PvP Now Is Not Fun — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PvP Now Is Not Fun

Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

How many times have you fought a deadeye and think afterwards that you've had a fun and engaging game play experience?
How many times vs mirage? FB Scourge?

What I'm getting at is a problem with PvP now compared to PvP in the past. The builds that are created because of poor design decisions by the developers are incredibly unfun to play against. Sure they may be fun to play, but consider that there is another player, who is just as much a paying customer on the receiving end of your class design. Skills like Dagger Storm / Axes of Symmetry, and traits like Elusive Mind / Rousing Resilience are not fun to face. When it takes more work to counter a strategy than it takes to execute it, you have poor design.

My point in short:
EVEN IF IT IS BALANCED, IF IT IS NOT ENJOYABLE TO FIGHT AGAINST IT IS NOT GOOD CLASS DESIGN.

I am positive this is driving players away from pvp. I've seen the frustration in my friends, who drift away and stop playing because the game mode they care about is no longer fun to play. We used to duel for hours to get better, organize scrims and inhouses for fun and now, nothing. Maybe once a few months we'll organize matches with only core classes to try to relive the game we fell in love with years ago. but with the power creep and unengaging mechanics that have been introduced since the base game, we're left unfulfilled. We feel abandoned by the developers as patch after patch we are let down and left feeling cynical about the future of the game. It doesn't help when even some promised features (~9 Months Ago) never appear. The stuff that does arrive is usually bungled and dead-on-arrival. We would love to help but everything we suggest seems to fall on deaf ears.

I'm no content creator or important figurehead, but I think I've got enough exposure to the pvp community to read its pulse. Its not very good.

<13

Comments

  • Alehin.3746Alehin.3746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2018

    It's a "bad experience" because the elite specs aren't and will never be designed for PvP, not sure why it's so hard to understand/accept that

  • It's very unfun, also the fact that they don't come up with new ideas, I mean it's only been 6 years now and all that happened was stronghold and a new map.

  • Abazigal.3679Abazigal.3679 Member ✭✭✭

    It depends what you consider " bad design " . On top level, i have no major issues with condition spamming although it's not really fun like the OP said. On low level, anyone running a scourge or a reaper is going to faceroll 3/4 of his opponents without even requiring any map knowledge.

  • PLS.4095PLS.4095 Member ✭✭

    Hot was unfun too , balance only before Pof.
    Pof will be balance, but new expansion whive op nobraIn spec Inc just after.
    Anet just want ur money baby,

  • the risk to reward factor has definitely been skewed as time goes on, but im still having fun. I don't take this game too seriously because its clear that pvp/ wvw isn't the main focus. I like most of the class designs, I think the developers did a great job, but some are too spammy/ hard to kill/ do too much damage.

  • 100% agree with OP in every point. I love generally love PvP, but it became so exhausting to play since PoF. And instead of trying to fix some inherent design issues of the PoF specs, older traits and skills are powercreeped immensely to keep up somehow. Hence, PvP more and more becomes a very punishing and frustrating experience and in such steadily killing my enjoyment of the game.

  • NICENIKESHOE.7128NICENIKESHOE.7128 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2018

    Ships have sailed and there's no turning back.

    6 years has past and anyone can tell their focus is not on PvP. Balance will only be more PvE oriented now that they're pushing for more challenging content in PvE, as oppose to easy open world/dungeon/LW experience that leaves room for any PvP/WvW adjustments without hurting end game PvE. Heck I'd argue there are more players playing fractals/raid combined than PvP and skewing balance towards PvP have the potential to drive players away from those modes.

    Best way to resolve what OP mentioned, unfun class design, was functional split between PvP/PvE. Unfortunately ANet has made a pretty solid stance against it and we're likely only to see numbers change.

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • Scar.1793Scar.1793 Member ✭✭✭

    If I’m solo everytime I see a mirage or deadeye from afar I know I’m dead. If you get the upper hand they have ten thousands teleports/stealth to reset the fight and catch you back once they are ready. Very awful and I played rogue in WoW for years. PvP in GW2 is mostly a joke tbh, burst meta where everyone dies in seconds 80% of the tile except for holo/spellbreaker who have disgusting sustain and damage.

  • Sorem.9157Sorem.9157 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2018

    I've mentioned something like this awhile ago in a different thread

    @Sorem.9157 said:

    Tbh, i do not think that balance is the MAIN issue with the game right now. Instead, i think that generally the power creep is too high, and that makes it unfun. Active defenses do not require THAT much more skill anymore simply because they are so spammable on some classes. Warrior can achieve nearly 100% invuln time for quite some time if they are landing their burst skills properly. Mirage, Thief, Weaver speaks for themselves. I don't need to elaborate on how frustrating it can be to try to pin those down. Holos can pack up so much CC they don't even need to think too much about interrupting key skills, chances are that if they just spam it, eventually they'll land a good one. Firebrands can just fart endless boons and heals without thinking too much. Everything is very spammy and, despite being generally balanced, it makes the game unfun and frustrating. Most classes have BOTH too much burst and too much defense and those that don't end up underforming heavily. Not to mention the favorability of high mobility classes on the conquest format.

  • OP, you are correct.

    Although class balance is important, it suffers if there's bad class design to go with it. I mean, on what planet did anyone think that the design of Deadeye, Holo, Mirage and Scourge were a good idea? Just....why? Sure they're fun to play, but game designers REALLY need to consider if they're fun to play AGAINST. Because the answer is clearly...no! They're NOT fun to play against! Bad class design leads to powercreep and elite specs with too much damage and defense.

    Nevertheless, I've accepted that pvp will always languish and suffer since the devs have favoritism toward pve-oriented class design. Let's be honest folks, elite specs were designed for PVE.

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭

    That is why I play legal lemons with my friends. The new Blitz mode ofc.

  • Yamazuki.6073Yamazuki.6073 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2018

    @SoulSin.5682 said:
    The drama is real.

    I think that, if we were to keep it short: there are way too many specializations and people are starting to have trouble keeping track of how to fight every one of then.

    There isn't really that many. They simply aren't really designed for competitive pvp, just small attempts at balancing for it. If the amount mattered then games like league with over 100 champions, several with multiple different build/play styles, would be overwhelming, as well as most shooters with the hundreds of combinations. GW2 is rather simplified in comparison. It's just those games have a pvp focus, GW2 has multiple forms of pve, spvp and then wvw to worry about, and can't design exclusively around pvp. This causes pvp to be unfun, and even when certain setups are 'weak' they will never be enjoyable to play against even when you win. This isn't a problem exclusive to GW2 either, look at all the games with big pvp, they aren't MMORPGs for a reason.

  • Remove the „now“

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2018

    I have to kinda agree, for me, maybe im old and slow, but i feel theres to much burst and to much cc and the res potential from a few classes(that are played excessively) are way over the top. The classes that do burst all have big advantages while while having little counters and only specific builds can counter those advantages leaving most builds and play styles uselss vs these ranged and high bursty classes.

  • I wonder how things would go if just core classes could PvP, or create PVP versions of core classes? Maybe that would be easier to balance. As somebody else said though, MOBAs manage to balance with way more classes than GW2...

    I really can't figure out how they think Mesmers, Deadeyes, and Spellbreakers are fun to play against for the average player - I think they need to get some feedback from staff who don't pvp as a reality check. The only reason I hang in there with ranked is for the rewards.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kako.1930 said:
    heart of thorns wasn't too bad, but path of fire was over the top. It's made me super salty. :(

    Except the first two seasons where balance was so broken that you either played as Chrono or Tempest and did nothing but just sit in the point not dying, or you played other classes and tried to play for the few points without a Chrono or a Tempest on them if any. There were instances of people just giving up and waiting for the timer to end while chatting and dancing on points.

  • @Alehin.3746 said:
    It's a "bad experience" because the elite specs aren't and will never be designet for PvP, not sure why it's so hard to understand/accept that

    Yes, they are, and several of them were pretty much designed entirely for PVP/WvW (scrapper, spellbreaker, scourge).

  • Alehin.3746Alehin.3746 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    @Alehin.3746 said:
    It's a "bad experience" because the elite specs aren't and will never be designet for PvP, not sure why it's so hard to understand/accept that

    Yes, they are, and several of them were pretty much designed entirely for PVP/WvW (scrapper, spellbreaker, scourge).

    I meant well designed

  • Archer.4362Archer.4362 Member ✭✭
    edited September 3, 2018

    The only thing he thinks about, is in drawing designs in the gem store and in how many chairs we can sit in the game.

    Anet has completely abandoned the pvp system, however much they say otherwise.

    The system was going from bad to worse, and on top of that the only thing that entered the people was the last era to be among the 100, or 250 first for the title, they take it away.

    good work anet. And as you notice that you do not answer a single message as before, there are five that do not respond or a message from people as you did before, answers 1 in 100, and that does not take anything in the response, which is implemented in the future, that is giving more problems than you thought.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2018

    @Ryan.9387 said:
    How many times have you fought a deadeye and think afterwards that you've had a fun and engaging game play experience?
    How many times vs mirage? FB Scourge?

    1v1s? All of them almost always... Maybe not dagger on DE.
    Conquest? Again almost always with the exception of FB with a team that doesn't deal with it.

    @Ryan.9387 said:
    What I'm getting at is a problem with PvP now compared to PvP in the past. The builds that are created because of poor design decisions by the developers are incredibly unfun to play against. Sure they may be fun to play, but consider that there is another player, who is just as much a paying customer on the receiving end of your class design. Skills like Dagger Storm / Axes of Symmetry, and traits like Elusive Mind / Rousing Resilience are not fun to face. When it takes more work to counter a strategy than it takes to execute it, you have poor design.

    PvP has barely changed, it has historically been a revolving door of apex predators being stacked in comps. Compared to imba builds of the past like never die cele or valk ele, hambow, petting zoo, etc. We have much better balance now. Yes more is demanded of you as a player to outplay your opponent and their kit, but it's much better than face roll comps that win solely because of their builds in the game type.

    You may not find it fun to wait for a mirage to waste their doge, or to evade their fairly obvious burst. Nor may you enjoy playing around things like War's Rousing Resilience. Sucks, but if you want a game where you just win because of your build and matchup you take any meaning out of individual skill.

    Sure somethings might not be incredibly fair, and be literally to safe for it's strength, but you haven't even mentioned any of them thus far. Everything you have highlighted is strong but has more than enough counter play.

    You mentioned people getting bored with the game type, well maybe conquest itself is the problem? I don't find conquest fun, but I realize it's subjective.

    Also how is "only core" matchups going to be fun for any build that isn't 'as mechanically complete' without elite specs? Maybe you find it fun because you run those, and anything you are finding problematic now is a problem because it's actually on par?

    Really the game has always been "read then punish" or "roll something that doesn't need to read and can live" or the long term problem with apex predators where they "don't need to read very well, can live but can punish equally as hard without getting off the point" We have come quite a bit far from vastly over performing apex predators that only really over perfrom because of conquest, and they at least when most pop up they have clear enough flaws that having good supporting comp matters now.

  • @Ryan.9387 said:
    How many times have you fought a deadeye and think afterwards that you've had a fun and engaging game play experience?
    How many times vs mirage? FB Scourge?

    What I'm getting at is a problem with PvP now compared to PvP in the past. The builds that are created because of poor design decisions by the developers are incredibly unfun to play against. Sure they may be fun to play, but consider that there is another player, who is just as much a paying customer on the receiving end of your class design. Skills like Dagger Storm / Axes of Symmetry, and traits like Elusive Mind / Rousing Resilience are not fun to face. When it takes more work to counter a strategy than it takes to execute it, you have poor design.

    My point in short:
    EVEN IF IT IS BALANCED, IF IT IS NOT ENJOYABLE TO FIGHT AGAINST IT IS NOT GOOD CLASS DESIGN.

    I am positive this is driving players away from pvp. I've seen the frustration in my friends, who drift away and stop playing because the game mode they care about is no longer fun to play. We used to duel for hours to get better, organize scrims and inhouses for fun and now, nothing. Maybe once a few months we'll organize matches with only core classes to try to relive the game we fell in love with years ago. but with the power creep and unengaging mechanics that have been introduced since the base game, we're left unfulfilled. We feel abandoned by the developers as patch after patch we are let down and left feeling cynical about the future of the game. It doesn't help when even some promised features (~9 Months Ago) never appear. The stuff that does arrive is usually bungled and dead-on-arrival. We would love to help but everything we suggest seems to fall on deaf ears.

    I'm no content creator or important figurehead, but I think I've got enough exposure to the pvp community to read its pulse. Its not very good.

    Good points, this is exactly how I feel.

    Balance is the best it has been in years. But balance doesn't mean much when everything is equally annoying to play against

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2018

    I don't like it in conquest, but I really do find it fun playing the waiting game dodging deadeye snipes 1v1.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think it would help if buffs weren't so plentiful in spvp and wvw and cds so low.

    Nukes are too strong and one shot, and ccs are overkill.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

<13
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