Mystic Toilet I'm pissed!

I have a bone to pick with design of mystic toilet! I needed mystic clovers so I'm placing in 10 mats at the time to 10 obsidian shards, 10 Mystic coins (not cheep at all) 10 Crystals and 10 ectos only to receive back 20 obsidian shards and on 2nd try 20 mystic crystals! what the F is this mats that are used to make an item I don't want back. I understand other junk I receive its a gamble but I should not be getting same item I'm putting in. Design of this is extremely stupid!

@Ankas.9023 said:I have a bone to pick with design of mystic toilet! I needed mystic clovers so I'm placing in 10 mats at the time to 10 obsidian shards, 10 Mystic coins (not cheep at all) 10 Crystals and 10 ectos only to receive back 20 obsidian shards and on 2nd try 20 mystic crystals! what the F is this mats that are used to make an item I don't want back. I understand other junk I receive its a gamble but I should not be getting same item I'm putting in. Design of this is extremely stupid!

The chance of getting clover is only 25-35% on average (wiki data has 33%; my personal experience is just under 30%). It's unrealistic to expect you'll need less than a stack to get 77 clover. And using the 10x recipe, bad streaks are more noticeable and more painful.

Try not to focus on what you get as a consolation; keep your eyes on the main prize: the clover.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Ankas.9023 said:I have a bone to pick with design of mystic toilet! I needed mystic clovers so I'm placing in 10 mats at the time to 10 obsidian shards, 10 Mystic coins (not cheep at all) 10 Crystals and 10 ectos only to receive back 20 obsidian shards and on 2nd try 20 mystic crystals! what the F is this mats that are used to make an item I don't want back. I understand other junk I receive its a gamble but I should not be getting same item I'm putting in. Design of this is extremely stupid!

I don't have problem with the steaks of getting them! I have a problem of receiving a useless 1 mat that is part of the recipe back such as crystals and obsidian shards...

Mystic Clover recipes gives a random material output, but its odds are consistent to produce clovers at a roughly 33% rate of return. It is literally tuned to average out, and consume 1 full stack each of Mystic coins, Ectos, shards and the catalyst to produce 77 Clovers. Technically its its 231 of each, but theres enough built in overhead to almost guaranty a full stack will be enough to get all 77 clovers. It also has a side benefit of it failing into T6 mats something like 60ish% of the time, but the value of those mats can vary based on market conditions (which is useful in the Gift recipes for promotion). The remaining 10% is clover recipe materials, which most people put toward rerolls (which actually a major boon if it spits back ectos or coins).

The entire point here is that the success of the clover recipe only comes in how it averages out. If you don't want to deal with the random element, or the cost of Coins, then you can get clovers via other means. Fractals has the option for guaranteed Clover conversion at the cost of Relics. (For 1 Gift of Fortune or Mystic Tribute it will require 11,550 Fractal Relics, 77 Mystic Coin, 231 Glob of Ectoplasm, and 154 Spirit Shard for the required Mystic Clovers, if clovers are exclusively purchased from the fractal vendor.) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Clover#Notes

Theres also PvP and WvW reward tracks, the Warped Bundles from LS3 and LS4 (random), and 7 from the end of the month login rewards (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chest_of_Legendary_Crafting_Materials).

It should also be noted the 10 Clover roll follows the same rule of averages as the 1 clover roll, but is less precise if you're trying to conserve materials. However, if you get lucky, you can save a significant number number of coins and ectos; where as the singles are extremely unlikely to have this happen.

don't piss in the mystic toilet pls

The op is not commenting on odds, streaks or stats. More that on the perceived uselessness f the two items in question. I agree it is annoying to get those, but it is all part of the risk.

The one thing I am grateful about being a PvP and WvW player is that I am swimming in clovers.

I wish you luck with the toilet.

In order to get close to the average, you need to do it more times. Which means do the 1x recipe, more often. The 10x is for convenience, but statistically, in the long run, it will cost you considerably more.

I found unbound magic a cheaper way of making legendaries generally, since you can get clovers and other materials from Magic-Warped bundles.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic-Warped_Bundle

And those items the OP mentioned can be used to make more mystic clovers.

@Ankas.9023 said:I don't have problem with the steaks of getting them! I have a problem of receiving a useless 1 mat that is part of the recipe back such as crystals and obsidian shards...Try not to focus on what you get as a consolation; keep your eyes on the main prize: the clover.The other 67% of the stuff isn't useful compared to the costs either (with maybe 1-2 exceptions)

What the OP is talking about is not that you don't always get what you want. What doesn't make sense to them is that you put in 4 items to make something, and what you make turns out to be 1 of the items you put in. Like making soup with 4 ingredients, but instead of getting soup you just get 1 of the ingredients you put in. Logically one would think: "What happened to the other 3 items? Didn't they get mixed in as well? Shouldn't I be getting a mixture of those 4 things, instead of 1 of the original items in its pure form?" Logically speaking mixing up 4 pure elements (i.e. recipe items) should not yield one of those elements in its pure form, but something that contains all 4. It suggests that 3 out of 4 went poof and 1 was left untouched. That's the part OP has a problem with.

Though there is an easy explanation for all of this. The Mystic Forge is not just a tool. It is a djinn, Zommoros, an elemental spirit that takes your ingredients and gives you something in return (either guaranteed or RNG). Which means he can screw us over as many times as he wants, whenever he wants. There's a will behind it. So if he decides he doesn't like you, or he is in a foul mood, or wants to have a bit of fun and screw with people, he can take 3 of your items and throw the remaining one back at you. So maybe that answers their question.

While occasionally getting something useless (like bolts of gossamer). Can be outweighed by getting back 20 mystic coins.

It IS an expensive proposition to be sure.

Guaranteed clovers (albeit very slow accrual) can be had in WvW and PvP reward tracks.

There is no cost to that (well maybe a little of your soul.. :sunglasses: )

Yeah I'm not a friend of the toilet either, this morning I dumped 190 coins, spirit shards, obi shards and ecto's to only get 10 clovers. The thing is complete GARBAGE. Very bad day, the coins and ecto I don't really care about but that's a lot of shards especially seeing I'm making Verdarach and more obi shards are required to make 2nd gen leggy weapons

@Cerberus.4315 said:Yeah I'm not a friend of the toilet either, this morning I dumped 190 coins, spirit shards, obi shards and ecto's to only get 10 clovers. The thing is complete GARBAGE. Very bad day, the coins and ecto I don't really care about but that's a lot of shards especially seeing I'm making Verdarach and more obi shards are required to make 2nd gen leggy weapons

The system is fine. Don’t do the x10 recipe if you want more consistent results closer to the ~33% drop rate.

In fact, you got 10 clovers in 19 attempts which is technically a better rate than average.

@Cerberus.4315 said:Yeah I'm not a friend of the toilet either, this morning I dumped 190 coins, spirit shards, obi shards and ecto's to only get 10 clovers. The thing is complete GARBAGE. Very bad day, the coins and ecto I don't really care about but that's a lot of shards especially seeing I'm making Verdarach and more obi shards are required to make 2nd gen leggy weapons

Gen 2 legendaries cost the same amount of obsidian shards as gen 1.

Gen 1 - however many you need for 77 clovers, 250 for the Gift of Mastery.Gen 2 - however many you need for 77 clovers, 250 for the Fulgurite to make Crystalline Ingots for the Gift of Maguuma Mastery OR for buying Funerary Incense for Gift of Desert Mastery.

What does differ is Mystic Coins, where gen 1 only need them for clovers while gen 2 need that and a stack.

Alternatively you can wait 11 months for 11 chests of loyalty = 77 Clovers. Not the path most people choose imo.

@Ubi.4136 said:In order to get close to the average, you need to do it more times. Which means do the 1x recipe, more often. The 10x is for convenience, but statistically, in the long run, it will cost you considerably more.

In the long run it there should not be any difference but that long run is for people making piles of clovers. If you only plan to make 1 weapon that isn't going to be enough rolls to be considered long.

Won't help you now, but as mentioned, if you want consistent and less risky returns, go with the single clover recipe.

A guild mate of mine 1nce went with a 19 try unlucky streak (he was doing single attempts) before getting his clover. It is very unlikely, but very unlikely is not the same as impossible.

I've been both on the lucky and unlucky end of the 10 clover recipe. Overall I've been fortunate so far in most of my legendaries. If possible I still try to avoid clover crafting though. The single recipe takes ages...

@Ankas.9023 said:I understand other junk I receive its a gamble

If you actually understood what a gamble was, your post would not exist.

@Ankas.9023 said:I have a bone to pick with design of mystic toilet! I needed mystic clovers so I'm placing in 10 mats at the time to 10 obsidian shards, 10 Mystic coins (not cheep at all) 10 Crystals and 10 ectos only to receive back 20 obsidian shards and on 2nd try 20 mystic crystals! what the F is this mats that are used to make an item I don't want back. I understand other junk I receive its a gamble but I should not be getting same item I'm putting in. Design of this is extremely stupid!

The mystic clover thing is totally pathetic. I can't believe how many resources I had to waste on that stupid gambling machine to make my legendary.

Just brace yourself for a beating with the mystic forge. It's bad. I'd also recommend rolling a scourge, and steamrolling through all the WvW reward tracks that give clovers. I was able to complete one reward track per day as a clueless, newbie scourge.

Seriously, if you dont have the patience to get the clovers, then i dont want to imagine how you will have the patience to get the precursors and the amalgamated gemstones.

Yes, it is random, but sometimes you get usefull stuff, like trophys to make gifts, also, now you can buy clovers in fractals with no risk of random loot.

@Cerberus.4315 said:Yeah I'm not a friend of the toilet either, this morning I dumped 190 coins, spirit shards, obi shards and ecto's to only get 10 clovers. The thing is complete GARBAGE. Very bad day, the coins and ecto I don't really care about but that's a lot of shards especially seeing I'm making Verdarach and more obi shards are required to make 2nd gen leggy weapons

Man! I have never seen someone so pissed about the Mystic Toilet that he starts to nerco post.

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Cerberus.4315 said:Yeah I'm not a friend of the toilet either, this morning I dumped 190 coins, spirit shards, obi shards and ecto's to only get 10 clovers. The thing is complete GARBAGE. Very bad day, the coins and ecto I don't really care about but that's a lot of shards especially seeing I'm making Verdarach and more obi shards are required to make 2nd gen leggy weapons

Admittedly, one success in 19 tries is really bad luck, so I'm sympathetic to the frustration. However, as has been said, unless you're going for a couple hundred clovers, never ever use the 10x recipe!

@"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:Logically one would think: "What happened to the other 3 items? Didn't they get mixed in as well? Shouldn't I be getting a mixture of those 4 things, instead of 1 of the original items in its pure form?"And the answer to that question is simple, and can be summed up with two words.Professional Skritt.