as a balance problem. To emphasize my point, one piece of advice that I have heard streamers like Sindrener give to players who get stuck in matches where they are out skilled by everyone around them is to play something survivable so that they don't become food for the opposing team's hyper offensive carry; if they can stay on their feet, they can let their own teammates carry them much more easily than if they also try to play glass and just get blown up at every turn. So instead of focusing on the build most likely to get #1 on the leader board, a more appropriate test for balance would be what classes are the most likely to simply reach platinum and which classes see the most success in automated tournaments? At platinum 1, at least in theory, players will generally be decent enough to be used as reasonable references for balance while being plentiful enough to allow smaller gaps between the top player skill and the bottom player skill in a given game. In games where players are all evenly skilled, hyper offense becomes much less potent while supports and bruisers become essential. Judging balance off of AT performance follows this idea when you get the later rounds in the tournaments, as they tend to bring most of the best players into the same matches. Another potential reference would be the custom arena scrimmages a lot of top tier players like to do. This would probably be the best source of data except it would be difficult for devs to actually get anything useful from it without directly asking the involved players for their opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddbopkins.2630 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Ele is still the worst? I havnt played yet this season, been busy with work and like lifeness stuff...ill be trying fa scepter/f ele this weekend, i dout it will be any better since nothing got changed on it but w.e. it my favorite play style.Eddit added: And of course ele will still be the worst all they did was buff sword i think....and leave the other 2 specs core and tempest alone so why should it be different now that i think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crann.1342 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Hey, hey guys, listen...Elementalist isn't underpowered, everything else is just overpowered :)just wait till anet nerf the other specs ;) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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