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Broken Deadeye


Nidome.1365

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I must admit I haven't taken much of a look at the deadeye spec myself but came across one last night that seemed to be broken.A group of us were attacked by a single deadeye.The first sign that a deadeye was present was when I saw the "target mark" appear on me. less than a second later I took a 35k burst and went down. The Deadeye appeared for a split second before stealthing again.Two others immediately started reviving me but before they could get me up the deadeye used a finisher on me while remaining stealthed.Then the next player was targeted and downed by a single burst in the same way and this process repeated until we were all down.The only time the deadeye was visible was for a brief instant at the end of his burst until we were all dead when he did a little dance where he stealthed and reappeared many times in quick succession.Later on we encountered him again but despite a grid of stealth traps we were unable to defeat him because as soon as he was revealed he'd just re-stealth.

Such a build is completely stupidly overpowered. At the very least make the reveal of a stealth trap non-removable please?

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You should try rifle Berzerker. I think Gun Flame still tracks a stealthed target if you've activated it on them beforehand? So many fun times seeing a downed thief reappear in the distance, or just look for their smoke wall thing and cleave the area. Doesn't fix player's desires to play stealth camping builds but it sure feels good giving them their own medicine.

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Yes game is broken and deadeye is just one problem (probably most annoying one). Anet could give old specs at least some kind of tools to put up the fight. Funny how they add new boon and for some reason old specs don't have any access to this boon. Anyways new specializations should add new alternative way play class not upgrade old all possible ways. :disappointed:

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@"MUDse.7623" said:that 35k burst was more than 1 hit i assume?also if they immediately start reviving you, they rez you faster than the 3,5s stomp animation.You can stomp quicker than that with quickness.

But regardless, the issue with the thief (not so much just deadeye) has always been its ability to reset its burst insanely fast while in stealth. Most other classes that can do burst has one chance and then its some time to reset.

That also said you seem to have brought a poor setup to counter such a build. These particular tp-stealth thieves generally require evasive classes such as mesmers or heavy AoE condi such as the necro. In your case, unless you happened to be necro being downed first - since its one of the few classes that can even reach 35k hp - a single fear mark would have brought you up and defensive marks would have shown him long enough for a condi nuke.

Using a "grid of stealth traps" is completely pointless. No one use stealth traps.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"MUDse.7623" said:that 35k burst was more than 1 hit i assume?also if they immediately start reviving you, they rez you faster than the 3,5s stomp animation.You can stomp quicker than that with quickness.with daredevil elite yes, normal stomping is not affected by quickness or slow.But regardless, the issue with the thief (not so much just deadeye) has always been its ability to reset its burst insanely fast while in stealth, not so much the damage of that burst. Most other classes that can do burst has one chance and then its some time to reset.

That also said
you seem to have brought a poor setup to counter such a build. These particular tp-stealth thieves generally require evasive classes such as mesmers or heavy AoE condi such as the necro. In your case, unless you happened to be necro being downed first - since its one of the few classes that can even reach 35k hp - a single fear mark would have brought you up and defensive marks would have shown him long enough for a condi nuke.

Using a "grid of stealth traps" is completely pointless. No one use stealth traps.

hey i triggered more than 10 anti stealth traps this matchup already, people use those traps. when i tried flipping the academy earlier 4 people came to defend as i was on lord and already planted traps before engaging me 4 vs 1 !but you are correct those traps are mostly pointless. because in a 1 vs 1 you will die within the 4s setup time on most builds that have enough burst to kill a deadeye. when you outnumber the deadeye and use those traps you just give him a reason to play it very safe, not to risk anything as there might be a trap.people seem to have a hard time understanding that a deadeye allways picks his fights. that means a good deadeye is unlikely to lose a fight he started. if he attacks your group of 5, then he surely has a plan how to kill one of you and get away with it. maybe he knows your slow to rez etc.when on openfield dont give a deadeye a reason to think you might be a target worth picking, bring a supporter when running in small groups for example. then the deadeye might try once but if the supporter is reacting quickly, then there is no point bothering as he wont get a kill anyway. when you are in a structure and that is where i run into most anti stealth traps, just leave and sent someone to gank the deadeye at lord. this is something many have an issue with, here they want to at any cost pick the fight themselves and play very inefficiently in trying to do that. it is really not hard ganking someone that is busy fighting a lord.

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The only issue I think we have at the moment is a contradiction in the deadeye elite and stealth traps. The whole reason the traps were added was to prevent perma-stealth builds from doing exactly what deadeye's are doing. I get the point of the elite, and removing revealed, yet it runs contrary to the whole point of the reveal trap. It seems like more of an oversight on Anet's part, and it would be really nice if they would at least comment.

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@Ubi.4136 said:The only issue I think we have at the moment is a contradiction in the deadeye elite and stealth traps. The whole reason the traps were added was to prevent perma-stealth builds from doing exactly what deadeye's are doing. I get the point of the elite, and removing revealed, yet it runs contrary to the whole point of the reveal trap. It seems like more of an oversight on Anet's part, and it would be really nice if they would at least comment.

but they never stated that, thats just what they have been used for.deadeyes main new mechanic is malice, wich interacts with Stealth Attacks. a trap that disables stealth for 30s also disables stealth attacks and quite a bunch of other thief stuff ontop of just the invisibility other class gain from stealth. so deadeye depending on build needs stealth to even function, therefore i highly doubt that it is an oversight. many fights are over in less than 30s, disabeling most parts of your opponents build for such a time without any counterplay would be pretty stupid design, dont you think?but i would like them to look into it, they might realize that the traps are mostly used to hunt single opponents in large packs were one would think you dont need an out of build advantage ontop :3

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:The only issue I think we have at the moment is a contradiction in the deadeye elite and stealth traps.
The whole reason the traps were added was to prevent perma-stealth builds from doing exactly what deadeye's are doing
. I get the point of the elite, and removing revealed, yet it runs contrary to the whole point of the reveal trap. It seems like more of an oversight on Anet's part, and it would be really nice if they would at least comment.

but they never stated that, thats just what they have been used for.deadeyes main new mechanic is malice, wich interacts with
Stealth
Attacks. a trap that disables stealth for 30s also disables stealth attacks and quite a bunch of other thief stuff ontop of just the invisibility other class gain from stealth. so deadeye depending on build needs stealth to even function, therefore i highly doubt that it is an oversight. many fights are over in less than 30s, disabeling most parts of your opponents build for such a time without any counterplay would be pretty stupid design, dont you think?but i would like them to look into it, they might realize that the traps are mostly used to hunt single opponents in large packs were one would think you dont need an out of build advantage ontop :3

I only see the traps used to try to prevent a single deadeye from permanently contesting a keep for 8 straight hours and on tower defenses from hopefully stopping a portal bomb. It works on the latter, and not on the former, but it should. Every build in the game (or action) should have a counterplay. Right now, there is 0 counterplay to a permastealth deadeye contesting a structure (by doing all of 0 damage to it). It would just be nice for Anet to clarify if this is working as intended. Anet could always go another route, and just make it so that only siege damage can contest a structure, that would solve both problems. It would allow deadeye the ability to avoid the 30 second reveal of the traps (or any other reveal source) and prevent the abuse that the trap seems intended to prevent.

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@Ubi.4136 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:The only issue I think we have at the moment is a contradiction in the deadeye elite and stealth traps.
The whole reason the traps were added was to prevent perma-stealth builds from doing exactly what deadeye's are doing
. I get the point of the elite, and removing revealed, yet it runs contrary to the whole point of the reveal trap. It seems like more of an oversight on Anet's part, and it would be really nice if they would at least comment.

but they never stated that, thats just what they have been used for.deadeyes main new mechanic is malice, wich interacts with
Stealth
Attacks. a trap that disables stealth for 30s also disables stealth attacks and quite a bunch of other thief stuff ontop of just the invisibility other class gain from stealth. so deadeye depending on build needs stealth to even function, therefore i highly doubt that it is an oversight. many fights are over in less than 30s, disabeling most parts of your opponents build for such a time without any counterplay would be pretty stupid design, dont you think?but i would like them to look into it, they might realize that the traps are mostly used to hunt single opponents in large packs were one would think you dont need an out of build advantage ontop :3

I only see the traps used to try to prevent a single deadeye from permanently contesting a keep for 8 straight hours and on tower defenses from hopefully stopping a portal bomb. It works on the latter, and not on the former, but it should. Every build in the game (or action) should have a counterplay. Right now, there is 0 counterplay to a permastealth deadeye contesting a structure (by doing all of 0 damage to it). It would just be nice for Anet to clarify if this is working as intended. Anet could always go another route, and just make it so that only siege damage can contest a structure, that would solve both problems. It would allow deadeye the ability to avoid the 30 second reveal of the traps (or any other reveal source) and prevent the abuse that the trap seems intended to prevent.

what do you mean with contesting? i could aswell make a nomad nike warrior and nothing you could do against me contesting the keep. you only need to be there once every 3 mins. you could even go naked attack, die , respawn, repeat. i think your focus here on stealth of the deadeye is a little misplaced in that 'issue'.a structure if it only gets 'contested' by siege damage, damage to the lord or player damage to the gate below a certain threshold, then you would be safe from i think all kinds of just trolling. i mean still 2 players could keep comming, build a cata and fire but that is technically an attack ?

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@MUDse.7623 said:but i would like them to look into it, they might realize that the traps are mostly used to hunt single opponents in large packs were one would think you dont need an out of build advantage ontop :3

The main reason for this is because we want them out of our tower or keep, like you said before the 4v1 happened inside their tower.

I have had several encounters last week where I and my group all have had a very unfun 5-10 minutes in WvW because of a permastealth thief stealthressing his buddies that remain on the ground in keeps. Now that used to be fine, place down some stealth traps and scout around. If the thief happen to be a deadeye now this does not work and instead we are resigned to very passive gameplay of... staring at a corpse. If anyone on the WvW devteam ever had to do corpse duty I bet you we would see a change is short order.

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@LaGranse.8652 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:but i would like them to look into it, they might realize that the traps are mostly used to hunt single opponents in large packs were one would think you dont need an out of build advantage ontop :3

The main reason for this is because we want them out of our tower or keep, like you said before the 4v1 happened inside their tower.

I have had several encounters last week where I and my group all have had a very unfun 5-10 minutes in WvW because of a permastealth thief stealthressing his buddies that remain on the ground in keeps. Now that used to be fine, place down some stealth traps and scout around. If the thief happen to be a deadeye now this does not work and instead we are resigned to very passive gameplay of... staring at a corpse. If anyone on the WvW devteam ever had to do corpse duty I bet you we would see a change is short order.

oh yeah the rezzing. i understand that it is problematic and i have been part of the issue alot.there is 1 thing anet should change IMO. when you die you have a timer of 5 minutes. when some rez you 1 tick that timer gets reset to 5 minutes, it wont show on the visual timer but it will reset. so with that i once had a mesmer corpse that was guarded by 20 people and so it was difficult to rez, it took ~1 hour and rez was successfull. then she moved a few meters and died again. that obviously wouldnt work if the timer would not reset. i understand they made a timer reset so that if someone starts rezzing shortly before its over, you dont get teleported halfway through rezzing. instead they should make it so you dont get teleported while someone is rezzing you but the timer shouldnt reset at all.now to deal with current issue many people do it wrong trying to prevent the rez. so it will take ages. because they spamm AoE wich is fine but they spamm it only right on the corpse. so the thief can dodge to the corpse and start rezzing. getting infight doesnt interrupt a rez but you cant start rezzing if you are already infight. so if you spread AoE in a larger area also around the corpse for 5 minutes, then it should disappear. yet 5 minutes is a long time, not sure if we actually ever need to stay dead that long could aswell reduce it to maybe 1 minute? then you have to guard it as long as a mesmer portal.

=> so remove timer reset on rezzing and reduce the timer. it should indeed not be possible to endlessly res especially a mesmer inside enemy keeps and towers. i have to admit its soo good i have a 2nd set ascended nomad gear with mercy runes just for that..

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@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I started farting around (for trolling purposes) with a ghost sniper DE. Def not gonna take over as my main, however when im bored its nice to have a backup. Id like to know how they are hitting for anything over 12k damage.

^^This.OP makes it sound like Deadeye came, marked him, 1 shot...pfffffffff...35K down.And his 2 friends couldn't revive him in time before the stomp.But wait let me guess.......you were pressing 1 in downstate instead of 4 for a faster revive....right?

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@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I started farting around (for trolling purposes) with a ghost sniper DE. Def not gonna take over as my main, however when im bored its nice to have a backup. Id like to know how they are hitting for anything over 12k damage.

^^This.OP makes it sound like Deadeye came, marked him, 1 shot...pfffffffff...35K down.And his 2 friends couldn't revive him in time before the stomp.But wait let me guess.......you were pressing 1 in downstate instead of 4 for a faster revive....right?

I can see this (again, this is an observation from me farting around of DE myself as ive only started trying it on Wednesday night)

Mark > kneel > #1 > TRB (while with quickness) > TRB (quickness) > TRB (quickness) (OP downed) > stealth and move in and stomp

My guess is also not everyone know he downed so by the time multiple people figured it out and went to res, it was too late.

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@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I started farting around (for trolling purposes) with a ghost sniper DE. Def not gonna take over as my main, however when im bored its nice to have a backup. Id like to know how they are hitting for anything over 12k damage.

^^This.OP makes it sound like Deadeye came, marked him, 1 shot...pfffffffff...35K down.And his 2 friends couldn't revive him in time before the stomp.But wait let me guess.......you were pressing 1 in downstate instead of 4 for a faster revive....right?

Well arguing high damage its pretty pointless. Some players just optimize fully for it on a class they know exactly how to play and/or macro. A thief should be capable of that. It apply to all classes. I've seen a measly guardian dump 25k+ damage in 0.2 seconds on 1800+ toughness.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I started farting around (for trolling purposes) with a ghost sniper DE. Def not gonna take over as my main, however when im bored its nice to have a backup. Id like to know how they are hitting for anything over 12k damage.

^^This.OP makes it sound like Deadeye came, marked him, 1 shot...pfffffffff...35K down.And his 2 friends couldn't revive him in time before the stomp.But wait let me guess.......you were pressing 1 in downstate instead of 4 for a faster revive....right?

Well arguing high damage its pretty pointless. Some players just optimize fully for it on a class they know exactly how to play and/or macro. A thief should be capable of that. I've seen a measly guardian dump 25k+ damage in 0.2 seconds on 1800+ toughness.

With only 1 stack of malice however, it would (imo) require a LOT of perfect scenarios to achieve (both glass canons, OP being light armored, attacker neding every damage boost known PLUS to be ghost at the same time). Ill have to do some math next time I am on as it seems very unlikely 1x 1 stack malice DJ did that much.

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:there would be a simple solution: reduce thief and mesmer damage by 75%. Either be able to use stealth OR do damage.Low risk/low reward. Simple.

But they are in love with those two classes. And the rest sufferes.

Yea, then you will be more condi builds of these 2 classes running. You think condi mirage is a problem now, wait til this happens :trollface:

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On my own warrior I use On My mark. If used in conjunction with other players and the stealth traps (as Mudse stated these traps little use in a 1v1 unless pre placed) you can peel off thise hide on reveals pretty quick. There no reason the combined resources of 5 different people can not have reveals enough to out number the resources of the Thiefs "stealth on reveal" which is 2 in 45 seconds. Port to's and Taunts can also be very useful.

Reflect/block the malice builders and dodge the DJs. If cognizant of the fact that DJ unblockable and your blocks/reflects will not work on it, once marked do not waste dodges on the attacks thief uses to malice build. With numbers move in a group. What a Thief wants to do is get each of a group moving in a different direction so that he can single out the next target. If you the unfortunate with the mark use the others as cover as you move to where you expect thief to be.

Channled attacks combined with reflects will do in a DE rifle user pretty quick. I have reflected Via daggers trom with my own thief after being marked and followed up with a ranged attack that followed that thief into stealth and downed the same more then once. Timing on your reflect is important. if you use an only source too early thief will wait it out. You almost have to tease him into making his shot.

Ranged attacks tend to be the bane of DE thief as so many follow into stealth. Killshot, Unload rapid fire are examples. Where DE thief has an advantage against a group is he does not have to coordinate his defense with another. The group chasing him down will often use their own skills willy nilly rather then time one off another.

Now a MUCH harder fight is a group against two lookalike DES. It very hard to focus one down as they can gt that target drop, weave in and out of stealth and rez the other if the other downed. The lookalike can break down a groups discipline in a hurry. They can also make it look like it ONE thief with 4 skills that remove reveal:)

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