Uniting the community again...

(I know Anet probably won't do much here but if this idea is extremely well received, they might consider it.... hopefully.)

When team queue was removed, the community split into 2. With duo queue being added into the equations, the community then split into 3. We're constantly fighting with each other now.

My proposal is this: Lets cater to everyone and unite the community again.

Solo queue leaderboards:This should be a 2v2 format to better represent the solo player skills while also allowing duo, give a leaderboard for it. The current format was designed for 5v5 anyway as you lose points based off a loss or gain based off a win, there's nothing in the current set up to actually reflect on the player.

Team queue:Re-enable team queue for parties, have team leaderboards with team names.

Still have AT's or Swiss for those looking to be even more competitive as the team queue leaderboards will most likely be filled with players like myself, the ones who want to farm stuff with friends/guildies and generally just have a good time while also subconsciously trying to push for a better team rank spot to compare to other teams within the guild.

Community thoughts?

I am not playing this season. My suggestion is simple. Solo Q only for ranked. ATs for pro pipers to have fun with friends. Unraked remains same old build test chillzone.

@BadMed.3846 said:I am not playing this season. My suggestion is simple. Solo Q only for ranked. ATs for pro pipers to have fun with friends. Unraked remains same old build test chillzone.

So basically no changes other than solo-only for ranked (which is lol) and let PvP just die off slowly?

@pah.4931 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:I am not playing this season. My suggestion is simple. Solo Q only for ranked. ATs for pro pipers to have fun with friends. Unraked remains same old build test chillzone.

Do you think THIS is living lol?

That slow organic death of pvp is better than the poison season 13 brought back. Leaderboard is laughing stock.

you guys are just proving my point..

@FyzE.3472 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:I am not playing this season. My suggestion is simple. Solo Q only for ranked. ATs for pro pipers to have fun with friends. Unraked remains same old build test chillzone.

Their arguments have been baseless from day 1. Although, I do get arenanet's position on this. They basically allowed the game to be social and sacrificed the match balance. Intent was good however consequences are evident. Duo simply provides way better opportunities to manipulate your way to the top. Match balance is way off across all tiers. How can we consider this fun.Oh..and queue times are only getting worse.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I really hope these duo queue supporters can come up with better reasons to justify killing agame mode.

@"sephiroth.4217" said:you guys are just proving my point..

Hey we have people who blame "PvErs" for the dying game mode and when said how toxic and unwelcoming the player base is they point out that XYZ is toxic too so the toxicity is not to be blamed...So I am really not surprised about this sadly.

@BadMed.3846 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:I am not playing this season. My suggestion is simple. Solo Q only for ranked. ATs for pro pipers to have fun with friends. Unraked remains same old build test chillzone.

I don't support duo queue. I support logical leaderboards -- and ranking people based on solo performance in such a team-reliance mode as Conquest is silly. It is such bad design and philosophy that it leads to all sorts of nasty things (like win-trading, the need for decay, people playing ranked in peak times ONLY, toxicity, horrible "meta" and fotm garbage... etc).

This is not what they should have done from the beginning, but that ship has sailed, so this is what I THINK they should do now:

1. Either 1) on-demand ATs or 2) team-queue only for Ranked play. If you want to compete with the best of the best, you should want to have a team and should want to play against other teams. This is the only mode that has a leaderboard.
2. Unranked is solo- or team-queue. It is built around having fun and farming pips. More game modes (conquest, sure, but also capture the flag, click-to-capture nodes, etc) with different sized teams (not just 5v5).

@Solidaris.5423 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:you guys are just proving my point..

I was more pointing out the differences..

people that got pushed out of team queue that had team queue for years to make room for solo play brought in solo players who weren't around prior to the changes say having duo queue and team queue ruins the game...

my suggestion is to cater to all... Give us teamies our game back and give solo queue players a more accurate reflection of personal skill.The current format that you lose and gain soley off a win or loss was designed for teams, not solo.

yes I remember when the whole communtiy was united against PvE players but now weve all been turned against each other advocating to remove each other from the game...

Sadly only a few things can fix the issue at hand with pvp. Any would work well.

• 2 separate ques. One for solo only. The other for if you are on a team of 2, 3 or 5.

• move past the non competitive circlequest maps.

• Actually ban players that win trade or cheat of some sort. ( no temp ban wrist slaps).

• Make ranked a 2v2 or solo only area, add more tournaments so people can constantly play with a 5 man team if they want to.

If you want to be heard then vote now!

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53646/how-goes-the-wintrade-wars#latest

Good to see someone trying a constructive discussion. :smile:

Regarding how much effort they put into the gamemode (how many months just for a different tournament system?), I do not think we ever get a 2on2 gamemode. The new gamemode is thought to make full teamQ more competitive by giving more and on-demand games, right? Once the system comes, full teamQ might be solved. Maybe add a team-based leaderboard then as well, we'll see.

However, I actually like conquest with 5on5. And with many games played, the leaderboard for solo players usually was quite accurate - with a lot of volatility due to high impact of last games, class balance and yes, wintrading. This can be the way to go for soloQ in my opinion, if they'd put some more effort in solving those things.

Where should duoQ go then? Or teams of three, when they want to play competitively and not in unranked? Well... either improve the matchmaking of unranked or let them play with ranked teams, but maybe lower the impact of those games for solo-players? And don't account these games for those who duoQ for the leaderboard? I don't know... but I very much doubt a 2on2 gamemode will be the solution. Not because it would not be an actual solution, but because we will never get it.

@Megametzler.5729 said:Good to see someone trying a constructive discussion. :smile:

Regarding how much effort they put into the gamemode (how many months just for a different tournament system?), I do not think we ever get a 2on2 gamemode. The new gamemode is thought to make full teamQ more competitive by giving more and on-demand games, right? Once the system comes, full teamQ might be solved. Maybe add a team-based leaderboard then as well, we'll see.

However, I actually like conquest with 5on5. And with many games played, the leaderboard for solo players usually was quite accurate - with a lot of volatility due to high impact of last games, class balance and yes, wintrading. This can be the way to go for soloQ in my opinion, if they'd put some more effort in solving those things.

Where should duoQ go then? Or teams of three, when they want to play competitively and not in unranked? Well... either improve the matchmaking of unranked or let them play with ranked teams, but maybe lower the impact of those games for solo-players? And don't account these games for those who duoQ for the leaderboard? I don't know... but I very much doubt a 2on2 gamemode will be the solution. Not because it would not be an actual solution, but because we will never get it.

IIRC we already have a 2v2 map but it's stuck in customs, and Ben did bring up sometime back that they were working on special 2v2 tournaments for the AT system. Hopefully it'll roll out with the on demand ATs.

@Lucentfir.7430 said:

@"Megametzler.5729" said:Good to see someone trying a constructive discussion. :smile:

Regarding how much effort they put into the gamemode (how many months just for a different tournament system?), I do not think we ever get a 2on2 gamemode. The new gamemode is thought to make full teamQ more competitive by giving more and on-demand games, right? Once the system comes, full teamQ might be solved. Maybe add a team-based leaderboard then as well, we'll see.

However, I actually like conquest with 5on5. And with many games played, the leaderboard for solo players usually was quite accurate - with a lot of volatility due to high impact of last games, class balance and yes, wintrading. This can be the way to go for soloQ in my opinion, if they'd put some more effort in solving those things.

Where should duoQ go then? Or teams of three, when they want to play competitively and not in unranked? Well... either improve the matchmaking of unranked or let them play with ranked teams, but maybe lower the impact of those games for solo-players? And don't account these games for those who duoQ for the leaderboard? I don't know... but I very much doubt a 2on2 gamemode will be the solution. Not because it would not be an actual solution, but because we will never get it.

Oh, that'd be nice. But, tbh, I doubt they can implement pretty much anything looking at the state of PVP now. The word "swiss-ssystem" exists only to trigger us, I believe. :lol:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"BadMed.3846" said:I am not playing this season. My suggestion is simple. Solo Q only for ranked. ATs for pro pipers to have fun with friends. Unraked remains same old build test chillzone.

1. Will cry about losing to duos.
2. Won't notice it when they WIN because of duos.
3. Will cry about wintrading instead when it was solo only.
4. Never get better because they never blame themselves for their losses.
5. Refuse to duo que and make things harder for themselves, rather than just taking what was given to them and rolling with it.
6. Crying duo is unfair even though they can duo as well. When, in actuality, the only "unfairness" is the difference in skill.

It's the truth. NONE of these people realize that the extra losses balance out with extra wins when they get these high tier duos on their team. They'll win more because of them, they'll lose more because of them. Over the course of the season, these will balance out 50/50 (the same chance of whether you're up against or matched up with the duo(s)).

Duo just brought more top players back to the game and made matches very, very fun for the higher end of the leaderboards. The majority of what the people for solo que are complaining about makes little to no sense.

Their arguments can be summarized into, "Top tier players have 100% win ratios and I'm ALWAYS against them. Remove duo from the game please."

Sounds fun, but IMO it'd be best with no elite specs available. This would be to prevent cheese (eg. double permastealth deadeye, double mirage, etc.) and have an overall better combat experience.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"BadMed.3846" said:I am not playing this season. My suggestion is simple. Solo Q only for ranked. ATs for pro pipers to have fun with friends. Unraked remains same old build test chillzone.

1. Will cry about losing to duos.
2. Won't notice it when they WIN because of duos.
3. Will cry about wintrading instead when it was solo only.
4. Never get better because they never blame themselves for their losses.
5. Refuse to duo que and make things harder for themselves, rather than just taking what was given to them and rolling with it.
6. Crying duo is unfair even though they can duo as well. When, in actuality, the only "unfairness" is the difference in skill.

Whenever someone says "it's the truth!!!" it usually isn't. Statistically they are right, because of probability. There are 5 free slots on the enemy team, 4 on their own.

But that is not the topic of this discussion. I would be happy if you'd elaborate the others.

I'm glad they removed titles for this season. Curious to see what anet thinks post season

@BadMed.3846

There's a new thread every day where the OP complains about losing to duos.

First, there's nothing stopping them from duoing themselves.

Second, duos aren't unbeatable.

Third, you call it manipulation when it's really just you getting out-skilled by good players. 4Head

@BadMed.3846 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:I am not playing this season. My suggestion is simple. Solo Q only for ranked. ATs for pro pipers to have fun with friends. Unraked remains same old build test chillzone.

Duoq is not needed to manipulate matchmaking at all. It is a consequence of low population. League of Legends has matchmaking abuse with groups of more than 2 people at higher MMRs, and you can't que with more than 2 people unless you do Flex, which didn't exist originally either. Removing duoq just causes less people to be interested in playing, while anyone who had the intent to manipulate the system gets to do it even better.

What's so wrong about both teams having a duo? If one team has a duo and the other doesn't, it gives an advantage to the team with the duo. If you have to wait longer for Q pop if you are a duo, well, that's just what happens to get duo vs. duo fights.

@shadowpass.4236 said:@BadMed.3846

There's a new thread every day where the OP complains about losing to duos.

First, there's nothing stopping them from duoing themselves.

Second, duos aren't unbeatable.

Third, you call it manipulation when it's really just you getting out-skilled by good players. 4Head

woa woa woa... I dont complain about losing to duos... only time I have was when naru and vallun knocked me into silver at the start of seasons a long time ago

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:@BadMed.3846

There's a new thread every day where the OP complains about losing to duos.

First, there's nothing stopping them from duoing themselves.

Second, duos aren't unbeatable.

Third, you call it manipulation when it's really just you getting out-skilled by good players. 4Head

Yeah it wasn't @ you. ^^

@Rufo.3716 said:What's so wrong about both teams having a duo? If one team has a duo and the other doesn't, it gives an advantage to the team with the duo. If you have to wait longer for Q pop if you are a duo, well, that's just what happens to get duo vs. duo fights.

Think about comparing one person's skill to another. It is easier to determine who is stronger and where they belong. Now think about comparing combined skill of 2 individuals with another 2. Things get very complicated. Many other things come into play. E.g teamwork, class composition. Yet individual rating is the one that is measured and considered. I don't think matchmaking is smart enough to work with such dynamic.

The thread wasn't meant to determine whether duoQ should stay or be removed... but looking for ideas to please everybody.

I repeat my question: Will swiss-style tournaments solve the issue with "ATs being not fun nor competitive"?