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Druids in fractals


cesmode.4257

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My Ranger recently hit 80, finishing up the personal story. Then onto HoT/PoF.

Is having a druid useful or a detriment in fractal pugs? Do people want straight up more DPS or would someone who can swap to healies in a pinch helpful? I created a thread about this for Firebrands in fractals because I was considering maining my FB, but people there said if you are FB and switch to book 2 or 3 to keep your team from dying, its more of a detriment. People would call you out for crappy DPS.

Thoughts?

Or maybe this could turn into a general "support" role discussion in mid-tier fractals?

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@Sephylon.4938 said:Pug meta is 1 chrono 1 druid 3 dps. As long as you learn the mechanics of the instsance and know how to give perma 25 might, fury, and regen, you'll be fine

To be precise, that is the pug meta for T4. For lower tiers you could run as Soulbeast or at least run a more DPS focused build for your Druid (if that exists?). Or just bring your FB because everyone deserves some quickness :)

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So Druid is pretty nice in fractal pugs? To clarify, I am currently in T2/T3, Ive never run into someone calling for meta builds or specs. I want to play a less played class/spec, but do more than just damage.

Ive been keeping track of my group comps for about three weeks. Necromancer(reaper,scourge), chronomancer, soulbeast top out the top 3 in terms of class/specs used. I hate doubling up. I dont see as many firebrands or druids as Id like.

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Fractal druid has a few things to keep in mind. Glyph heal is better burst healing than water spirit, but has weak condition cleanse while a traited healing spring is superior regeneration duration than water spirit and better condition cleanse than the glyph heal. Don't take water spirit unless you're solo healing in raids. Your role is to upkeep might, fury, regen, and swiftness on the whole party as well as heal them to bypass certain mechanics or recover from a failure of mechanics. Staff is your bread and butter sustain healing outside of celestial avatar while axe/warhorn is more debuff focused. Warhorn stacks vulnerability and gives you access to a blast finisher with WH5. Use WH5 in either water field for blast healing or firefields for extra might.

Utilities are another matter. Glyphe of empowerment on defiance bar break, frost spirit always, elite nature renewal always, and either sun, storm, or stone spirit depending on party composition and debuffs. Sun and Stone are only if the party is capped on vulnerability through other means, Stone only if no condition damage dealers in your party, else, if your party lacks decent vuln uptime, take storm. Remember, spirits give their buffs for 15s after they die, so if you have to keep them mobile, sacrifice them and they'll be up next time you need them if you've got decent alacrity uptime.

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@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:Glyph of empowerment on defiance bar break

you mean tides? empowerment is a very short 10% damage boost to the party, won't help with defiance bars

Reread what I wrote.
On
not
for
So pop the glyph for the 10% damage boost when the bar is broken.

The way you word it sound like you use it to break bar.

"Glyph of empowerment on defiance bar break"

Could have said .... Glyph of empowerment after you break defiance bar

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@"cesmode.4257" said:Is having a druid useful or a detriment in fractal pugs? Do people want straight up more DPS or would someone who can swap to healies in a pinch helpful?TLDR: Even a heal druid is a dps increase. Of course, more than 1 is stupid.

First lets make something clear. A group with 5 dps players (example, 5 berserker thieves) have less dps than a group with 4 dps players + 1 magi druid. A druid is responsible for generating might, fury, providing spirits as well as healing. Now, a group with 4 dps players + 1 condi druid has even more dps, because it has all the might,fury, and spirits of the prior group plus about 13k more dps , however a condi druid is not usually that great in casual pug groups. Casual pugs are full of players who wont dodge, chronos who don't know to give protection (if you have chrono at all) , and bad cc bar breaking. Additionally there are a lot of spots in fractals where out healing a mechanic is faster (especially in un-organized pug groups) than doing that mechanic for real.

For perspective, Ill give you some interesting numbers.

I took a standard staff daredevil thief (this build https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/thief/daredevil/power/, no food/utility), I didn't give him any buffs or boons, and I let him just auto attack an average golem with average hp and 25 vulnerability. Dps at 80% hp left: 7,175

I then took the same thief, gave him 25 might, fury, spotter and frost spirit (all the buffs a druid should provide) , and repeated the test. Dps at 80% hp left: 10,992

Now, this isn't a perfect way to demonstrate this concept, but if you assume you initially have a composition of 5 autoattacking thieves, they would have a total group dps of 35875, if you then replace 1 thief with 1 druid who does 0 dps but brings those buffs, the group dps is now: 43,968 , i.e. in this scenario, 4 dps + healer druid is 22% more dps than 5 dps would be.

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@thrag.9740 said:

@"cesmode.4257" said:Is having a druid useful or a detriment in fractal pugs? Do people want straight up more DPS or would someone who can swap to healies in a pinch helpful?TLDR: Even a heal druid is a dps increase. Of course, more than 1 is stupid.

First lets make something clear. A group with 5 dps players (example, 5 berserker thieves) have less dps than a group with 4 dps players + 1 magi druid. A druid is responsible for generating might, fury, providing spirits as well as healing. Now, a group with 4 dps players + 1 condi druid has even more dps, because it has all the might,fury, and spirits of the prior group plus about 13k more dps , however a condi druid is not usually that great in casual pug groups. Casual pugs are full of players who wont dodge, chronos who don't know to give protection (if you have chrono at all) , and bad cc bar breaking. Additionally there are a lot of spots in fractals where out healing a mechanic is faster (especially in un-organized pug groups) than doing that mechanic for real.

For perspective, Ill give you some interesting numbers.

I took a standard staff daredevil thief (this build
, no food/utility), I didn't give him any buffs or boons, and I let him just auto attack an average golem with average hp and 25 vulnerability. Dps at 80% hp left: 7,175

I then took the same thief, gave him 25 might, fury, spotter and frost spirit (all the buffs a druid should provide) , and repeated the test. Dps at 80% hp left: 10,992

Now, this isn't a perfect way to demonstrate this concept, but if you assume you initially have a composition of 5 autoattacking thieves, they would have a total group dps of 35875, if you then replace 1 thief with 1 druid who does 0 dps but brings those buffs, the group dps is now: 43,968 , i.e. in this scenario, 4 dps + healer druid is 22% more dps than 5 dps would be.

Thanks everyone for the responses. Question for you: Would a Condi Firebrand be as useful as well? Mostly DPS, but then switching to book 2 or 3 when needed to heal/boost etc? Or is that overkill a bit and I should stick to book1 dps and let everyone else heal themselves up (I know that sounds selfish but Ive heard people say that if youre playing a class that can provide this sort of utility (firebrand, druid etc), that its better to keep pumping out high dps and let people heal themselves with their toolkits rather than sacrificing your dps and switching to heal or support etc)

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@cesmode.4257 said:Thanks everyone for the responses. Question for you: Would a Condi Firebrand be as useful as well? Mostly DPS, but then switching to book 2 or 3 when needed to heal/boost etc? Or is that overkill a bit and I should stick to book1 dps and let everyone else heal themselves up (I know that sounds selfish but Ive heard people say that if youre playing a class that can provide this sort of utility (firebrand, druid etc), that its better to keep pumping out high dps and let people heal themselves with their toolkits rather than sacrificing your dps and switching to heal or support etc)

The answer is situation specific. You need to realize that there are jobs assigned to certain people in a group, and they typically are running gear that makes them good at that single job. Therefore, it is best to stick to the job your strong at. If your in a standard 'meta' group (where that word has different meanings to different people), you might have a group like this

1 chrono (running a boon/dps build i.e. commanders + zerk)1 druid (probably full healer)1 warrior (running banners probably power in fractals so spell breaker)1 dps (maybe a necro or thief or ele, whatever)1 dps (this is you)

You condi firebrand is one of the dps slots in the above comp. I would say that usually, its going to be best for you to trust your healer, and leave the job to them. Remember, your condi firebrand is running gear that makes your dps efficient but your heals inefficient, while your healer druid is running gear that will make their heals efficient. In short, your not a good healer, and your healer isn't a good dps. Now, sometimes things get hectic, like if your healer goes down and you want to use some of your healing spells on people while they res that healer, I think that is probably smart. But unless your healer is down/dead, I would stick to what your build is strongest at, doing dps (and of course, always help with breakbar with whatever you have).

However, sometimes while pugging, people incorrectly think it is easier to not care about group comp, and they won't organize to have a druid. So, say you find yourself in this scenario; 1 chrono 4 dps/bs:

1 chrono1 warrior (or maybe this slot is just another dps)2 dps (again could be just about anything)1 dps (this is you)

This is actually also considered a meta group, but the chrono should be running a boon/healer build i.e. minstrels/harriers/clerics. In this situation, you should also try to leave the healing to the chrono if the chrono has stated they are a healer. If they say nothing, you can always ask. If the chrono is not running a healer build, you should either leave the group and find a proper organized group, or if you insist on playing with this group, this would be a good time for you to try swapping in some of your healing books as the group needs it.

Third scenario (going full pug):4 dps (again could be anything)1 dps (this is you)

Get out of this group. This group is the lowest dps group, and has no heals, no helpful boons, typically weak cc, and is by far, the most prone to wiping. Only a masochist would run in this group. If you decide to play fractals with this group, swapping to your healing books as needed isn't a bad idea; but again let me emphasize that staying in this group is a bad idea.

Your a beginner player, and often beginner players seem to think that meta groups are risky and that relaxed groups are safe. Almost the exact opposite is true. Try to only join groups with a druid (and also a chrono), and leave the healing to the druid.

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@thrag.9740 said:

@cesmode.4257 said:Thanks everyone for the responses. Question for you: Would a Condi Firebrand be as useful as well? Mostly DPS, but then switching to book 2 or 3 when needed to heal/boost etc? Or is that overkill a bit and I should stick to book1 dps and let everyone else heal themselves up (I know that sounds selfish but Ive heard people say that if youre playing a class that can provide this sort of utility (firebrand, druid etc), that its better to keep pumping out high dps and let people heal themselves with their toolkits rather than sacrificing your dps and switching to heal or support etc)

The answer is situation specific. You need to realize that there are jobs assigned to certain people in a group, and they typically are running gear that makes them good at that single job. Therefore, it is best to stick to the job your strong at. If your in a standard 'meta' group (where that word has different meanings to different people), you might have a group like this

1 chrono (running a boon/dps build i.e. commanders + zerk)1 druid (probably full healer)1 warrior (running banners probably power in fractals so spell breaker)1 dps (maybe a necro or thief or ele, whatever)1 dps (this is you)

You condi firebrand is one of the dps slots in the above comp. I would say that usually, its going to be best for you to trust your healer, and leave the job to them. Remember, your condi firebrand is running gear that makes your dps efficient but your heals inefficient, while your healer druid is running gear that will make their heals efficient. In short, your not a good healer, and your healer isn't a good dps. Now, sometimes things get hectic, like if your healer goes down and you want to use some of your healing spells on people while they res that healer, I think that is probably smart. But unless your healer is down/dead, I would stick to what your build is strongest at, doing dps (and of course, always help with breakbar with whatever you have).

However, sometimes while pugging, people incorrectly think it is easier to not care about group comp, and they won't organize to have a druid. So, say you find yourself in this scenario; 1 chrono 4 dps/bs:

1 chrono1 warrior (or maybe this slot is just another dps)2 dps (again could be just about anything)1 dps (this is you)

This is actually also considered a meta group, but the chrono should be running a boon/healer build i.e. minstrels/harriers/clerics. In this situation, you should also try to leave the healing to the chrono if the chrono has stated they are a healer. If they say nothing, you can always ask. If the chrono is not running a healer build, you should either leave the group and find a proper organized group, or if you insist on playing with this group, this would be a good time for you to try swapping in some of your healing books as the group needs it.

Third scenario (going full pug):4 dps (again could be anything)1 dps (this is you)

Get out of this group. This group is the lowest dps group, and has no heals, no helpful boons, typically weak cc, and is by far, the most prone to wiping. Only a masochist would run in this group. If you decide to play fractals with this group, swapping to your healing books as needed isn't a bad idea; but again let me emphasize that staying in this group is a bad idea.

Your a beginner player, and often beginner players seem to think that meta groups are risky and that relaxed groups are safe. Almost the exact opposite is true. Try to only join groups with a druid (and also a chrono), and leave the healing to the druid.

Hi,Thanks for the writeup...I don't run with a set group of folks. Its all PUG, currently in T2. I plan on moving up to T3. No real plans to move into T4 because then I run into the stuff you mentioned above where 'meta' dictates what you play, and your evening. I don't want to get into that. I want to play a class, enjoy myself, but also feel useful and feel like Ive contributed more than just DPS or Heals or boons.

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@"cesmode.4257" said:Hi,Thanks for the writeup...I don't run with a set group of folks. Its all PUG, currently in T2. I plan on moving up to T3. No real plans to move into T4 because then I run into the stuff you mentioned above where 'meta' dictates what you play, and your evening. I don't want to get into that. I want to play a class, enjoy myself, but also feel useful and feel like Ive contributed more than just DPS or Heals or boons.

Well, you may be unaware, most pug groups in t4 lfg do organize, they simply write an ad like: "t4s, need 1 druid, 1 chrono, 1 dps" etc, and people just join and fill the roles. That probably seems intimidating to a beginner, but eventually players start to have dozens of ascended armor sets, and so they gear up all characters, making it easy to organize. If you don't want to play meta, so be it. But I'm going to offer you one last piece of advice. Rather than stopping at t3 and never moving into t4, I highly recommend you just stop at t2 and never move into t3.

Many players have reported it on this forums, and I have also experienced it, t3 is harder to pug than t4. I know, that seems counter intuitive. But t3 is hard enough to be challenging, and all the good players move up to t4 because t4 has better rewards, leaving bad teammates and slow-to-fill lfgs. T3 is a nightmare, and I don't just mean slow kills, I mean frequent wipes where players leave the group and your stuck waiting for the lfg to fill. They are awful, T3 fractals are awful.

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