I actually miss the hot meta in pvp and wvw

Holly hell anet slow the game down. Everything is super spam Blinky and feels so cheap. Doesn't matter if it takes skill to do theres nothing fun about blinking and being dead. Out numbered fights feel so unfun. They used to at least have some play now its just chain cc and super dead.

On a side note I would pay money to play vanilla guild wars 2 pvp make it happen cause this is getting worse and worse.

Man I really really miss old gw2, while the pve is far better gdamn the PvP and wvw fights suck so much now. The pace makes the old quickness stomping seem like matrix bullet time.

Oh well guess I'll go play other games that have far better pve too.

The meta towards the end of HoT era was pretty good and balanced. But it took them one and a half year to get there.

Well we're one year into PoF and the game is far from having an healthy balance.

@Exciton.8942 said:The meta towards the end of HoT era was pretty good and balanced. But it took them one and a half year to get there.

And one day to delete it.

The Hot Meta was waaaaaay worse then PoF. Unnerf DH longbow? Epidemic? Old condi shout necro? 100% Dmg reduction? Unnerfed CoR that oneshotted full soldier gear Guards and had 15targets and double Hits? Unnerfed boonchare Mesmer? The kitten staff burn guard? The condi stealth meta? There was so much wrong with HoT WvW. Please put down the nostalgia Glases. I would never trade the PoF Meta for that.

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:The Hot Meta was waaaaaay worse then PoF. Unnerf DH longbow? Epidemic? Old condi shout necro? 100% Dmg reduction? Unnerfed CoR that oneshotted full soldier gear Guards and had 15targets and double Hits? Unnerfed boonchare Mesmer? The kitten staff burn guard? The condi stealth meta? There was so much wrong with HoT WvW. Please put down the nostalgia Glases. I would never trade the PoF Meta for that.

Literally all of those builds are still in the game and are just even stronger now. (Just switch the elite specs and boon mesmer for firebrand) Lol the condition stealth build was a meme, now is power perma stealth getting 1 shoted out of stealth has never been so prevelant.

You literally need a spreadsheet to understand all the random ass aoes and efffects in the game now. And it's all scourges and firbrands now before you could share have a comp without those two now youfn need them. Roaming is even worse as there's still a crap ton of passives and Anet's too scared to nerf them in wvw "because there's way too much aoes in wvw" their words. Not to mention you just get super bursted by everything now. Once your stunbreaks are on CD your fucked. (Which damn near happens in the first few seconds of team fights)

And hell at least condi reaper had to be in melee range and could be countered very easily by your standard support tempest. Lol have you seen the new power reaper talk about reaper on crack.

It's out of damn control. Had they implemented less aoes and had the specs be more single target maybe it would be better but dude it's all insta teleport rezes

@Eleazar.9478 said:

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:The Hot Meta was waaaaaay worse then PoF. Unnerf DH longbow? Epidemic? Old condi shout necro? 100% Dmg reduction? Unnerfed CoR that oneshotted full soldier gear Guards and had 15targets and double Hits? Unnerfed boonchare Mesmer? The kitten staff burn guard? The condi stealth meta? There was so much wrong with HoT WvW. Please put down the nostalgia Glases. I would never trade the PoF Meta for that.

None of the builds i talked about are still in the game. If they were, People would scream for nerfs. Can you her immun to Power dmg and that permanent? Can you be also immun to condi dmg thanks to old diamant Skin? Can you still Spam 30+ bleeds (aoe) with no tells as a Single necro and then aoe bomb guildgroups with epidemic? Where is your Boon Mesmer that can give all boons permanent for a 50man zerg(ok you Need like 3). And i did not mean the thief build. I mean guild Squads playing the condi bomb from stealth. Believe me. HoT was the worst Meta we ever had.

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Eleazar.9478 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The Hot Meta was waaaaaay worse then PoF. Unnerf DH longbow? Epidemic? Old condi shout necro? 100% Dmg reduction? Unnerfed CoR that oneshotted full soldier gear Guards and had 15targets and double Hits? Unnerfed boonchare Mesmer? The kitten staff burn guard? The condi stealth meta? There was so much wrong with HoT WvW. Please put down the nostalgia Glases. I would never trade the PoF Meta for that.

They are and people do. And now you just power bomb out of stealth. And you used to run boonshare mes because the other classes provided the boons now why do that when firebrand has everything and a crap ton of healing. It's only missing alacrity. The hilerous part your leaving out is alot what your you mentioned was at the end of the hot cycle and literally only became prevlent a few months before PoF dropped.

There was condi bombs but there were also melee trains and front and back lines now it's just winds and bomb with scourges. A guy goes down boom instant rezzzzzz.

And now with all the necro and firbrands the team fights are messy and full of effects. Wvv is such a meme now. Which sucks because now with all rewards it's profitable but now I don't like playing it because the core game play loop is such trash.

It's funny they nerfed boon share even though they were adding a crazy amount of boon rip and corrupt 6months later.

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The Hot Meta was waaaaaay worse then PoF. Unnerf DH longbow? Epidemic? Old condi shout necro? 100% Dmg reduction? Unnerfed CoR that oneshotted full soldier gear Guards and had 15targets and double Hits? Unnerfed boonchare Mesmer? The kitten staff burn guard? The condi stealth meta? There was so much wrong with HoT WvW. Please put down the nostalgia Glases. I would never trade the PoF Meta for that.

Mate pre hot was the best. That was balance. The moment hot released was the moment the balance was killed. POF only made it worse.

Agreed, the game has become too spammy.

Often there's not enough time or energy to react to anything, .. in PvE, WvW, and PvP, every game mode, most classes now have to rely on those passive defenses that trigger when you take so much damage, and their only purpose is just to give you enough to respond with your own spammy, uncounterable burst, I mean the game is practically a MOBA now with how twitchy you have to play it in combat.

They really need to slow it down to the pace that it had at release, when people actually lived for more than five seconds, and the average DPS that you could do even in hybrid gear wasn't several times higher than the base health of some classes.

Such is the nature of power creep, I guess.

@Hannelore.8153 said:Agreed, the game has become too spammy.

Often there's not enough time or energy to react to anything, .. in PvE, WvW, and PvP, every game mode, most classes now have to rely on those passive defenses that trigger when you take so much damage, and their only purpose is just to give you enough to respond with your own spammy, uncounterable burst, I mean the game is practically a MOBA now with how twitchy you have to play it in combat.

They really need to slow it down to the pace that it had at release, when people actually lived for more than five seconds, and the average DPS that you could do even in hybrid gear wasn't several times higher than the base health of some classes.

Such is the nature of power creep, I guess.

I think what's a big portion is too many utility skills are on too low of a cooldown and have wayyy to many effects. Often times a meta build is just which skills have the most effects (stunbreaks cleanse boon)

Personally, I don't like this spammy instant dead Meta, which is why I stopped playing gw2. I just wish ANet start nerfing everything to slow things down or just call the game mode a FPS and we should be good.

@Emtiarbi.3281 said:Personally, I don't like this spammy instant dead Meta, which is why I stopped playing gw2. I just wish ANet start nerfing everything to slow things down or just call the game mode a FPS and we should be good.

I like skills doing good damage but I don't understand why they can't put tells and long cds like every other good PvP game

I play two specs mainly: Power Soulbeast and Ventari Revenant.

The Soulbeast I am happy with. I don't like running Sic Em or OWP unless there's a Deadeye around because it feels cheesy, but beyond that I don't see too much of an issue with the spec's balance because they didn't get THAT much added to their kit and I feel like the powercreep didn't hit Soulbeast nearly as much as most other PoF specs. The spec is fun to play and I absolutely love roaming with it. There are better roaming specs out there, but I still hold my own and have a blast doing it.

Now Ventari Revenant is a different story. Absolutely totally eclipsed by Firebrand. I have very strong feelings towards Minstrels Firebrands and how absolutely busted they are in WvW. I don't know what the fuck ANet was thinking by giving them literally everything they could ever ask for (except Alacrity, which they can technically get via boon conversion). I laugh when I see a roamer duo with a FB because even if you somehow manage to down the other guy, boom Merciful Intervention or Stab spam rezzes. The spec is disgusting and both the tomes and mantras are responsible for this. It is not the only busted spec from PoF, but when I play Ventari Rev in WvW (because I know better not to step into PvP with it) I feel like a neglected stepchild, and funnily enough I feel like the most recent patch made it worse. I sound like a broken record with how much I repeat this, but it's frustrating to feel like my build is invalidated by another and ANet does nothing to bring down FB beyond dinky number changes, which will NEVER have any legitimate impact with the way they've been doing it.

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

Now Ventari Revenant is a different story. Absolutely totally eclipsed by Firebrand. I have very strong feelings towards Minstrels Firebrands and how absolutely busted they are in WvW. I don't know what the kitten ANet was thinking by giving them literally everything they could ever ask for (except Alacrity, which they can technically get via boon conversion). I laugh when I see a roamer duo with a FB because even if you somehow manage to down the other guy, boom Merciful Intervention or Stab spam rezzes. The spec is disgusting and both the tomes and mantras are responsible for this. It is not the only busted spec from PoF, but when I play Ventari Rev in WvW (because I know better not to step into PvP with it) I feel like a neglected stepchild, and funnily enough I feel like the most recent patch made it worse. I sound like a broken record with how much I repeat this, but it's frustrating to feel like my build is invalidated by another and ANet does nothing to bring down FB beyond dinky number changes, which will NEVER have any legitimate impact with the way they've been doing it.

I feel you.

I personally believe that every support spec/legend (tempest, ventari, druid, firebrand, chrono, scrapper) should have the same access to AoE stability and resistance. They are vital boons in WvW and the amount of stacks/duration should be standardised among the specs. That way every support is somewhat equally useful.

From there you can then specialise in whatever your build offers. Mantras, tomes, tablet, and so on.

I know that homogenization is boring and that the devs try to avoid it but I think this is the only way to make more support builds viable.

The people who complain about the game being too lethal now also actively complain about Firebrand, Druid, Spellbreaker, and Weaver sustain.

@mortrialus.3062 said:The people who complain about the game being too lethal now also actively complain about Firebrand, Druid, Spellbreaker, and Weaver sustain.

See it's not dps or bunker it's skill bloat, aoe bloat (effect not just damage), and too low of CDs.

For example deadeyes DI isn't annyoing just cause damage fuck it should do a fuck ton of damage. It's that it's unblockable and fired from stealth with little tell.

It's not that firbrands heal well it's that they heal well cleanse and boon support constantly

It's not that scoruges do alot of damage it's that they cover a huge AOE that courrupts and damages and provides support

It's not that spellbreakers are tanky it's that they can very good damage, contoll and be super sustainy

Druids aren't really an inssue in PvP anymore but when they were it was that they could, stealth, control while haveing the pet do damage.

Notice a theme going on here it's power creep on things that are not just damage. Increase in CDs, and some restraint of bloating skills would go far in helping the combat

@mortrialus.3062 said:The people who complain about the game being too lethal now also actively complain about Firebrand, Druid, Spellbreaker, and Weaver sustain.

Also look at how strong core skills have gotten take for example quickening zeph on ranger which has already been a common pick now is just fn nuts. High quickenss/cleanse/fury/stunbreaks/superspeed all on. 32 second cd

@Eleazar.9478 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:The people who complain about the game being too lethal now also actively complain about Firebrand, Druid, Spellbreaker, and Weaver sustain.

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Eleazar.9478 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:The people who complain about the game being too lethal now also actively complain about Firebrand, Druid, Spellbreaker, and Weaver sustain.

EXACTLY! well they just lowered the CD 2 balance patches ago, before it was like 40 something when traited. (its not eben the worst offender i use it because i main ranger all other classes have skill bloat way worse than this just look at the meat builds)They keep buffing already good skills what they need to do nerf the stronger skills mayeb not the effects but the CDs for sure, if ts going to clean your house and fix yor car,, there should be a cost involved. Ya its fun when skills are powerfull its not fun when theyre powerfull and spammable

I miss the summer 2017 meta. That was some good stuff.

I would never want to go back to pre-HoT, because then Reaper wouldn't exist.

All I remember from the HoT meta were those bunker tempests that stood on a capped node and could tank the entire enemy team's damage.

@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:All I remember from the HoT meta were those bunker tempests that stood on a capped node and could tank the entire enemy team's damage.

That's only cause the amulets. You had pre nerf cele, clerics, crusaders anet got rid of em cause tougness and healing power are OP and nobody had access to boon rip. And was only a issue for 1-2 seasons.

@Crinn.7864 said:I miss the summer 2017 meta. That was some good stuff.

I would never want to go back to pre-HoT, because then Reaper wouldn't exist.

Fair enough while I love the elite specs my issue is alot of them and core skills have become super bloated and have very low CDs.

Personally I think season 5-6 were fantastic when it came to balance and fights in PvP.

For wvw I really do miss the year before hot dropped, I had some of the best times in the game. In wvw you really didn't need much of a comp due to the less aoes, lower sustain and damage. I remember taking out mini zergs with just a few of my buddies and spending late nights in OS watching gvgs and dueling omg dueling used to be the shit it was Soo much easier to snowball fights and punish mistakes due to higher CDs now fuck dueling outside of PvP there's so much wack ass builds omg. I made alot of friends on rival servers and really felt part of a community. For a long time wvw was hurt by alot poor design decisions and I saw alot of guilds drop off that year and wvw quickly dwindled. I remember me and my guild were so bored some match ups we would see who last the longest against enemy spawn legendary guards.

So back in the day Anet wanted all sPvP to become an esport. In order to do so they wanted to speed up the game play by lowering time to kill. The problem is MMOs sPvP does not have an esport audience and MMOs in PvP in general operate much better as a battle of iteration versus one shot.

The result, even with extremely low time to kill, GW2 is not and never will be an esport. It is also lackIng in any strategic gameplay and is barely balanced.

Note, I do not want bunker meta, but time to kill should be much higher than it currently is.