finally trying Mirage

I think the biggest cuts to Mirage may be past for the moment so I am trying the build.

At the moment, I'm running axe/pistol and sword/torch. It feels extremely awkward. So two questions; Is there a staff Mirage build? and can anyone point me to a good guide for a condi mirage axe build?

I've run PU staff and scepter torch for years now and melee Mesmering is uncomfortable.

Well that was really bad. Sadly, PU isn't working either.

I haven't left PvP in tears in a while.. not sure why anet is bent of forcing classes to be melee.

You're not forced into full melee, but in the context of fighting other players melee is beneficial due to ability to burst in close range with full shatters, cleave and stick to an opponent. It's more effective to dive into melee and burst than pure ranged attrition (or even ranged burst, due to the nature of shatters and clones).

I'm sure double ranged with GS/Staff could still be playable with mirage, though not optimal. Same with Staff/Scepter. It's just axe and sword are both really strong when it comes to either condi application or mobility/utility, while both having scaling defensive options through on demand evade - whereas neither GS nor staff have this, and scepter only has it after single target block (which with the amount of unblockables flying around isn't as reliable as hitting sword 2 or axe 3).

PU can still be good, though the game has shifted away from that when taking into account reveals (ie sic 'em) and also thanks to mirage's mobility as well as detarget options such as IA. Also Evasive Mirror is quite popular with mirage - and this is the ultimate antithesis to PU, it totally breaks the functionality.

But I'm sure you could play a solid Chaos/Illusions/Mirage, Scepter/Torch + Staff condi mirage and do well. More than enough clone generation as you can trait both staff and scepter (and torch tbh, or go bountiful disillusionment with shatter storm for the boons), and can choose whether to go hybrid or pure condi with it, up to you. In any case, once you find a build you like with mirage and get comfortable with it you won't want to play anything else! :)

@Ithilwen.1529 said:Well that was really bad. Sadly, PU isn't working either.

I haven't left PvP in tears in a while.. not sure why anet is bent of forcing classes to be melee.

staff is really strong in pvp.

@"Ithilwen.1529"

Might enjoy my new build I just posted:

Will also post a text guide in short in my thread I started here on the forum if you are insterested.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/54400/osicat-builds-thread#latest

/Osicat

@Osicat.4139 said:@"Ithilwen.1529"

Might enjoy my new build I just posted:

Will also post a text guide in short in my thread I started here on the forum if you are insterested.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/54400/osicat-builds-thread#latest

/Osicat

Thank you and I'd be very interested in a text guide.

Staff/Staff is a strong option in open world, lower tier fractals and dungeons in pve, don't know about pvp.

@Aslakh.3072 said:Staff/Staff is a strong option in open world, lower tier fractals and dungeons in pve, don't know about pvp.

It's really not. Staff offers pretty awful offense if you're in a group. It's fine for open world soloing, but don't take it into party encounters.

@Pyroatheist.9031Umm no, it is good up until you have a team organised enough to run meta comps that buff each other while having a dedicated support. You don't always have that in lower tier instances so in those situations its quite strong for the exact same reason it is good in open world, and that is that it does good damage unsuported but becomes much weaker with support available as it self stacks 25 might and perma fury and is barely helped by quickness and alacrity.

@Aslakh.3072 said:@Pyroatheist.9031Umm no, it is good up until you have a team organised enough to run meta comps that buff each other while having a dedicated support. You don't always have that in lower tier instances so in those situations its quite strong for the exact same reason it is good in open world, and that is that it does good damage unsuported but becomes much weaker with support available as it self stacks 25 might and perma fury and is barely helped by quickness and alacrity.

The reason it's awful is because of how the bounce mechanics work. When you're solo, each staff autoattack will hit the enemy target twice. However, the bounces prioritize friendly targets. That means that if you have even 1 friendly nearby, it literally cuts your possible dps in half.

Staff enjoyed about 24 hours of usefulness due to a bug that cause the ambush attack to multi-hit on large hitboxes, but that was it.

Staff was good with the pre HoT bunker mesmer metas, in a damage or burst meta imo isn't a good option.

Staff in a real scenario doesnt get much of a damage loss from friendly bouncing because the ambush attack provides a large percentage of your damage when used with infinite horizon, I would never try to dps with staff on core mesmer for example.EDIT: I can stack ~ 25 Bleed ~ 25 Torment and ~6/7 Burn with it even with plenty of allies around

I'm finding the ambush attack generally misses. I am also finding that guardians block scepter 3

Ranged attacks are easier to see and block/dodge or move out of the way of in pvp game types especially obvious/slow ones like scepter 3 and staff ambush so that can be a problem.

I'm getting beaten flat by just about everything. I do better on vanilla. Mirage is even harder to play.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:I'm getting beaten flat by just about everything. I do better on vanilla. Mirage is even harder to play.

Why don't you record some of your gameplay so we can see what you're doing wrong?

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:I'm getting beaten flat by just about everything. I do better on vanilla. Mirage is even harder to play.

Thank you for the interest in helping.

No I won't record gameplay. The last time I did that I got mocked for months and asked to commit RL suicide rather than play on someone's team in an unranked match.

I don't understand how to work the build generally. I'm dying quickly because defense is awkward with Axe.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:I'm getting beaten flat by just about everything. I do better on vanilla. Mirage is even harder to play.

Well to be blunt, there's extremely little anyone can do to help you when the only thing we have to reflect on is "nothing I do works".

Mirage is a strong class. It's regarded as one of the easier classes to be effective with, albeit one of the harder classes to master. The only thing we can say beyond a shadow of a doubt is that the problem is neither with the class, nor game balance, nor game mechanics.

Without concrete things to work with, that's about all anyone can say.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:I'm getting beaten flat by just about everything. I do better on vanilla. Mirage is even harder to play.

Despite the implied criticism, I made no claim that there's an issue with the class or balance.

As you may recall, I asked in the OP for a written guide, ( or video guide.) Mirage may be "regarded" as easy... but I find it awkward in the extreme and am trying to find out why.

I've been trying to "l2p" for years with very little success and it's frustrating.

Just keep working at it - maybe it may take some time to get muscle memory used to the dodge, but it will be better than going back to core.

Perhaps start off with basics of mirage.

First getting used to new dodge mechanic and axe's range (especially AA which visual field may deceive you). Then work your way through clone generations and evade frame on skill 3. Try it with different off-hands, with torch being most defensive or pistol being more aggressive. You can start off with staff on other weapon set and no one would criticize you for playing safe in the beginning.

If your main issue is fighting at melee range and hitting opponents, try use few utilities that assisting in getting close like illusionary ambush (3/4s cast time) or jaunt (instant cast). Slot elusive mind for surviving against CC/condi, especially in current meta where melee classes have abundant access to (or slot Infinite Horizon since you CAN dodge while CCed in this spec :P). Try keep a finger on F3/F4 for panic/critical defense.

Everyone starts off feeling awkward when the spec released, so you're not alone in terms of area of improvement.

As was mentioned, you can also use scepter instead of axe. You'll lose a bit of pressure and cleave, but gain better damage at range and the block for defense. Both work, the axe is more aggressive and requires you to actively avoid attacks while the scepter allows you to play more reactively instead.

Plus, scepter 3 is pretty busted atm, so that helps.

What gear are you using? If you are going condi, try full dire or trailblazers. survivability is great, and damage is high.

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:I think the biggest cuts to Mirage may be past for the moment so I am trying the build.

At the moment, I'm running axe/pistol and sword/torch. It feels extremely awkward. So two questions; Is there a staff Mirage build? and can anyone point me to a good guide for a condi mirage axe build?

I've run PU staff and scepter torch for years now and melee Mesmering is uncomfortable.

https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/mesmer

This is the build to run for Mirage. If you want, you can run Sword+Torch/Staff with just a few changes to traits (Desert Distortion instead of Axe Trait. Desperate Decoy Instead of Pistol trait). It's fine. But staff is a lot more attrisive of a weapon and so it struggles in a meta as explosively lethal as this.

Axe+Torch/Sword+Pistol is better as Axe just hits like a crazy nuke. It's funny. Mirage basically doesn't have any traits that impact damage aside from Infinite Horizon like a lot of other specializations. All the damage to make it a viable DPS spec is just front loaded entirely onto the axe.

Mirage feels a little finicky as the dodge takes some getting used to.

I'd be happy to do some sparing with you if you can catch me while I'm online.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:I think the biggest cuts to Mirage may be past for the moment so I am trying the build.

At the moment, I'm running axe/pistol and sword/torch. It feels

extremely

awkward. So two questions; Is there a staff Mirage build? and

can anyone point me to a good guide for a condi mirage axe build?

I've run PU staff and scepter torch for years now and melee Mesmering is uncomfortable.

Thank you. I'll take a look at it when I'm more awake. Sparring would be great.