What are your opinions on Thief?

What are your opinions on Thief right now in PvP? Do you think it's balanced? Useful?

For Deadeye, I would suggest making it so that missing with Death's Judgement should either make you lose all malice or one/a couple of malice points. I see a lot of people complaining about this playstyle but I think this is a fair compromise. The class itself doesn't seem much more unfair than Ranger (1500+ range, stealth, mobility, rapid fire, AoE, vulnerability stacks, pet, etc) and there is still counterplay contrary to popular belief.

Deadeye is horrible to play against. New dagger storm is horrible to play against, but D/P makes games fun to play on both sides.

These days thief makes me want to quit the game it's so obnoxious. I didn't even want consider quitting during the OP scourge/FB days. A good thief can basically be unkillable with the combo of perma stealth and mobility.

Are you talking Thief in general or just DE?Because your post seems concerned only about DE.

The only elephant in the room that comes to mind among the thieves specs is rifle deadeyes, which is almost in the same boat as a regular p/p thief was, extremely deadly but at the same time very niche and countered by situational awareness and pressure. The stealth camping from it is cheesy and can be a nuisance however it is ultimately crutch and rarely do they ever give me any real trouble unless I'm in an area where I can't los and playing something without decent range and/or teleports. In regards to balancing it, imho such a spec should be relying on good positioning so I'd tone down the stealth first, bringing back the cd for silent scope and get rid of the ammo of shadow meld would be a start.

Deadeye was designed for PvE and has serious issues in PvP/WvW.

1. It's too weak in competitive conquest and doesn't fit any legitimate role
2. It can hit 19k malicious backstabs FROM STEALTH in WvW which is absolutely ridiculous. At least with Death's Judgement there's an audio cue so you can dodge it. With malicious backstab there is no warning. You just stealth and touch someone on the back and gg, you win the fight. The most broken thing in WvW right now by far

Every balance issue that has existed in the game can be traced back to the thief class. If at one point or another felt that a build on any class you were running is overpowered or underpowered, its because of thief.

Thief was supposed to have been redesigned back in vanilla, if you want to know what a perfect class looked like, look for footage on a good vanilla era feline grace 30 trait point trickery thief. As few as 3 thieves used to wreck mini zergs in WvW

I mained the class for a couple years since necro wasn't going anywhere. Thief really should not have been built the way it is. Its the reason why many people complain about balance today.

As a Thief main - Thieves and Daredevils are pretty balanced both sPvP and WvW.DE in WvW however needs frequency of stealth access reduced and Malicious Backstab damage reduced for there to be acceptable counter-play.

@Turk.5460 said:As a Thief main - Thieves and Daredevils are pretty balanced both sPvP and WvW.DE in WvW however needs frequency of stealth access reduced and Malicious Backstab damage reduced for there to be acceptable counter-play.

As someone who recently starting to fart around in WvW with a ghost sniper (for lolz only), I agree.

I mained daredevil for a few years and i remember when ghost condi thief was a thing. Took anet forever to deal with it. Looks like ghost thief v2.0 now. Wonder when it will get dealt with

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Turk.5460 said:As a Thief main - Thieves and Daredevils are pretty balanced both sPvP and WvW.DE in WvW however needs frequency of stealth access reduced and Malicious Backstab damage reduced for there to be acceptable counter-play.

Sad when a counter to stealth (revealed) is only counter countered by DE lol

DE = The stealth-sniper garbage everyone with an understanding of the class warned about. Literally directly addressed in my very proposal for the Deadeye. Permastealth already existed with D/P + SA prior to Silent Scope as it was, and such concepts strictly suck in sPvP while are broken in WvW.

Malicious Backstab was just a stupid thing to add (because it only really has any effect with sustained-stealth builds) but it also sadly the only way to actually kill anything with MH dagger with so much invuln spam and damage reduction (looking at you, Holosmith, where 4k power and 261 crit damage = 4k backstab).

DE is the proof ANet does not design their content at all around the PvP modes; it's borderline pointless in one and a cancer in another. But it magically solves all of the thief's woes in raids.

Core thief? Fair to play as and against with SwEq nerfed, if not weak.Daredevil? Still marginally annoying depending on the build and generally thief++, but still reasonably fair.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:DE is the proof ANet does not design their content at all around the PvP modes; it's borderline pointless in one and a cancer in another. But it magically solves all of the thief's woes in raids.i think they dont balance around WvW 'roaming' at least what people make that mode to be. because i think what many do as 'roaming' is not really efficient if WvW was played competivie. but the main underlying issue for that is unfixable population inbalances, it is just impossble to get even numbers over 168 hours without major queues.the question is wether anet should balance for WvW in the way people play it or around the modes actual design?

The worst designed base class + 2 worst designed elite specs.

The class relies on one of the most binary skill in the game, i.e. steal. Landing a steal or not is literally night and day difference to a fight. And the counterplay to steal is pure guess game. The other main mechanics of the class, stealth is also pretty much a guess-game which makes the class completely unfun to play against.

DaredevilThe elite spec gives an already high-mobile class even more mobility. Not sure what they want to achieve there. Just thief 2.0 with all the bullshit design.

DeadeyeMost already predicted how a sniper archetype doesn't work in GW2 combat and they are right. The recent rework made it into another heavy stealth reliant spec which is completely unfun to play against

@Exciton.8942 said:The worst designed base class + 2 worst designed elite specs.

The class relies on one of the most binary skill in the game, i.e. steal. Landing a steal or not is literally night and day difference to a fight. And the counterplay to steal is pure guess game. The other main mechanics of the class, stealth is also pretty much a guess-game which makes the class completely unfun to play against.

DaredevilThe elite spec gives an already high-mobile class even more mobility. Not sure what they want to achieve there. Just thief 2.0 with all the kitten design.

DeadeyeMost already predicted how a sniper archetype doesn't work in GW2 combat and they are right. The recent rework made it ino another heavy stealth reliant spec which is completely unfun to play against

Ill agree only with DE opinion.But the Main thing i do not agree: its not guessing, its prediction ;pAnd for me its not funny to get through 10 s of invul to power dmg with warrior combined with his dmg while being tanky. Every class has some diffrent ways of staying alive, thief has mobility. Seems like u had some bad experience with few thiefs in the past...

Core: its fine the way it is. One of few core professions that actually works. More core professions should work.Daredevil: its fine the way it is. Someones gotta be the fastest, cant see why it cant be thief. DD works as intended.Deadeye: its fine the way it is. Longbow rangers have been doing it for years so i cant see or understand why ppl cry about it. Also DJ is predictable and easy to dodge.

By far the least threatening class in WvW regardless of the build.

Difficult to catch but the actual combat power (even in 1v1 where the class supposed to excel) is lower than any other class on a proper build/elite (zerlings aside).

@Riko.9214 said:By far the least threatening class in WvW regardless of the build.

Difficult to catch but the actual combat power (even in 1v1 where the class supposed to excel) is lower than any other class on a proper build/elite (zerlings aside).

Yeah no? If you're talking core Thief, maybe. But S/D is still an excellent dueler. Daredevil condi and power have an advantage over a number of other professions and builds. If you even remotely think DE is nonthreatening, then you must be faced against complete potatoes. CA/SA/DE is a bit overtuned right now.

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Riko.9214" said:By far the least threatening class in WvW regardless of the build.

Difficult to catch but the actual combat power (even in 1v1 where the class supposed to excel) is lower than any other class on a proper build/elite (zerlings aside).

It is just my personal experience.

And "Yeah Yes", to me any other class on a PROPER builds are more threatening than anything thief/DD/DE can provide. With thiefs even they defeat me it is always a room to play around and I almost always do some respectable damage to them even when lose.

Agains many other classes it is invuln>block>invuln>20K damage incoming>invuln>block>invuln>20K damage incoming>invuln>block>invuln>20K damage incoming>invuln>block>invuln>20K damage incoming>... goes on.

But please note that I said any other CLASSES (professions) are more threatening NOT BUILDS. So every other class has builds that are more threatening then anything thief can bring. But not every build obviously.

@Riko.9214 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Riko.9214 said:By far the least threatening class in WvW regardless of the build.

Difficult to catch but the actual combat power (even in 1v1 where the class supposed to excel) is lower than any other class on a proper build/elite (zerlings aside).

When I play CA/SA/DE there is nothing any iteration of Elementalist, Mesmer, Warrior, Guardian, Ranger, Revenant, or Necromancer that is even remotely threatening to me. Speaking of Necromancer, Rifle DE hard counters all forms of Necromancer ...so there goes your absolute.

Daredevil is fine, Core Thief can use a tune-up, DE can use a tune-down.

D/P daredevil is only good for decap in sPvP, it's hard to 1v1 a player who know his job and do not expect to +1 often when you are queued with noobsDeadeye, I don't know I don't like it so I did'nt play it as much as other builds.Core S/D is love. Good dueling potential so you're a real threat even in 1v1 and this build have enough sustain to survive throught burst aoe teamfight

But please note that I said any other CLASSES (professions) are more threatening NOT BUILDS. So every other class has builds that are more threatening then anything thief can bring. But not every build obviously.

Yeah, you have to master the class to be a real threat (I don't speak for DE) and others don't (engie, ranger etc ... just lel)

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Riko.9214" said:

It is just my personal experience.

And "Yeah Yes", to me any other class on a PROPER builds are more threatening than anything thief/DD/DE can provide. With thiefs even they defeat me it is always a room to play around and I almost always do some respectable damage to them even when lose.

Agains many other classes it is invuln>block>invuln>20K damage incoming>invuln>block>invuln>20K damage incoming>invuln>block>invuln>20K damage incoming>invuln>block>invuln>20K damage incoming>... goes on.

But please note that I said any other CLASSES (professions) are more threatening NOT BUILDS. So every other class has builds that are more threatening then anything thief can bring. But not every build obviously.

As I say before, it is my personal experience. We might very well understand threatening differently, to me threatening is within a scenario I try to catch up to them and fight and I will not leave/reset unless they do. With thieves it is much easier to fight them and if they are resetting too much just leave, but with other classes (engi holo or ranger soulb, for example) there are some fights where I can not deal any respectable damage to them for like whole 20 seconds or even more (without anyone leaving/resetting).

@Riko.9214 said:By far the least threatening class in WvW regardless of the build.

Difficult to catch but the actual combat power (even in 1v1 where the class supposed to excel) is lower than any other class on a proper build/elite (zerlings aside).

In terms of my ability to read my opponent, I agree with you. I can easily read a Thief/DD/DE compare to a Holosmith, for example, and this make Thief less threatening. The hardest to read for me is Mesmer/Mirage but the most threatening is Holosmith.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Riko.9214 said:By far the least threatening class in WvW regardless of the build.

Difficult to catch but the actual combat power (even in 1v1 where the class supposed to excel) is lower than any other class on a proper build/elite (zerlings aside).

Wait what, how? Holo is 90% rotation based. Once they enter PF you should know exactly what happens for the next 10 seconds xD (They are still quite overtuned, but very predictable)

@Turk.5460 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Riko.9214 said:By far the least threatening class in WvW regardless of the build.

Difficult to catch but the actual combat power (even in 1v1 where the class supposed to excel) is lower than any other class on a proper build/elite (zerlings aside).

Mostly visual clutter. Some holos skip a beat and because of their huge hitboxes/range still clip you, and with the spam of light effects it's really hard to tell what the hell they're doing half the time.

Though context is also pretty important here, too. They're literally dealing massively more damage damage in WvW as they are in sPvP because the many (and quite substantial) sPvP nerfs never made it to WvW - like the few 40% reduced coefficient damage nerfs - and endurance regen food just downright breaks them with traited heat-loss on dodge keeping them in PF for extended periods of time.

sPvP: Decap and harasser, sometimes cheesy with DE sniping non-brawler players. Not needed more than other professions unless u abuse mobility vs stationary brawlers.WvW: Decent duelist, more slipperly than dangerous against other roamers. Great / best profession vs glasscannons though.PvE: Great singletarget dmg. d/d or staff and zerker armor. Boring rotations but very efficient and welcomed by most partys. Outshined by Elementalists though.