I want more challenge in this game - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

I want more challenge in this game

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Comments

  • Frenzify.6832Frenzify.6832 Member ✭✭
    edited September 10, 2018

    Because players have different skill levels, and Anet seems to want to cater to the lowest skill level, rather than make content people actually need to try and learn the game and their class for. I'm very much reminded of the Eater of Souls in PoF, and how people wouldn't think to just switch up their builds, or had no concept of the break bar. It doesn't really annoy me most of the time, as I just let it go, but it would be nice if things weren't so insanely hand holdy. I do understand it, but as I said, I'd rather they made content that the less skilled would have to get more skilled for, because otherwise they'll never get better, and the content for everyone else will just be a borefest and a walk in the park.

    I didn't know the Joko fight had no fail state, but the one that really got me was the golem fight in the Olmakhan village. Everyone finds different things fun, for sure, but I really didn't find it fun getting downed so much only to instantly revive with no real consequence. I didn't feel accomplished beating it, and I didn't feel like I earned it. It felt like the game just pushed me to the goal without any real effort on my part, at which point I wasn't left with any satisfaction, but just annoyance. When a game or boss doesn't have a fail state it really dampens it for me.

    Maybe the answer is to bring back the challenge mote, to increase difficulties for the people who want it. But as it stands, I absolutely don't play the story or its bosses for fun, but more just because I'm a completionist on my characters. The only story boss I consider fun enough to play over again is potato monster Mordremoth and that's only due to the spectacle of it, since the normal mode is pretty simple.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2018

    @YoukiNeko.6047 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:
    They should just make some aspect of the game very difficult that relies solely on solo player skills, and lock some really good exclusive rewards behind it. That way, everyone is happy. If its too hard for some people, then i just say quote what everyone on the forums says to people who want any aspect of the game changed at all - "perhaps this game/game mode isn't for you."

    That doesn't make everyone happy. That locks people out of rewards that they might want because of skill. That's exactly what this game ISN'T about.

    Except since it is PVE everyone can go practice it and gain some skill easily. They should not cater to the people who multitask (eg. play GW2 and watch TV at the same). Since PVE is scripted and AI is super bad in this game, everyone can gain the required skill easily unless they are affected by some form of disability

    What? I don't get what you are saying. What I know is that there is content in games (and this one is no different) that people can't complete and if the poster I responded to thinks that locking really nice stuff behind really hard content 'makes everyone happy', he's just not thinking straight.

    Can't complete is most of the time just a bad excuse. I am not a very skilled person. I am bad in PvP/WvW. I do not have the reflexes of 14 year olds anymore. But if you fail (after practicing) at completing scripted encounters that are the same every time you go there, then the problem is you and not the game. There is really nothing even remotely hard in PvE this game, raids included. Everything can be learned rather easily by anyone legitimately trying and not just giving up at the first step where auto attacks won't cut it.

    There are people with disabilities out there that want to enjoy the game and not feel excluded (like in the real world), so why would you deny them that?
    Or is it because you need to feel superior to them by getting shiny pixels in the game? (So can you do Ember bay jumping puzzle with one arm?)

    Just because you can do it doesn't mean that everyone can even if they tried hard.
    Personal story is supposed to be accessible for everyone. So far there are some annoying bosses but the ability to res-rush actually helps people deal with them. (even with res-rush some people are having problems)

    Raids and high level fractals are where this game challenging content is.

    P.S. Wildstar is running way better than GW2 on my pc and the graphics are nicer (i prefer cartoon style). But I remember people complaining about how punishing the game was (failing one encounter in raids almost removed your reward, making people instantly restarting).

    Why should a game be boring just because 1% (or even less) of the players are disabled? Yes, inclusion can go too far.

    I played Wildstar at release and it ran like trash with plenty of memory leaks

  • I completely agree OP. I was really upset when we killed Balthazar and then later Joko. God slayer? Really? Meanwhile back in GW1 I actually felt Vizier Khilbron was an actual threat. Same with Shiro Tagachi. The narrative team has put the player character in the comical position of being able to slay anything and everything. So much for having struggles to overcome.

  • @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @YoukiNeko.6047 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:
    They should just make some aspect of the game very difficult that relies solely on solo player skills, and lock some really good exclusive rewards behind it. That way, everyone is happy. If its too hard for some people, then i just say quote what everyone on the forums says to people who want any aspect of the game changed at all - "perhaps this game/game mode isn't for you."

    That doesn't make everyone happy. That locks people out of rewards that they might want because of skill. That's exactly what this game ISN'T about.

    Except since it is PVE everyone can go practice it and gain some skill easily. They should not cater to the people who multitask (eg. play GW2 and watch TV at the same). Since PVE is scripted and AI is super bad in this game, everyone can gain the required skill easily unless they are affected by some form of disability

    What? I don't get what you are saying. What I know is that there is content in games (and this one is no different) that people can't complete and if the poster I responded to thinks that locking really nice stuff behind really hard content 'makes everyone happy', he's just not thinking straight.

    Can't complete is most of the time just a bad excuse. I am not a very skilled person. I am bad in PvP/WvW. I do not have the reflexes of 14 year olds anymore. But if you fail (after practicing) at completing scripted encounters that are the same every time you go there, then the problem is you and not the game. There is really nothing even remotely hard in PvE this game, raids included. Everything can be learned rather easily by anyone legitimately trying and not just giving up at the first step where auto attacks won't cut it.

    There are people with disabilities out there that want to enjoy the game and not feel excluded (like in the real world), so why would you deny them that?
    Or is it because you need to feel superior to them by getting shiny pixels in the game? (So can you do Ember bay jumping puzzle with one arm?)

    Just because you can do it doesn't mean that everyone can even if they tried hard.
    Personal story is supposed to be accessible for everyone. So far there are some annoying bosses but the ability to res-rush actually helps people deal with them. (even with res-rush some people are having problems)

    Raids and high level fractals are where this game challenging content is.

    P.S. Wildstar is running way better than GW2 on my pc and the graphics are nicer (i prefer cartoon style). But I remember people complaining about how punishing the game was (failing one encounter in raids almost removed your reward, making people instantly restarting).

    Why should a game be boring just because 1% (or even less) of the players are disabled? Yes, inclusion can go too far.

    I played Wildstar at release and it ran like trash with plenty of memory leaks

    How does it make the game boring if only the personal story is available to everyone?
    Did I say: "- Nerf raids and fractals"? Nope I did not.
    What I'm saying is let the personal story alone. Buff the raids, make the fractals impossible, but leave the lore content accessible for everyone.

    No images or emojis allowed. Signatures can be up to 300 characters long.

  • Shaogin.2679Shaogin.2679 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    Well they can use machine learning to create bots which behave like human players, immagine going in a room full of mesmers and they all fight like their top ranked human counterparts. Or going to queensdale and all the bandits start behaving like your average thief in WvW, that's the experience PvE is currently missing.

    Then the bots would complain about a lack of challenge

    Omg this was great. Lol

    Doc Von Doom

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Have you tried things like only using blue and green equipment? Or failing an instance if you can not do it in a minute? Or doing all the achieves? There are always ways to make things harder but it is more difficult to make things easier and since there are people on both sides you might have to settle with adding your own challenges.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2018

    @Edelweiss.4261 said:
    I've never understood this need for challenge. Challenge is ever present in life, so I imagine you want a challenge specific to this game. I guess you could time yourself and see how quickly you can do it. Maybe see how high you can get your dps? There are tons of ways to find challenge without forcing it on others if you really seek it.

    Rewinding back in time 2 days to answer this. As a medium, video games have always had some type of challenge, as its one of the biggest factors in engagement. The issue is how "challenge" is constantly getting conflated with "difficulty", and the common use having an incredibly narrow minded view of what makes it up. "Skill" has this same problem, as its kind of ill defined to begin with, and started being twisted to simply be a fallacy to support any argument.

    Challenge comes from anything that pushes against the player. Be it having to do things, or forcing them to rethink something at a fundamental level. Story often likes to challenge players on an emotional level, puzzle challenge them cognitively, rotations challenge memory, or how the combat system challenges a player's reflexes. All of these have widely varying levels of difficulty from moment to moment, but they all fall under this simple umbrella of being interesting based on how it engages the player by cooperating or resisting against whats in front of them.

    What I'm finding to be the big problem is players simply wanting too much out of every game they play. Almost literally demanding every game be the "perfect game" to them. And the more open a game is feed back, the more they try to force their will, typically to the exclusion of others. This is why a game having a particular identity is important, as it creates a compass for what ideas the majority of fans/players are likely to go along with. However, with more players focusing on fewer games, and playing them for much longer cycles, this every increasing demand for any single game to satisfy "all of their interests" is what leads to so many of these calls for constant changes and reworks that aren't particularly necessary if the game never had that goal. Adding Raids, for instance, is one such incident; and the arguments about "what makes a good raid" often gets tangled up in another argument over accessibility, difficulty, and superior rewards.

    The irony though is that most of the game's "difficult" or "challenging" content isn't all that difficult mechanically. While the combat in GW2 is very engaging, its not really possible to fail using a skill or taking an action, and is ultimately measured by capitalizing on opportunity more then anything else. But where players ultimately get the most push back is from other players. You wipe in a raid or fractal, as far as the mechanics are concerned, you're not heavily pushed for the failure, and are free to try again without much in the way of set backs. Even if the boss resets, you're not forced to start the level over or lose anything valuable to the fight, and rarely worse off then when going in the last time. At worst the only thing you lost is time, and maybe armor damage (which you can suffer 12 strikes against before it does anything meaningful). But what typically happens when a group wipes, fails, or even has a few people downed mid-battle? Usually theres some kind of argument sparked from frustration, and more times then it should, people end up leaving or the party socially imploding in its entirety. Granted there are often a lot of things going on, and people simply reacting.... but it does raise the question about why this attitude is so prevalent in game modes that typically demand team work and/or at least some amount of social interaction.

    At least part of it is how players handle the idea of failure, and this stigma of success only being valuable with a greater weight of failure being hung over their heads. This affects all sides of the argument. Some are so risk adverse, they demand the environment be changed to remove any chance of failure from the equation; while others demand harsher punishment for not conforming to some radically complex system designed to come crashing down on the player at even the slightest deviation from some singular, highly specific solution. And then there are those that somehow fall into both, and try to influence the bar to let them succeed and force others to fail.

    Failure isn't the only way to do this; its just one of the most easily recognizable ways, given the target audience for commercially successful games largely comes from objectivist/goal-oriented societies. Achievement is praised, and failure chastised..... so unsurprisingly, it would be things they intuitively respond to. And thus, obstacles to that goal are what gets fixated on more then anything else.

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2018

    We already have raids, dungeons, fractals, we already have challenge modes in some story steps, we already have some very challenging storyline achievements.

    I think the main storyline should be accessible for a very large majority of the players, also for casuals. The many retry and resurrect mechanics help to achieve this. I agree that some story steps are very easy, but a few others are still very hard. I tried to complete the final storyline mission of Heart of Thorns a few days ago and could not make it in several attempts. And I'm a player who knows the game (4000 hours on my main char) and the mechanics. I'm not saying I'm a highly skilled player because I am not, but there is a large group of players who cannot get past this on their own.

    Fortunately, I completed this one with a party earlier.

    But the story, this is the main thing of the game. All players who genuinely put in their best effort should be able to experience this.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    I mean, for real, why should we have to take Balthazar and Joko seriously, if we LITERALLY cannot lose to them?
    Every duel with a boss follows the same pattern, you put in half an effort, and you kill the boss with easy.
    Or you just laze away, half-minded, and the boss kills you a few times, but no worries, because THERE ARE NO FAIL CONDITIONS.
    There literally isn't a point to having a health bar, because once the health bar hits zero, it just goes back to full and you can keep fighting.
    Even if you're somehow so bad you keep dying until you're in your underwear, as long as you keep hitting that respawn button, you can kill Balthazar in your swim shorts.

    So thats what I'm asking, why do we even care about the big villains if they're INCAPABLE of defeating us? We can literally keep nibbling away at them at our weakest, and they can't do anything to stop us.

    And it's not just from a mechanical point of view, we're even immortal in the story.
    Apparantly, having died once, makes us immune to dying again, according to LS4-3, which didn't make any sense to me, at all.
    What, so we're incorporeal now? the beetles can't dig into us, lay eggs, and eat us up from the inside because our bodies have already been dead once before?

    I am PLEADING you, anet, give the bosses some fail conditions, let them win for a change. Give us a reason to take their fights seriously?
    Otherwise we can all just go on vacation and send a swarm of Skritt and Quaggans to go kill the next boss.

    The whole talk about Generation III bugs had me hoping there would be a story point where Joko unleashes the plague, and we lose, and we have to cleanse, purge, or downright burn down an entire society or something. To keep it from spreading.
    When we stormed that palace of his, and the gates broken, I thought "here it is".
    Only to have a bunch of ghosts say "we'll keep them contained".
    Then what was the whole point of the plague?
    There was never any risk if we only needed a few ghosts to end the plague.
    The plague was a sort of MacGuffin, but now it's just a background drop.

    Give the villains some slack, anet, please, give us a reason to actually WANT to defeat them

    Nope they need to make it easier

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Have you tried things like only using blue and green equipment? Or failing an instance if you can not do it in a minute? Or doing all the achieves? There are always ways to make things harder but it is more difficult to make things easier and since there are people on both sides you might have to settle with adding your own challenges.

    you're not the first to make this suggestion on this topic, the ninth, in fact, and everytime the same rebutal comes back:
    handicapping yourself does not make a fight more challenging, only more attrituous.
    By cutting your own dps, or making yourself more susceptible you're only increasing the length of the fight, not the difficulty.
    If I can dodge the bosses' power attack the few times he does it in his short life span, what makes you think I can't dodge it a few more times?
    Remember, challenging doesn't mean "boss does more dps" or "boss has more health"
    Challenging means more complex mechanics to deal with. Without the mechanics, every boss is just a reskin of the same.

    Lets give it an example, shall we?

    Say, Joko, he mostly just stands around, and every so once in a while he uses the 'floor is lava' tactic.
    Nothing much else is going on, as far as rangers and casters are concerned, this fight is already is basic as it gets.
    but as a source of challenge, would probably be, 'floor is lava' but you have to make your own flooring to stand on. If you dont, all is lava.
    Then you suddenly have an extra element in the fights to take care of.
    And what if Joko could drain his allies like he did in the end cinematic. Then you'd have to constantly maintain distance between Joko and his minions, by forms of CC.

    another example:
    Balthazar, has a lot going, MANY, MANY small attacks. Waves, bursts, that weird loopydoopy fire.
    But all in all, all of those attacks are weak. If you stay out of the way of the majority, you can outheal about 25% of the remaining damage with ease.
    Now, lets add a challenge. The area shrinks over time, the fire walls close in. Now you're forced to deal with the same amount of MANY, MANY small attacks in an ever decreasing safe area. And attacks like Sabetha's fire wall would work great here as well. Now in a raid that is an absolute death skill, for the story mode it could be 75% damage skill, downing players already severely hurt.
    But in that last case, remember that even in absolute death cases, you can instantly resurect and continue the fight anyway.

    last example:
    Tequatl. YES, tequatl, the boss overhauled in an effort to make him hard again. they can give him more health, makes his attacks more damaging, every playing could come naked. However, NONE OF THAT would add ANY difficulty or challenge. BECAUSE THERE IS A WAYPOINT NEXT TO THE BATTLEFIELD.
    You can infinitely die and run back. you can rebuild the lost turrets.
    A good way to renew the difficulty on tequatl would be:
    a) Make the turret defending more challenging, and increase cooldown on their [2] as they get damaged
    b) Make damage on the batteries persistant, so defending them becomes more of a task
    c) add more enemies designed for the sole purpose of interfering with the regular fighting tactics, and special enemies designed to damage the batteries.

    All in all, most bosses can be improved upon. In this current state, people are not being punished for ignoring mechanics. you can faceplant any boss, and with patience, that's a valid tactic. however, challenge is arisen from mechanics and field effects. Not from raw dps or lacking armor. The latter will only increase the length of the fight, not the difficulty.

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Biff.5312Biff.5312 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    sigh

    Another 'I need a challenge' thread. You can come up with plenty of challenges. Like roll an alt and walk to Orr as soon as you rez. Or take on what is meant to be a group boss (that nobody does because it has a high failure rate) singlehandedly.

    This is part of why so many things in the world now are so kitteningly ridiculous to beat.

    Those are fine ideas, but it gives a choice between absurdly easy and incredibly difficult. It would be nice if there were more challenges, both in world events and solo play, that are more appropriate to the average level of play. For instance, nobody has the least trouble with world bosses anymore. They should be more challenging, not to the point where most players are frustrated, but you should at least feel a sense of accomplishment when you defeat them. Maybe more achieves related to specific aspects of the fights would help, as those are my only goals during such fights.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Have you tried things like only using blue and green equipment? Or failing an instance if you can not do it in a minute? Or doing all the achieves? There are always ways to make things harder but it is more difficult to make things easier and since there are people on both sides you might have to settle with adding your own challenges.

    you're not the first to make this suggestion on this topic, the ninth, in fact, and everytime the same rebutal comes back:
    handicapping yourself does not make a fight more challenging, only more attrituous.
    By cutting your own dps, or making yourself more susceptible you're only increasing the length of the fight, not the difficulty.
    If I can dodge the bosses' power attack the few times he does it in his short life span, what makes you think I can't dodge it a few more times?
    Remember, challenging doesn't mean "boss does more dps" or "boss has more health"
    Challenging means more complex mechanics to deal with. Without the mechanics, every boss is just a reskin of the same.

    Lets give it an example, shall we?

    Say, Joko, he mostly just stands around, and every so once in a while he uses the 'floor is lava' tactic.
    Nothing much else is going on, as far as rangers and casters are concerned, this fight is already is basic as it gets.
    but as a source of challenge, would probably be, 'floor is lava' but you have to make your own flooring to stand on. If you dont, all is lava.
    Then you suddenly have an extra element in the fights to take care of.
    And what if Joko could drain his allies like he did in the end cinematic. Then you'd have to constantly maintain distance between Joko and his minions, by forms of CC.

    another example:
    Balthazar, has a lot going, MANY, MANY small attacks. Waves, bursts, that weird loopydoopy fire.
    But all in all, all of those attacks are weak. If you stay out of the way of the majority, you can outheal about 25% of the remaining damage with ease.
    Now, lets add a challenge. The area shrinks over time, the fire walls close in. Now you're forced to deal with the same amount of MANY, MANY small attacks in an ever decreasing safe area. And attacks like Sabetha's fire wall would work great here as well. Now in a raid that is an absolute death skill, for the story mode it could be 75% damage skill, downing players already severely hurt.
    But in that last case, remember that even in absolute death cases, you can instantly resurect and continue the fight anyway.

    last example:
    Tequatl. YES, tequatl, the boss overhauled in an effort to make him hard again. they can give him more health, makes his attacks more damaging, every playing could come naked. However, NONE OF THAT would add ANY difficulty or challenge. BECAUSE THERE IS A WAYPOINT NEXT TO THE BATTLEFIELD.
    You can infinitely die and run back. you can rebuild the lost turrets.
    A good way to renew the difficulty on tequatl would be:
    a) Make the turret defending more challenging, and increase cooldown on their [2] as they get damaged
    b) Make damage on the batteries persistant, so defending them becomes more of a task
    c) add more enemies designed for the sole purpose of interfering with the regular fighting tactics, and special enemies designed to damage the batteries.

    All in all, most bosses can be improved upon. In this current state, people are not being punished for ignoring mechanics. you can faceplant any boss, and with patience, that's a valid tactic. however, challenge is arisen from mechanics and field effects. Not from raw dps or lacking armor. The latter will only increase the length of the fight, not the difficulty.

    I think people trying to do tripple trouble and serpent ire would like to have a word with you about being able to faceplant any boss.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No more challenge, please. I want an easier game. PoF feels super hard and this gold farm in Istan feels like LW4 is even harder, I can't farm anything because it's too hard. Even standing in the corner in the GH event feels super hard for me. Please, we need easier content.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Have you tried things like only using blue and green equipment? Or failing an instance if you can not do it in a minute? Or doing all the achieves? There are always ways to make things harder but it is more difficult to make things easier and since there are people on both sides you might have to settle with adding your own challenges.

    you're not the first to make this suggestion on this topic, the ninth, in fact, and everytime the same rebutal comes back:
    handicapping yourself does not make a fight more challenging, only more attrituous.
    By cutting your own dps, or making yourself more susceptible you're only increasing the length of the fight, not the difficulty.
    If I can dodge the bosses' power attack the few times he does it in his short life span, what makes you think I can't dodge it a few more times?
    Remember, challenging doesn't mean "boss does more dps" or "boss has more health"
    Challenging means more complex mechanics to deal with. Without the mechanics, every boss is just a reskin of the same.

    Lets give it an example, shall we?

    Say, Joko, he mostly just stands around, and every so once in a while he uses the 'floor is lava' tactic.
    Nothing much else is going on, as far as rangers and casters are concerned, this fight is already is basic as it gets.
    but as a source of challenge, would probably be, 'floor is lava' but you have to make your own flooring to stand on. If you dont, all is lava.
    Then you suddenly have an extra element in the fights to take care of.
    And what if Joko could drain his allies like he did in the end cinematic. Then you'd have to constantly maintain distance between Joko and his minions, by forms of CC.

    another example:
    Balthazar, has a lot going, MANY, MANY small attacks. Waves, bursts, that weird loopydoopy fire.
    But all in all, all of those attacks are weak. If you stay out of the way of the majority, you can outheal about 25% of the remaining damage with ease.
    Now, lets add a challenge. The area shrinks over time, the fire walls close in. Now you're forced to deal with the same amount of MANY, MANY small attacks in an ever decreasing safe area. And attacks like Sabetha's fire wall would work great here as well. Now in a raid that is an absolute death skill, for the story mode it could be 75% damage skill, downing players already severely hurt.
    But in that last case, remember that even in absolute death cases, you can instantly resurect and continue the fight anyway.

    last example:
    Tequatl. YES, tequatl, the boss overhauled in an effort to make him hard again. they can give him more health, makes his attacks more damaging, every playing could come naked. However, NONE OF THAT would add ANY difficulty or challenge. BECAUSE THERE IS A WAYPOINT NEXT TO THE BATTLEFIELD.
    You can infinitely die and run back. you can rebuild the lost turrets.
    A good way to renew the difficulty on tequatl would be:
    a) Make the turret defending more challenging, and increase cooldown on their [2] as they get damaged
    b) Make damage on the batteries persistant, so defending them becomes more of a task
    c) add more enemies designed for the sole purpose of interfering with the regular fighting tactics, and special enemies designed to damage the batteries.

    All in all, most bosses can be improved upon. In this current state, people are not being punished for ignoring mechanics. you can faceplant any boss, and with patience, that's a valid tactic. however, challenge is arisen from mechanics and field effects. Not from raw dps or lacking armor. The latter will only increase the length of the fight, not the difficulty.

    I think people trying to do tripple trouble and serpent ire would like to have a word with you about being able to faceplant any boss.

    Serpent Ire is only difficult because of the health pools. You're not fighitng the boss, you're fighting the clock.
    And I'll agree that Triple Trouble is a good (albeit maybe one of the last ones left) challenge in the PvE section

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Biff.5312 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    sigh

    Another 'I need a challenge' thread. You can come up with plenty of challenges. Like roll an alt and walk to Orr as soon as you rez. Or take on what is meant to be a group boss (that nobody does because it has a high failure rate) singlehandedly.

    This is part of why so many things in the world now are so kitteningly ridiculous to beat.

    Those are fine ideas, but it gives a choice between absurdly easy and incredibly difficult. It would be nice if there were more challenges, both in world events and solo play, that are more appropriate to the average level of play. For instance, nobody has the least trouble with world bosses anymore. They should be more challenging, not to the point where most players are frustrated, but you should at least feel a sense of accomplishment when you defeat them. Maybe more achieves related to specific aspects of the fights would help, as those are my only goals during such fights.

    agreed, I remember when the game just came out, we did Fire elemental with 10-15 people (if we were lucky) and it was always finger crosses if we were gonna make it.
    Now the boss dies before it's spawning animation is finished.

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Have you tried things like only using blue and green equipment? Or failing an instance if you can not do it in a minute? Or doing all the achieves? There are always ways to make things harder but it is more difficult to make things easier and since there are people on both sides you might have to settle with adding your own challenges.

    you're not the first to make this suggestion on this topic, the ninth, in fact, and everytime the same rebutal comes back:
    handicapping yourself does not make a fight more challenging, only more attrituous.
    By cutting your own dps, or making yourself more susceptible you're only increasing the length of the fight, not the difficulty.
    If I can dodge the bosses' power attack the few times he does it in his short life span, what makes you think I can't dodge it a few more times?
    Remember, challenging doesn't mean "boss does more dps" or "boss has more health"
    Challenging means more complex mechanics to deal with. Without the mechanics, every boss is just a reskin of the same.

    Lets give it an example, shall we?

    Say, Joko, he mostly just stands around, and every so once in a while he uses the 'floor is lava' tactic.
    Nothing much else is going on, as far as rangers and casters are concerned, this fight is already is basic as it gets.
    but as a source of challenge, would probably be, 'floor is lava' but you have to make your own flooring to stand on. If you dont, all is lava.
    Then you suddenly have an extra element in the fights to take care of.
    And what if Joko could drain his allies like he did in the end cinematic. Then you'd have to constantly maintain distance between Joko and his minions, by forms of CC.

    another example:
    Balthazar, has a lot going, MANY, MANY small attacks. Waves, bursts, that weird loopydoopy fire.
    But all in all, all of those attacks are weak. If you stay out of the way of the majority, you can outheal about 25% of the remaining damage with ease.
    Now, lets add a challenge. The area shrinks over time, the fire walls close in. Now you're forced to deal with the same amount of MANY, MANY small attacks in an ever decreasing safe area. And attacks like Sabetha's fire wall would work great here as well. Now in a raid that is an absolute death skill, for the story mode it could be 75% damage skill, downing players already severely hurt.
    But in that last case, remember that even in absolute death cases, you can instantly resurect and continue the fight anyway.

    last example:
    Tequatl. YES, tequatl, the boss overhauled in an effort to make him hard again. they can give him more health, makes his attacks more damaging, every playing could come naked. However, NONE OF THAT would add ANY difficulty or challenge. BECAUSE THERE IS A WAYPOINT NEXT TO THE BATTLEFIELD.
    You can infinitely die and run back. you can rebuild the lost turrets.
    A good way to renew the difficulty on tequatl would be:
    a) Make the turret defending more challenging, and increase cooldown on their [2] as they get damaged
    b) Make damage on the batteries persistant, so defending them becomes more of a task
    c) add more enemies designed for the sole purpose of interfering with the regular fighting tactics, and special enemies designed to damage the batteries.

    All in all, most bosses can be improved upon. In this current state, people are not being punished for ignoring mechanics. you can faceplant any boss, and with patience, that's a valid tactic. however, challenge is arisen from mechanics and field effects. Not from raw dps or lacking armor. The latter will only increase the length of the fight, not the difficulty.

    I think people trying to do tripple trouble and serpent ire would like to have a word with you about being able to faceplant any boss.

    In EU I constantly see advertising of when the community something-or-other is going to do the next triple trouble run. I would imagine that most people who want to do it would try to get into that organised group. I think they even do it daily. Serpents' Ire, though, I think is an issue of not enough players? I don't know, I've never really tried it, but Vabbi always seems pretty barren of players, so I'm just speculating.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Frenzify.6832 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Have you tried things like only using blue and green equipment? Or failing an instance if you can not do it in a minute? Or doing all the achieves? There are always ways to make things harder but it is more difficult to make things easier and since there are people on both sides you might have to settle with adding your own challenges.

    you're not the first to make this suggestion on this topic, the ninth, in fact, and everytime the same rebutal comes back:
    handicapping yourself does not make a fight more challenging, only more attrituous.
    By cutting your own dps, or making yourself more susceptible you're only increasing the length of the fight, not the difficulty.
    If I can dodge the bosses' power attack the few times he does it in his short life span, what makes you think I can't dodge it a few more times?
    Remember, challenging doesn't mean "boss does more dps" or "boss has more health"
    Challenging means more complex mechanics to deal with. Without the mechanics, every boss is just a reskin of the same.

    Lets give it an example, shall we?

    Say, Joko, he mostly just stands around, and every so once in a while he uses the 'floor is lava' tactic.
    Nothing much else is going on, as far as rangers and casters are concerned, this fight is already is basic as it gets.
    but as a source of challenge, would probably be, 'floor is lava' but you have to make your own flooring to stand on. If you dont, all is lava.
    Then you suddenly have an extra element in the fights to take care of.
    And what if Joko could drain his allies like he did in the end cinematic. Then you'd have to constantly maintain distance between Joko and his minions, by forms of CC.

    another example:
    Balthazar, has a lot going, MANY, MANY small attacks. Waves, bursts, that weird loopydoopy fire.
    But all in all, all of those attacks are weak. If you stay out of the way of the majority, you can outheal about 25% of the remaining damage with ease.
    Now, lets add a challenge. The area shrinks over time, the fire walls close in. Now you're forced to deal with the same amount of MANY, MANY small attacks in an ever decreasing safe area. And attacks like Sabetha's fire wall would work great here as well. Now in a raid that is an absolute death skill, for the story mode it could be 75% damage skill, downing players already severely hurt.
    But in that last case, remember that even in absolute death cases, you can instantly resurect and continue the fight anyway.

    last example:
    Tequatl. YES, tequatl, the boss overhauled in an effort to make him hard again. they can give him more health, makes his attacks more damaging, every playing could come naked. However, NONE OF THAT would add ANY difficulty or challenge. BECAUSE THERE IS A WAYPOINT NEXT TO THE BATTLEFIELD.
    You can infinitely die and run back. you can rebuild the lost turrets.
    A good way to renew the difficulty on tequatl would be:
    a) Make the turret defending more challenging, and increase cooldown on their [2] as they get damaged
    b) Make damage on the batteries persistant, so defending them becomes more of a task
    c) add more enemies designed for the sole purpose of interfering with the regular fighting tactics, and special enemies designed to damage the batteries.

    All in all, most bosses can be improved upon. In this current state, people are not being punished for ignoring mechanics. you can faceplant any boss, and with patience, that's a valid tactic. however, challenge is arisen from mechanics and field effects. Not from raw dps or lacking armor. The latter will only increase the length of the fight, not the difficulty.

    I think people trying to do tripple trouble and serpent ire would like to have a word with you about being able to faceplant any boss.

    In EU I constantly see advertising of when the community something-or-other is going to do the next triple trouble run. I would imagine that most people who want to do it would try to get into that organised group. I think they even do it daily. Serpents' Ire, though, I think is an issue of not enough players? I don't know, I've never really tried it, but Vabbi always seems pretty barren of players, so I'm just speculating.

    yea 1 map do it 3 times a day if your out of luck getting into that 1 map your not getting your kill that day.

  • @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Biff.5312 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    sigh

    Another 'I need a challenge' thread. You can come up with plenty of challenges. Like roll an alt and walk to Orr as soon as you rez. Or take on what is meant to be a group boss (that nobody does because it has a high failure rate) singlehandedly.

    This is part of why so many things in the world now are so kitteningly ridiculous to beat.

    Those are fine ideas, but it gives a choice between absurdly easy and incredibly difficult. It would be nice if there were more challenges, both in world events and solo play, that are more appropriate to the average level of play. For instance, nobody has the least trouble with world bosses anymore. They should be more challenging, not to the point where most players are frustrated, but you should at least feel a sense of accomplishment when you defeat them. Maybe more achieves related to specific aspects of the fights would help, as those are my only goals during such fights.

    agreed, I remember when the game just came out, we did Fire elemental with 10-15 people (if we were lucky) and it was always finger crosses if we were gonna make it.
    Now the boss dies before it's spawning animation is finished.

    The usual cycle is: ANet introduces something that is somewhat challenging; some groups/players fail; some of those players complain; the content is either nerfed, or not; eventually, players figure it out and success becomes routine. Then, there's power creep. Fire Elemental has succumbed to all three -- nerfs, players got better, and power creep.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:
    Perhaps harder/more interesting mechanics coupled with the ability to res rush if you cannot handle the mechanics is the compromise that allowed ANet to make those mechanics for the players who wanted more of a challenge, while allowing the players who are going to struggle with those fights an option to finish the content. It's likely a much easier-to-implement solution than creating different modes.

    Check this out:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19421/suggestion-stop-making-story-bosses-hard-ls4-spoilers/p1
    allowing the players to clear the content through rez rushing isn't really a good option, even for those players that can't handle the difficulty.

    Is it not? I'm not saying I like res rushing, but some players are going to complain about everything. Just like some people are complaining about res rushing. I'd like a better solution, myself. But what is that solution? I'm guessing ANet has the dual goal of offering more interesting story fights while allowing for broad accessibility. I can see no other reason for the changes to story boss fights (from Personal Story through today) coupled with the res rush "feature." If they're going to drop res rushing, what accommodation will take its place, and would that be better -- or worse?

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • @Game of Bones.8975 said:
    Play with a cat walking on your keyboard.

    You definitely improved my evening :)

  • Harper.4173Harper.4173 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree with the OP in this thread. The Story instances are a joke. You go in - you're guaranteed to get out and get out a winner.
    Gone are the days of GW1 where if you had the wrong build or wrong approach you couldn't complete content. That game forced you to adapt, to improvise, to try something new or at least try the same thing you always did but better.
    You needed to improve, rethink. In GW2 you don't need to do that. The game wins itself for you.

    It's probably a staple of modern gaming at this point. Everyone has to be a winner, everyone has to make it, everyone has to be capable of finishing. I guess "new age" gamers aren't the same as the old age ones. No patience, no desire to improve and struggle. Otherwise game designers wouldn't be making gameplay experiences that basically win themselves - but still - this is pretty sad.

  • Harper.4173Harper.4173 Member ✭✭✭

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    Go play raids if you want challenge.

    I already am, but I got into this game for the story.
    I played GW1 and GW2 because it has an amazing world, with amazing villains. And if you played GW1 you will know what I
    mean when I say how dumbed down GW2 has become.

    GW story was (initially, anyway) a group game. GW2 story is not. GW2 story is aimed at (roughly) the midpoint in player skill. Anyone who is on the low side of that divide will struggle, but has the option to turn story into group content. Anyone above the (hypothetical) midpoint will find it too easy. One thing is certain, if a player is capable of doing well in raids, then story is going to be too easy because it's not aimed at you.

    As with dungeons, players can opt to add challenge themselves in GW2 story. A manual boss fight reset (player chooses to start the fight over) would be one way to do that. Now, if only the game supported you in doing so by saving progress so you could bypass the trash mobs and dialogue that comes before the boss fight.

    Going back to GW, power creep and Heroes went a long way towards removing the challenge from GW story instances. That's why we had hard mode. Why can't we have a hard mode in GW2? I blame the decision to make GW2 an MMO. MMO's have increasingly turned to a broader market than players who want a challenge seem able to provide. Likewise, making the game an MMO meant that hard mode was no longer an option, so harder PvE content is limited to raids and top tier fractals.

    I get the frustration, I'm just not sure there is going to be anything ANet can do about it because of design decisions that were made 6-10 years ago.

    I agree with you. And the decision to make it an MMO was easy - even bad players pay. So everyone has to be given a good chance to play and give up their money.
    They made the game easier, so it appeals to more people, so they can get revenue from more people.
    What I'd want to see is difficulty tiers for story missions with different rewards. Why couldn't this be possible? I mean - we do have story instances. Give us hard mode for those?

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Harper.4173 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    Go play raids if you want challenge.

    I already am, but I got into this game for the story.
    I played GW1 and GW2 because it has an amazing world, with amazing villains. And if you played GW1 you will know what I
    mean when I say how dumbed down GW2 has become.

    GW story was (initially, anyway) a group game. GW2 story is not. GW2 story is aimed at (roughly) the midpoint in player skill. Anyone who is on the low side of that divide will struggle, but has the option to turn story into group content. Anyone above the (hypothetical) midpoint will find it too easy. One thing is certain, if a player is capable of doing well in raids, then story is going to be too easy because it's not aimed at you.

    As with dungeons, players can opt to add challenge themselves in GW2 story. A manual boss fight reset (player chooses to start the fight over) would be one way to do that. Now, if only the game supported you in doing so by saving progress so you could bypass the trash mobs and dialogue that comes before the boss fight.

    Going back to GW, power creep and Heroes went a long way towards removing the challenge from GW story instances. That's why we had hard mode. Why can't we have a hard mode in GW2? I blame the decision to make GW2 an MMO. MMO's have increasingly turned to a broader market than players who want a challenge seem able to provide. Likewise, making the game an MMO meant that hard mode was no longer an option, so harder PvE content is limited to raids and top tier fractals.

    I get the frustration, I'm just not sure there is going to be anything ANet can do about it because of design decisions that were made 6-10 years ago.

    I agree with you. And the decision to make it an MMO was easy - even bad players pay. So everyone has to be given a good chance to play and give up their money.
    They made the game easier, so it appeals to more people, so they can get revenue from more people.
    What I'd want to see is difficulty tiers for story missions with different rewards. Why couldn't this be possible? I mean - we do have story instances. Give us hard mode for those?

    I'd be fine with this, they already have a system in place for it in the form of challenge motes and there is already precedent for it with how the last chapter of heart of thorns has a challenge mode.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Funny for me.. I like challenge but not too challenging that it creates stress and frustration or tension between game and other players .. generally I find current game is good with raids fractal.. story content etc..coming in slow pase.
    I personally would like to see the game cater for wider community.. so we have more population and more friendly ppl to play with.. I find the old style living story that comes frequently is good. It was probably the period when gw2 was most populated..It feels that way anyway. The game slowed down a bit but it never stop developing.. and contents are free once you have the core and expansions. I don't think any other mmorpg is as competitive. But then I don't play other mmo 😂

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How fun, just yesterday I read a topic named "Stop making story bosses hard!".
    Now I feel sad for anet...they can't make everybody happy since these are two completely opposite opinions....

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2018

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Id be interested in another layer to the challenge. I want more rewards that are skillgated or current expensive rewards that have skillgate alternatives. Eg. Mystic tribute or 77 clovers for x number of LI or boss kp.

    I like thd idea for 77 clovers for xx Li.. I stopped playing raids for few months .. was taking a break from it after I got all ap done.... w5 dhuum cm was a pain.. I don't wish to see another future cm like that.. had fun with all other cms
    If they make a good exchange of li to expensive material for leg weapon crafting it will make vet raider come back to do raids clear.. I wish they alter the way raid is being rewarded so the community doesn't feel the pressure or drive to do FC weekly.. I tried to do w5 & double reward wing once a week now if I can .. this way I can enjoy the game more.

    • Puglife

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2018

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    Well they can use machine learning to create bots which behave like human players, immagine going in a room full of mesmers and they all fight like their top ranked human counterparts. Or going to queensdale and all the bandits start behaving like your average thief in WvW, that's the experience PvE is currently missing.

    Then the bots would complain about a lack of challenge

    Fantastic, and I want this!


    To respond to the actual thread:

    • I want more challenging content
    • I also want some more difficult content as well (separate)
    • Story missions are probably not the right place for that...
    • I don't want to be forced to do group (5-10man) content to get difficulty/challenge
    • Honestly the only challenging/difficult content we have in this game is PVP/WVW because we fight other players, not something ANet made ;)

    I've suggested before, that several maps all over the game could benefit from small additions of more challenging encounters (that can be entirely skippable or zergable for those that dislike them). Adding small patrols of 4-6 npc's like bandits, centaurs, svanir "Veterans" using the ai's from the test dummies in PVP map would be fun to fight against as small group. And if you don't want the challenge just wait for them to walk past and get poi/vista behind them, or gather up 10+ players and zerg them.


    @Scud.5067 said:
    Difficulty Select:

    I'm Too Young To Die - Mobs have 25% less health
    Hurt Me Plenty - Normal mode
    Ultra Violence - Mobs have 25% more health and do 20% more damage
    Nightmare - Mobs have 50% more health, do 25% more damage and each instance has its own time limit.
    Ultra Nightmare - As Nightmare, but if you die, it resets the story to the beginning of the chain.

    Love the DooM references, but my oldschool DooM OCD demands me to correct you!

    • I'm too young to die
    • Hey, not too rough
    • Hurt me plenty
    • Ultra-Violence
    • Nightmare!

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." - J. Michael Straczynski
    "GW2 is a MSOFGG: Mass Singleplayer Online Fashion Grinding Game" -me

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:
    They should just make some aspect of the game very difficult that relies solely on solo player skills, and lock some really good exclusive rewards behind it. That way, everyone is happy. If its too hard for some people, then i just say quote what everyone on the forums says to people who want any aspect of the game changed at all - "perhaps this game/game mode isn't for you."

    That doesn't make everyone happy. That locks people out of rewards that they might want because of skill. That's exactly what this game ISN'T about.

    The game isnt about skill? Lol that's what it should be about if it isnt.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2018

    Sure it's about skill ... that still doesn't mean everyone is happy if special things are locked behind hard content. The idea that everyone is happy because there is a hard content with a special reward is ridiculous.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2018

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    How fun, just yesterday I read a topic named "Stop making story bosses hard!".
    Now I feel sad for anet...they can't make everybody happy since these are two completely opposite opinions....

    Have at least 3 difficulty modes (easy (current difficulty), normal and hardcore)

    As long as Anets mantra is one difficulty for everyone they cannot win indeed.

  • CeNedro.7560CeNedro.7560 Member ✭✭✭

    I think there are tons of challenges in game. Though there is no achievement/reward for them, so ppl most likely don't care. Actually, I expected precursor crafting to use the endless ideas players had to challenge themselves. Well, maybe we see it with the next legendary jewellry. I think it would be great fun to give ppl more reasons to try those challenges- they don't need to be ridiculous difficult. Even small ones like: do JP/travel through map without getting hit by a single foe or enviromental effect; solo AC up to Kohler and defeat him; manage to get unseen through CM; ...

  • Agent Noun.7350Agent Noun.7350 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2018

    What about making more achievements like the Migraine achievement from Heart of Thorns? Special hard-mode versions of the big story boss missions tuned for five players that give some kind of fancy reward and/or title if you do them.

  • @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    How fun, just yesterday I read a topic named "Stop making story bosses hard!".
    Now I feel sad for anet...they can't make everybody happy since these are two completely opposite opinions....

    Have at least 3 difficulty modes (easy (current difficulty), normal and hardcore)

    As long as Anets mantra is one difficulty for everyone they cannot win indeed.

    The last two Living World updates arrived "late" according to many posters on the forums. That was with one difficulty mode for story.

    Also, as there are more calls (by my reckoning, anyway) for easier than for harder, why would the current level of "difficulty" be the easy mode?

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    How fun, just yesterday I read a topic named "Stop making story bosses hard!".
    Now I feel sad for anet...they can't make everybody happy since these are two completely opposite opinions....

    Have at least 3 difficulty modes (easy (current difficulty), normal and hardcore)

    As long as Anets mantra is one difficulty for everyone they cannot win indeed.

    The last two Living World updates arrived "late" according to many posters on the forums. That was with one difficulty mode for story.

    Also, as there are more calls (by my reckoning, anyway) for easier than for harder, why would the current level of "difficulty" be the easy mode?

    Source of your statistics?
    Coz I can give you source about more people prefer harder content.
    Let me know!

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2018

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    How fun, just yesterday I read a topic named "Stop making story bosses hard!".
    Now I feel sad for anet...they can't make everybody happy since these are two completely opposite opinions....

    Have at least 3 difficulty modes (easy (current difficulty), normal and hardcore)

    As long as Anets mantra is one difficulty for everyone they cannot win indeed.

    The last two Living World updates arrived "late" according to many posters on the forums. That was with one difficulty mode for story.

    Also, as there are more calls (by my reckoning, anyway) for easier than for harder, why would the current level of "difficulty" be the easy mode?

    Since it is impossible to fail them they are baby mode at best. Normal mode would be if you die the instance would have to be restarted (+ some other tweaks to mob difficulty). Hardcore mode would be if you or an important NPC dies you have to restart (+some additional mob difficulty tweaks).

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    How fun, just yesterday I read a topic named "Stop making story bosses hard!".
    Now I feel sad for anet...they can't make everybody happy since these are two completely opposite opinions....

    Have at least 3 difficulty modes (easy (current difficulty), normal and hardcore)

    As long as Anets mantra is one difficulty for everyone they cannot win indeed.

    but with difficulty changes..people also want "suitable" rewards.....
    They dont just want more difficulty..they want a reward that others can't get to make it "worth it".

  • I tell you what to do. Go fight things without trinkets, food, and without your armor.

    You will have quite a challenge.

    Yes, I did that. I was wearing an outfit and forgot I was reworking things...I just grabbed the character and off I went.

    I was wondering why things were not dying like they used to :)

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    How fun, just yesterday I read a topic named "Stop making story bosses hard!".
    Now I feel sad for anet...they can't make everybody happy since these are two completely opposite opinions....

    Have at least 3 difficulty modes (easy (current difficulty), normal and hardcore)

    As long as Anets mantra is one difficulty for everyone they cannot win indeed.

    but with difficulty changes..people also want "suitable" rewards.....
    They dont just want more difficulty..they want a reward that others can't get to make it "worth it".

    I am guessing some random achievements, titles, minis etc would be easy enough to make, probably a small fraction of the work to actually make the difficulty modes

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    How fun, just yesterday I read a topic named "Stop making story bosses hard!".
    Now I feel sad for anet...they can't make everybody happy since these are two completely opposite opinions....

    Have at least 3 difficulty modes (easy (current difficulty), normal and hardcore)

    As long as Anets mantra is one difficulty for everyone they cannot win indeed.

    The last two Living World updates arrived "late" according to many posters on the forums. That was with one difficulty mode for story.

    Also, as there are more calls (by my reckoning, anyway) for easier than for harder, why would the current level of "difficulty" be the easy mode?

    Source of your statistics?
    Coz I can give you source about more people prefer harder content.
    Let me know!

    Simply count the number of responses(unique per thread) Then also go into every forum that is labeled "Nerf XXXX Story boss", "Nerf XXXX Fractal", "Nerf XXXX Raid Encounter" and count those unique responses as well(Im not saying you do it obviously, but when it comes to other kind of threads like dueling thats what i do.), while the forums are a small segment of the game obviously, you can get a decent feel for what a larger portion would represent, and ill say this, the number of people wanting nerfs will have far more unique responses than those asking for harder content.

    On Topic However: I still say this game is just in the middle, Many many people struggle with content that is considered "easy" by some and more and more people arent finishing content, which personally i see as an issue.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Jumpin Lumpix.6108Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2018

    The entire game should be hard, that way we could all get better. group content (ie relying on other team members to be good) isn't what id consider hard content since 90% of that is reliant on RNG of you getting into a competent group - yawn.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    challenge <> difficulty

    Something can be challenging without being extremely difficult. For instance, challenging to the mind rather than your reflexes in a fight.

    I'd like more trap puzzles and anything that requires mystery-solving. <3

  • @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:
    The entire game should be hard, that way we could all get better. group content (ie relying on other team members to be good) isn't what id consider hard content since 90% of that is reliant on RNG of you getting into a competent group - yawn.

    Anet has to make money. Making the entire game difficult would drive away customers. Why do you think there have been so many nerfs over the years?

  • Jumpin Lumpix.6108Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2018

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

    @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:
    The entire game should be hard, that way we could all get better. group content (ie relying on other team members to be good) isn't what id consider hard content since 90% of that is reliant on RNG of you getting into a competent group - yawn.

    Anet has to make money. Making the entire game difficult would drive away customers. Why do you think there have been so many nerfs over the years?

    maybe, for me personally whats driven me away is that there is no individual high level skill content. I can make more money flipping the TP then i ever could playing the game, and with that you can buy runs for group content. Pvp and wvw are like a slot machine, depending on who your team mates are, so that leaves pretty much nothing else.

  • @Frenzify.6832 said:
    I'm very much reminded of the Eater of Souls in PoF, and how people wouldn't think to just switch up their builds, or had no concept of the break bar

    iirc, you can't change your build or equipment for the Eater of Souls fight without starting the whole instance over again.

    @joneirikb.7506 said:
    I've suggested before, that several maps all over the game could benefit from small additions of more challenging encounters (that can be entirely skippable or zergable for those that dislike them). Adding small patrols of 4-6 npc's like bandits, centaurs, svanir "Veterans" using the ai's from the test dummies in PVP map would be fun to fight against as small group. And if you don't want the challenge just wait for them to walk past and get poi/vista behind them, or gather up 10+ players and zerg them.

    We have that, actually: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Modus_Sceleris

  • @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    How fun, just yesterday I read a topic named "Stop making story bosses hard!".
    Now I feel sad for anet...they can't make everybody happy since these are two completely opposite opinions....

    Have at least 3 difficulty modes (easy (current difficulty), normal and hardcore)

    As long as Anets mantra is one difficulty for everyone they cannot win indeed.

    The last two Living World updates arrived "late" according to many posters on the forums. That was with one difficulty mode for story.

    Also, as there are more calls (by my reckoning, anyway) for easier than for harder, why would the current level of "difficulty" be the easy mode?

    Source of your statistics?
    Coz I can give you source about more people prefer harder content.
    Let me know!

    Do you know what, "By my reckoning" means?

    If you yourself prefer and play harder content, what are the odds you hang with people who think as you do?

    All I did was look at the various threads about story content. There have been more threads about it being too hard than there have been about it being too easy. In threads complaining it is too hard, those who oppose the OP usually say they like it how it is. My conclusion is that while there are people who want challenge playing story, they are not doing it as their primary source of harder PvE content. No statistics, just an observation.

    Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people who play fractals and raids have a burning desire for story to be as hard (solo) as the group content is for groups. Or, maybe hardcore players might like it if story were harder, but they don't care enough to make a case about it. If you asked your friends who prefer harder content, would they want harder story, or more frequent fractals and raids -- assuming they had to choose one or the other?

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    How fun, just yesterday I read a topic named "Stop making story bosses hard!".
    Now I feel sad for anet...they can't make everybody happy since these are two completely opposite opinions....

    Have at least 3 difficulty modes (easy (current difficulty), normal and hardcore)

    As long as Anets mantra is one difficulty for everyone they cannot win indeed.

    The last two Living World updates arrived "late" according to many posters on the forums. That was with one difficulty mode for story.

    Also, as there are more calls (by my reckoning, anyway) for easier than for harder, why would the current level of "difficulty" be the easy mode?

    Since it is impossible to fail them they are baby mode at best. Normal mode would be if you die the instance would have to be restarted (+ some other tweaks to mob difficulty). Hardcore mode would be if you or an important NPC dies you have to restart (+some additional mob difficulty tweaks).

    What about the people who ask for nerfs to the current "difficulty?" The only reason I could see to add modes would be to have the content serve more people. Catering to one end of the spectrum and not the other ignores the fact that people at both ends are not enjoying the current approach.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • titje.2745titje.2745 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    Go play raids if you want challenge.

    I already am, but I got into this game for the story.
    I played GW1 and GW2 because it has an amazing world, with amazing villains. And if you played GW1 you will know what I
    mean when I say how dumbed down GW2 has become.

    At this point it has nothing to do with 'wanting challenge' anymore. But the most basic respect we're supposed to have for our villains.
    Instead, our characters are just gods who can even taunt the actual gods at this point.

    stop with playing your face roll ranger and take a class that’s not easy. so you get a challenge.
    i hate challenge outside raids or fractals. when i want challenge (never) i can go to them. i remember ls2 with mesmer it was a hell. luckily i had some repair things in my bags. if not then i never made it.

    new challenge for you. make a char. lvl it to 80. without dying. gear up and do story. if you die. delete char and do all over again. so you have only 1 life. to hard?? don’t whine for challenge then.

    story’s are already too long and hard enough to me. i can’t rush them. i did first or second part of ls4 p3 or something for beetle. i died as mesmer at the part south west of crystal desert. i mean sw of amnoon at the ship. very frustrating as melee class.

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @joneirikb.7506 said:
    I've suggested before, that several maps all over the game could benefit from small additions of more challenging encounters (that can be entirely skippable or zergable for those that dislike them). Adding small patrols of 4-6 npc's like bandits, centaurs, svanir "Veterans" using the ai's from the test dummies in PVP map would be fun to fight against as small group. And if you don't want the challenge just wait for them to walk past and get poi/vista behind them, or gather up 10+ players and zerg them.

    We have that, actually: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Modus_Sceleris

    Wow, I've never seen those before! Would love to hunt them down, but they seem to be completely random :(

    Also minor point, another reason I like the pvp test dummies are that they use player skills, I really wish more enemies did this, so we could learn about fighting against the other classes more in pve, it creates a very different dynamic in fights when you know they have the same build options you have, and will actually be nerfed/buffed with you :)

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." - J. Michael Straczynski
    "GW2 is a MSOFGG: Mass Singleplayer Online Fashion Grinding Game" -me

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So.. you're telling me you won over Balthazar second encounter?.. hat's off to you my friend ^^

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @rng.1024 said:
    So.. you're telling me you won over Balthazar second encounter?.. hat's off to you my friend ^^

    Is there a way to lose in that fight?

  • @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    @Frenzify.6832 said:
    I'm very much reminded of the Eater of Souls in PoF, and how people wouldn't think to just switch up their builds, or had no concept of the break bar

    iirc, you can't change your build or equipment for the Eater of Souls fight without starting the whole instance over again.

    I'm almost certain you can, but I may be mistaken. I'm sure I remember being able to go into the hero panel and change things. I thought it was only the inventory you couldn't access.

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