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So... about Palawa Joko (SPOILERS!)


Clyan.1593

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I really liked the ending scene there, but I still have many questions. It seems to me ANet pulled kind of a Lord Snoke on us.

  1. Who was Palawa Joko in Life? The wiki says he MIGHT have been one of the primeval kings... but was he? Or was he not?

  2. How did he become a Lich? Was this part of GW1? I don't remember.

  3. What exactly was his plan? Not to kill the Dragons? And then what? Live in piece with them? Seems like it was a dead end for his story anyway...

  4. Is he really dead now? How do we know? Is there an explanation for why Aurene was able to kill him while we weren't? Because she consumes lifeforce too?Or because she inhereted Balthasar's power maybe?

Please enlighten me.

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  1. We don't really know, but we know he loves exaggerating stories about himself. He himself says that he was a primeval king, but we have never had any confirmation from another source.

  2. Idk

  3. We don't know what his endgame was either. His monologue at the end tells us that he definitely knew more than he led us to believe, but we don't know if he had any plans for the dragons. Personally I believe he just wanted to coexist, because he had no real way to deal with this problem to begin with.

  4. He is dead for sure. Aurene ate the very magic that kept him alive in undeath. Dragons eat magic, we might only absorb it once it becomes free. She violently ripped it out of his body as she ate him.

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Most of those are simply "We don't know."

Regarding #4: People have asked whether Joko is genuinely dead, but the most likely explanation is that since dragons consume magic, she also consumed the magic that rendered him otherwise immortal. This is hinted at in

- the trigger for his final words being broadcast was his magic "becoming unbound", indicating that such an unbinding would kill Joko or at least render him mortal.

If ArenaNet does their usual thing, we'll probably find more about Joko's motives and origins posthumously.

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On number 1 specifically: the Primeval Kings claim he isn't one of them. Whether that's because he isn't part of their lineage or whether it's a "we stripped him of the right to call himself one of us", though, is anyone's guess.

On number 2, I can say that there's nothing more on his origins in GW1 than there is in GW2.

On number 3: He's had access to Forgotten ruins for a while. It's quite likely that he had some plan in mind that would mean that, at the very least, he himself would remain beneath their notice.

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Aiming at number 3 and 4, just a speculation:What if Jokos plan was to get eaten, so he could "infect" Aurene? He seems way too self-confident in his message, and Aurene also didn't look too healthy either.

Altho I still try to fit Lyssa in all of this. The mirror Balthazar has, him not calling her out during battle and the ring, combined with the illusion of the PC in his torture chamber? I still think she is somehow involved in all of this, but I don't know to what extend and what her goal might be.

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The whole joko getting himself eaten makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. He was clearly surprised by Aurene and getting himself eaten for no gain, no reason would be a worse plot twist than balthazar being lazarus. Aurene was looking ill because it was a visual cue the devs used to convey the idea she had eaten thousands of year old decayed flesh.

If they were to go down this route, then to me it would signal that the writing team would have lost all respect for their own ability to come up with a well written narrative. Im a fierce critic of the story, but i dont believe it could stoop that low.

As for Lyssa, personally i think many are over blowing her significance based on some loose dialogue. We have had the rogue or fallen God arc here and in GW1. Whatever they intend for Lyssa is likely less than some of the more imaginative theories i have read.

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@"Randulf.7614" said:The whole joko getting himself eaten makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. He was clearly surprised by Aurene and getting himself eaten for no gain, no reason would be a worse plot twist than balthazar being lazarus. Aurene was looking ill because it was a visual cue the devs used to convey the idea she had eaten thousands of year old decayed flesh.

If they were to go down this route, then to me it would signal that the writing team would have lost all respect for their own ability to come up with a well written narrative. Im a fierce critic of the story, but i dont believe it could stoop that low.

As for Lyssa, personally i think many are over blowing her significance based on some loose dialogue. We have had the rogue or fallen God arc here and in GW1. Whatever they intend for Lyssa is likely less than some of the more imaginative theories i have read.

Point taken towards the eaten theory.

But I never said I support the "rouge god" theory for Lyssa. Just that her involvement is heavily indicated.

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@Imba.9451 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:The whole joko getting himself eaten makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. He was clearly surprised by Aurene and getting himself eaten for no gain, no reason would be a worse plot twist than balthazar being lazarus. Aurene was looking ill because it was a visual cue the devs used to convey the idea she had eaten thousands of year old decayed flesh.

If they were to go down this route, then to me it would signal that the writing team would have lost all respect for their own ability to come up with a well written narrative. Im a fierce critic of the story, but i dont believe it could stoop that low.

As for Lyssa, personally i think many are over blowing her significance based on some loose dialogue. We have had the rogue or fallen God arc here and in GW1. Whatever they intend for Lyssa is likely less than some of the more imaginative theories i have read.

Point taken towards the eaten theory.

But I never said I support the "rouge god" theory for Lyssa. Just that her involvement is heavily indicated.

The rogue God theory wasn't aimed at you, more of a general observation of the theories going around. In all honesty though, is her involvement that heavily indicated? I've seen some mild seeding, but I can't recall anything that suggests a heavy weighting

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:The whole joko getting himself eaten makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. He was clearly surprised by Aurene and getting himself eaten for no gain, no reason would be a worse plot twist than balthazar being lazarus. Aurene was looking ill because it was a visual cue the devs used to convey the idea she had eaten thousands of year old decayed flesh.

If they were to go down this route, then to me it would signal that the writing team would have lost all respect for their own ability to come up with a well written narrative. Im a fierce critic of the story, but i dont believe it could stoop that low.

As for Lyssa, personally i think many are over blowing her significance based on some loose dialogue. We have had the rogue or fallen God arc here and in GW1. Whatever they intend for Lyssa is likely less than some of the more imaginative theories i have read.

Point taken towards the eaten theory.

But I never said I support the "rouge god" theory for Lyssa. Just that her involvement is heavily indicated.

The rogue God theory wasn't aimed at you, more of a general observation of the theories going around. In all honesty though, is her involvement that heavily indicated? I've seen some mild seeding, but I can't recall anything that suggests a heavy weighting

How "heavy" the hints are, is ultimately subjective. There's the mirror, Kormir's super-ambiguous line, and Balthazar's lack of cursing. Some take these to be massive hints, others take them to be small ones. Some may say the biggest hint would be when a dev refused to comment on Balthazar's lack of cursing, which indicates plans for the future, but where those plans go or even if they happen is up in the air completely.

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True, "heavily indicated" might be a bit much. It's rather subtle, to be honest.But then again, these "coincidental" hints seem to add up too much imho.

Also, I just read Konigs comment in another thread. According to him, and he seems reliable, a developer said they shortened Jokos story, so the rest of LS4 can focus on the "purple menace". Why don't just say Kralkatorrik, if they mean it?

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@"Imba.9451" said:

Also, I just read Konigs comment in another thread. According to him, and he seems reliable, a developer said they shortened Jokos story, so the rest of LS4 can focus on the "purple menace". Why don't just say Kralkatorrik, if they mean it?

Then you might have also seen him say that he'd misremembered the wording, mixing in 'purple menace' from a completely separate part of the game. For reference, the dev post he was referring to said:

"Given where the story left Joko in PoF, it was important that we NOT just leave that hanging, but we also had Kralkatorrik as the implied overarching threat from the epilogue to PoF.

So:

Joko being a part of this season was already a given. For various reasons that I'm not going to spoil, he couldn't be the main villain for the entire season."

(There was a second one as well, from the same dev saying the same thing in less detail.)

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